Computer randomly crashes during gaming

Cravez

Hi guys

Just looking for a little bit of insight something. Recently got a new computer, good specs that are better than my old computer.

Now, sometimes and randomly during a game, the game crashes (not responding) and I usually have to restart the computer because ending task doesn't work and shutting down just idles so usually have to force shut-down.

The game(s) I play that this happens with are games that my old computer handled fine, even with the same settings (e.g Arma 2, Skyrim etc)

The new computer has the same type of liquid cooling as the old computer too.

Everything in the new computer is much better than the old one, except for the PSU. The PSU in the new computer is 750watts. The PSU in the old one was 950watts.

The Graphics Card Temperature sometimes reaches 90 degrees on these games but usually averages around 60-80, iv heard the nvidia cards can handle up to 120 degrees? The wattage on the PSU always stays relatively low (unless I am not checking correctly but the TempCore check on the PSU usually is low). I have maximum fans that my case can use.

I can't put my finger on why the computer keeps doing this mid game, everything is the same, if not better than I had previously (perhaps only the PSU being the difference) so I would like some more insight or advice into it.

I checked the hardware and it all seems to be installed correctly, but might give it another check if needed. Also my computer is not overclocked. To note this is random and not constant, I can play these games for periods without crashing, but it happens more often than it should.

My current specs:
- CASE: CoolerMaster Silencio 551 Mid-Tower Silent Gaming Case Black featured front USB 3, Internal sound damping
- CPU: Intel(R) Core™ i5-3570K Quad Core 3.40 GHz 6MB Cache LGA1155 + HD Graphics
- Cooling: Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling system w/ 120mm Radiator (For Ultra Slient Operation -- SHARKOON Eagle SE Ultra Slient Modular Fan, 500-1200rpm
- MEMORY: 16GB (2x8GB) PC12800 DDR3/1600mhz Dual Channel Memory (Kingston HyperX Blu w/Heat Spreader)
- MOTHERBOARD: MSI Z77A-G45 Intel Z77 Chipset
- OS: Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
- POWERSUPPLY: Corsair 750 Watts CX750M Gaming Modular Power Supply
- SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
- VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card (Gigabyte Superclocked)


Cheers.

BloodBath

Those cards should not be getting anywhere near those temps. I'm guessing it's the card. How is your case airflow? Is there any dust inside the card, how long have you had it. You shouldn't really be letting current gen cards go over 75-80c especially if it's overclocked. Stability at high temps with overclocks will always be an issue. Either dial down your clocks or improve your cooling.

Cravez

The computer is only 2 weeks old, no dust inside and is clean.

The card isn't overclocked so It's getting the temps as vanilla. So I don't think I can dial down the clocking. Any ideas on improving the cooling? To note I installed windows on a fresh hard drive so would I perhaps have to overclock or change settings Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling system?

I was reading online that 70-80 degrees was fine for a graphics card?

BloodBath

Except you said you are pushing 90c at times possibly higher when it crashes. That's way too high. It say's it's a gigabyte superclocked card so it must be pre overclocked. How many case fans do you have. I suggest adding more. You want at least 2 intakes and 2 exhausts ideally.

Cravez

Can you dial down the pre-clocked cards?

I have the max amount of fans in the case I can use and cannot add any more. I would have to check if they are intake or exhaust (can't at the moment) but I think it should be as you described.

BloodBath

Well there is no way you should be getting those kind of temps then.

Can you link to a card the same as the one you have? You said it's a gigabyte superclocked but I think only evga uses that term for it's overclocked cards. Gigabyte call their's OC's.

That standard evga cooler is pretty crap which might explain the temps. They still shouldn't be that high though imo.

You could also try it with different sticks of memory. Try it with 1 stick at a time to check if it might be a faulty memory module.

uncle_sam_ie

My MSI GeForce GTX 670 OC gets to 78c. But, this is normal for the card. 90c for any card is bad though.

Cravez

I'll have to check the card when I'm home, the only description I have at the moment is very generic.

I'v heard MSI Afterburner can work well on increasing fans peeds when GPU's reach high temps. I had it installed on the old computer but never used it, the old computer had manual adjustments on the fan speeds.

jimmycrackcorm

Michael Cravez wrote: »

Can you dial down the pre-clocked cards?

I have the max amount of fans in the case I can use and cannot add any more. I would have to check if they are intake or exhaust (can't at the moment) but I think it should be as you described.

Did you add them yourself and if so - are they all pointed in the correct direction?

BloodBath

Yes you can make custom fan profiles with it and adjust clock speeds and voltage. You might be able to undervolt it a bit and dial up the fan profile a bit to get temps down.

Cravez

btw it doesn't constantly reach 90c when I play the games. It averages as I said about 60-80. I'v only ever seen it reach 90 about once or twice.

Cravez

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Did you add them yourself and if so - are they all pointed in the correct direction?

Nope the computer was pre-installed. I can't say for sure if they are in correct direction (the same crowd that did the old computer which I had no problems with). I'm still a bit n00bish with these things

dyer

70 degrees at full load sounds reasonable to me.. you might push higher depending on the environment (central heating on etc) .. you could try increasing your fan speed via nvidias control panel and see if that helps. the front fans should be configured as intakes and the rear as exhaust.

have you tried stress testing your rig or running diagnostics on your ram modules?

grab a copy of superpi and let it run on all cores.. also wouldn't hurt to get memtest86 and checking your ram. i'd go with checking the ram first.

BloodBath

The side the sticker/label is on is the direction the air is going.

Tails142

The nvidia gtx 560m card in my laptop reports temps of 90+ when gaming and i have used it no prob for over a year so i wouldn't immediately say temps are your problem.

Heat can cause the problems you are having though so is there space around the cards inside the case, can you move cables away? Is there anything close by the exhaust area of the case have you got the case under a desk or close to a wall where the heat is getting trapped? Is the ram getting cooled by a case fan, is the north bridge or other motherboard fans working right and pointing in the right directions?

Are you using the latest video drivers?

Cravez

Thanks for the advice so far, ill check things out when I'm back home later and update.

Cravez

Tails142 wrote: »

The nvidia gtx 560m card in my laptop reports temps of 90+ when gaming and i have used it no prob for over a year so i wouldn't immediately say temps are your problem.

Heat can cause the problems you are having though so is there space around the cards inside the case, can you move cables away? Is there anything close by the exhaust area of the case have you got the case under a desk or close to a wall where the heat is getting trapped? Is the ram getting cooled by a case fan, is the north bridge or other motherboard fans working right and pointing in the right directions?

Are you using the latest video drivers?

The cable management in the case looked fine. Although I will have another look later. The Wireless card was close to the GPU off the top of my head. The computer is under a desk but away from the wall. I can check the others later.

I have updated all drivers for my computer.

dyer

seeing as it's a new build, check if there's a new bios update available for the mobo while you're at it.

BloodBath

The nvidia gtx 560m card in my laptop reports temps of 90+ when gaming and i have used it no prob for over a year so i wouldn't immediately say temps are your problem.

The 500 series was notoriously hot. His card is overclocked although not highly overclocked. I know from experience that stability becomes a big issue with heat that would normally be ok the higher you clock the card. If he's pushing into the 90's this will become a problem with even small factory overclocks.

Cravez

dyer wrote: »

seeing as it's a new build, check if there's a new bios update available for the mobo while you're at it.

BIOS is already updated.

dyer wrote: »

The 500 series was notoriously hot. His card is overclocked although not highly overclocked. I know from experience that stability becomes a big issue with heat that would normally be ok the higher you clock the card. If he's pushing into the 90's this will become a problem with even small factory overclocks.

If this does become an overclocking issue, can I dial down the card even though it may have been pre-clocked?

danger_mouse_tm

Any chance you could test with one stick of someone elses ram? It solved an ongoing issue for me. We discovered that we had to change out the ram completely on an older MSI board to stop it crashing.

Cravez

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

Any chance you could test with one stick of someone elses ram? It solved an ongoing issue for me. We discovered that we had to change out the ram completely on an older MSI board to stop it crashing.

If every option is exhausted I will try this.

Overheal

What is your CPU Temp?

I have Crossfire 5770s that sit at 40 deg and a CPU that sits at 19. Both are air-cooled. Your issue sounds like cooling, frankly.

You should ensure your case is a Positive Pressure Airflow environment. For one, you should always have more fans blowing into the case than blowing out. If too may fans are blowing out, you're going to get dust issues later in really bad places (everywhere). If too many fans are blowing in, your heat has few ways to escape.

Snap some pics of your case and lets see what youve got.



You can see in this photo, theres a 200mm fan that shoves colder air down into the case, 1 exhaust case fan ~120mm, which is tandem with (wow old photo) a newer CPU cooler that pushes air parallel to that exhaust from the CPU. Then 2 GPUs handle their own air intake and exhaust, which they each get from 2 120mm case fans that sit in the front of the build. The PSU at the bottom of the case has its own 120mm fan that helps pull air down from the top 200mm fan, the front 120mm fans, and shoves all that hot PSU exhaust out of the build before it can contaminate the air flow at all. In all, thats the CPU fan, a 200mm intake, 2 120mm intakes, 2 GPU and 1 PSU dual-action fans (manage their own airflow basically), and 1 120mm exhaust fan.



Airflow is basically two big channels pushed front to back by the front case fans that each get used by the GPUs and PSU/Hard Drives, then the CPU gets its cooling from the 200mm top fan, its cooler, and the rear exhaust. I could probably increase the speed of the rear exhaust from low to medium and get even better numbers; right now the 200mm fan has a bit of pushback (paper will hover on top of it rather than cling on)

Reassess how you've configured your airflow and ask yourself if you've created any pockets of air that might be stagnant.

Cravez

I think my CPU temp is fine.

I'll get some photos up later. What i'll do is take a snap of the temps when running one of the games. I'll take a few snaps of the computer case as well

I'd say I just don't have any configuration on how to manage the cooling, I was able to manually adjust it on my old computer (always kept it at a medium) so it's probably what I need to do here also.

BloodBath

This is basically how you want your airflow depending on what case you're using.

yoyo

Check your task manager for a process called "iehighutil.exe", this is a bitcoin miner malware, which can get installed when installing game mods etc. from dodgy sources. This will cause your GPU to max out and possibly crash it causing such instability. It should be removed if you have it, kill the process and look for it in the C:\temp iirc. Had to remove a couple of these infections, av software generally doesn't pick it up!

Nick

Cravez

Ok guys got a few pics. When I checked my case, I have id say from the looks of it about 1 exhaust and a few input fans. I don't have a fan or exhaust on the roof of the comp (my old computer case did). I still couldn't really tell much about the fans

First one is of the temp of the CPU's and the GPU when playing Arma 2: http://postimg.org/image/xjbvl0dc1/full/

Here's the screenshot of the overall computer inside: http://postimg.org/image/3lbi60daj/

One of the CPU + Cooler Fan: http://postimg.org/image/9xvah9v2j/

The Graphics Card up close: http://postimg.org/image/ojy2dduu1/

@Bloodbath: This looks to be the graphics card in question

Shot of the front fans: http://postimg.org/image/6tld18is7/

Power Supply: http://postimg.org/image/a41b1nckj/

Front Fans infront of comp without tray: http://postimg.org/image/5gwrqfzg9/

Fan Under the PSU: http://postimg.org/image/9avicf2il/

Behind computer shot: http://postimg.org/image/hwytkf17l/

I know it's alot of pics but just wanted to try get as much as I could. Let me know if anything sticks out or needs more pics. I might try MSI Afterburner now.

Cravez

BloodBath wrote: »

Yes you can make custom fan profiles with it and adjust clock speeds and voltage. You might be able to undervolt it a bit and dial up the fan profile a bit to get temps down.

Any tutorials online for MSI Afteburner that you know of?

dyer

MEMORY: 16GB (2x8GB) PC12800 DDR3/1600mhz Dual Channel Memory (Kingston HyperX Blu w/Heat Spreader)

is the ram configured correctly in the bios?

when you're all booted up, you can use cpu-z to check the timings.. it will also show you the spd values at various voltages/clocks.

if all that's straight, next thing i'd do is remove a stick and see if you still get freezes. if you do, try the other stick.

the ram would be the easiest thing to rule out at the beginning.. and it's often the culprit with new builds. sometimes a stick of ram just wont sit pretty in one slot but will work fine in another.

Overheal

on newegg owners talk about the card idlingat 25-30 and peaking at 50-65 under load. One nutf*ck with 3 in Triple SLI has them peaking at 69.

In your case there looks to be an awful lot of obstruction that the 2 front case fans have to overcome. the case itself has its mounts set up to be natural airflow deterrents, and your hard disks I would separate out a little bit personally, or at least mount them to the bottom of the chassis to give you a lower center of gravity.

If you can install a fan on your side panel, I'd strongly recommend it. For now though try running it with the case open and/or the slot-covers off.

BloodBath

Looking at the case I think airflow is the problem. There is no bottom intake. The front intakes have to push through a vent and then through the hard drive cages. Do you leave the door closed while gaming? Is there side vents on the door frame so it can still take air in if it's closed?

There's then only 1 exhaust which is also acting as the cpu cooler.

I would suggest replacing that case at some stage or modifying it.

That model of graphics card has one of the best coolers. At stock speeds you really shouldn't be going over 60-65c. It's not 100% the cause of the crashing but it is an issue.

Alt tabbing out to check temps during gaming is not ideal as the core temp will drop straight away. You want something that will record your max temps while playing. I think afterburner does this as well.

The fan profile is easy to set up. It's as simple as clicking on the graphic and setting the curve the way you want it.

For example here is the way I have mine set in Trixxx which is similar to Afterburner but for ati cards only.



I only have 3 points set. It slowly ramps up until it get's to 70c then ramps more steeply up to 100% at 100c. It never goes above 70c though.

unkel

I'd move both hard disks to the bottom bracket and leave more space between them. That's a 5 minute job that might improve things just enough

BTW modern graphic cards can operate normally up to 120C. 90C should not be a problem at all, especially if it only rarely hits these temperatures.

Perhaps your problem is your graphics driver...

BloodBath

BTW modern graphic cards can operate normally up to 120C. 90C should not be a problem at all, especially if it only rarely hits these temperatures.

They really can't. I get similar crashing if I allow my card to go over 75c-80c but it's highly overclocked. His card is factory overclocked. Like he said it only does it during gaming. If it's hitting the 90's that could be enough to cause crashing with an overclocked card.

It's either that or a faulty memory module.

unkel

Accoring to Nvidia the maximum operating temperature is 97C

That's probably a safe limit, for warranty reasons etc.

Wikipedia (I know ) state that modern Nvidea cards work up to 120C

OP has seen 90C once or twice. Normally he is in the 60-80 range

This is well within range

I know some people are rather (very) safe than sorry

But to tell a gamer he should tune down his card (thus taking away from his gaming experience) is not the first advice that should be given imho

BloodBath

According to wikipedia. Really? Their stability is directly connected to their operating speed and temps. The higher the clock speeds the lower the temps need to be for stability.

That's why you see crazy high overclocks with liquid nitrogen cooling. That's why my card need's to be kept below 80c to be stable and I'd imagine that's why the op's card is crashing.

He hasn't recorded his temps properly. He's alt tabbing out to check them. I can bet they are hitting the mid 90's at times.

I told him he needs to improve his cooling and change his case. For testing purposes he could dial down his clocks and/or turn up the fan speed to see if it's stable to identify if it is the problem. You don't pay that kind of money for a card like that to have it operating in the 90's.

unkel

BloodBath wrote: »

He hasn't recorded his temps properly. He's alt tabbing out to check them. I can bet they are hitting the mid 90's at times.

You could be right there. Which means I was right too

Why don't you suggest a better method for the OP to check / record his temps?

BloodBath wrote: »

I told him he needs to improve his cooling and change his case. For testing purposes he could dial down his clocks

Not quite what you said though either, is it?

BloodBath wrote: »

Either dial down your clocks or improve your cooling.

BloodBath

Why are you nit picking my posts when you come in with the godly advice obtained from wikipedia that he would be fine running his card at 120c.?

Why don't you suggest a better method for the OP to check / record his temps?

Oh I thought I had already.

Alt tabbing out to check temps during gaming is not ideal as the core temp will drop straight away. You want something that will record your max temps while playing. I think afterburner does this as well.

unkel

BloodBath wrote: »

Oh I thought I had already.

Missed that, my apologies

BloodBath wrote: »

you come in with the godly advice obtained from wikipedia that he would be fine running his card at 120c.?

Where did I say that? I said that running his card at 60-80C during gaming with very occasionally hitting a 90C is perfectly fine

Telling the OP in your first post that he should not get near these temperatures and to dial it down:

BloodBath wrote: »

Those cards should not be getting anywhere near those temps.

BloodBath wrote: »

Either dial down your clocks or improve your cooling.

Is a bit like - I'll paraphrase your good self:

"You don't pay that kind of money for a card like that to have it operating like a budget card."

Overheal

I wouldnt say "fine" running at 120C and I wouldnt say "Fine" running at 90.

You wouldn't really say in an elevator with a max load of 4500kgs and 4200kg aboard and the thing starts creaking when this fat bloke wants to get on the life ya wouldnt say "ah come on in you scraggy lad"

Similarly if my PSU is Rated for 750W I really don't want to run it at 725W all the time. As the components age, these peak values diminish.

There are also some immutable lifetime rules with capacitors that mean that they will operate with a lifespan that is proportional to their operating temperature. Hot components? Short lifespan.

To cut a rant short, the idea here is to get those temps to within the actual "norm" and that appears to be around 60 degrees under load and 30 idle.

BloodBath

Which is why I followed up my first post with more questions and more info. Good god.

Telling the OP in your first post that he should not get near these temperatures and to dial it down:

Why wouldn't I. These are the solutions to his problem assuming the card overheating is causing the crashing.

I also said it could be the ram. It could be any number of things really but only testing will prove which.

Cravez

Hi guys, just to note, I didn't alt+tab during the game to take that earlier screenshot of the temps. I pressed Print Screen during the game and it automatically took the desktop screenshot even while I was in-game so I would definitely say the temps are accurate.

So gathering from what's been said, my options are most likely:
1) Check the RAM - Make sure it's installed correctly, try different slots?
2) Airflow - i) Increase Fan speeds? ii) Get more fans? iii) Get new case to potentially have more exhaust fans?

Can you mod a case to have an extra exhaust fan even though it potentially might not have been able to have one in the first place? Like can the case be worked on so that I could add another exhaust fan maybe on the top and/or a side panel window?

TerrorFirmer

Weird that with such a decent gpu cooler you're still hitting those temperatures. I wouldn't blame the front intakes either - yes they're obstructed, but over the years I've run machines with no front intakes occasionally and it wasn't a problem even with high end cards, naturally temps were increased but nothing to cause instability or anything close.

I also agree with Unkel, if you're averaging 60-80 and occasionally hitting 90 - whilst not ideal and equally strange for the card you actually have - it's not inherently dangerous. Those cards can operate up to 100c safely, I'd say you'd be looking at 110+ before it physically crashed or crapped out.

Yes you can easily add side fans, use a holesaw to make a hole if there are none, add some mesh and you're set. That said though, in your set up, 2 x intake and 1 large outtake, even if mildly obstructed, should not be causing the unusually high GPU temperatures. I think clearly there's something not quite right with your card. Taking off the cooler, applying new paste, and reseated probably wouldn't be the worst idea even if the crashing is attributable to the ram or another factor.

Cravez

Right, I did a bit more checking on airflow and the case I got with my new computer. I probably didn't check initially the cooling system on the new case and from what i'v read on the case I got, the case excels in performing quietly at the expense of cooling (which is not what I really need now).

My old case was a silent case also, but it had alot more fans in the case and I guess it did the best of both worlds as I never had any issues with it in terms of cooling.

The new computer case has only 2 areas for the air to come in and out (front and back). My old case had front, back and on top (plus below). I think i'll just have to invest in a new case and while doing so will check the ram when installing everything again.

Cravez

Just saw your post now. Might look into that either. So remove the cooling and apply the paste to the CPU?

TerrorFirmer

I think that's an overreaction to be honest! I had an even worse system in my old computer - one 80mm intake similarly blocked as yours is, and one 80mm outtake, and I didn't have any problems at all. The thing about cooling isn't that it's the line between functionality and non-functionality; more so it's peoples preferences as to how they want to run their hardware. In my current case I have way more fans and hardware is running much cooler, but you're talking 50-60c rather than say, 60-75 - nothing with the realms of functionality either way.

One other thing. How do you have your PSU installed? Looking at the picture, do you have the fan facing down into the case? What sort of surface is the case on?

Also, I meant the GPU, CPU temps are great. But again, your GPU temps aren't high enough to actually seriously state that overheating is your issue - given the evidence, it doesn't seem to be overheating.

Cravez

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

One other thing. How do you have your PSU installed? Looking at the picture, do you have the fan facing down into the case? What sort of surface is the case on?

PSU is located on the bottom (as normal?). The exhaust fan is located on the top corner of the case, basically at the top of the back of the case located on this shot: http://postimg.org/image/hwytkf17l/. It wouldn't be facing 'down' into the case but the CPU is beside the exhaust and then the GPU is further down.

The case is sitting on a wood floor, under a desk. Beside it (to the left of the front) is the frame of the side of the desk, the other side is free. I have move the computer out from the wall to give it more space.

TerrorFirmer

No I meant the PSU fan - is it facing up towards the top of your case, or face down into the bottom of your case? Because if its facing down, could be a problem if there's not enough clearance/airflow underneath.

Cravez

It's facing down as per these pics:
- http://postimg.org/image/a41b1nckj/
- http://postimg.org/image/9avicf2il/ (This is the fan at the bottom of the case, underneath the PSU

Cravez

Going to get in touch with the manufacturer. Been reading online the GTX 670's can be problematic at times with games (same as the ones I'm having trouble with). Alot of people have been RMA'ing their GTX 670's so ill just contact anyway and see if anything can be resolved on that front.

Cravez

Got a diagram from the current case of it's airflow chart. http://www.coolermaster.com/upload/product_feature/slh1.jpg

BloodBath

Also, I meant the GPU, CPU temps are great. But again, your GPU temps aren't high enough to actually seriously state that overheating is your issue - given the evidence, it doesn't seem to be overheating.

He hasn't monitored his temps properly yet and has still caught it over 90c a couple of times. It could be going higher. If you run something stressful and record the temps with afterburner you can check what you are peaking at. Taking screenshots is not going to show you your peak temps. Try running 3dmarks firestrike benchmark while recording your temps with afterburner.

Have you started doing any tests at all yet. It shouldn't take long to narrow down what it is.