Toll fine on the day that I sold my car

The Big Red Button

I recently sold a car, which had been off the road for nearly a year. The NCT was nine months out of date, and it was untaxed. However it was starting fine, and as far as I'm aware, no major mechanical problems.

In the ad, I said that I was selling it for parts, that there was no tax or NCT, and that whoever was buying it would probably need to arrange to get it towed from its current location.

Having said that, the person who bought it made it clear on the day that they were buying it for everyday use - not for parts. They took it for a test drive around a the private car park in which it was parked, handed over the money, and drove away with it. We both signed the log book, with the date of sale being that date, and I then posted it to Shannon.

Yesterday I received two letters in the post - fining the car for a journey made on the M50 (close to my house) on the date of sale. I only just received these, as they'd gone to my parents' house. I sold the car about a month ago. I rang the eToll number, explained the situation, I was put on hold and I guess they were able to verify on their side that I'd sold the car on that date, and the guy I was talking to said that it was absolutely fine and that I'd hear no more about it. Great.

But, I guess I'm just curious. If they go after the buyer for the fine, couldn't the buyer just claim that he'd collected the car later that day, and that it must have been me or another potential buyer driving at the time? (It wasn't - they were the only ones to view the car. And I hadn't been driving it in months.) But what happens then - who (if anyone) is liable to pay the fine?

Also, is it just me, or is it not absolutely crazy that he'd take the risk of not paying the fine, and thus possibly drawing attention to the fact that he was driving an un-NCTed untaxed car on a motorway with (presumably) no valid insurance?! (He wouldn't have known the reg number when he came to look at the car. I guess possibly he had some sort of open insurance, who knows. I was still insured on the car at the time - in fact, still am, as far as I know, until mid-April - if that makes a difference.)

Fred Swanson

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scamalert

Had similar thing happen to me,when the m50 new toll was introduced,had no idea when i passed one,as i am not a dub person,so id visit Dublin once a year or so,then weeks later get the letter to pay for the toll.Did that online no penalty or extra charge,then couple weeks later another letter threatening with court and my car pics driving over the toll :cool:,anyway took a call,took them 5 minutes to figure out that i payd and all was fine since.
Now you did call them and they confirmed it,so even if the guy decides not to pay or whatever,he will be the one to get fined.

ABajaninCork

If you've got the buyer's details, I'd be passing them over. Get your name off the insurance ASAP too. You no longer have the car, so no point in keeping the insurance.

The Big Red Button

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If you've got the buyer's details, I'd be passing them over.

I've got them - he didn't ask for them, though? I explained the situation, he put me on hold, then came back a few minutes later and said it was fine. I said, "OK so it's all sorted, I won't hear from you again about this?" And he said, "Yes, it's all fine." So I assume they were able to see that ownership was transferred on that date.

Gumbo

chatterpillar wrote: »

I've got them - he didn't ask for them, though? I explained the situation, he put me on hold, then came back a few minutes later and said it was fine. I said, "OK so it's all sorted, I won't hear from you again about this?" And he said, "Yes, it's all fine." So I assume they were able to see that ownership was transferred on that date.

This happens all the time. They give it a few days and check the Shannon system update and once they see the new owner details, they reissue the fine to them.

The Big Red Button

kceire wrote: »

This happens all the time. They give it a few days and check the Shannon system update and once they see the new owner details, they reissue the fine to them.

But what if he tells them that he didn't come to get the car until later on that day?

djimi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If you've got the buyer's details, I'd be passing them over. Get your name off the insurance ASAP too. You no longer have the car, so no point in keeping the insurance.

It's not even legal to hold an insurance policy on a car you don't own afaik. Policy should have been cancelled the day the car was sold.

ted1

Maybe there fake details and he has no intention of taxing, ncting or insuring the car so has no interest in paying

The Big Red Button

djimi wrote: »

It's not even legal to hold an insurance policy on a car you don't own afaik. Policy should have been cancelled the day the car was sold.

Well I've e-mailed them now to cancel it, effective from that date. Waste of money as I wasn't even driving it for the past year, but anyways!

Fred Swanson

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ted1

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Citation please?

Not sure of there is actual legislation. But you can not insure something where you will not incur an financial loss.

Fred Swanson

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eFlow: Reps

Hi Chatterpillar

When issuing out letters we always go by the date of sale on the National Vehicle Drivers file

So who ever is down as the owner at the time the journeys are made they are the ones that receive the letters and are liable for the trips.

I hope this was of help too you!

If you have any further queries don't hesitate to ask.

Kind Regards

Emma

Fey!

chatterpillar wrote: »

Also, is it just me, or is it not absolutely crazy that he'd take the risk of not paying the fine, and thus possibly drawing attention to the fact that he was driving an un-NCTed untaxed car on a motorway with (presumably) no valid insurance?! (He wouldn't have known the reg number when he came to look at the car. I guess possibly he had some sort of open insurance, who knows. I was still insured on the car at the time - in fact, still am, as far as I know, until mid-April - if that makes a difference.)

If the fines were coming to you at your parents house, then the new owner probably isn't/wasn't aware that there was a fine issued as he wouldn't have been getting any correspondance.

I'm curious as to whether or not he'd have the fine levied with penalties for being outside the payment time even though he hasn't been receiving the fines until now.

CramCycle

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Nothing illegal but AFAIK most policies ask you to cancel the policy or return the disk as the insurance is no longer valid, did the OP leave his disk in the car?

lost marbles

i sold a car and after asking the new buyer to make sure they payed the toll [which they did,nt ] ,i recieved a late payment notice which was sorted out when i rang eflow . write on the change of ownership form the time the car was sold in the presence of the new owner . ie[ sold this car at 12.30 on date ] .dont know if it makes a difference but .

The Big Red Button

eFlow: Reps wrote: »

Hi Chatterpillar

When issuing out letters we always go by the date of sale on the National Vehicle Drivers file

So who ever is down as the owner at the time the journeys are made they are the ones that receive the letters and are liable for the trips.

I hope this was of help too you!

If you have any further queries don't hesitate to ask.

Kind Regards

Emma

Thanks Emma.

What about in my case, where the date of sale is the same as the date of the fine?

The Big Red Button

ted1 wrote: »

Not sure of there is actual legislation. But you can not insure something where you will not incur an financial loss.

What 123.ie told me was that I could cancel the policy, but as my insurance expires this month anyways, I'd be due no refund (because their cancellation fee would cancel it out, yadda yadda yadda.) I was advised to keep the policy in place, as it means I'll be entitled to 4 years NCB rather than 3.

They have it on file that I sold the car at the start of March, and according to the guy I was talking to, it's not a problem that I'm still insured on it even though I no longer own it.

naughtysmurf

lost marbles wrote: »

write on the change of ownership form the time the car was sold in the presence of the new owner . ie[ sold this car at 12.30 on date ] .dont know if it makes a difference but .

I've done this also with the last couple of cars I sold after getting parking fines that were not mine from a previous car I sold, like you though I don't know if it makes any difference

Fred Swanson

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eFlow: Reps

chatterpillar wrote: »

Thanks Emma.

What about in my case, where the date of sale is the same as the date of the fine?

Hi Chatterpillar,

In your case, because the new owner had been registered as the owner of the vehicle for the same day of the trip, he is legally liable for the vehicle for that date and going forward in the future.

Therefore they are the party legally liable for that journey for that date, regardless of who drove the vehicle.

Hope this helps with your query.

Kind Regards,
Colm

djimi

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I've done this also with the last couple of cars I sold after getting parking fines that were not mine from a previous car I sold, like you though I don't know if it makes any difference

I doubt it would somehow; unless they have a mechanism to record the time of sale on their system (which I dont think they do) I doubt they even look at what you wrote tbh.