French and Spanish TSM?

Seaic

Can I go for French and Spanish TSM if my only languages for Leaving Cert are Higher Level French and Higher Level Irish?

languagenerd

Yes, you can, provided you get the required grade in French (I think it's a C1, but check the prospectus/website). Spanish can be taken up as a beginner language. Just note that if you do take Spanish up from scratch, you still have to sit the same exams at the end of the year as those who did it for Leaving Cert. It'll take a fair amount of extra work outside classes to catch up, but it's do-able.

I did this course (will be finishing fourth year in five days time), but I wasn't a beginner in Spanish. Lots of people do it: I think about a third of my year group were beginners in first year. Beginners get 2 extra classes a week in first year.

One last thing to note: languages at TCD are fairly literature-based (particularly from 2nd year on). If you hate literature and just want to learn languages, don't do languages at university. If you like literature or can put up with it, you'll have no problem though.

Ravelleman

languagenerd wrote: »

If you hate literature and just want to learn languages, don't do languages at university. If you like literature or can put up with it, you'll have no problem though.

I´m not sure how one could separate the two, really.

playedalive

Just backing up with languagenerd said, I'm in 4th year Spanish too (also studied French). In general, language in university is not just learning the language. You are also studying literature, linguistics and cultural topics related (History, for example). In TCD, expect a huge emphasis on literature. Don't let us put you off though. Through the 4 years, I have learned a lot and have really consolidated my Spanish through the degree. But a genuine interest in literature is needed. At the same time, I wasn't an avid reader coming into the degree and I have really learned to appreciate how language can work. In terms of analytical skills, it really does give you the opportunity to really understand language.

Ravelleman wrote: »

I´m not sure how one could separate the two, really.

A lot of universities that offer language courses often have literature but also linguistics courses, history courses, film courses, etc. With TCD language degrees, the overwhelming emphasis is on literature. That is only one aspect of 'Hispanic Studies' or 'French Studies'. While there are modules in Sociolinguistics and History throughout second and subsequent years, it is minor in comparison to the literary modules on offer. While I do appreciate literature, I've more of an analytical/scientific mind. As a result, the sheer amount of literature can be difficult at times.

Also, OP, there are different degree courses apart from pure languages. Though, the true emphasis is on the communicative aspect of language. Business and Languages, for example. Also there are Applied Languages degrees (such as DCU), which focus on culture but also translation theory. From your consistent references to 'translation' on boards, I've a feeling that this sounds like what you're truly looking for.

languagenerd

Ravelleman wrote: »

I´m not sure how one could separate the two, really.

What I meant (as playedalive has already said) was that when you're in sixth year and trying to decide what to study in university, you think about the subjects you're good at in school. But French and Spanish at university are not the same as French and Spanish at school - you think you're going to be learning grammar and vocab and essay-writing and translation, and then you find yourself spending most of your time reading sixteenth century drama >.<

I definitely agree that literature should be part of language courses - but in some years of TSM, you have more literature classes a week than language ones...

Ravelleman

playedalive wrote: »

A lot of universities that offer language courses often have literature but also linguistics courses, history courses, film courses, etc. With TCD language degrees, the overwhelming emphasis is on literature. That is only one aspect of 'Hispanic Studies' or 'French Studies'. While there are modules in Sociolinguistics and History throughout second and subsequent years, it is minor in comparison to the literary modules on offer. While I do appreciate literature, I've more of an analytical/scientific mind. As a result, the sheer amount of literature can be difficult at times.

You're preaching to the converted, although I was in ES rather than TSM.

Literature doesn't just mean reading novels though - it's the written word. Anyone studying any kind of language has to work with literature. It can't be separated from language learning.

Although in ES one doesn't study much in terms of drama or fiction, you still have to deal with historical texts or works on cultural theory in various different language modules. In fact, when I was in final year Spanish we did have to deal with quite lot of fiction and poetry in the Advanced Translation course - this may have changed though as I understand that ES and TSM have now been separated to make smaller groups. That was the time when I learned most about how Spanish works.

There are only so many classes of directed learning that a student of languages can really benefit from. There comes a time when only analysing literature can make a difference and colsolidate what has been taught.

Ravelleman

languagenerd wrote: »

What I meant (as playedalive has already said) was that when you're in sixth year and trying to decide what to study in university, you think about the subjects you're good at in school. But French and Spanish at university are not the same as French and Spanish at school - you think you're going to be learning grammar and vocab and essay-writing and translation, and then you find yourself spending most of your time reading sixteenth century drama >.<

Ultimately I would hope that's not what people think but perhaps you're right in stressing this.

I still think what I wrote in the post above applies to what you're saying though.

playedalive

Ravelleman wrote: »

You're preaching to the converted, although I was in ES rather than TSM.

Literature doesn't just mean reading novels though - it's the written word. Anyone studying any kind of language has to work with literature. It can't be separated from language learning.

Well my post had a dual purpose of informing the OP that there are a variety of ways to study a language without necessarily doing a pure languages degree.

Yeah I know what you mean about Literature. Obviously, the written word is important to learn in any language. But, fiction/theatre takes up most of our time. I think it's important to make the OP aware that a pure languages degree entails a lot more than just learning a language. Particularly in TCD, where the overwhelming emphasis is on literature (different types of fiction/theatre). Very few people know after LC what these degrees really entail.