My low-income, elderly mother has been charged a 433.27 cancellation fee

SandraJ

My mother who is 80, and borderline senile, recently had her government subsidy for telephone charges stopped. 

Her income from government pensions is negligible and she has no savings. So she searched (inadvisedly, I wasn't aware of the situation) for a cheaper option and found Digiweb. She changed over to Digiweb (after much difficulty with modems etc). 

Then she was sent a final bill from Eircom charging her 433.27 for cancelling her contract. 

She was, of course, entirely unaware that this would be the charge for cancellation. 

I have been on the telephone to Eircom, but was stone-walled.

Basically I was told the only option was for her to write to the complaints department. I was told that if my mother had spoken to Eircom about her financial issues she'd have been given a better rate. My mother says she did this and all that she was offered was 6 months at her normal reduced rate with the government subsidy. 

When I asked to speak to a manager ( I was very polite, btw ) I was told that the manager would not speak to me.

I then chatted briefly with an Eircom technical support person online who suggested that it MIGHT be possible for the charge to be waived if she returned to Eircom, but of course Digiweb also charges a cancellation fee (albeit much better at 123 euros). 

I am utterly shocked at this appalling situation, and will take it to the press if Eircom can not offer any resolution. 

Any advice much appreciated.

Sponge Bob

First of all WHAT CONTRACT??

€433 is a new contract of €40 a month with nearly a year left on it, it would probably have to include broadband or else a deal on UK or US calls.

Most elderly people carry on year to year on standard contracts. She should not have lost her subsidy but it would have been reduced in 2013. That is a social welfare matter.

In order to roll a longstanding customer into a 'new' contract eircom have to offer her a deal , it could include EG calls to UK or UK at a special rate.

Then they must record the call where they offer her this 'deal' and the recording must show whe understood the offer and that she assented clearly to it...and it must be a recent recording with numbers like that.

First thing to do is contact complaints and demand the recording. No recording = No contract by the way.

If there is no recording then reporting them to the fraud squad is the best way to deal with it.

SandraJ

Sponge Bob wrote: »

First thing to do is contact complaints and demand the recording. No recording = No contract by the way.

If there is no recording then reporting them to the fraud squad is the best way to deal with it.

Thanks Sponge Bob. Is it the complaints department that will have this information? I seem to remember somewhere that there is a specific department to obtain such recordings...?

macsauce

Your borderline senile mother decided to renegotiate her telephone and broadband? :rolleyes:

SandraJ

macsauce wrote: »

Your borderline senile mother decided to renegotiate her telephone and broadband?

Yes.

SandraJ

She's an unusual woman.

Sponge Bob

SandraJ wrote: »

She's an unusual woman.

Who rang who first Sandra???

SandraJ

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Who rang who first Sandra???

I will have to find that out -- tricky right now unfortunately as my mother has gone into an emotional spiral about it all and doesn't want to talk about it she's so upset.

Sponge Bob

SandraJ wrote: »

I will have to find that out -- tricky right now unfortunately as my mother has gone into an emotional spiral about it all and doesn't want to talk about it she's so upset.

If they called her you probably have grounds for a complaint. Salespeople ring all the time to get contracts 'renewed' but if there is no gain to your mother from such a renewal ...eg a reduction in the package price after the call...then any such contract is a nonsense. It is an unfair contract.

If she was induced to enter a contract after the last Budget ( think Dec/Jan before the higher bills went out first) and after eircom subsidies were cut dramatically then it seems extremely unfair to me and grounds for a complaint leading to termination of countract. You must get a copy of the recording on which eircom rely to prove there is a contract. 

If, however, she rang them things are somewhat less clear.

macsauce

I'm pretty sure for a contract to be valid both parties must fully understand what they are agreeing too. In this instance it seems your mother is not fit to make such agreements. I would first write Eircom a registered letter explaining all the facts and take a copy of it too. Give them a reasonable amount of time to reply, say 14 to 21 days and if there is silence, or no change in their stance, i would talk to a solicitor. I would advise you keep the tone of the letter factual and try to remove emotions from it (easier said than done, i know). I would advise against making threats, such as going to the press, as they never work and in any case Eircom can reasonably assume no paper would be interested.

SandraJ

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. Right now without full information from my mother, it does seem that the main issue is her lack of understanding of the ramifications of her choice -- that due to her age and mental/emotional instability there should be a resolution at least based on these factors alone. However I suspect that an Eircom lawyer would fight the allegations by me that she's not in full mental grip, as she has not been 'certified' in any way by a doctor - but as her daughter I'm acutely aware of a number of decisions she makes that are illogical or highly detrimental to her well being.

psalbmb

SandraJ wrote: »

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. Right now without full information from my mother, it does seem that the main issue is her lack of understanding of the ramifications of her choice -- that due to her age and mental/emotional instability there should be a resolution at least based on these factors alone. However I suspect that an Eircom lawyer would fight the allegations by me that she's not in full mental grip, as she has not been 'certified' in any way by a doctor - but as her daughter I'm acutely aware of a number of decisions she makes that are illogical or highly detrimental to her well being.

Unfortunately, Senile or Not, if she agreed over the phone and Eircom have the recording, the contract would stand, as the agents aren't to know who's senile and who isnt. Especially as she's not being "certified" as mentally incapable, you really don't have a case at all.

Chemical Burn

Is no one from Eircom gonna man up and talk to this gentleman to help this elderly lady resolve her issue? Might i suggest that if these corporate capitalist scum don't waive the fee, boards members can all chip in a quid or 2 somehow and shame these pigs.

thefinalstage

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Is no one from Eircom gonna man up and talk to this gentleman to help this elderly lady resolve her issue? Might i suggest that if these corporate capitalist scum don't waive the fee, boards members can all chip in a quid or 2 somehow and shame these pigs.

This was posted on the Saturday of the bank holiday...you have to give the lads working a chance to respond. No one here knows whats actually happening so hold off on the socialst rhetoric. If eircom made a boo boo then it will be sorted.

OP: You may try writing to and or emailing the ceo complaints department.

StickyIcky

Call the citizens advice number. Small claims court too.

TheChizler

StickyIcky wrote: »

Call the citizens advice number. Small claims court too.

Small claims is for when people potentially owe YOU something.

mathepac

Chemical Burn wrote: »

...

@Chemical Burn I have forwarded your post to the mods. It is one of the most offensive I have seen on here.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Chemical Burn has received a warning for that post. Any more comments like that won't be tolerated and will earn the poster an infraction at the very least.

AMCCORK

OP I think eircom might have called your mother. I know my own mother received two high pressure calls from them after the announcement of the social welfare changes trying to get her to sign up for discount deals  but she kept telling them she didn't understand and they would have to talk to her daughter about it so def ask for details of the recordings.

psalbmb

StickyIcky wrote: »

Call the citizens advice number. Small claims court too.

 what are you talking about? small claims court too? for what exactly? the OP said herself, her mother however senile she is, is not registered as being senile by the state, therefore during the verbal contract, if it went to court, they'd favour Eircom, as it was not reasonably forseeable that the mother was not in a fit state to make such decisions

StickyIcky

psalbmb wrote: »

what are you talking about? small claims court too? for what exactly? the OP said herself, her mother however senile she is, is not registered as being senile by the state, therefore during the verbal contract, if it went to court, they'd favour Eircom, as it was not reasonably forseeable that the mother was not in a fit state to make such decisions

It's only €20 for small claims court and it's worth a shot to save €400 amirite?  I think it's fairly horrific to charge someone €400+ to cancel an eircom contract it's practically robbery. I mean how much damage is it going to cost eircom to cancel someones contract? They probably need to pay someone an hour to do the paper work and put teh cancellation through, of course they won't be getting any more money from her but it's her money not theirs. I think it's a farce to be honest. Fair enough if you started a contract to build a house and or paint a car and halfway through the person pulls out they should fit the bill, but for cancelling a phone connection? €400???? Bloody hell. At the very least perhaps it could be negotiated a bit if someone from the courts listened to his case. Or do I have too much faith in the legal system and humanity? It would be worth trying all avenues and I was only making a suggestion. :P Also that's why I said speak to consumer rights advice line as I'm not an expert, only making possible suggestions and giving my ignorant opinions

Sponge Bob

SCC is not worth a shot at all. either let the reps here deal with what appears to be an unfair contract issue or take it to formal complaint and comreg after 10 days if not resolved.

?Cee?view

psalbmb wrote: »

 her mother however senile she is, is not registered as being senile by the state, therefore during the verbal contract, if it went to court, they'd favour Eircom, as it was not reasonably forseeable that the mother was not in a fit state to make such decisions

I count at least three bits of made up pubstool law in that post.

"registered as being senile by the state" - what?  Since when does this happen?

"reasonably foreseeable" - and reasonable foreseeability has what exactly to do with contracts?

"not in a fit state to make such decisions" - by whose standards?

OP, you are at a very difficult stage in dealing with your mother's situation.  Good luck.  I would suggest that you make a request for all on your mother's file with Eircom under the Data Protection Act.  This should include copies of voice recordings.  See where you go from there but do not be bullied into paying if at all possible.  Unfortunately, as your mother is likely at a delicate stage you may find that paying at least a portion is the least upsetting course of action for her.

StickyIcky

Sponge Bob wrote: »

SCC is not worth a shot at all. either let the reps here deal with what appears to be an unfair contract issue or take it to formal complaint and comreg after 10 days if not resolved.

Actually that's a better idea than my ideas

eircom: Mark

SandraJ wrote: »

My mother who is 80, and borderline senile, recently had her government subsidy for telephone charges stopped. 

Her income from government pensions is negligible and she has no savings. So she searched (inadvisedly, I wasn't aware of the situation) for a cheaper option and found Digiweb. She changed over to Digiweb (after much difficulty with modems etc). 

Then she was sent a final bill from Eircom charging her 433.27 for cancelling her contract. 

She was, of course, entirely unaware that this would be the charge for cancellation. 

I have been on the telephone to Eircom, but was stone-walled.

Basically I was told the only option was for her to write to the complaints department. I was told that if my mother had spoken to Eircom about her financial issues she'd have been given a better rate. My mother says she did this and all that she was offered was 6 months at her normal reduced rate with the government subsidy. 

When I asked to speak to a manager ( I was very polite, btw ) I was told that the manager would not speak to me.

I then chatted briefly with an Eircom technical support person online who suggested that it MIGHT be possible for the charge to be waived if she returned to Eircom, but of course Digiweb also charges a cancellation fee (albeit much better at 123 euros). 

I am utterly shocked at this appalling situation, and will take it to the press if Eircom can not offer any resolution. 

Any advice much appreciated.

Hi SandraJ

I apologise for the delay in getting back to your post.

Can you send on your mothers account number and I can look into it for you in detail.

Thanks, Mark

SandraJ

I appreciate this and everyone's input - this is probably the most accurate suggestion  "Unfortunately, as your mother is likely at a delicate stage you may find that paying at least a portion is the least upsetting course of action for her." 

But will send account details as asked for by Mark.

SandraJ

eircom: Mark wrote: »

Hi SandraJ

I apologise for the delay in getting back to your post.

Can you send on your mothers account number and I can look into it for you in detail.

Thanks, Mark

Mark, I will send you a PM with this.

eircom: Mark

SandraJ wrote: »

Mark, I will send you a PM with this.

Hi SandraJ,

I Got your PM thanks. I will look into into it in detail and get back to you.

Thanks, Mark