Accompanying driver technicality.

Mister Jingles

Was just reading the FAQ thread (what boredom does to yea) and noticed a part that said :

Someone who holds a full but restricted licence (e.g., for an automatic transmission) cannot act as an accompanying driver in an unrestricted (e.g., manual) vehicle.

Okay so as that is the case above, which is news to me actually, and tbh I don't agree with it.

It got me thinking though (the high horse jockeys might like this one) , the whole point of that the accompany driver thing is to give advice to those learning and to take over the wheel if a situation called for it, yeah ?

If it ever came to that how does this work with insurance ? What if the accompanying driver with a full manual licence is not insured to drive the learners car ? Why should a driver of an automatic with a full licence not be able to accompany a learner, even for the advice aspect of things.

I know somebody is going to say because the auto driver wouldn't have very good knowledge of driving a manual but to be fair, what if we are speaking in the context of a learner who has been driving for over 6 months or even a year and is very capable of working the clutch/gears.

Alanstrainor

The whole point of the accompanying driver is to give advice. Taking over is not part of it, as you said, insurance becomes a problem in such situations.

Mister Jingles

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The whole point of the accompanying driver is to give advice. Taking over is not part of it, as you said, insurance becomes a problem in such situations.

Exactly and that's my point, why should an automatic driver not be able to do so with a manual learner in the eyes of the law.

Feathers

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Exactly and that's my point, why should an automatic driver not be able to do so with a manual learner in the eyes of the law.

Because a provisional license assumes no competency, so the law isn't counting on someone with X months experiencing 'knowing the basics' & not needing assistance.

How would a driver of an automatic give sufficient advice quickly enough to a driver who cut out on a roundabout for instance, or having to do a hill-start in traffic?

To be honest, this is the silliest aspect of the whole learning to drive process. It's ludicrous to expect someone to have a person that can be on hand to sit in a passenger seat whenever the person wants to go driving, and in my experience, having someone 'giving advice' usually ends in an argument.

People who have been driving for years generally develop their own habits (be they good or bad) and will invariably press these upon the person they're accompanying. Twice I've had fully qualified and very experienced drivers in my passenger seat and twice I've been given 'advice' that goes completely against what my instructor told me (I now have a "shut up when I'm driving. If you don't like it: walk!" rule in my car with said people).

I know literally no one, not one person, that I could have on hand to sit in my passenger seat if I wanted to go for a drive spur of the moment. For me it's drive alone or don't drive at all. I'd imagine it's the same for the vast majority of people (and the Gardaí are well aware of the silliness of it, too. I've never heard of anyone being done for driving alone).


... That's all in my own personal opinion, of course!

Alanstrainor

Mister Jingles wrote: »

I know somebody is going to say because the auto driver wouldn't have very good knowledge of driving a manual but to be fair, what if we are speaking in the context of a learner who has been driving for over 6 months or even a year and is very capable of working the clutch/gears.

The law has to be applicable to all, there can't be special cases.

johnmcdnl

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Exactly and that's my point, why should an automatic driver not be able to do so with a manual learner in the eyes of the law.

Because an automatic driver doesn't know what the clutch is for or how to use it - well they might have an idea but not enough for them to pass a test themselves. How could they possibly be able to give good instructions to someone who I'd sitting in a car for the first time or someone who is inexperienced?

Sure they might be great at explaining the rules of the road and other things like that but they don't know enough about the mechanics of a manual themselves so it'd be highly unwise for them to try to advise someone else.

II can only imagine how someone with an automatic license only would go abut explaining to a first time driver how to do a hill start in a manual. Sure they might be an exception and actually be a great manual driver but just don't have to license for whatever reason but likewise they could have no notion whatsoever.

How can the law (or anyone) possibly justify having a situation like this where someone with no notion of how to operate a manual car be let advise a learner on how to operate a manual car?

You can say all you have want about the learner having a good grasp of how the gears work but in that case they'd be fit to pass the test surely. How can you differentiate a learner with a good grasp of gears and a learner who had no idea? I know when I started driving I knew how to drive and understood all the gears and had no problems picking it up as I'd been driving tractors from a young age. Others here no doubt had to be shown what ever pedal and control was. Unless you want a system of Learner stage 1, stage 2 etc etc how can you legally tell how good a driver is to justify letting an automatic driver accompany a learner driver.

ardmacha

It's ludicrous to expect someone to have a person that can be on hand to sit in a passenger seat whenever the person wants to go driving, and in my experience, having someone 'giving advice' usually ends in an argument.

It doesn't work like that, you go driving whenever the person is available.

You might as well say that it is ridiculous is have a French class on the Tuesday, as the person might not want to learn French on Tuesdays.

miss no stars

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, this is the silliest aspect of the whole learning to drive process. It's ludicrous to expect someone to have a person that can be on hand to sit in a passenger seat whenever the person wants to go driving, and in my experience, having someone 'giving advice' usually ends in an argument.

People who have been driving for years generally develop their own habits (be they good or bad) and will invariably press these upon the person they're accompanying. Twice I've had fully qualified and very experienced drivers in my passenger seat and twice I've been given 'advice' that goes completely against what my instructor told me (I now have a "shut up when I'm driving. If you don't like it: walk!" rule in my car with said people).

I know literally no one, not one person, that I could have on hand to sit in my passenger seat if I wanted to go for a drive spur of the moment. For me it's drive alone or don't drive at all. I'd imagine it's the same for the vast majority of people (and the Gardaí are well aware of the silliness of it, too. I've never heard of anyone being done for driving alone).


... That's all in my own personal opinion, of course!

Wow, I'm not surprised people won't drive with you if you're that rude to them! Shut up I'm driving? Would it not do to be polite? I haven't had a problem getting people to accompany me. If they say something that's in contradiction to what I've been told by an instructor, I just tell them that. A couple of times they've been then able to put context on what they said and then I realised that they and the instructor were both right, just in slightly different scenarios. I can't get over your arrogance. If you're that good go and take your test.

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

It doesn't work like that, you go driving whenever the person is available.

And if the person's never available?

miss no stars

miss no stars wrote: »

Wow, I'm not surprised people won't drive with you if you're that rude to them! Shut up I'm driving? Would it not do to be polite? I haven't had a problem getting people to accompany me. If they say something that's in contradiction to what I've been told by an instructor, I just tell them that. A couple of times they've been then able to put context on what they said and then I realised that they and the instructor were both right, just in slightly different scenarios. I can't get over your arrogance. If you're that good go and take your test.

Bit much to call me arrogant, no?

There are two people that, whenever in my car, go on at me non-stop with ludicrous things that I have been told opposite of and that I KNOW are not correct. Yet these same people go on at me over and over and make it incredibly frustrating to drive with them. So a firm "STFU" policy works wonders for me.

Anyone else I've had in my car has had no issues (from those who've never drove, learners and fully licensed drivers). The only person I ever have difficulty driving with is a driving instructor (though that's more down to me second-guessing myself and over-thinking everything when he's in the car with me).

Alanstrainor

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit much to call me arrogant, no?

There are two people that, whenever in my car, go on at me non-stop with ludicrous things that I have been told opposite of and that I KNOW are not correct. Yet these same people go on at me over and over and make it incredibly frustrating to drive with them. So a firm "STFU" policy works wonders for me.

Anyone else I've had in my car has had no issues (from those who've never drove, learners and fully licensed drivers). The only person I ever have difficulty driving with is a driving instructor (though that's more down to me second-guessing myself and over-thinking everything when he's in the car with me).

I find it laughable that someone taking time out to accompany you gets told to STFU, when they mention something that you repeatedly do wrong. That's precisely what they are there for. To offer guidance and instruction on anything and everything you may do wrong.

This in addition to what ever lessons you will be getting, and then the test itself. It's a learning process. Everything adding on to build up experience. Certain countries only allow drivers to driver when under instruction with an ADI equivalent beside them until they pass their test. Ireland is not unfair in it's application of Learner Driver laws.

Alanstrainor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

told to STFU, when they mention something that you repeatedly do wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

go on at me non-stop with ludicrous things that I have been told opposite of and that I KNOW are not correct

Yeah.

Alanstrainor

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah.

My bad.