Personal abuse not dealt with

Profiler

In the Radio forum, Off The Ball thread a poster accused me of being bigoted.

I asked the poster to apologise for the comment, they did not.

I then reported the post in which the insult was made, twice, and nothing was done, the insult remains.

I reported it to a forum moderator by PM on the 16th of March, again nothing done and no reply to the PM.

I then reported it to 2nd moderator on the 18th of March, no reply, no action taken.

I then asked the 2nd Mod again on the 25th of March to please deal with the insult or at least have to courtesy to acknowledge my complaint. Yet again no response and no action taken.

There are two issues here, first of all the personal abuse of another poster and then secondly the fact that two moderators had the issue brought to their attention and did nothing.

Can this please be looked into?

Super-Rush

Speaking for my own forums, i wouldn't class that as personal abuse.

Profiler

Super-Rush wrote: »

Speaking for my own forums, i wouldn't class that as personal abuse.

How is claiming someone is a bigot not personal abuse?

In that post rather than counter what I had said with facts the poster resorted to insults and what I think most reasonable people would deem as clear abuse.

I'm sure if a someone called you a bigot on your forums or to your face you'd hardly thank them for the complement.

nesf

Hey, the people to talk to about this are the CMods of that Category.

BRAIN FEEDs

Profiler wrote: »

How is claiming someone is a bigot not personal abuse?

In that post rather than counter what I had said with facts the poster resorted to insults and what I think most reasonable people would deem as clear abuse.

I'm sure if a someone called you a bigot on your forums or to your face you'd hardly thank them for the complement.

so your not a bigot in the real world so to speak? good for you.

personally i couldnt care less what anyone calls me on an internet chat room,why would you let this rubbish consume your thoughts for so long? ignore the poster.

Profiler

nesf wrote: »

Hey, the people to talk to about this are the CMods of that Category.

OK, I've raised it with a CMod, we'll see what happens next.

Cheers

Super-Rush

Profiler wrote: »

How is claiming someone is a bigot not personal abuse?

In that post rather than counter what I had said with facts the poster resorted to insults and what I think most reasonable people would deem as clear abuse.

I'm sure if a someone called you a bigot on your forums or to your face you'd hardly thank them for the complement.

Its an opinion he has formed of you.

Personal abuse would be calling you a cnut or an asshole or a wanker.

Profiler

Super-Rush wrote: »

Its an opinion he has formed of you.

Personal abuse would be calling you a cnut or an asshole or a wanker.

Calling someone a bigot is an insult by any standard, I suspect you know full well it is.

Insults and trolling are not looked upon very well, you of all people should be aware of that.

padd b1975

Super-Rush wrote: »

Its an opinion he has formed of you.

Personal abuse would be calling you a cnut or an asshole or a wanker.

Interesting point of view.

So is it ok for posters to call others racist/homophobic etc etc as long as they qualify their remarks by saying its an opinion they have formed?

El Guapo!

In my opinion, calling someone a bigot is far from personal abuse. That post which the OP linked to may be a snippet of a slightly heated debate, but it isn't personal abuse.

Personal abuse would be an attack on the person and calling them a prick or whatever.
If that person had said to the OP, "You are intolerant of anyone elses ideas/beliefs and think you're right all the time", that post would not have been reported. It was only reported because a label was put on it.

Now on the other hand, if that person had said, "You are a bigoted bastard", then yes, that would be personal abuse and the OP would have a case. But as it stands, no action would be needed as far as I can see.

Just my 2c.

Profiler

El Guapo! wrote: »

In my opinion, calling someone a bigot is far from personal abuse. That post which the OP linked to may be a snippet of a slightly heated debate, but it isn't personal abuse.

Personal abuse would be an attack on the person and calling them a prick or whatever.
If that person had said to the OP, "You are intolerant of anyone elses ideas/beliefs and think you're right all the time", that post would not have been reported. It was only reported because a label was put on it.

Now on the other hand, if that person had said, "You are a bigoted bastard", then yes, that would be personal abuse and the OP would have a case. But as it stands, no action would be needed as far as I can see.

Just my 2c.

It was used in a derogatory sense.

An example above, if I call someone who is not homosexual "Gay" that is a homophobic insult. If they are homosexual then it can still be a derogatory comment as the context in which it was used is abusive.

As I am tolerant of religious diversity, regardless of my own views on the issue, to call me a bigot when I am not is insulting and personal abuse.

The context in which it was used was abusive, it was used to belittle my views on the matter and reduce them to ridicule.

Are you really arguing that the term bigot is not abusive, because if it isn't then it can be used with free abandon on Boards.ie in every forum.

Can I now pop over to the Religious forums and start chucking it about like confetti?

Of course I can't, if I did that I would expect even an average moderator to put an end to my use of it very quickly.

Super-Rush

padd b1975 wrote: »

Interesting point of view.

So is it ok for posters to call others racist/homophobic etc etc as long as they qualify their remarks by saying its an opinion they have formed?

If one poster is making racist or homophobic remarks and someone calls them a racist or a homophobe then i wouldn't be banning them for personal abuse. However i would tell them to report any offending posts rather than be a back seat moderator.

Racist and homophobic comments stand out like a sore thumb and the person being accused almost always is racist or homophobic.

Madam_X

Profiler wrote: »

How is claiming someone is a bigot not personal abuse?

In that post rather than counter what I had said with facts the poster resorted to insults and what I think most reasonable people would deem as clear abuse.

They did counter what you said with facts. And I know this will be seen as semantics but they didn't actually call you a bigot. They referred to your bigotry, which isn't the same thing IMO. It's attacking the post moreso than attacking the poster.
I do not think it's personal abuse at all to tell someone their views are bigoted if it can be reasonably substantiated. I don't think it's something that should be just thrown out with little cause, but it is a far cry from "You ****ing prick" and the like, which is obviously straightforward personal abuse.

P. Breathnach

Super-Rush wrote: »

If one poster is making racist or homophobic remarks and someone calls them a racist or a homophobe then i wouldn't be banning them for personal abuse. However i would tell them to report any offending posts rather than be a back seat moderator.

Racist and homophobic comments stand out like a sore thumb and the person being accused almost always is racist or homophobic.

You are failing to make a fundamental distinction between attacking the post and attacking the poster, and justifying it by using examples that are hot-button issues. In effect, you are saying that some personal attacks are justifiable. That's a dangerous foundation on which to base a general principle.

In my lexicon, "bigot" is an offensive term, and it is preferable that its use be avoided. It is no excuse to say that it is an opinion that has been formed the person using the word. In general, I would say that calling another poster a bigot merits action. I would go so far as to say that it merits action unless the context makes it quite clear that it is not intended as a general comment on the other poster.

In the case under discussion here, that defence might be available to styron: that Profiler seems to have shown a definite bias in his comments in the thread. I would suggest that the best mod practice here might be a "mod advisory" post telling styron that the word "bigot" should not be used.

Profiler

Madam_X wrote: »

They did counter what you said with facts. And I know this will be seen as semantics but they didn't actually call you a bigot. They referred to your bigotry, which isn't the same thing IMO. It's attacking the post moreso than attacking the poster.
I do not think it's personal abuse at all to tell someone their views are bigoted if it can be reasonably substantiated. I don't think it's something that should be just thrown out with little cause, but it is a far cry from "You ****ing prick" and the like, which is obviously straightforward personal abuse.

How can someone be blinded by their bigotry and not be a bigot?

You can't be blinded by your own bigotry and yet be open minded and tolerant now can you?

If reasonable substantiation is the acid test then the person who used the terms fails, in my response to the insult I put up a few facts that the poster was unaware of.

El Guapo!

Profiler wrote: »

It was used in a derogatory sense.

An example above, if I call someone who is not homosexual "Gay" that is a homophobic insult. If they are homosexual then it can still be a derogatory comment as the context in which it was used is abusive.

As I am tolerant of religious diversity, regardless of my own views on the issue, to call me a bigot when I am not is insulting and personal abuse.

The context in which it was used was abusive, it was used to belittle my views on the matter and reduce them to ridicule.

Are you really arguing that the term bigot is not abusive, because if it isn't then it can be used with free abandon on Boards.ie in every forum.

Can I now pop over to the Religious forums and start chucking it about like confetti?

Of course I can't, if I did that I would expect even an average moderator to put an end to my use of it very quickly.

Of course, calling someone a bigot can be offensive.
But there's one big thing missing from your analysis of the post in question. And it's a pretty big aspect of any discussion/argument/disagreement.
And that thing is context.

Context plays a pretty big part in any situation, and I'd imagine it also plays a pretty big part in mod decisions.
You're quite correct that if you sauntered over to the religious forums and started baselessly calling people bigots out of the blue, then yes, you would be reprimanded.
But the difference in your argument is that it was in a football thread, where you may or may not have been throwing around bigoted points of view. (I haven't read the thread so I don't know). In this instance, the mod in the forum will have a good feel for the thread and the general demeanor of the forum and they will make their decision based on the context in which the original post was written.

And in this case, you have reported the post a number of times, and even pm'd two different mods about the matter. No action was taken. You then proceed to start a Feedback thread on it when you didn't get your way, and the replies you have received have been overwhelmingly in favour of no action being taken. Yet you still think you are in the right. (See a pattern here?)

Let's call a spade a spade here......Is there any chance you were losing an argument and getting more and more frustrated, and so you quickly reported a post to "get one up" on the poster you were arguing with? And when you realised you were wrong, you kept going further and further with it, refusing to believe you may be wrong?

P. Breathnach

El Guapo! wrote: »

...
Let's call a spade a spade here......Is there any chance you were losing an argument and getting more and more frustrated, and so you quickly reported a post to "get one up" on the poster you were arguing with? And when you realised you were wrong, you kept going further and further with it, refusing to believe you may be wrong?

How do you call a spade a spade by asking speculative (and rhetorical) questions?

El Guapo!

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How do you call a spade a spade by asking speculative (and rhetorical) questions?

That's just how I roll. :cool:

Tombi!

What's wrong with what was said?

All he said was "you're so blinded by your own bigotry blah blah blah".

I mean if he said "you're a bigot and go around attacking Rangers fans" sure but if that's personal abuse I can't see how.

It can be called an exaggeration, sure. But it's not abuse at all.

padd b1975

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

What's wrong with what was said?

All he said was "you're so blinded by your own bigotry blah blah blah".

I mean if he said "you're a bigot and go around attacking Rangers fans" sure but if that's personal abuse I can't see how.

It can be called an exaggeration, sure. But it's not abuse at all.

I thinks its abuse via the back door.

More 'attack the post, not the poster' needed.

ibarelycare

I think the bigger problem here, rather than the alleged personal abuse, is that the OP took action 5 times in relation to the post (reporting it twice, and PMing two forum mods 3 times between them) and two weeks later no one has had the decency to respond to him. Fair enough if the mods decide he is in the wrong, but ignoring his actions 5 times is just downright rude.

Dades

ibarelycare wrote: »

I think the bigger problem here, rather than the alleged personal abuse, is that the OP took action 5 times in relation to the post (reporting it twice, and PMing two forum mods 3 times between them) and two weeks later no one has had the decency to respond to him. Fair enough if the mods decide he is in the wrong, but ignoring his actions 5 times is just downright rude.

The OP probably deserves a response alright.

Profiler, if you have an issue with a particular moderation (or lack of) the next step is to contact the CMods (in this case CabanSail or faceman).

Failing any satisfaction there, where the issue doesn't involve an infraction or a ban the Helpdesk is the place for specific moderation complaints.