General 'they make good engines' advice.

NIMAN

As someone thinking of changing car soon, and unsure what to buy re: petrol or diesel, can anyone offer general advice as to which manufacturers build reliable engines, and in which form.

I would hope to buy from one of the main manufacturers, like Ford, Audi, VW, Toyota, Mazda, Honda etc.

I know I have read over the years things like "Honda make excellent petrol, not so great diesels" etc.

Is there any general thoughts about engines from the above manufacturers?

Matt Simis

Honda make good petrol engines.

But seriously, engines rarely die or give trouble these days.. I would be more concerned with "whole car" reliability with the mess of electronics and control systems in them.

CiniO

NIMAN wrote: »

As someone thinking of changing car soon, and unsure what to buy re: petrol or diesel, can anyone offer general advice as to which manufacturers build reliable engines, and in which form.

I would hope to buy from one of the main manufacturers, like Ford, Audi, VW, Toyota, Mazda, Honda etc.

I know I have read over the years things like "Honda make excellent petrol, not so great diesels" etc.

Is there any general thoughts about engines from the above manufacturers?

I think you are late with this about 20 years.
Now plenty of manufacturers share engine constructions, so once once manufacturer will design good engine, then several others buy licence for this engine and use it in their own cars.
It goes the same with frames, suspensions, etc...

All cars are becoming similar to each other.

PS - what have you got against honda diesel engines? I got one recently and I'm more than happy.

Zcott

Previous poster is right - there's not really a bad engine out there.

CiniO

Zcott wrote: »

Previous poster is right - there's not really a bad engine out there.

Fiat 1.4 in bravo, brava...
This was absolute rubbish.

Zcott

CiniO wrote: »

Fiat 1.4 in bravo, brava...
This was absolute rubbish.

Point taken, I guess it is a Fiat after all...better not say that too loudly around here! ;-)

gowley

if you are thinking about vw and audi you might aswell add skoda and seat because they are all the same company

bazz26

The engine blocks themselves are solid enough and haven't massively changed over the years. Its the complex technology that they have added on to the engines to make they more fuel efficent or lower in emmissions that are not so reliable. For example on diesel engines and some petrol engines components like high speed fuel injectors, turbo/super chargers, DPS and DMS are all components proving to be less than reliable.

You also look at the way manufacturers are moving to smaller more complex capacity engines to maximise their power output. Nobody really knows how the extra stress on these small engines will work out in the long run. Unfortunately as emmission regulations become more strict more and more of this trend.

NIMAN

Fair enough I guess then that its more general, more like VAG 1.8 diesels of X technology is a good one?

As for my comments about Honda, I was using it as an example, nothing against them, never owned one.

CiniO

Zcott wrote: »

Point taken, I guess it is a Fiat after all...better not say that too loudly around here! ;-)

TBH I'm big Fiat fan, more than half of cars that I've owned were Fiats, and in general they make brilliant engines, but this particular one was complete disaster.
They have manufactured it between 1995 and 1998 afair, and then in 1998, then changed for 1.2 16v, which was more powerful and much more reliable.
I own a bravo myself with that 1.2 16v which is now 12 years old with over 200k kms on the clock, and engine runs like new. Doesn't burn even a drop of oil, still has all the power when it was new, and goes through NCT emissions check with nearly 0 values.

dgt

Zcott wrote: »

Point taken, I guess it is a Fiat after all...better not say that too loudly around here! ;-)

Please don't

gowley

CiniO wrote: »

TBH I'm big Fiat fan, more than half of cars that I've owned were Fiats, and in general they make brilliant engines, but this particular one was complete disaster.
They have manufactured it between 1995 and 1998 afair, and then in 1998, then changed for 1.2 16v, which was more powerful and much more reliable.
I own a bravo myself with that 1.2 16v which is now 12 years old with over 200k kms on the clock, and engine runs like new. Doesn't burn even a drop of oil, still has all the power when it was new, and goes through NCT emissions check with nearly 0 values.

u must be one of the lucky ones

dgt

gowley wrote: »

u must be one of the lucky ones

What does that mean?

gowley

dgt wrote: »

What does that mean?

it means you must be one of the lucky ones. fiat market share has disintegrated because of reliability reasons all over europe. it consistently trails the japenese and germans in surveys and thats why it sells feck all cars anymore

dgt

gowley wrote: »

it means you must be one of the lucky ones. fiat market share has disintegrated because of reliability reasons all over europe. it consistently trails the japenese and germans in surveys and thats why it sells feck all cars anymore

Where's the source for that?

Ireland is a piddling sheeps market anyway. They sell components to German, Jap and many other countries that make cars who use them in their cars (lights, sensors, wiring etc)

Quite often they make blocks for other manufacturers (this company)

I think they're doing quite well as they are

gowley

dgt wrote: »

Where's the source for that?

Ireland is a piddling sheeps market anyway. They sell components to German, Jap and many other countries that make cars who use them in their cars (lights, sensors, wiring etc)

Quite often they make blocks for other manufacturers (this company)

I think they're doing quite well as they are

im not talking about ireland. in the reply you should have clearly seen europe. the source for reliability is from the jd survey compiled every year by auto express and their sister publications. fiat and their other companies like alfa romeo consistently finish near the bottom for reliability. they took a majority stake in chrysler in 2011 and have made no difference yet to their issues.the only country where fiat are a market leader is brazil where they make a lot of their components. market share in europe for all their brands has collapsed. do you remember lancia?

dgt

gowley wrote: »

im not talking about ireland. in the reply you should have clearly seen europe. the source for reliability is from the jd survey compiled every year by auto express and their sister publications. fiat and their other companies like alfa romeo consistently finish near the bottom for reliability. they took a majority stake in chrysler in 2011 and have made no difference yet to their issues.the only country where fiat are a market leader is brazil where they make a lot of their components. market share in europe for all their brands has collapsed. do you remember lancia?

JD power survey is the UK, not Europe. And JD power survey, ran by What Car?/Auto Express which I find incredibly biased against anything Italian. Begrudging if I may

If they are that bad why are people still buying them, based on those stats? And is the bad result down to reliability of the car or crap customer service? I'd be leaning towards the latter

Yes I remember Lancia and the damage cheap Russian steel did to their image

biko

You can look at "reliable cars" surveys done by various companies.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-car-reliability-survey-2012/263555
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/06/top-10-most-reliable-family-cars.html
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2012/07/which-reveals-the-most-reliable-cars-of-2012-291377/
etc

gowley

think the below proves my point

dgt

gowley wrote: »

think the below proves my point

What link? The links above? All managed by the same group? What a surprise they rate Fiat so lowly....

Either way, people still buy them regardless of what those surveys say. I think that says something those surveys don't

gowley

dgt wrote: »

What link? The links above? All managed by the same group? What a surprise they rate Fiat so lowly....

Either way, people still buy them regardless of what those surveys say. I think that says something those surveys don't

lol not enough people buy them. people will buy the dacia duster but that doesnt make it a good car although it will probably be more reliable than a fiat or a alfa. there have been 5 examples of surveys and all are managed by the same group according to u. auto express and which are the same group? cant pretend i know there not but would be surprised

gowley

dgt wrote: »

What link? The links above? All managed by the same group? What a surprise they rate Fiat so lowly....

Either way, people still buy them regardless of what those surveys say. I think that says something those surveys don't

fiat and renault sales have fallen the most in 2012. fiat fell by 26% in its home country italy. source the irish times.i suppose this is also part of the same group. do u work for fiat or something.

dgt

gowley wrote: »

lol not enough people buy them. people will buy the dacia duster but that doesnt make it a good car although it will probably be more reliable than a fiat or a alfa. there have been 5 examples of surveys and all are managed by the same group according to u. auto express and which are the same group? cant pretend i know there not but would be surprised

It doesn't matter if people buy less Fiats, they supply a lot of components to other manufacturers. Engine blocks, gearbox components, electric modules, body parts, consumables...

Yes, people will buy the Dacia as it's cheap, cheerful etc. Doesn't make it a good car now does it...

It's always the same group of begrudgers who do not want to see the Italians do well. Rarely post positive attributes. Always lean on them asap. I can't see why to be honest except they're stuck in the past (frankly, where they belong)

gowley wrote: »

fiat and renault sales have fallen the most in 2012. fiat fell by 26% in its home country italy. source the irish times.i suppose this is also part of the same group. do u work for fiat or something.

Once again, no source link. No link I can click and read for myself.

Renault sales down yet people still buy the Dacia....

Do I work for Fiat? No, sadly.

Look at the username. Look at the location. Take the hint?

I haven't a clue what the problem here is with Fiat but more than likely what you drive uses components made by Fiat

JohnBoy26

dgt wrote: »

It doesn't matter if people buy less Fiats, they supply a lot of components to other manufacturers. Engine blocks, gearbox components, electric modules, body parts, consumables...

Yes, people will buy the Dacia as it's cheap, cheerful etc. Doesn't make it a good car now does it...

It's always the same group of begrudgers who do not want to see the Italians do well. Rarely post positive attributes. Always lean on them asap. I can't see why to be honest except they're stuck in the past (frankly, where they belong)



Once again, no source link. No link I can click and read for myself.

Renault sales down yet people still buy the Dacia....

Do I work for Fiat? No, sadly.

Look at the username. Look at the location. Take the hint?

I haven't a clue what the problem here is with Fiat but more than likely what you drive uses components made by Fiat

What other manufacturers do fiat supply apart from alfa romeo, opel/saab and Suzuki?

dgt

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

What other manufacturers do fiat supply apart from alfa romeo, opel/saab and Suzuki?

Off the top of my head:

All the French and Italian manufacturers
BMW
Ford
GM
Honda
Toyota
VAG

I'm sure there are plenty more

Could be anything from control units, lights, switches, sensors etc. Some GM blocks are made by Teksid along with several other manufacturers.

Look around a breakers and see how many lamps you see made by Magnetti Marelli not on Fiats for example.

I feel I don't need to prove myself considering Fiat pioneered the modern common rail injection system found on every modern diesel car. But, that's conveniently forgotten

Not much point of me posting in this thread anymore, the topic has gone way o/t from it's original intent

JohnBoy26

dgt wrote: »

Off the top of my head:

All the French and Italian manufacturers
BMW
Ford
GM
Honda
Toyota
VAG

I'm sure there are plenty more

Could be anything from control units, lights, switches, sensors etc. Some GM blocks are made by Teksid along with several other manufacturers.

Look around a breakers and see how many lamps you see made by Magnetti Marelli not on Fiats for example.

I feel I don't need to prove myself considering Fiat pioneered the modern common rail injection system found on every modern diesel car. But, that's conveniently forgotten

Not much point of me posting in this thread anymore, the topic has gone way o/t from it's original intent

While Teksid and Magnetti Marelli are associated with Fiat, it would be untrue to say that it is Fiat that supply the components to other car manufacturers as these are essentially outside component companies and are supplying components to other manufacturers that are completly unrelated to Fiat.

dgt

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

While Teksid and Magnetti Marelli are associated with Fiat, it would be untrue to say that it is Fiat that supply the components to other car manufacturers as these are essentially outside component companies and are supplying components to other manufacturers that are completly unrelated to Fiat.

Owned by Fiat, both Magnetti Marelli and Teksid. So whilst they may not have Fiat on the parts, each company is owned by Fiat.

I will say otherwise that Fiat do supply parts to other manufacturers.

End of

gowley

dgt wrote: »

It doesn't matter if people buy less Fiats, they supply a lot of components to other manufacturers. Engine blocks, gearbox components, electric modules, body parts, consumables...

Yes, people will buy the Dacia as it's cheap, cheerful etc. Doesn't make it a good car now does it...

It's always the same group of begrudgers who do not want to see the Italians do well. Rarely post positive attributes. Always lean on them asap. I can't see why to be honest except they're stuck in the past (frankly, where they belong)



Once again, no source link. No link I can click and read for myself.

Renault sales down yet people still buy the Dacia....

Do I work for Fiat? No, sadly.

Look at the username. Look at the location. Take the hint?

I haven't a clue what the problem here is with Fiat but more than likely what you drive uses components made by Fiat

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/30/us-fiat-earnings-idUSBRE89T1JV20121030 theres a link for you if you dont already know. the chief executive of fiat has said "without chrysler fiat would be in real trouble" or you could just google fiat sales in europe to find out how badly they are doing. this is not according this is their ceo. although you probably disagree with him aswell

JohnBoy26

dgt wrote: »

Owned by Fiat, both Magnetti Marelli and Teksid. So whilst they may not have Fiat on the parts, each company is owned by Fiat.

I will say otherwise that Fiat do supply parts to other manufacturers.

End of

And I will say again that just because fiat are associated with these companies, it does not mean that it is them supplying or making the parts for the other manufacturers. It's Teksid and Magnetti Marelli that make the parts to each manufacturers specification. Your are deluded if you think otherwise.

Guy:Incognito

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

And I will say again that just because fiat are associated with these companies, it does not mean that it is them supplying or making the parts for the other manufacturers. It's Teksid and Magnetti Marelli that make the parts to each manufacturers specification. Your are deluded if you think otherwise.

Thats a bit like saying your associated with yours parents but not not related.

JohnBoy26

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Thats a bit like saying your associated with yours parents but not not related.

Completely different and a ridiculous comparison:rolleyes:

So if my parents are Fiat and I am Teksid/Magnetti Marelli, does that mean my parents make and supply the parts?

gowley

bottom line is fiat sales are down worldwide.its a basket case with a reputation for unreliable cars across its group. im not even sure if magnetti is a fiat company but they have issued a profit warning, borrowings are up , sales way down and it doesnt alter the facts whether or not they own companies that do or do not make components and engines for other manufacturers. in fact its more damning on them if they do and their own brands are crap