Parnell Square regeneration announced

Ole Rodrigo

Article in todays Irish Times:

Plans for the redevelopment of Dublin’s Parnell Square and the provision of a cultural quarter there including a new city library and cultural centre have been unveiled.
The proposed development has been termed possibly “the most important cultural development in Dublin for 100 years,” by City Architect Ali Grehan.
Consultation on the €60 million scheme is now invited by Dublin City Council, the Office of Public Works and Kennedy Wilson, a US real estate investment company, which has its main European office in Dublin.
Key to the plans are the relocation of the city library to a new development incorporated into Colaiste Mhuire and the upgrading of other notable Georgian buildings on the north side of the square to make what its advocates call an “intercultural district”.
Included in the plans are a civic plaza and a largely pedestrianised section of Parnell Square linking the library and existing Hugh Lane gallery and Writers’ Museum more closely with the Garden of Remembrance.
The plans were publicised in Dublin yesterday by Lord Mayor Naoise Ó Muirí along with City manager John Tierney and City Librarian Margaret Hayes. Joining them was Peter Collins from Kennedy Wilson, which is providing the € 2.5 million seed capital on a philanthropic basis.
The existing city library at the nearby Ilac centre, opened in 1986, is deemed to be used well beyond its capacity and is not of a stature to match the needs of Dublin or its role as a Unesco City of Literature.
The new library, a striking circular design, will act as a focal point for greater civic involvement in literature and the arts generally. It will incorporate an innovation and enterprise hub, a story house, music centre and a digital library.
The new-look Parnell Square will consolidate what planners term the city’s Civic Spine which will run eventually from Dublin Institute of Technology at Grangegorman on the north side, through the square and along O’Connell Street towards College Green, Christchurch and, eventually, to the Irish Museum of Modern Art at Kilmainham.
It is hoped that greater reaches of central Dublin will be regenerated by investment in this Civic Spine and that further improvements will be kick-started along its course.
Mr Collins confirmed Kennedy Wilson’s optimism for Ireland’s economic future. “We are firmly of the belief that the Irish economy will recover over the medium term and we believe that Dublin, as the capital city, will be the driver and the beneficiary of that recovery. To that end we have invested over €200 million in commercial and residential projects.”
He pointed to an historical parallel in that the Rotunda Hospital, also on Parnell Square, was initially funded by private donations while the Hugh Lane Gallery owed much to the private generosity of Sir Hugh Lane.
As city librarian, Ms Hayes said the new library would be predicated on the notion that it would act as a “cultural broker where other entities come in” such as theatres, innovation centres and other facilities.
“This will be an investment in the people,” she said.
Consultation is now open and the scheme’s design team hopes the redeveloped square will be opened by Christmas 2017

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http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/60m-cultural-development-of-parnell-square-to-kick-start-dublin-regeneration-1.1350161

Great news indeed

fly_agaric

ror_74 wrote: »

Article in todays Irish Times:



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/60m-cultural-development-of-parnell-square-to-kick-start-dublin-regeneration-1.1350161

Great news indeed

Or this http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/200m-facelift-for-historic-square-26001287.html

Oops that article is about the previous redevelopment of Parnell Square (2005) - sorry my bad!:pac:
I am in city centre regularly but did not notice it! [I lack the recessive that gives one Emperor-Vision].

hfallada

The surrounding areas are still horrific and a new library isnt going to solve that. The library should be moved to a more central location like the current central bank. I cant see how those house will be suitable for the library without gutting them to four walls even then it dont think it will be suitable.

There is barely any shops or coffee shops in the area and with Dublin city council policy of no toilets in its libraries ( I guess to stop heroin users shooting up and this area would have a lot of users so I can guess theyre will be no toilet in this new library either)

Ole Rodrigo

fly_agaric wrote: »

Or this http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/200m-facelift-for-historic-square-26001287.html

I am in city centre regularly but did not notice it! [I lack the recessive that gives one Emperor-Vision].

The 2005 one ? It was done along with the Hugh Lane Gallery refurb - the
viewing area of the Garden of Remembrance - but hey, better than nothing

Looks like the 2005 plan has been shoehorned into the current one - and at a price reduction of 200 to 60 million its easy to see why !

boombang

hfallada wrote: »

The surrounding areas are still horrific and a new library isnt going to solve that.

Completely agree. I may be guilty of pro-southside prejudice, but i think the Central Bank would be a much better place for a library.

Also, while it's fair to want to smarten up the North inner city, I wouldn't start with Parnell Square. There are plenty of other places that need help more and have more potential for success than this.

A better way to make the Northside more attractive would be to devote some resources to managing junkies in a better way for all involved: the public, guards and the junkies themselves. But politicians like building projects rather effective policy implementation.

Ole Rodrigo

^^

I think Parnell Square is an ideal place to start off a regeneration plan, it already has some established attractions to be built upon - once more people come to the area is will create its own renewal dynamic

As for the surrounding areas, Dominic Street is already being taken care of - what would you suggest instead ?

Passenger

Seems like a nice idea and should at least improve the cosmetic of the area.

Gumbo

boombang wrote: »

Completely agree. I may be guilty of pro-southside prejudice, but i think the Central Bank would be a much better place for a library.

Also, while it's fair to want to smarten up the North inner city, I wouldn't start with Parnell Square. There are plenty of other places that need help more and have more potential for success than this.

A better way to make the Northside more attractive would be to devote some resources to managing junkies in a better way for all involved: the public, guards and the junkies themselves. But politicians like building projects rather effective policy implementation.

Most junkies I see everyday are on the south side. Cooke street. Christ church and Thomas street.

boombang

hfallada wrote: »

What would you suggest instead ?

IMO Abbey St between Liffey St and Capel St and North to Parnell Street has plenty of potential for filling in gaps and getting more street level units running. I think you have to consolidate areas where there is footfall before going to a place that's just beyond the centre like Parnell Sq.

However, again I would think that better policing and other policies could make the North inner city far more attractive than a library would.

boombang

kceire wrote: »

Most junkies I see everyday are on the south side. Cooke street. Christ church and Thomas street.

That's a fair point, but I didn't say that the Northside had any more of a problem with them than elsewhere. They can be seen on the Quays, Townsend St, Abbey St, all over the place. But I'm just saying that if I wanted to make the North inner city more pleasant I wouldn't concentrate on building expensive buildings, but I would concentrate on the conduct of the people. The same goes for anywhere in Dublin.

Ole Rodrigo

hfallada wrote: »

The surrounding areas are still horrific and a new library isnt going to solve that. The library should be moved to a more central location like the current central bank. I cant see how those house will be suitable for the library without gutting them to four walls even then it dont think it will be suitable.

There is barely any shops or coffee shops in the area and with Dublin city council policy of no toilets in its libraries ( I guess to stop heroin users shooting up and this area would have a lot of users so I can guess theyre will be no toilet in this new library either)

The old school on the Square corner is ideal for a library. Its big enough and right beside the writers museum and Hugh Lane, both of which incidentally, don't have any problems with heroin users looking to use their facilities.
None of the Georgian squares have many shops or cafes, this has nothing to do with where they are located. Parnell Street has plenty and one of the nicest cafes in the city ( Paris cafe ) is doing great on Moore street.

@hfallada - I'm taking it you don't live in the area, and as such know very little and have very little interest in it ? And using words like ' horrific ' is just silly.

The Parnell Square area has very little crime, has plenty of ( non retail ) footfall already, it is ideally placed to benefit from extra regeneration. In fact the drop in crime has been steady since the Hugh Lane and Garden of Remembrance refurbishment - perhaps a coincidence.

Also, you'll find most of the junkies come in from the western suburbs and congregate around the Jervis street / Burgh Quay/ Pearse street area

monument

Details, images and video: http://www.dublincity.ie/RecreationandCulture/ParnellSquareCulturalQuarter/Pages/default.aspx

It includes more than relocating the library!

Don't mind those who hardly can bring them self to cross the river.... Maybe the Luas will help them make the leap?

It's a great location given all of the related culture locations around it -- as well as Luas BXD at the bottom of the square, the amount of bus routes that pass by, and Grangegorman just around the corner.

expectationlost

when was that theatre behind the school built, they going to knock it?

wonder how many other parnell street building aren't fully utilised

Ole Rodrigo

monument wrote: »

It includes more than relocating the library!

It sure does, as a local I think its great news - now that construction costs have come down so much it might get finished too !

expectationlost wrote: »

when was that theatre behind the school built, they going to knock it?

wonder how many other parnell street building aren't fully utilised

As far as I know that building to the rear is part of the adjacent language school and isn't part of the plan, they do plan to integrate the Hugh Lane and library which are already physically connected.

I'd say quite a lot, Cholaiste Mhuire takes up quite a bit of space on the north of the square, once that is brought into use under the proposed plans it will change the feel of the place. To the west most are occupied but under utilized on the upper floors, not much can be done there, over on the east there are hotels and guest houses - the major problem is the traffic ( and pedestrian ) layout on the west side. The regeneration should tidy that up as well.

expectationlost

ror_74 wrote: »

It sure does, as a local I think its great news - now that construction costs have come down so much it might get finished too !



As far as I know that building to the rear is part of the adjacent language school and isn't part of the plan, they do plan to integrate the Hugh Lane and library which are already physically connected.

I'd say quite a lot, Cholaiste Mhuire takes up quite a bit of space on the north of the square, once that is brought into use under the proposed plans it will change the feel of the place. To the west most are occupied but under utilized on the upper floors, not much can be done there, over on the east there are hotels and guest houses - the major problem is the traffic ( and pedestrian ) layout on the west side. The regeneration should tidy that up as well.

alot of building have massive areas of unused space out the back as well
look at the picture and that building has changed in them, architect on the radio said they'd use the space behind the school too, don't think they could build the libary just in the old buildings

Ole Rodrigo

You could be right- there is a lot of space in the school though, it takes up almost half the north end of the square and theres also the basement areas too - in any case it will be huge improvement

squishykins

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out, I pass the area every day with college and work

I know an architect and was saying he had a project years ago renewing some of the georgian buildings on Parnell Square. He was saying that there was so much interference from the Irish Georgian society (down to what plaster you use on the walls, really nitty-gritty stuff) that the project had to be abandoned as costs had gone up tenfold. I'm all for preserving our heritage and that, but apparently that's why it's costing the government €60m, and also why most private investors can't do anything about these buildings.

anncoates

It's a perfect area to start of the regeneration.

It's central; has some historical/nice sites and buildings already (Rotunda, Ambassador building, Garden of Remembrance) and the square is still relatively intact but in need of some footfall.

As for the reasoning that it's surrounded by rough areas: many south city locations are too. Heaven forbid that we pump money into somewhere else other than the south city centre.

SebBerkovich

I'm delighted that the area is getting some attention.

Can't believe people are suggesting the library would be better off in Central Bank - I think it's obvious that the city library would be more at home beside The Hugh Lane, Irish Writers' Center and the Irish Writers Museum. Than between Temple Bar, The Foggy Dew and Starbucks.

admiralofthefleet

its about time something positive happened. DCC should be ashamed of themselves for deliberately neglecting the north of the city

Ole Rodrigo

squishykins wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out, I pass the area every day with college and work

I know an architect and was saying he had a project years ago renewing some of the georgian buildings on Parnell Square. He was saying that there was so much interference from the Irish Georgian society (down to what plaster you use on the walls, really nitty-gritty stuff) that the project had to be abandoned as costs had gone up tenfold. I'm all for preserving our heritage and that, but apparently that's why it's costing the government €60m, and also why most private investors can't do anything about these buildings.

I can understand the reasoning. Ultimately its cheaper to renovate the Georgian buildings properly, with all the attention to detail that requires, than to half do it and then revisit at a later date. It shouldn't mean nothing ever gets done by the same token. The Hillsboro Art gallery on the west side is an example of a successful renovation and is pretty encouraging for the rest of the square.

its about time something positive happened. DCC should be ashamed of themselves for deliberately neglecting the north of the city

Have to agree, I could never understand why either.

Can't believe people are suggesting the library would be better off in Central Bank - I think it's obvious that the city library would be more at home beside The Hugh Lane, Irish Writers' Center and the Irish Writers Museum. Than between Temple Bar, The Foggy Dew and Starbucks.

Definitely. Ive no idea what can be done with the Central Bank though - hotel maybe ? I think its an awful looking building anyway.

stevedublin

ror_74 wrote: »

Definitely. Ive no idea what can be done with the Central Bank though - hotel maybe ? I think its an awful looking building anyway.

Use it as a Central Bank when Ireland drops out of the €?

squishykins

ror_74 wrote: »

I can understand the reasoning. Ultimately its cheaper to renovate the Georgian buildings properly, with all the attention to detail that requires, than to half do it and then revisit at a later date. It shouldn't mean nothing ever gets done by the same token. The Hillsboro Art gallery on the west side is an example of a successful renovation and is pretty encouraging for the rest of the square.

That's not what they were pushing though, they were pushing for it to be made the same as it was when it was built, not changing things slightly so it looks the same but will last longer. It wasn't going to be a half-assed job in the first place, it's just different materials were going to be used that weren't used in the original building of those houses and such. The fact that the demands that are being made prevent any private investor from renovating these places because the costs are so high means that nothing will be done unless the investor is particularly wealthy or the Government step in.

stevedublin wrote: »

Use it as a Central Bank when Ireland drops out of the €?

Anyone else see this? It'd be mad if it was turned into a school, imagine spending your teenage years there!

Ole Rodrigo

I see what you mean.Still, it sounds reasonable . I would have thought it should be the government looking after the renovations anyway, including Mountjoy square.

Some great ideas for the Central Bank ! Not so sure about a school though, there isn't enough suitable housing for families to move into the city center as it is.

[Jackass]

It would be great if after spending tens of millions on the project, that they didn't put a methadone clinic in it, and actually policed it properly like any major city in the world, keeping begging, junkies, drunks and trouble makers off the main streets. (ever seen a strung out junkie or Roma begger in time square?)

They might as well start trying to clean up O'Connell Street while they're at it...

Cool Mo D

[Jackass] wrote: »

(ever seen a strung out junkie or Roma begger in time square?

I assume you're joking with this comment? Times square has plenty of 'interesting' beggars and homeless to be seen. Especially if you include the subway.

[Jackass]

Nope, not joking at all, or on 5th Avenue. Yes, they have "characters", and "street performers" and so on looking to make a buck, but they don't have junkies going around with a paper cup and they don't have ladies walking around with gold teeth following you up and down the street...Same applies Wesminster, chanselise etc. etc.

Cool Mo D

[Jackass] wrote: »

Nope, not joking at all, or on 5th Avenue. Yes, they have "characters", and "street performers" and so on looking to make a buck, but they don't have junkies going around with a paper cup and they don't have ladies walking around with gold teeth following you up and down the street...Same applies Wesminster, chanselise etc. etc.

Plenty of beggars with paper cups in Times Square, and having someone follow you down the street is certainly not normal in Dublin, and I live in the North inner city.

And, to take Westminster as an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15511996

Maybe you just don't notice it when you're abroad?

greyed

ror_74 wrote: »

^^

I think Parnell Square is an ideal place to start off a regeneration plan, it already has some established attractions to be built upon - once more people come to the area is will create its own renewal dynamic

As for the surrounding areas, Dominic Street is already being taken care of - what would you suggest instead ?

Just curious, how so? Is that giant vacant plot being developed any time soon?

Ole Rodrigo

Not sure what the hold up is, the removal of the east side buildings was completed over the past few months

http://www.dublincityarchitects.ie/?p=185

greyed

ror_74 wrote: »

Not sure what he hold up is, the removal of the east side buildings was completed over the past few months

http://www.dublincityarchitects.ie/?p=185

Thanks for that! Any plans for the flats on the west side?

Edit: Sorry for OT :P

Ole Rodrigo

Here is the original regeneration plan:

http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/CouncilPublications/Documents/Exec%20Summary%20Dominick%20Street.%20%20-%20Lo%20Res.pdf