Bad news for the DCM

gerard_65

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/dublin-marathon-slowdown-as-sponsorship-gap-forces-cutbacks-1.1343754

Mint Sauce

Increased from €70 to €75.

:eek:

Even the original price is slightly crazy.

Would like to do a marathon this year, and was considering Dublin, but surely that price puts people off.

RacoonQueen

Entry fee increased for the first time in 9 years?

Ummm it was €60 when I first ran in 2007.

ThePiedPiper

I hate to say it, because Jim and his team do wonderful work, but surely something could be worked out to get a sponsor. Are they just holding out for the 200k mark? Would there not be other offers coming in, and better accepting a smaller amount than being left with no sponsor for the second year running?

While Jim is adamant that €75 represents value compared to the big city marathons, I would question whether Dublin should be regarded as a big city marathon. It has no IAAF Gold, Silver or Bronze medal. Of these type races I've done, London, Paris and Amsterdam are substantially cheaper and all have IAAF Gold or Silver medals. Yes, NYC, Boston and Chicago are more expensive, but they are true big city marathons with prize purses of probably $1m or so. I can't understand how most European cities can host marathons for €50 entry fee or less. Is DCC not supportive enough, the cost structure must be out of sync somewhere.

And also, I seem to remember paying €55 or thereabouts for the 2005 race. There used to be early bird discounts or something, I can't remember. But, it definitely was not 70 Euro back then.

average_runner

Its the market that determines the sponsorhip price and not the other way around. Considering smaller marathons and ones of similar size are getting deals, the organisation needs to look again.

Hope it doesn't become rock'n'roll marathon.

average_runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Entry fee increased for the first time in 9 years?

Ummm it was €60 when I first ran in 2007.

I thought that too. I ran first time in 2008 and it was cheaper than 2009.

RacoonQueen

I think part of the problem is the fact it costs so much to stage a race in Ireland. When Ironman was organising the 70.3 in Galway they commented that it costs more to stage a race here than elsewhere. Given the sort of money the race must bring into Ireland with tourism DCC, Failte Ireland, Guards etc maybe need to look at the prices they're passing on to DCM.

walshb

Much ado about nothing! Price wise almost everything in life goes up. A 5 euro raise in 7-8 years is very little.

AJAYC

Sponsors are getting thinner on the turf & their contributions have been reduced & this downward trend will continue for at least a few years, do we really need another technical top or medal? I just want well organised races with some fodder & a social side after.

tHE vAGGABOND

Already entered in DCM, and looking forward to racing it and blowing a hole in my PB [where I experienced it as a pacer last year and had a nightmare the year before!]!

How many other things have been at or around the same price for so long, with the cost of things like insurance and what not going though the roof over last 10 years!

Agree with RunForrestRun above, I have to wonder if they are thinking they dont want to devalue their brand by accepting less money than they believe? I read an article somewhere about a race in the states which employed professional consultants to get a decent sponsor on board, about changing what they offer in the name of offering sponsors actual value and returns on their investment, rather than treating it as some kind of charity!

Wonder if this is another step on the road to "Rock N Roll Dublin City Marathon"

frfintanstack

You have to ask serious questions about the running of this event if they cant find a main sponsor, again!!

and that at a time when running never seems to have been as popular

sconhome

I think its madness that they are pricing themselves out of sponsorship. Theres an event coming up shortly in the West which is €70 to enter, capped at 3,200 entrants, yes there is less infrastructure costs, but a sports shop can afford to be the title sponsor.

On a different costs level altogether an event with 14,000 entrants, huge public support on the entire route, massive international appeal, the Gathering Year (etc. etc.) many individual sponsors (look at the back of the shirts) a decent expo can't attract a sponsor / is prices out of affordable sponsorship and has to raise entry fees?

On balance €75 is not a rip off, you could be paying €90 to run up and down a mountain or €50 to roll in a muddy field somewhere.

Cut costs where necessary yes, give people the option of buying a souvenir T-shirt for €10, like so many other events do, and get support from the Sports Council, health insurers for encouraging so many people to achieve healthy goals and from Failte Ireland for attracting so many foreign visitors with the resulting spin off to local economy far outweighing the costs.

plodder

Don't think this will make much difference to the ordinary runner. 75 euro is really not a bad price for what you get and considering the field is not huge. A lot of the costs are fixed, and they could probably lower the price if they had twice the numbers, which isn't ever likely in a country the size of Ireland. Though <stirring up an old hornet's nest> they'd get much more visitors if it was run on the Sunday ..

sconhome

plodder wrote: »

run on the Sunday ..

Triple time for working on the Sunday :rolleyes:

RoyMcC

Dopey question maybe but...have DCM ever considered incorporating a team relay? It's the making of the CCM. And (on a much smaller scale) the Jersey Marathon would be a non-event without getting the community involved with both a relay plus the fun run for the juniors.

plodder

RoyMcC wrote: »

Dopey question maybe but...have DCM ever considered incorporating a team relay? It's the making of the CCM. And (on a much smaller scale) the Jersey Marathon would be a non-event without getting the community involved with both a relay plus the fun run for the juniors.

No disrespect to those events, but I hope the DCM never does that.

rom

RoyMcC wrote: »

Dopey question maybe but...have DCM ever considered incorporating a team relay? It's the making of the CCM. And (on a much smaller scale) the Jersey Marathon would be a non-event without getting the community involved with both a relay plus the fun run for the juniors.

Would have to disagree. The relay is probably the reason why running Cork is not the top of my list.

ThePiedPiper

Relays, 30k races, and the like are a disaster of an addition to races in my opinion. These can just about work if the fields are 3,000 or 4,000 deep, but for larger races, it'd be a complete mess, would turn more people away.

I also don't think that trying to increase the size of the field is the answer. Dublin seems to already be quite congested, any further increases in the field might mean more waves, or two different starting locations, etc.

For the huge number of visitors brought into a city, a lot of European marathons are effectively organised by the city councils, maybe at a loss, but as a generator of tourism. Are DCM really getting the required support from the city council? It would be very irresponsible of the city to allow the marathon to become unviable.

Ruu

A relay, 10k and full should be doable really. I do the race in the link below, think there was around 20,000 total in all races last year. It is as big as it can get with the size of town, hotels and roads. The last 2 years there was a last minute call for race volunteers and they stepped up so it is all about the community.

http://illinoismarathon.com

Finnt

Sorry to go off topic but why are people against the rock and roll marathons?

RoyMcC

Interesting about the anti-relay feeling. There's a bit of it in Cork right enough. Most of the antis are worried about the fact that the full marathon is somehow devalued with the addition of 'fun runners'. Is that the reason for not expanding the DCM? Or is it for logistical reasons like RFR says?

footing

All we need is a commercial race promoter to come in from the UK or the USA and take over the DCM. Then Athletics Ireland and maybe even DCC, Bord Failte (who have told Dublin Marathon that if the race was held outside Dublin, all would be hunky dory for financial backing!!), the guards etc would be on side. Sorted!
PS: Don't forget the other work DCM does, in particular the Marathon Mission. It puts a lot back into the sport.

plodder

RoyMcC wrote: »

Interesting about the anti-relay feeling. There's a bit of it in Cork right enough. Most of the antis are worried about the fact that the full marathon is somehow devalued with the addition of 'fun runners'. Is that the reason for not expanding the DCM? Or is it for logistical reasons like RFR says?

I think it does devalue it a bit, but nothing to do with fun runners, only in terms of what the event is. Is it an individual race or a relay? It should be one or the other in my opinion.

average_runner

footing wrote: »

All we need is a commercial race promoter to come in from the UK or the USA and take over the DCM. Then Athletics Ireland and maybe even DCC, Bord Failte (who have told Dublin Marathon that if the race was held outside Dublin, all would be hunky dory for financial backing!!), the guards etc would be on side. Sorted!
PS: Don't forget the other work DCM does, in particular the Marathon Mission. It puts a lot back into the sport.

In fairness the capital should always have a marathon.

ThePiedPiper

My experiences of other races happening at the same time as marathons were these:

Connemara, I reached halfway in 1 hr 32 minutes in about 25th place, and spent the next 3-4 miles in serious congestion at the start of the half marathon. Absolute buzzkill.

Budapest last year, there was relay runners, a lot of whom had no idea of pacing or etiquette, surging ahead, stopping, looking around, running 4 abreast, slowing down, basically making a feckin nuisance of themselves. Absolutely no disrespect to anyone who wants to take part in races, but there was zero manners from a lot of these runners.

Also in Budapest, there was a 30k race with staggered start, whereby runners were meant to have started at times they considered appropriate to the speed of the runners they'd be joining in the main event, but of course it didn't happen like this. It resulted in a complete mess from 12-17km in the race, trying to pass out slower runners who really should have been waiting another half hour to start.

Anyway, that's been my experience of these type situations. They can alienate and annoy the hell out of the main marathon field. Definitely a poor option, considering the Race Series has the shorter distance races already in place.

RacoonQueen

The reason the relay does so well in Cork is because relay runner make up the majority of the field. If and when CCM kicks off to DCM levels(which I hope it does) I would expect the relay to be either dropped or seriously reduced.

Sunday is not an option for DCM(why did they drop the city from it anyway, it'll never be the 'DM') as far as I know the organisers have tried this and been unsuccessful.

TFBubendorfer

Ruubot2 wrote: »

A relay, 10k and full should be doable really. I do the race in the link below, think there was around 20,000 total in all races last year. It is as big as it can get with the size of town, hotels and roads. The last 2 years there was a last minute call for race volunteers and they stepped up so it is all about the community.

http://illinoismarathon.com

Dublin has the race series for that, people can run all sorts of distances, either in preparation for the marathon or as goal races themselves.

With the marathon as big as it is I think it could be a recipe for disaster to organise anything but the DCM itself on the day. The amount of organisation needed for that race alone is huge.

I don't know how well that race you are linking to is going, but DCM is always impeccably organised and I would hate if they jeopardised that by adding extra complexities on race day.

RoyMcC

RunForestRun wrote: »

Connemara, I reached halfway in 1 hr 32 minutes in about 25th place, and spent the next 3-4 miles in serious congestion at the start of the half marathon. Absolute buzzkill.

Sorry, I was probably part of that problem - the lead marathoners are literally running up the ditch just after Lenane.

I suppose if the relay etc are really disrupting the main race (I can't believe that's the case in Cork) then it's unacceptable. I've run in both and found the extra buzz really adding to the occasion. There again I'm way off any serious race pace so I don't have a problem with congestion.

gerard_65

I wonder why the lotto pulled out after one year. Is this not the sort of thing they are meant to support?

Ruu

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Dublin has the race series for that, people can run all sorts of distances, either in preparation for the marathon or as goal races themselves.

With the marathon as big as it is I think it could be a recipe for disaster to organise anything but the DCM itself on the day. The amount of organisation needed for that race alone is huge.

I don't know how well that race you are linking to is going, but DCM is always impeccably organised and I would hate if they jeopardised that by adding extra complexities on race day.

Makes sense, forgot about the race series. The Illinois marathon is in its fifth year and is owned by locals who bought it from a race management company to keep it in the one place. Aside from the rush to get volunteers, the race goes well. Wave starts were introduced only last year.

The Davestator

What has the lack of a sponsor got to do with RTE not showing it last year? Surely, they should be showing it regardless of a sponsor.

I'm doing Paris next week and it was 95 euro.

sideswipe

gerard_65 wrote: »

I wonder why the lotto pulled out after one year. Is this not the sort of thing they are meant to support?

AFAIK their sponsorship wasn't renewed because the government had put the license to run and operate the National lottery out to tender.

average_runner

The Davestator wrote: »

What has the lack of a sponsor got to do with RTE not showing it last year? Surely, they should be showing it regardless of a sponsor.

I'm doing Paris next week and it was 95 euro.

Doesn't make financial sense to rte.

RacoonQueen

RTÉ only show it if DM pay them to show it. The lottery sponsorship allowed the funds for that.

Colonialboy

Have DCM produced their books, to show where all the money goes.
As someone pointed out if Conne can run a succesful event capped at 3,200 then wheres all the money in DCM going.

As to people who are upset with the half-marathoners in Conne... they should have been doing the race when there were only 200 people in it , instead of jumping on the bandwagon.

Besides its the fun runners that make the event, nododys interested in running a marathon limited to elite runners, just so 200 elite runners can get pbs... you should be grateful the funnies are making up the numbers otherwise you wouldnt have a race....

RacoonQueen

Connemara doesn't have closed roads.
Hundreds(?) of guards.
The need for the same number of St. Johns ambulance.
Less entrants = less littering = no need to pay for DCC to clean up
Barriers to keep supporters off the route
More entrants = more expensive chip timing
More entrants = more portaloos
Advertising
Prizes - the number of prizes DCM gives out and the value of them is pretty huge

DCM and Conn are incomparable, in fairness.

ThePiedPiper

Colonialboy wrote: »

Have DCM produced their books, to show where all the money goes.
As someone pointed out if Conne can run a succesful event capped at 3,200 then wheres all the money in DCM going.

As to people who are upset with the half-marathoners in Conne... they should have been doing the race when there were only 200 people in it , instead of jumping on the bandwagon.

Besides its the fun runners that make the event, nododys interested in running a marathon limited to elite runners, just so 200 elite runners can get pbs... you should be grateful the funnies are making up the numbers otherwise you wouldnt have a race....

Colonialboy, just to be clear, when I ran Connemara in 2007, I was far from elite, was living in Galway at the time and running plenty of local races, and was not upset at any half-marathoners, especially given that my father, mother, brother and sister were all taking part in the half.

My point was that if an event is marketing itself as a marathon, then adding additional races to the card on the day complicates matters massively. If Conn was to ever reach 3,200 for the full and ultra combined, I would doubt the half would survive.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic. As someone else said, they are very very different events, with different cost structures, etc.

BeepBeep67

DM's sponsorship issues seem to run deeper than a primary sponsor.
Just a quick scan across city marathons in Western Europe and there's a definite approach: Primary sponsor, sports sponsor, energy drink sponsor and secondary sponsor, beyond that there a multiple smaller associations.
Looking at the DM website, most of what is listed fall into the smaller association bucket when compared with the other marathons.
It's a difficult time to obtain and retain sponsorship, but this is where the sales and marketing team should step in. It's a hard sell and value needs to be proven to any potential sponsors.
In the year of the gathering surely this is a unique opportunity to bring 1,000's of additional overseas to Ireland during the Marathon weekend and the associated economy boost - Bord Failte partnership anyone, Aer Lingus, Vintners Association, Irish Hotels Federation. Great chance to kick start something and develop a long term relationship.

Rotterdam
ABN*AMRO (Primary)
New Balance
AA drink
AD (news website)

Paris
Schneider Electric (Primary)
Asics
Powerade
Air France

London
Virgin (Primary)
Adidas
Lucozade
Holiday Inn

Amsterdam
Tata Consultancy (Primary)
Mizuno
AA drink
KLM

Barcelona
Zurich (Primary)
Asics
Powerade
laCaixa

Dublin
None (Primary)
Sports Brand(None; Elverys!)
Sports Drink (None; Tipperary Water!)

Hard Worker

On the Dublin Marathon sponsorship: all of the companies approached thought that the sponsorship was well priced. Some very big multi nationals thought that the marathon was too big for them. Others came back with different reasons for their inability to come on board.
Regarding entry fee: someone pointed out that London is cheaper. Guaranteed entries for London start at around the 200 sterling mark. Some entries cost well more than that. In fact, charities have to pay thousands just to be linked with, and use the brand.
Relay: In all my years involved with the Dublin Marathon, and I'm the longest serving committee member, I would have been totally opposed to having an associated relay. In my opinion, it takes away from the marathon itself. As an example, I was watching a marathon here in Ireland two years ago and the lead woman crossed the finish line unnoticed, because there were relay runners and half marathon runners in ahead.
I'd also like to point out that Dublin City Council are a huge supporter of the event and were instrumental in ensuring that the Dublin Marathon secured some funding from the Gathering.

menoscemo

Hard Worker wrote: »

On the Dublin Marathon sponsorship: all of the companies approached thought that the sponsorship was well priced. Some very big multi nationals thought that the marathon was too big for them. Others came back with different reasons for their inability to come on board.
Regarding entry fee: someone pointed out that London is cheaper. Guaranteed entries for London start at around the 200 sterling mark. Some entries cost well more than that. In fact, charities have to pay thousands just to be linked with, and use the brand.
Relay: In all my years involved with the Dublin Marathon, and I'm the longest serving committee member, I would have been totally opposed to having an associated relay. In my opinion, it takes away from the marathon itself. As an example, I was watching a marathon here in Ireland two years ago and the lead woman crossed the finish line unnoticed, because there were relay runners and half marathon runners in ahead.
I'd also like to point out that Dublin City Council are a huge supporter of the event and were instrumental in ensuring that the Dublin Marathon secured some funding from the Gathering.

I agree with all the above, except the bit about guaranteed entries for london. GFA entries cost £20.

Hard Worker

menoscemo wrote: »

I agree with all the above, except the bit about guaranteed entries for london. GFA entries cost £20.

Yes, but not everyone is at GFA level. What I mean is that an ordinary Joe or Mary who is not a championship runner or GFA will pay big bucks to enter. Probably 5% of the field can avail of a cheap entry. The other 95% cannot.

RacoonQueen

How much is London is you get in through the lottery?

I complain about €75 for DCM but only because the price has risen, would make no difference to me if it was that fee when I started running it.

Shame to see the pointy end of the field suffer due to lack of sponsorship(if it does), when huge improvements have been made over the last few years. If companies think the event is too big for them it's further evidence of how the entire race series has become a victim of its own success.

rom

Personally DCM is the only marathon in Ireland that I would be willing to stake 6 months of training on. 5 or 10 euro extra doesn't matter to me but that the race is done in the utmost professional manner. Having to worry about running on an open road/ water stations/ lack of sports drink/ toilets/ timing/ starting on time etc are all things I can do without. Every concert in Ireland cost considerably less than they do elsewhere.

tHE vAGGABOND

Every concert in Ireland cost considerably less than they do elsewhere.

Assume you mean more

rom

In respect to RTE not putting it on the box. Operation transformation is a big success in Jan-Feb time frame. AAI members help out with this. Major supermarkets are involved with the "healthy eating" and lots of AAI members help out in putting these races on. RTE should not be allowed to cherry pick what they put on based on what will give them better ratings. If they are not willing to give a representative discount in put on the marathon on TV then AAI members should be asked not to help out with RTE quest for ratings and subsequent advertising revenue.

huskerdu

rom wrote: »

In respect to RTE not putting it on the box. Operation transformation is a big success in Jan-Feb time frame. AAI members help out with this. Major supermarkets are involved with the "healthy eating" and lots of AAI members help out in putting these races on. RTE should not be allowed to cherry pick what they put on based on what will give them better ratings. If they are not willing to give a representative discount in put on the marathon on TV then AAI members should be asked not to help out with RTE quest for ratings and subsequent advertising revenue.

The fact is that the cost of televising the marathon, which involves multiple outside broadcast units is huge compared to the advertising revenue that it will attract.

They agree to buy it from an independent production company for a fee. The difference between the fee that RTE pay and cost of making it, was made up by the sponsor.

RTE are expected the cover an awful lot of sport on a very small budget and the marathon is only important to a small number of people.

I am first in line to whinge about RTE, but I am not going to boycoyt them over the marathon.

rom

With the yorkshire marathon getting sold out in Jan and the liverpool marathon canceled I hope DCM don't miss a trick with this. With Dublin - Liverpool ferry route shouldn't there be a much more uk based runners than there is currently ? There does seem much more marathons in the south of the UK around that time of year.

EauRouge79

Despite the arguements above and the costs involved to RTE I dont buy the argument that they cant produce something worth watching.
Were not looking for Helicopters, big production, even live coverage, just something to watch on the telly when you get home that evening with your aching legs. A summary of how the elite/national championship races pannned out and a few roadside interviews with the rest of us "fun runners". 12,000+ participants, most of them locals who have trained hard for months and the same amount of interested family members would surely be willing viewers.

Im sitting here on another Bank Holiday Monday and nothing but sh**e on the telly.

Cabaal

Ok. Whatever about doing the whole thing on rte, what about a decent highlights show? 30min job or 60min job.

Surely this would cost less and the marathon deserves more then a 30sec bit on the 6 o clock news

rom

EauRouge79 wrote: »

Despite the arguements above and the costs involved to RTE I dont buy the argument that they cant produce something worth watching.
Were not looking for Helicopters, big production, even live coverage, just something to watch on the telly when you get home that evening with your aching legs. A summary of how the elite/national championship races pannned out and a few roadside interviews with the rest of us "fun runners". 12,000+ participants, most of them locals who have trained hard for months and the same amount of interested family members would surely be willing viewers.

Im sitting here on another Bank Holiday Monday and nothing but sh**e on the telly.

I bet something of this kind of format didn't cost the 1M price tag that the DCM cost to do. No need for it to be live. Most people who actually running the race or spectating want to actually watch it http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iwQ5wC_0Hdk

tHE vAGGABOND

I would not miss the TV coverage to be honest, the only good thing about it would be that it would be good for sponsors. I really dont think TV coverage does a lot for participation levels either.

But a couple of years ago when they had it, the TV coverage was bloody awful