The 'War' on drugs continues

guymartin

http://www.thejournal.ie/six-arrested-and-cannabis-plants-seized-in-south-east-search-849786-Mar2013/

Up2NoGood

6 more jobs lost, jeysus the SE can't get a break!

mccarthy37

War on drugs what a laugh. Cannabis would be as harmful as alcohol. Rarely do we hear of seizures of Cocaine or Heroin. Easy to up the detection figures catching growers of a bit of hash when the real hard drugs are on sale in some places quite openly. I don't use or condone drug use of any kind except alcohol which is legally killing an awful lot of people.

guymartin

It is a joke alright, Why is cannabis illegal?

I just don't get it. More to the point if we live in a democracy why can't we vote on the issue.

Dicky Pride

Despite what it says in that report, there were no seizures in waterford.

Sully

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Despite what it says in that report, there were no seizures in waterford.

Could have sworn WLR reported the same today, maybe I misheard?

Dicky Pride

According to the gardai there were no homes in Waterford raided.

0rt

Cannabis is a plant.
Drugs are synthesised., refined or processed.

Finnbar01

The war on drugs is self defeating.

Growers will just up their game to avoid detection.

The more 'sucesses' the Gardaí have in the war on drugs the more likely the war on drugs will fail.

BTW, I do not sondone drug taking.

Hoffmans

people harpin on " ah shur its only a bit of grass etc,, , but they dont realize the profits from the grow houses are used to buy in the harder stuff which is aplenty in the town unfortunately.... anyway cannibis is a proven gateway drug.

im invisible

Hoffmans wrote: »

.... anyway cannibis is a proven gateway drug.

just like alcohol and tobacco
and coffee

Hoffmans

im invisible wrote: »

just like alcohol and tobacco
and coffee

whats your point? alcohol is a gateway drug to alcholism or in moderation a good night out. Tobacco could be a gateway to lung cancer,
however cannabis is proven to lead on to class b then class a drug use and then likely death in some cases.

counterpointaud

Hoffmans wrote: »

whats your point? alcohol is a gateway drug to alcholism or in moderation a good night out. Tobacco could be a gateway to lung cancer,
however cannabis is proven to lead on to class b then class a drug use and then likely death in some cases.

I think you may be misunderstanding the term 'gateway' when used in this context.

People who are heroin addicts are likely to have used alcohol before using heroin.
People who are heroin addicts are likely to have smoked cannabis before using heroin.

Therefore both can be said to be gateway drugs.

Personally I think the term is meaningless, and just used by to attach something that sounds scientific to the anti-drugs message.

The fact is that it is generally easier to get both alcohol and cannabis than heroin in most places, and most people tend to try 'softer' drugs first anyway.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Hoffmans wrote: »

anyway cannibis is a proven gateway drug.

Must...not...bite..

Professey Chin

Hoffmans wrote: »

people harpin on " ah shur its only a bit of grass etc,, , but they dont realize the profits from the grow houses are used to buy in the harder stuff which is aplenty in the town unfortunately.... anyway cannibis is a proven gateway drug.

Id like to see this proof of yours....

0rt

Hoffmans wrote: »

people harpin on " ah shur its only a bit of grass etc,, , but they dont realize the profits from the grow houses are used to buy in the harder stuff which is aplenty in the town unfortunately.... anyway cannibis is a proven gateway drug.

your a moron.

do some research, a simple google brings up the following.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_drug_theory

heres a little extract from it.

"The gateway drug theory (also called my button gateway theory, gateway hypothesis and gateway effect) is the theory that the use of less deleterious drugs may lead to a future risk of using more dangerous hard drugs and/or crime.[1] It is often attributed to the use of several drugs, including tobacco,[2] alcohol,[3] and cannabis.
While some research shows that many hard drug users used cannabis or alcohol before moving on to the harder substances, other research shows that some serious drug abusers have used other drugs before using cannabis or alcohol.[4] The former is particularly evident in individual drug-abuse histories which tend to show that "hard drug" users do progress from one drug to another.[5]"

Dicky Pride

"you're"

Enda Kenny would preform an abortion on live telly before cannabis gets legalised here, the drink lobby is too strong and the cannabis lobby are like you know... whatever maaaaan.

Potential-Monke

Cannabis remaining illegal in this country does more damage than good. The majority of "drug users" would be cannabis users. That's all they want, and all they'll ever want. It's not the illegality of it that makes them want it, it's the effects, be they medicinal or pleasure. Keeping cannabis illegal is keeping producers busy producing an ever increasing demand, while filling the pockets of criminals.

Cannabis is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol, and the many arguments against the legalisation of it can be applied at least ten fold to alcohol and tobacco. According to that article, 2 deaths have been "associated" with cannabis use, while there is over 150,000 every year in the UK associated to alcohol and tobacco (i put associated in inverted commas as they are not directly responsible). Due to the demand of cannabis, producers (read: criminals) are spraying it with god knows what in order to increase weight and affect potency, which is dangerous. Legalisation of it would lead to controlled production, which leads to pure cannabis, and guaranteed safety of use (you cannot overdose on cannabis). This would in turn lead to a reduction in the profit criminals make. And, if legalised, treat it like alcohol and have the warnings associated to it, with the same penalties for alcohol related crime.

But, there are too many against the legalisation of it, too many big wigs with their hands in the products which cannabis would replace. Cannabis is not just for its effects, it is also an excellent replacement to cotton, concrete, fish oil supplements, paper, body lotions, fabric, textiles, rope, and plastic. The cotton, paper and fuel industries alone would be enough to prevent cannabis being made illegal, so i doubt any of us will see it in our lifetimes, but here's hoping!

Hoffmans

0rt wrote: »

research shows that many hard drug users used cannabis or alcohol before moving on to the harder substances .[5]"

nuff said....

mikom

Originally Posted by 0rt
research shows that many hard drug users used cannabis or alcohol before moving on to the harder substances .[5]"

Hoffmans wrote: »

nuff said....

They were also breast fed.
How do you figure that correlation into the mix Hoffmans.

Prohibition is the biggest gateway you will find.


Most people in 1920's and 30's United States would have no dealings with the gangster Al Capone had it not been for prohibition.
Think that one over.

O Riain

Hoffmans wrote: »

nuff said....

Research also showed they had a tin of beans before moving onto harder drugs.

Tragamin2k2

had a smoke last week and to be honest i could not stop thinking about taking heroin.

anyone up for arguing religion?

0rt

I retract my statement calling you a moron Hoffmans.. that wasnt nice of me.

If you want to have a look at some stats and proper opinions, watch the documentary 'breaking the taboo' it can be found in many places online.. their website is http://www.breakingthetaboo.info/ and were showing the documentary for free for the first month..

Heres a wee write up
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturevideo/filmvideo/9703323/Breaking-the-Taboo-trailer-Bill-Clinton-and-Morgan-Freeman-back-anti-war-on-drugs-documentary.html

worth the watch regardless if you are pro or against cannabis as its deals with things on a broader level.

Hoffmans

Its simple cannabis is illegal with good reason, and just looking at the antics of the irish poster boy in favour of legalising it, mr ming it wont be getting decriminalised any time soon.

mikom

Hoffmans wrote: »

Its simple cannabis is illegal with good reason,

Good reason?

Please state the original reason it was made illegal in Ireland.

zenno

Let the citizens of Ireland have a vote on it, and if they vote no, then we keep voting till they vote yes, simples.

zenno

Hoffmans wrote: »

Its simple cannabis is illegal with good reason, and just looking at the antics of the irish poster boy in favour of legalising it, mr ming it wont be getting decriminalised any time soon.

I couldn't give an arse whether cannabis is illegal in the eye's of old farts in government, i'll just keep on smoking it regardless. I make my own rules.

kryogen

zenno wrote: »

I couldn't give an arse whether cannabis is illegal in the eye's of old farts in government, i'll just keep on smoking it regardless. I make my own rules.

Dicky Pride

If the government were clever about this they could make some serious money out of legalising cannabis. I have never smoked anything of any description in my life so I'm no expert on the subject but from experience with dealing with others I'd much rather spend an evening with someone who is stoned than with someone who is pissed on drink, and totally unable to handle it.

sparkling sea

Hoffmans wrote: »

whats your point? alcohol is a gateway drug to alcholism or in moderation a good night out. Tobacco could be a gateway to lung cancer,
however cannabis is proven to lead on to class b then class a drug use and then likely death in some cases.

Just as alcohol prohibition was futile in the United States in the early years of the last century, so the prohibition of drugs is futile today

The policy of prohibition, which places the criminal justice system at the heart of drug control and labels all drugs as equally harmful, while accepting the legal sale and consumption of alcohol, nicotine and prescription drugs, cannot work and clearly has not worked, either in Ireland or anywhere elsS. It alienates young people from adult messages about drugs, which they see as hypocritical, and inhibits a fact-based and rational discussion about drug use.

Irish society glamorizes alcohol while demonizing drugs. In Ireland, more people are killed by cigarette smoking and drunk driving than drugs. These are indisputable facts, yet calls for the prohibition of cigarettes, alcohol or driving are almost unheard of.

You state "cannabis is proven to lead on to class b then class a drug use and then likely death in some cases". Where's the proof and be really interested in seeing these studies. I am not for a minute suggesting marijuana is not harmful but alcohol is also implicated as gateway drug . Magazine images of very skinny girls and boys are also implicated in the use of cocaine - should they be banned?

The latest report from the Beckley Foundation said that although marijuana use can have negative effects on physical and mental health, “in terms of relative harms it is considerably less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.” The Foundation's Global Cannabis Commission said that banning marijuana has little effect on either the supply or demand for the drug, and instead leads to user criminalization.

The research claimed only two deaths worldwide could be directly attributed to marijuana each year, while 150,000 people in Britain die from alcohol and tobacco. “Many of the harms associated with cannabis use are the result of prohibition itself,” the report stated, “particularly the social harms arising from arrest and imprisonment.”

sparkling sea

Hoffmans wrote: »

Its simple cannabis is illegal with good reason, and just looking at the antics of the irish poster boy in favour of legalising it, mr ming it wont be getting decriminalised any time soon.

Its highly unlikely that alcohol would be legalised now either - you can't reasonable argue that its OK to criminalise someone for making, what appears to be the slightly less harmful choice of using cannabis.

The information below is from the Transform the British drug policy reform centre and puts forward the reasons why drugs actually need to be legalised.
1 Address the real issues
For too long policy makers have used prohibition as a smoke screen to avoid addressing the social and economic factors that lead people to use drugs. Most illegal and legal drug use is recreational. Poverty and despair are at the root of most problematic drug use and it is only by addressing these underlying causes that we can hope to significantly decrease the number of problematic users.

2 Eliminate the criminal market place
The market for drugs is demand-led and millions of people demand illegal drugs. Making the production, supply and use of some drugs illegal creates a vacuum into which organised crime moves. The profits are worth billions of pounds. Legalisation forces organised crime from the drugs trade, starves them of income and enables us to regulate and control the market (i.e. prescription, licensing, laws on sales to minors, advertising regulations etc.)

3 Massively reduce crime
The price of illegal drugs is determined by a demand-led, unregulated market. Using illegal drugs is very expensive. This means that some dependent users resort to stealing to raise funds (accounting for 50% of UK property crime - estimated at £2 billion a year). Most of the violence associated with illegal drug dealing is caused by its illegality

Legalisation would enable us to regulate the market, determine a much lower price and remove users need to raise funds through crime. Our legal system would be freed up and our prison population dramatically reduced, saving billions. Because of the low price, cigarette smokers do not have to steal to support their habits. There is also no violence associated with the legal tobacco market.

4 Drug users are a majority
Recent research shows that nearly half of all 15-16 year olds have used an illegal drug. Up to one and a half million people use ecstasy every weekend. Amongst young people, illegal drug use is seen as normal. Intensifying the 'war on drugs' is not reducing demand. In Holland, where cannabis laws are far less harsh, drug usage is amongst the lowest in Europe.

Legalisation accepts that drug use is normal and that it is a social issue, not a criminal justice one. How we deal with it is up to all of us to decide.

In 1970 there were 9000 convictions or cautions for drug offences and 15% of young people had used an illegal drug. In 1995 the figures were 94 000 and 45%. Prohibition doesn't work.

5 Provide access to truthful information and education
A wealth of disinformation about drugs and drug use is given to us by ignorant and prejudiced policy-makers and media who peddle myths upon lies for their own ends. This creates many of the risks and dangers associated with drug use.

Legalisation would help us to disseminate open, honest and truthful information to users and non-users to help them to make decisions about whether and how to use. We could begin research again on presently illicit drugs to discover all their uses and effects - both positive and negative.

6 Make all drug use safer
Prohibition has led to the stigmatisation and marginalisation of drug users. Countries that operate ultra-prohibitionist policies have very high rates of HIV infection amongst injecting users. Hepatitis C rates amongst users in the UK are increasing substantially.

In the UK in the '80's clean needles for injecting users and safer sex education for young people were made available in response to fears of HIV. Harm reduction policies are in direct opposition to prohibitionist laws.



7 Restore our rights and responsibilities
Prohibition unnecessarily criminalises millions of otherwise law-abiding people. It removes the responsibility for distribution of drugs from policy makers and hands it over to unregulated, sometimes violent dealers.

Legalisation restores our right to use drugs responsibly to change the way we think and feel. It enables controls and regulations to be put in place to protect the vulnerable.

8 Race and Drugs
Black people are over ten times more likely to be imprisoned for drug offences than whites. Arrests for drug offences are notoriously discretionary allowing enforcement to easily target a particular ethnic group. Prohibition has fostered this stereotyping of black people.

Legalisation removes a whole set of laws that are used to disproportionately bring black people into contact with the criminal justice system. It would help to redress the over representation of black drug offenders in prison.

9 Global Implications
The illegal drugs market makes up 8% of all world trade (around £300 billion a year). Whole countries are run under the corrupting influence of drug cartels. Prohibition also enables developed countries to wield vast political power over producer nations under the auspices of drug control programmes.

Legalisation returns lost revenue to the legitimate taxed economy and removes some of the high-level corruption. It also removes a tool of political interference by foreign countries against producer nations.

10 Prohibition doesn't work
There is no evidence to show that prohibition is succeeding. The question we must ask ourselves is, "What are the benefits of criminalising any drug?" If, after examining all the available evidence, we find that the costs outweigh the benefits, then we must seek an alternative policy.

Legalisation is not a cure-all but it does allow us to address many of the problems associated with drug use, and those created by prohibition. The time has come for an effective and pragmatic drug policy.



"If the (drug) problem continues advancing as it is at the moment, we're going to be faced with some very frightening options. Either you have a massive reduction in civil rights or you have to look at some radical solutions. The issue has to be, can a criminal justice system solve this particular problem?"

Hoffmans

look you can copy and paste stuff till the cows come home, it makes no difference what studies went on in the uk or usa here in ireland the law is the law and its clear on illegal drugs ,
that is unless your stoned and then most things become unclear including how to hold onto a job.......

Not The Real Scarecrow

Hoffmans wrote: »

look you can copy and paste stuff till the cows come home, it makes no difference what studies went on in the uk or usa here in ireland the law is the law and its clear on illegal drugs ,
that is unless your stoned and then most things become unclear including how to hold onto a job.......

I take it you've never done any type of illegal drug then. I have never met anyone who lost a job because of cannibis use but know a few who lost it because of alcohol.How many days do peole miss in work a year from hang overs or alcohol related sicknesses?I'm sure if you compared it to cannibis users it would be dramatically higher(no pun intended).I don't smoke any more but when I did I never missed a day from work because of it nor did it effect my professional life in any negative fashion. I'm sure thats the same for most users. Like any drug if its abused it'll **** you up but if you're going to be stupid enough to let that happen, then you get what you deserve.
Studies have shown that peole who smoke are more productive workers than those who don't as they use the promise of a smoke as an incentive to work.
Unless you actually have any experience with the drug you shouldn't really be making any ridiculous unfounded comments, you're just making your self look like an idiot at this stage with stereotypical sit com tropes of stoners from the 70's. Ill founded nonsense based on other peoples flawed logic.Do your self a favour and smoke a bit of weed, take some acid and listen to Bill Hicks.

sparkling sea

Hoffmans wrote: »

look you can copy and paste stuff till the cows come home, it makes no difference what studies went on in the uk or usa here in ireland the law is the law and its clear on illegal drugs ,
that is unless your stoned and then most things become unclear including how to hold onto a job.......

Actually its not as clear as you may think; for example it is not illegal to ingest illegal drugs - its just illegal to supply or possess them.

I get the feeling that you are not particularly interested in the legality etc. You have thrown in a statement on gateways and cannabis but you haven't backed it up with any evidence?? The facts don't interest you!!

You appear to want to state an obvious fact - illegal drugs are illegal. You don't address the issue of whether they are illegal because they are wrong or wrong because they are illegal.

sparkling sea

Meatwad wrote: »

Studies have shown that peole who smoke are more productive workers than those who don't as they use the promise of a smoke as an incentive to work.
Unless you actually have any experience with the drug you shouldn't really be making any ridiculous unfounded comments, you're just making your self look like an idiot at this stage with stereotypical sit com tropes of stoners from the 70's. Ill founded nonsense based on other peoples flawed logic.Do your self a favour and smoke a bit of weed, take some acid and listen to Bill Hicks.

Any chance you could name the studies that explicitly state a correlation between smoking and increased productivity - would really like to take a look?

You don't really need to take ilegal drugs to know they are bad for you - all drugs are bad for you when they are taken with out any imposed quality controls, etc - even vitamins.

Tragamin2k2

lads, just stop ok. if you argue for legalization, you look like a fool. if you argue against, you look like an even bigger fool. leave people live in their gateway drug bubbles if they want. everything affects everyone differently. 80 percent of schizophrenics smoke tobacco, why no calls for banning tobacco? eventually the majority of people will get over the moral panic and all will be well. its already happened in parts of US and Canada. it will be a while for Ireland though, since the main image of cannabis smokers is the boys skinnin up outside tesco.

guymartin what did you expect starting this thread? 5 or 6 fair play to our boys in blue posts? every cannabis thread on boards descends into a war of who can copypaste the most biased drivel.

zenno

May the cannabis bud live on for another 6 thousand years regardless of evil men to destroy this beautiful herb.

The only herb on this planet that can make a man/woman think positively and have the conciousness to love it's surroundings.

kryogen

Ecstasy used to make me think positively, and I thoroughly enjoyed all my surroundings.

Should be legal too by this reasoning?

zenno

kryogen wrote: »

Ecstasy used to make me think positively, and I thoroughly enjoyed all my surroundings.

Should be legal too by this reasoning?

There is a huge difference.

The Ecstasy is man-made via chemical production and it has no correlation in any way to a natural herb that grows in the wild.

7upfree

guymartin wrote: »

It is a joke alright, Why is cannabis illegal?

I just don't get it. More to the point if we live in a democracy why can't we vote on the issue.

I suppose the thinking is that if you legalise cannabis, then it will be "why isn't cocaine legal" and so on.

7upfree

zenno wrote: »

May the cannabis bud live on for another 6 thousand years regardless of evil men to destroy this beautiful herb.

The only herb on this planet that can make a man/woman think positively and have the conciousness to love it's surroundings.

:eek::D

zenno

7upfree wrote: »

:eek::D

Potential-Monke

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

lads, just stop ok. if you argue for legalization, you look like a fool. if you argue against, you look like an even bigger fool. leave people live in their gateway drug bubbles if they want. everything affects everyone differently. 80 percent of schizophrenics smoke tobacco, why no calls for banning tobacco? eventually the majority of people will get over the moral panic and all will be well. its already happened in parts of US and Canada. it will be a while for Ireland though, since the main image of cannabis smokers is the boys skinnin up outside tesco.

guymartin what did you expect starting this thread? 5 or 6 fair play to our boys in blue posts? every cannabis thread on boards descends into a war of who can copypaste the most biased drivel.

But is this not a discussion thread? If someone comes on here, and reads something that will actually educate them on the effects of cannabis then it's a win thread already. I'm not saying that they have to now be pro-cannabis, but if it stops people thinking the crazy "cannabis will kill you" attitude, and it's associated falsities, then some good has come from it.