[31-3-2013] 20.43 Pearse-Maynooth incident tonight [April Fools]

thomasj

There was an incident on the 20.43 pearse maynooth tonight where the driver took the wrong line!

We were baffled to see the train pass clontarf road. Clontarf road is not on the maynooth line!

Anyway after notifying the driver by pressing the emergency system the driver ran to howth junction before returning back towards connolly.

I got home to Clonsilla 50 minutes late tonight!

foggy_lad

thomasj wrote: »

There was an incident on the 20.43 pearse maynooth tonight where the driver took the wrong line!

We were baffled to see the train pass clontarf road. Clontarf road is not on the maynooth line!

Anyway after notifying the driver by pressing the emergency system the driver ran to howth junction before returning back towards connolly.

I got home to Clonsilla 50 minutes late tonight!

How could that happen with all the modern signalling and safety systems?

P_1

Now that's a navigational error I thought would have been impossible to make.

Having said that the day that's in it has me feeling somewhat suspicious...

thomasj

foggy_lad wrote: »

How could that happen with all the modern signalling and safety systems?

Yep I was testing ye you were right to be suspicious, having said that we are talking Irish rail strange (not as strange as that) things have happened.

thomasj

P_1 wrote: »

Now that's a navigational error I thought would have been impossible to make.

Having said that the day that's in it has me feeling somewhat suspicious...

You were right to be suspicious of the day in it!

thomasj

P_1 wrote: »

Now that's a navigational error I thought would have been impossible to make.

Having said that the day that's in it has me feeling somewhat suspicious...

Sorry double post!

Terrontress

thomasj wrote: »

Sorry double post!

Surely drivers can't decide where their trains go, only the speed that they go there.

onedmc

I blame the EU,

first it foreign taxi drivers that don't know where they are going now its foreign train drivers.

foggy_lad

onedmc wrote: »

I blame the EU,

first it foreign taxi drivers that don't know where they are going now its foreign train drivers.

The train was furrin but the driver could have been Irish.

Twoandahalfmen

foggy_lad wrote: »

The train was furrin but the driver could have been Irish.

Maybe an early April fools.

Hilly Bill

thomasj wrote: »

There was an incident on the 20.43 pearse maynooth tonight where the driver took the wrong line!

We were baffled to see the train pass clontarf road. Clontarf road is not on the maynooth line!

Anyway after notifying the driver by pressing the emergency system the driver ran to howth junction before returning back towards connolly.

I got home to Clonsilla 50 minutes late tonight!

I think the driver would have noticed before Clontarf road .

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

goingnowhere

April fools

It ran without issue, arrived at 20:52 in Drumcondra

AlekSmart

thomasj wrote: »

There was an incident on the 20.43 pearse maynooth tonight where the driver took the wrong line!

We were baffled to see the train pass clontarf road. Clontarf road is not on the maynooth line!

Anyway after notifying the driver by pressing the emergency system the driver ran to howth junction before returning back towards connolly.

I got home to Clonsilla 50 minutes late tonight!

It only took 1hr 6min for the first bite....and perhaps if the clocks in tj land had'nt been forwarded it was only 6 mins.....but when he bit...he BIT !! :pac: :pac: :pac:

Vic_08

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It can happen that trains are incorrectly routed, in most cases the driver would cop it at the junction signal and stop however there are occasions where both signaller and driver err and a train does take an incorrect route. Even if this does happen there is no safety issue as although it may be the wrong route for a particular service it would only be allowed to be routed if the given line was clear and protected.

A great description of such an incident on the London Underground is given here: http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/confession_time_.html
and it proves that even the best can make such errors.

Millem

iirc wasn't there a pathing failure relatively recently when the heuston mk3s were being transferred to north wall?

From recollection I thought I remember hearing that they ended up in Connolly due to the points not being set correctly east of Drumcondra. Think they decided to send the rake back to heuston and re attempt the next day rather than a reverse maneuver via Newcomen / ossory road / east wall junction...

Was this down to signaler error or was the routing deliberately changed mid journey for some reason?

I do remember this, it was the movement of the Mark 3 International set to North Wall.

Losty Dublin

Millem wrote: »

iirc wasn't there a pathing failure relatively recently when the heuston mk3s were being transferred to north wall?

From recollection I thought I remember hearing that they ended up in Connolly due to the points not being set correctly east of Drumcondra. Think they decided to send the rake back to heuston and re attempt the next day rather than a reverse maneuver via Newcomen / ossory road / east wall junction...

Was this down to signaler error or was the routing deliberately changed mid journey for some reason?

A pathing error is just that; a train that is misdirected to where it ought to actually go. I didn't hear about this but such has happened before.

There was one infamous incident in Limerick junction years ago when points weren't set for a Limerick bound freight train and it duly overshot the Junction. The driver stopped his train and the signal man in south box got permission from the north box for the train to reverse back onto the branch. However, the signal man in the north box got a bit mixed up, set the points as they should have been and dispatched the train back wrong way to Thurles where it met a very unhappy signalman there who was wondering why both his lines from the south were blocked up for so long

Captain Chaos

There was another one in the late '80 or early '90s. An Enterprise service ended up in North Wall yard instead of Connolly. The train somehow got mixed up by the signal man at Drogheda who set the path as if it were a Tara mines freight train which followed the Enterprise service. Even though the points at East Wall junction were set for the yard the driver carried on as he assumed the train was diverted due to a security alert and didn't question it until it ended up in the freight yard.

RonanM123

A pathing error is just that; a train that is misdirected to where it ought to actually go. I didn't hear about this but such has happened before.

There was one infamous incident in Limerick junction years ago when points weren't set for a Limerick bound freight train and it duly overshot the Junction. The driver stopped his train and the signal man in south box got permission from the north box for the train to reverse back onto the branch. However, the signal man in the north box got a bit mixed up, set the points as they should have been and dispatched the train back wrong way to Thurles where it met a very unhappy signalman there who was wondering why both his lines from the south were blocked up for so long

The most recently incident of this nature was at Llavistown a few years back just before the Mark 3 PP were withdrawn.

Captain Chaos

RonanM123 wrote: »

The most recently incident of this nature was at Llavistown a few years back just before the Mark 3 PP were withdrawn.

Was that when the driver decided to drive the train from the DVT using a non push pull 201 instead of running around the train and hauling the set. Think it was loco 212. When CTC at Connolly found out, they instructed the driver to run the loco around the train at the nearest loop.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Was that when the driver decided to drive the train from the DVT using a non push pull 201 instead of running around the train and hauling the set. Think it was loco 212. When CTC at Connolly found out, they instructed the driver to run the loco around the train at the nearest loop.

I heard an identical incident involving 201 on a Limerick-Dublin service. CTC ordered a runaround at Thurles.

Captain Chaos

Karsini wrote: »

I heard an identical incident involving 201 on a Limerick-Dublin service. CTC ordered a runaround at Thurles.

That's the one.

RonanM123

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Was that when the driver decided to drive the train from the DVT using a non push pull 201 instead of running around the train and hauling the set. Think it was loco 212. When CTC at Connolly found out, they instructed the driver to run the loco around the train at the nearest loop.

Don't know the full details but it was the DVT driving departing Kilkenny and at the junction signals cleared it for Waterford but the points were set for Dublin so the DVT and the other carrage came off the tracks. Line was closed for hours that afternoon and thinking about it now back then I am surprised they allowed the loop be used for services operating to Waterford seem as no passenger services operated before. Since that happened TSR's have being in place and once the ICR's started slower TSR's are in place, for what ever reason the 22's have real problems nobody knows why, staff spend months trying to see why they have to almost stop going over the points.

How is it possible for a DVT to drive a train when the loco is not PP?

Going very off topic but there was always some drives who didn't use the DVT when operating to Waterford they used always change loco around even thought the timetable didn't allow for it.

Captain Chaos

RonanM123 wrote: »

How is it possible for a DVT to drive a train when the loco is not PP?

Going very off topic but there was always some drives who didn't use the DVT when operating to Waterford they used always change loco around even thought the timetable didn't allow for it.

Not all the 201s had retractable buffers or can be fitted with knuckle coulpers, they are 201-205 and 210-214. These locos have to run around if they are hauling a Mk3 PP set. 071s ended up on Mk3 PP sets the odd time and they have to run around too. All 201s are wired for push pull and most of the 121s were. 141/181s and 071s were never wired for push pull operation.

I don't know why the 201s need retractable buffers and knuckle couplers for PP sets when the 121s didn't and they could work the PP sets.

RonanM123

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not all the 201s had retractable buffers or can be fitted with knuckle coulpers, they are 201-205 and 210-214. These locos have to run around if they are hauling a Mk3 PP set. 071s ended up on Mk3 PP sets the odd time and they have to run around too.

I don't know why the 201s need retractable buffers and knuckle couplers for PP sets when the 121s didn't and they could work the PP sets.

So in theory any 201 could operate a PP set.

Captain Chaos

RonanM123 wrote: »

So in theory any 201 could operate a PP set.

Yep, so long as all it's wiring and push pull equipment is working.

It's possible because the equipment used for push-pull is the same as that used for multiple working. To the MU gear, the DVT is just treated as another locomotive. IE use the American standard AAR system for multiple working but with some proprietary extensions to allow door control through the same cable.

141s and 071s can't work PP due to braking compatibility issues. In the 121s they fitted a lead/trail valve to work around this.

Captain Chaos

RonanM123 wrote: »

So in theory any 201 could operate a PP set.

In fact, IE had to modify the 201s. A problem was discovered when the locos MU cable would disconnect from the PP sets when it went over points or sharp curves. The cable would foul with the brake hose and fall out of the sockets causing the train to fail. In 1997 IE carried out mods to all the 201s, even the ones that should not be on PP sets. The MU sockets were moved up higher to beside the main headlight and the MU cable no longer get fouled in the brake lines. Only two 201s did not get this modification, 201 and 204. For some odd reason 202,203,205 and 210-214 for did, waste of time really.

goingnowhere

Karsini wrote: »

It's possible because the equipment used for push-pull is the same as that used for multiple working. To the MU gear, the DVT is just treated as another locomotive. IE use the American standard AAR system for multiple working but with some proprietary extensions to allow door control through the same cable.

Curiously every 201 has the door control buttons and the selector panel on the bulkhead has a Mk3pp position

goingnowhere

goingnowhere wrote: »

Curiously every 201 has the door control buttons and the selector panel on the bulkhead has a Mk3pp position

They do indeed. The 201s were capable of providing HEP to Mark 2s and Mark 3s too, so the doors would have been controlled from the locomotive if it had ever happened.