Diesels and DPFs - how likely are they to fail?

NIMAN

I have been reading a lot of threads talking about DPFs and the cost of sorting them if they fail, and was wondering just how likely this is to happen?

I understand that they are more likely not to fail if the vehicle is driven good long distances, and more likely if it does a lot of short runs or town driving? Correct?

Also, is there any difference across different manufacturers? Does any manufacturer have a bad record of DPF failure?

And is there any diesels that don't use DPFs? Or they pretty much standard on diesel vehicles now?

colm_mcm

Are you talking new cars?

YbFocus

I have my own removed from my BMW, it clogged up and it is way cheaper to remove than to replace, also you never need to worry again.
My fathers Octavia also got DPF trouble but he of course replaced it.
They do seem to give trouble from the vast majority of threads etc you read about, but a simple removal fixes it. So I'd say drive it until it gives hassle and then remove it

ofcork

I believe they are on all diesels now to meet euro 5 emission levels,there seems to be a regular failure rate across them all i cant recall the figure of breakdowns in the uk last year caused by dpfs now.As an aside i have been looking for a 2012 avensis and dont want a diesel because my driving wouldnt suit yet there is NOT ONE petrol for sale on ant site.

NIMAN

colm_mcm wrote: »

Are you talking new cars?

No, it will be 2nd hand. Thinking of changing car in summer, and DPFs starting to scare me now.

I already own another 2010 diesel car, how will you know if your DPF gives you trouble? How does it manifest itself?

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

.......How does it manifest itself?

Emissions system warning or similar displayed would be the primary indicator.

NIMAN

What sort of cost involved (roughly)?

Once they fail does a clean fix them or do they need replaced?

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

What sort of cost involved (roughly)?

€700 ish to €2000 ish +

NIMAN wrote: »

Once they fail does a clean fix them or do they need replaced?

They can fail and respond to a forced regen or they can fail.

TGi666

there just the new dual mass flywheel
on the plus side at least they can be removed on the cheap

ofcork

Will the emission levels they have to meet be part of the nct in future though?

NIMAN

Was thinking of buying an MPV, which will be doing a mixture of long runs in top gear, and maybe 50% of its work in 15 runs over maybe 10miles.

Starting to think petrol might be the way to go!

Gumbo

I have 106k on my car with no DPF issues. My cousin has 140k on his car with no DOPF issues either.

Along as you give the car a bit of stick every now and again it will self regenerate.

Although BMW still recommend DPF replacement at a given mileage but there's a guy in Limerick that can clean them out so good they are within the tolerances of new parts supplied by BMW. The local dealers are starting to use him down there.

My cousin used him to get his cleaned as it was flashing on the idrive even though it was driven perfect but the small preventive cost is better than the large fix cost.

Ben is his name http://www.dpfreconservices.com/

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Was thinking of buying an MPV, which will be doing a mixture of long runs in top gear, and maybe 50% of its work in 15 runs over maybe 10miles.
.........

Would that 15 10 miles runs a week or 15 runs that cumulatively add to 10 miles?

Also what do you mean by long runs?

Row

The first road car in eurpoe to use dpfs were peugeot on there
607 2.0 hdi in 2001 and the 2.2 hdi in 2002.
The first dpfs were serviced/replaced at 80k mls then they pushed it out to around 120k mls.

Dpfs are basically a holding container for sooth and when the differential pressure and soot% reaches a certain level then the engine ecu triggers the regeneration process where the injectors pulse a post injection of fuel into the cylinders just before the exhaust valves open..this inturn heats up the dpf to around 650 degs C to burn off the soot.

I have used a certain process to clean totally blocked dpfs with successful results...:)


Dpfs are here to stay so we'll have to get used to them...

NIMAN

RoverJames wrote: »

Would that 15 10 miles runs a week or 15 runs that cumulatively add to 10 miles?

Also what do you mean by long runs?

It was meant to read 15min runs over 10miles.

.... and the long runs.

'tis like pulling teeth at times.

dieselbug

Apart from driving style, there's usually an underlying fault for the dpf to fail. I'v seen cars coming op to 200k with no issues.
Recently spoke to an A4 owner who had his dpf replaced by a main dealer at a cost of e1,600 only for the fault to reoccur a month later. Turned out it had an egr fault. Most replacement dpfs, afaik are exchange units ie they are cleaned, reconditioned. So your old blocked unit will be cleaned and end up on someone else's car.

If you heed the depullotion warning and attend the problem early it can save a lot of grief. Unfortunately a lot of drivers will ignore it and continue driving until the dpf becomes completely blocked.

_Kaiser_

NIMAN wrote: »

Was thinking of buying an MPV, which will be doing a mixture of long runs in top gear, and maybe 50% of its work in 15 runs over maybe 10miles.

Starting to think petrol might be the way to go!

I'm kinda in the same boat TBH

Thinking of changing from a 2L diesel Passat to an A6 but I'm not doing the mad mileage I used to be anymore. Nowadays it's about 10/15 mins each way at city speeds 5 days a week. Not great for a diesel.

That said though I do a long motorway spin a few times a month (maybe 1000-1200 km total) so buying a petrol would probably crucify me on that side of it? (Anyone any real world experience on the consumption of say a 2.4 A6 petrol vs the 2.7/3.0 TDI equivalent?)

Maybe I just need 2 cars.. cheap rounaround during the week and a nicer diesel at weekends

NIMAN

RoverJames wrote: »

.... and the long runs.

'tis like pulling teeth at times.

Well my commute is 25 miles each way, flat out at 100km all the way, top gear (5 days per week). Not sure if that is whats needed to help clean a DPF?

But problem is, we have 2 cars, so the new car might not always get the 5 days on the 'long' run. It might get 2 of the 5 days. Rest of the time the OH will be using it on her commute, which is the 10 mile each way, twisty roads so not getting any speed at all. I'm thinking if a good proportion of the new cars driving is her commute then maybe petrol makes more sense.

I'd be slow to get a diesel unless twould be doing 10k miles a year ish at least, although petrol mpv post 2008 probably don't exist here. 3 days with you and 2 with your good lady would be 10k miles a year. Leave it in 4th one way once a week with you maybe

somefeen

Would say a good longish run twice a week keep it clear? Like say 50 miles?

NIMAN

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd be slow to get a diesel unless twould be doing 10k miles a year ish at least, although petrol mpv post 2008 probably don't exist here. 3 days with you and 2 with your good lady would be 10k miles a year. Leave it in 4th one way once a week with you maybe

That will just feel so wrong, and probably get crucified in MPG, but I suppose if it helps then it would be worth it.

At 60mph driving a diesel in 4th for 25 miles will have a tiny, tiny effect on mpg. Wouldn't be over 2500rpm in most modern large ish yokes.

Elessar

The DPF issue is beginning to seriously annoy me.

I am considering changing my car to a BMW 1 series but I only do 7000 to 8000km a year so I've always had petrol and I only want petrol.

Only no one is buying petrol anymore and 1 to 2 year old petrol BMWs are like hens teeth. You just can't get them, and even when they are available, they are mostly underpowered. I have no choice but to go diesel if I want to change. But I don't want the headache of a clogging DPF!! Too much hassle for me going for long spins just for the sake of it!

It's seriously depressing that diesel is the future. People who only want petrols are seriously hampered, unless we buy new.

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

............1 to 2 year old petrol BMWs are like hens teeth. You just can't get them.............. People who only want petrols are seriously hampered, unless we buy new.

Plenty of them across the Irish Sea

No shortage of dealers here who'll get one for you either, if you don't fancy doing it yourself

Buying one a year or two old makes it much much less risky if you keep your wits about you.

Elessar

RoverJames wrote: »

Plenty of them across the Irish Sea

No shortage of dealers here who'll get one for you either, if you don't fancy doing it yourself

Buying one a year or two old makes it much much less risky if you keep your wits about you.

I've a 12 reg trade in though. Do dealers up north accept Irish trade ins?

dieselbug

"It's seriously depressing that diesel is the future. People who only want petrols are seriously hampered, unless we buy new."

I seriously dont think diesel is the future. The future looks bright for the next generation of petrols, smaller more efficient engines like the new Ford. There is more, stricter regulations on the way and diesels will suffer..

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

I've a 12 reg trade in though. Do dealers up north accept Irish trade ins?

Trade in might be a ball ache depending on what it is, petrol presumably? There are plenty of ROI dealers that will import a petrol 1 series for you, no real need to go to NI imo.

If I was you I'd buy a cheap yoke (€500/€700 ish), sell the 2012 privately on donedeal or at least test the water, than all going well put the cheap yoke on the road, than have a looksee in England for your ideal 1 series

bazz26

Elessar wrote: »

The DPF issue is beginning to seriously annoy me.

I am considering changing my car to a BMW 1 series but I only do 7000 to 8000km a year so I've always had petrol and I only want petrol.

Only no one is buying petrol anymore and 1 to 2 year old petrol BMWs are like hens teeth. You just can't get them, and even when they are available, they are mostly underpowered. I have no choice but to go diesel if I want to change. But I don't want the headache of a clogging DPF!! Too much hassle for me going for long spins just for the sake of it!

It's seriously depressing that diesel is the future. People who only want petrols are seriously hampered, unless we buy new.

I doubt that, as the cheap motor tax on them creeps up every year, they will loose their novelty wih the average Irish motorist. Like all trends they come and go.

Elessar

RoverJames wrote: »

Trade in might be a ball ache depending on what it is, petrol presumably? There are plenty of ROI dealers that will import a petrol 1 series for you, no real need to go to NI imo.

If I was you I'd buy a cheap yoke (€500/€700 ish), sell the 2012 privately on donedeal or at least test the water, than all going well put the cheap yoke on the road, than have a looksee in England for your ideal 1 series

Yeah it'a a petrol Golf. I'd get raped selling it privately! Doubt I'd get anywhere near what I could on a trade in plus I don't know how long it would take. Too much hassle. I'd prefer to trade in and have a warranty.

There are a few 116i's (nice m-sports) in dealerships up north, I might give them a ring midweek. I wonder would they take a republic car as a trade in and sort out the VRT themselves for me...

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

.............. I'd get raped selling it privately! Doubt I'd get anywhere near what I could on a trade in................

You'll get raped just as much with a trade in if you look at the numbers properly. They'll dress it up to attempt to fool you alright.