Running first race - training plan completed too early - what next?

FutureGuy

Hi all,
Am doing the 6 mile (first ever race) in the Great Limerick run and I have found I have completed my training plan a month ahead of schedule. My goal was to run the race in under 1 hour.

My long run at the weekend is about 8km and I completed that in 46 mins on Friday evening (not great but great for me given my injuries over the last 2 years. I played soccer all my life until a scumbag put an end to it for the most part about 2 years ago). My 5km PB is 26.51. I do take a few breaks during the run of 20-30 seconds every few km.

So now I am not sure how to progress. I know I can finish the 6 mile no problem and I should be able to finish a 6 mile right now in under the hour. So where do I go from here? Clearly I'd like to get that time down, and I'd love to be in a position in 5 weeks time that I'm pushing the 50 minute completion time and not the 60 minute time. However, I'm caught in two minds as to what to do.

I know myself that I need to lose about a stone in weight. I was 86kg a month ago and I'm now 82.5kg. I'd love to get that down to about 76kg.

So my questions are
1) Should I just keep repeating the final week of my training run until the race (3 runs per week, 6.6 km, 5 km, 8km) or should I cut back to two nights a week and do 2 nights focusing on weight loss? If so should I focus on cardio or muscle building.

2) Should I continue running but focus on speed/endurance training. If so, are there any good websites which have such training plans?

3) I'm concerned that going on a calorie reduced diet would hamper my training. Unfounded?

4) Any other advice you could give me is appreciated.

menoscemo

If i were you i would just keep training progressively as you were before.

Keep adding a few miles to your run especially your Long Run. If you have already completed 6 miles in traning don't be afraid to stretch it out and go 'over distance'. If you add a mile a week to your long run you could get up to about 10 miles the week before the race then take it easy for the 6-7 days before it. Just make sure not to race your long run- keep it slow and steady.

Having gone 'over distance' a few times you'll build up endurance that will allow you to hold a faster speed in the race itself.

FutureGuy

sorry wrong forum....mods, can this be moved to the main athlethics forum please?

spurscormac

Sounds like you're doing fine, just keep ticking over & maybe extend the long run at the weekend.

Make sure you're not racing your training runs. You should be training mostly at a pace where you can still chat, especially the long run at the weekend - this should be an easy pace, its time on your feet not a fast run.

FutureGuy

spurscormac wrote: »

Sounds like you're doing fine, just keep ticking over & maybe extend the long run at the weekend.

Make sure you're not racing your training runs. You should be training mostly at a pace where you can still chat, especially the long run at the weekend - this should be an easy pace, its time on your feet not a fast run.

lol that's pretty much opposite of what I have been doing recetly

I'm trying to pace myself to have my 5k completed in about 26 minutes, then take it a little easier up to 8k, and then pick it up a bit.

So should I just be running for X minutes instead of running X km?

spurscormac

FutureGuy wrote: »

lol that's pretty much opposite of what I have been doing recetly

I'm trying to pace myself to have my 5k completed in about 26 minutes, then take it a little easier up to 8k, and then pick it up a bit.

So should I just be running for X minutes instead of running X km?

It's not necessarily that you should be running for time instead of distance. You can still run X km, just don't train at your expected race pace, slow it down.

You can use the McMillan Calculator to figure out what pace you should be training at.
Plug in a recent time (say your 26 minute 5k, as you haven't run a race yet), a goal time for your 10k, and calculate.
Click on the Training Paces link to show what you should be doing.
At your level, you should be doing your training at Easy Run pace, and your longer weekend at the Long Run pace.
Notice there is overlap here, that's fine, you can run a little toward the faster end of the Easy Run pace & the slower end of the Long Run pace. Tweak it to what feels ok.
You don't have to worry about the Steady State, Tempo or Speed paces for now. That will all come at a later stage with more experience.

Any questions, just post back here.

FutureGuy

spurscormac wrote: »

It's not necessarily that you should be running for time instead of distance. You can still run X km, just don't train at your expected race pace, slow it down.

You can use the McMillan Calculator to figure out what pace you should be training at.
Plug in a recent time (say your 26 minute 5k, as you haven't run a race yet), a goal time for your 10k, and calculate.
Click on the Training Paces link to show what you should be doing.
At your level, you should be doing your training at Easy Run pace, and your longer weekend at the Long Run pace.
Notice there is overlap here, that's fine, you can run a little toward the faster end of the Easy Run pace & the slower end of the Long Run pace. Tweak it to what feels ok.
You don't have to worry about the Steady State, Tempo or Speed paces for now. That will all come at a later stage with more experience.

Any questions, just post back here.

So I'm hoping to run my race at about 5.45 so here are my approximate times from that link...

Long Runs 6:22 - 7:09
Easy Runs 6:21 - 6:53

So I should be pacing my Easy runs at about 6:30 and my longer run at 6:50ish.

I know I am very new to this, but will that help me run faster on the day? I be afraid I'd get used to the slower times and gas myself on the day!:D

dazza21ie

FutureGuy wrote: »

So I'm hoping to run my race at about 5.45 so here are my approximate times from that link...

Long Runs 6:22 - 7:09
Easy Runs 6:21 - 6:53

So I should be pacing my Easy runs at about 6:30 and my longer run at 6:50ish.

I know I am very new to this, but will that help me run faster on the day? I be afraid I'd get used to the slower times and gas myself on the day!:D

Don't worry, when the gun goes off you will find it harder to slow down!

huskerdu

FutureGuy wrote: »

So I'm hoping to run my race at about 5.45 so here are my approximate times from that link...

Long Runs 6:22 - 7:09
Easy Runs 6:21 - 6:53

So I should be pacing my Easy runs at about 6:30 and my longer run at 6:50ish.

I know I am very new to this, but will that help me run faster on the day? I be afraid I'd get used to the slower times and gas myself on the day!:D

Yes, it will.

If you build up strength in your legs by doing lots of slower longer runs, you will have the stamina to sustain your race pace on the day.

dna_leri

FutureGuy wrote: »

My 5km PB is 26.51. I do take a few breaks during the run of 20-30 seconds every few km.

The longer, slower runs will help you not to need a break every few km, that's at least a minute saved. Work on being able to finish 5K without stopping, then build that up towards 10K.

FutureGuy

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's appreciated

So I have a run today. I'll be doing 6 km and will try to slow down my pace to about 6.20.

I'll be honest, that sounds so slow but will definately take everyone's advice on this.

huskerdu

FutureGuy wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's appreciated

So I have a run today. I'll be doing 6 km and will try to slow down my pace to about 6.20.

I'll be honest, that sounds so slow but will definately take everyone's advice on this.

You are capable of running 6km much faster so it will seem too slow, but the key is to run at this pace for longer runs in the next few weeks to build us your stamina. Good luck

FutureGuy

huskerdu wrote: »

You are capable of running 6km much faster so it will seem too slow, but the key is to run at this pace for longer runs in the next few weeks to build us your stamina. Good luck

Even beyond the actual race distance?

scheister

Hey everyone sorry for hijacking this. just reading the post with interest as im only really getting into running really this year. The s/t aim is the GLR (6mile) with the DCM in october the L/T aim
ATM im running 10km 3 times a week at 5min pace which wud be my peak pace. but from reading above this is not the way to go. What wud be a better way to do it?

huskerdu

scheister wrote: »

Hey everyone sorry for hijacking this. just reading the post with interest as im only really getting into running really this year. The s/t aim is the GLR (6mile) with the DCM in october the L/T aim
ATM im running 10km 3 times a week at 5min pace which wud be my peak pace. but from reading above this is not the way to go. What wud be a better way to do it?

Here is a novice marathon training plan that should help you prepare.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

menoscemo

FutureGuy wrote: »

Even beyond the actual race distance?

Of course.
Most serious runners training for 10ks would still do a Long Run once per week anywhere betweek 10-18 miles.
Basically the longer your long run the better. The idea on the day will be to run as fast as possibly, you should have already covered the distance.

FutureGuy

menoscemo wrote: »

Of course.
Most serious runners training for 10ks would still do a Long Run once per week anywhere betweek 10-18 miles.
Basically the longer your long run the better. The idea on the day will be to run as fast as possibly, you should have already covered the distance.

Mind blown. Every plan I looked at was the same...for a 10k, your longest run should be 8k about a week before the race.

Off home now, will run the 6.5 k at 6.20 Nice and easy.

menoscemo

FutureGuy wrote: »

Mind blown. Every plan I looked at was the same...for a 10k, your longest run should be 8k about a week before the race.

Off home now, will run the 6.5 k at 6.20 Nice and easy.

Mo Farrah runs 100+ miles a week.

Those plans you are talking about are Novice plans. If you can manage not to be a novice on the morning of the race then your result should be better.

FutureGuy

Hi all, ok so am back from my run. I tried my best to stay in and around 6:25 - 6:30/km and try my best not to stop over the distance.

Normally my first 2-3km is 5:30 before petering out, stopping to catch breath every km after 4 and a 1 min break after 5.

So after hitting 6km and close to home I felt really good. So I kept going...

Distance: 10.37km
Time: 1h07m24s
Total number of stops: 0

:-D

I finished the 6 mile in 1h02m which is 2 mins outside my initial goal of 1h and I had a ton in my tank at the end.

Never caught for breath and didn't even contemplate stopping even once.

Finished without a bother. The most enjoyable run ever. 2 km more than I have ever ran, 5km more than I have ever run without stopping and 20 mins more tha I have ever ran.

A little cramp behind the balls of my feet but its easing. Thanks for the advice!

spurscormac

Easy isn't it.

Well done - keep that up and you'll fly through your races.

FutureGuy

spurscormac wrote: »

Easy isn't it.

Well done - keep that up and you'll fly through your races.

Haha I'm feeling it more than usual this morning but nothing too bad

FutureGuy

Thanks for the advice all, 11 km yesterday including the race distance in 59:40

I only ran twice last week 10.3km and 11km instead of 3 x 5-8km. I'm wondering should I add a third run back into my week or just do some cross training/weights? If so, what CT do ye do that ye find beneficial?

hot to trot

FutureGuy wrote: »

So I'm hoping to run my race at about 5.45 so here are my approximate times from that link...

Long Runs 6:22 - 7:09
Easy Runs 6:21 - 6:53

So I should be pacing my Easy runs at about 6:30 and my longer run at 6:50ish.

I know I am very new to this, but will that help me run faster on the day? I be afraid I'd get used to the slower times and gas myself on the day!:D

Well done on super progress so far. Just had to comment on this. When you key in your statistics in to Mc MIllan - you run at the recommended paces for WHERE YOU ARE NOW AT.
As you get faster , this will change and you move up into new set of paces. You DONT input the desired or planned time that you hope to gain and use those paces for training. This is inviting injury as you are training harder than you are currently ready for.
There may only be a tad in the difference now but as you get stronger faster and have more endurance , there can be a bigger difference.
Just something to bear in mind .
Best of luck and keep up the good work.

pconn062

FutureGuy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice all, 11 km yesterday including the race distance in 59:40

I only ran twice last week 10.3km and 11km instead of 3 x 5-8km. I'm wondering should I add a third run back into my week or just do some cross training/weights? If so, what CT do ye do that ye find beneficial?

No add another run instead of cross training, it will be of more benefit, maybe two runs of 5-8k and then a longer run of 10-11k. Then over time if you are interested in improving you can add another day and stretch out your long run a little, you can repeat this in four weeks again if you want, add another day. Then soon you'll be like us lunatics, running 6-7 days a week!

FutureGuy

pconn062 wrote: »

No add another run instead of cross training, it will be of more benefit, maybe two runs of 5-8k and then a longer run of 10-11k. Then over time if you are interested in improving you can add another day and stretch out your long run a little, you can repeat this in four weeks again if you want, add another day. Then soon you'll be like us lunatics, running 6-7 days a week!

My knees are already disagreeing with you. Stongly!

I'm running 3 per week now and I think that will be the maximum I'll attempt. I ran 6km yesterday with alot of uphill stuff. Tough going and I'm feeling it today.

Will do another 6 km tomorrow and then an easy 13k Saturday at around 6.30min/km pace. Ran 12k last weekend and it took 1h 19 min. Stopping is such a weird sensation, kept feeling I was going to fall over my knees :P

The 6 mile is going to be a breeze now, and I'm already mentally preparing myself for a half marathon.

FutureGuy

hot to trot wrote: »

Well done on super progress so far. Just had to comment on this. When you key in your statistics in to Mc MIllan - you run at the recommended paces for WHERE YOU ARE NOW AT.
As you get faster , this will change and you move up into new set of paces. You DONT input the desired or planned time that you hope to gain and use those paces for training. This is inviting injury as you are training harder than you are currently ready for.
There may only be a tad in the difference now but as you get stronger faster and have more endurance , there can be a bigger difference.
Just something to bear in mind .
Best of luck and keep up the good work.

Thanks a million. I've eased back on my times overall and I am reaping the benefits in terms of how I'm feeling. I'm probably going to take the 10k easy enough up until around 7.0km (6.10min/km pace) . I usually have lots left in me at that stage. Will pick it up (relatively!) to 5'45 for the next 2 and go for the line as we hit the bridge in Limerick.

FutureGuy

Thanks to everyone for their help. Did a 13k last Saturday and have 2 small runs of about 6k in preparation for the race on Sunday

It's hirlarious that I now class 6kms as small runs...I'd have seen that as an impossibility 3 months ago.

dna_leri

Nice improvement already.
Good luck Sunday.
Make sure you come back and tell us how it went.

hot to trot

Best of luck and looking forward to following your progress into the future. You certainly have got the hang of this . ( and the bug:D)

Go eyeballs out for the last half mile if there is anything left in the tank

FutureGuy

hot to trot wrote: »

Best of luck and looking forward to following your progress into the future. You certainly have got the hang of this . ( and the bug:D)

Go eyeballs out for the last half mile if there is anything left in the tank

Yeah that's the plan.:P

All the endurance work is clearly paying off. My PB for the 5k was 27:43 which was followed by nearly dropping dead from exhaustion, partial heaving and shaking im my muscles. Yesterday I ran the same 5k in 27:12 and was able to complete the final km in 5:02 so I'm delighted with that. Finished the run and felt perfect.

One more run on Thursday morning and it's off to my first race Sunday!

FutureGuy

FutureGuy wrote: »

Thanks a million. I've eased back on my times overall and I am reaping the benefits in terms of how I'm feeling. I'm probably going to take the 10k easy enough up until around 7.0km (6.10min/km pace) . I usually have lots left in me at that stage. Will pick it up (relatively!) to 5'45 for the next 2 and go for the line as we hit the bridge in Limerick.

And I'm finished. I was hoping to get it done in the hour an it wouldve been great to get inside 57 minutes.

Finished in 52 min 40 seconds :-D

Thanks to everyone here for their advice. I'd be still out there otherwise!

Lemlin

FutureGuy wrote: »

And I'm finished. I was hoping to get it done in the hour an it wouldve been great to get inside 57 minutes.

Finished in 52 min 40 seconds :-D

Thanks to everyone here for their advice. I'd be still out there otherwise!

Well done lad. The thing now is to keep going. I know after I did my first race I found it very hard to stay motivated in the week or two after.

john mayo 10

FutureGuy wrote: »

And I'm finished. I was hoping to get it done in the hour an it wouldve been great to get inside 57 minutes.

Finished in 52 min 40 seconds :-D

Thanks to everyone here for their advice. I'd be still out there otherwise!

well done on your race. keep up ur training and ur times will decrease even more. Congrats.

hot to trot

Thrilled for you . I look forward to your new blog in the training logs section so we can spy on your future progess .

Murph_D

FutureGuy wrote: »

I played soccer all my life until a scumbag put an end to it for the most part about 2 years ago). My 5km PB is 26.51. I do take a few breaks during the run of 20-30 seconds every few km.

You lost me at "scumbag".

FutureGuy

murphd77 wrote: »

You lost me at "scumbag".

I was going to say it was a poor choice of words but when you deliberately go out to Injure someone, admit it right after injuring someone that you meant it and then rile someone up after the game about "enjoying my break", then yeah, that's a scumbag in my book.

I think I'll open a training log once I get back from the holidays.

FutureGuy

Hi all,
I have a number of questions racing in my head over the last few days and I want ed to get your advice. Mods, if resurrecting the thread is a problem, my apologies - I felt it was better than posting a new thread.

Quick update - still running 3-4 times per week. Training for half marathon and LSRs are up 11 miles on Sundays at around 1h 52min. Aiming for 2h15min but want to be closer to 2h00. Decided against a training log here as, in my weird mind, I'd be doing my runs for my readers and not for me.

1) While I am clearly running longer distances, I am not running faster at all. I have totally stagnated on my shorter runs. I haven't improved my 5km pace at all. Is it ok to be doing speedwork on my short runs (going much faster than my half marathom pace) and then doing my usual LSRs on the weekend. I don't want my training to be counterproductive (pulling in two directions). I think my long term running goal is to do a half in July, do a full before the end of the year and then focus on running 10km races next year to get my times right down.

2) I have put on a decent amount of muscle mass in my legs in recent months. One of my calves is about an inch bigger in circumfrence (one is 37cm and the other is 40cm). It's the right calf that larger (my favoured soccer foot) and I have a dodgy left ankle. Anything to be concerned about?

3) During my LSRs I started using sports drinks after around mile 6. However, should I just drink water so as my body doesn't get used to the extra boost while training - the idea being that when I take these drinks during the race, it'll give an extra benefit?

4) On the Hal Higdon website, they refer to pace workouts like "9 x 400 5-K pace". I really do not understand what they mean. I know you have to run 400m 9 times at your 5 km pace, but there is no context there. Should I take breaks between the 400m runs - if so should I stop running, should I jog at a slower pace and for how long. Can anyone explain please?

Thanks all!

hot to trot

While you are waiting for more comprehensive information ...here is a quickie bit of advice.

Increase your endurance or work hard on your performance times at shorter distances but not both at the same time.
So , stick with your longer runs at the weekend until you are 12-15 mile range at a comfortable pace. In this way your half marathon target is well within your distance scope. Drop back this LSR every 3/4 weeks to rest your legs.
Then on 1 of your shorter runs, you can work on your pace . As your endurance and running efficiency increases , your pace will also improve . Don't get bogged down in what your LSR pace is for now. You have plenty of time to sharpen that up closer to your race target when your legs are able to take it . To try to push the pace of your LSR is not a wise move at this stage.
IN a weekly schedule, a LSR, pace work, an easy run or two and perhaps a slightly faster steady run should be enough .

The aim of your lsr it to get used to fat burning and endurance so you should be able to manage with just water unless you have been fasting for a good few hours.

Flexibility in ankle is very important in preventing hip issues and achilles problems. Check out www.mobilitywod.com Kelley Starr is fantastic and there is super professional advice on improving your ankle and hip mobility for better performance.

For intervals, you can run slowly or walk for recovery.

There are some fab books that have comprehensive advice about all things running. You are definitely at the stage where you would benefit from knowing more. You should have an aim or focus for every run you do ,improve form , increase pace, endurance , even sheer relaxed pleasure as this will help you focus and give you confidence.

You are making fantastic progress. Keep it steady. There is nothing more soul destroying than having to stop for injury just when you are starting to really enjoy what you are at.

FutureGuy

FutureGuy wrote: »

2) I have put on a decent amount of muscle mass in my legs in recent months. One of my calves is about an inch bigger in circumfrence (one is 37cm and the other is 40cm). It's the right calf that larger (my favoured soccer foot) and I have a dodgy left ankle. Anything to be concerned about?

3) During my LSRs I started using sports drinks after around mile 6. However, should I just drink water so as my body doesn't get used to the extra boost while training - the idea being that when I take these drinks during the race, it'll give an extra benefit?

Haven't really read this thread and having completed the sum total of two marathons there are people out there with a lot more experience and are a lot faster then me. Indeed just getting back into mountain running now after being off all running since last September with an injury. But fwiw...

2). I have never measured my calves or thought about muscle mass in one leg or another. Maybe others will say everyone does it, but never heard of that practice and not something I would even think about really. Would have thought that maybe trying to emphasise one leg more to "equalise" calf measurement might be counterproductive if not wrong.

3). Never drank sports drinks at all save in the marathons and the 15-20 mile training runs. If I'm out for 10 miles or less I don't bother with liquid save on a hot day, and when I bring it I usually forget to take it. On the other hand, even for training runs I may have hydrated long long beforehand.