Amateur boxing: ten point rounds and no headgear

raymann

whats people thoughts on this? i think its definitely going to prepare people for the professional game much better, that much is obvious. i was told the changes were made because fighters were wary to commit long periods of time waiting for olympics/worlds etc knowing that they could lose due to dodgy scoring.

the ten point system should address many problems such as bunches of punches resulting in a small, or sometimes no score. all in all a definite positive move for me.

as far as headgear goes im not so sure. i was unlucky, my heads a weird shape so i found myself adjusting it between punches, but i didnt have the blind spots that others complain about. even saying that though i wouldnt even want to spar without one.

i think this favours more aggressive fighting which hopefully is suited to our irish amateurs.

kaiserjim

raymann wrote: »

whats people thoughts on this? i think its definitely going to prepare people for the professional game much better, that much is obvious. i was told the changes were made because fighters were wary to commit long periods of time waiting for olympics/worlds etc knowing that they could lose due to dodgy scoring.

the ten point system should address many problems such as bunches of punches resulting in a small, or sometimes no score. all in all a definite positive move for me.

as far as headgear goes im not so sure. i was unlucky, my heads a weird shape so i found myself adjusting it between punches, but i didnt have the blind spots that others complain about. even saying that though i wouldnt even want to spar without one.

i think this favours more aggressive fighting which hopefully is suited to our irish amateurs.

The ten point must scoring system would see a rise in bogey decisions. There's no accountability.

Daroxtar

Its a backward step IMO. It leaves the judging wide open to bad/corrupt decisions.

RE it being more suited to aggressive Irish boxers? Half our medals came from guys with counter punching and defensive talents, we'd have had only Katies , maybe Paddy Barnes, medal if this scoring system was in place in London.

Littlehorny

Was the criticism of the old points system not that it favoured fast pitter patter type punching and no real reward for landing the harder shots? Think the helmets have been done away with because medically they have been proven to do more harm than good, in that they make your head heavier and can impair your vision from some angles, personally am glad to see helmets gone, apart from you get no extra protection they are sweaty, uncomfortable yokes!

mathepac

I'm not happy.

The pro game has had the 10-point must system for years and yet is as corrupt as ****.

I accept the annoyance caused by the amateur head-gear (also used by pros sparring) but there are certain kinds of serious injury the head-gear did help prevent:

• Injuries from head clashes - cuts, gashes and concussive injuries
• It provided padding around the temple area where concussive strikes on fragile bone could have catastrophic consequences
• The eyes and eyebrows were protected from cuts (I accept at the expense of some visual impairment by the gear)

I don't think the answer was to scrap the gear completely, surely better design would have helped?

Disappointed with the moves.

cowzerp

Computer scoring doesn't work and never did, boxing should be scored on punches landed, power of punches, skill, defense, ring craft and aggression

10-9 sorts this assuming judges are honest, police the judging and you're sorted.

Has this been confirmed?

cowzerp

http://sportsnewsireland.com/boxing/boxing_irish/new-regulations-introduced-by-amateur-boxings-governing-body-2013-03-23/

Deadly, way better-I only wish it was like that when I was at my peak

cowzerp

I wear head guards sparring to avoid cuts and that's what their good for, as far as concussive blows, Did you read the article? Head guards can increase concussion due to the larger area to land on you get more blows, the wsb has a lower % of concussion than regular Boxing, the scoring is the real important change here, let fencers fence and boxers box.

mathepac wrote: »

I'm not happy.

The pro game has had the 10-point must system for years and yet is as corrupt as ****.

I accept the annoyance caused by the amateur head-gear (also used by pros sparring) but there are certain kinds of serious injury the head-gear did help prevent:

• Injuries from head clashes - cuts, gashes and concussive injuries
• It provided padding around the temple area where concussive strikes on fragile bone could have catastrophic consequences
• The eyes and eyebrows were protected from cuts (I accept at the expense of some visual impairment by the gear)

I don't think the answer was to scrap the gear completely, surely better design would have helped?

Disappointed with the moves.

kaiserjim

other important point is the launch of a new scoring system. The new system used across all programs will be based on the ‘Ten Point Must-System’ with five judges around the ring. Out of these five judges, only the scores of three of them, which will be randomly drawn by a computer, will be taken into account. Nobody will know until the end of the bout which judges’ scores will have been considered. In addition, scores will only be revealed at the end of each bout.

So in the case of a 3:2 decision from the five judges. A computer will randomly pick 3 judges which could randomly result in a unanimous 3:0 win to one boxer or a 2:1 win to either. Coin flip???

The 10-9 system may (may!) be more open to open to abuse but it's usually more clear-cut abuse. I'm in favour of the scoring change anyway and am glad to see the removal of equipment that hasn't been shown to provide any benefit to the user.

boxer.fan

Great improvements altogether.

No scoring system is perfect. The computer points scoring system has been shown to be fairly harsh at times, more so than the ten point must system IMO.

Headguards are only useful for one thing - preventing cuts during sparring sessions. As said before they make the head a larger target, make the head heavier, are uncomfortable & offer no increased protection between the ears.

cowzerp

kaiserjim wrote: »

Out of these five judges, only the scores of three of them, which will be randomly drawn by a computer, will be taken into account. Nobody will know until the end of the bout which judges’ scores will have been considered.

Have to say randomly picking scores is a bad idea, will mean blatant cheating scores can be randomly picked, should just base it on all judges or the 3 closest scoring as they most likely are the most close.

Computers have screwed boxing for so long let's just leave them out of it totally

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Computer scoring doesn't work and never did, boxing should be scored on punches landed, power of punches, skill, defense, ring craft and aggression

10-9 sorts this assuming judges are honest, police the judging and you're sorted.

Has this been confirmed?

You have covered all the areas of what makes a rd of boxing.

Not in full agreement on the headgear removal. I guess the main reason for this is so that the audince can associate with the boxers. They want the sport to grow and prosper, and recognition of the boxers and familiarity is key.

FTA69

I actually prefer sparring without a headguard and bar guarding against the cuts and scrapes I find they actually provide little in the way of protection when you ship a heavy punch. People seem to think that having your head padded deters from the concussive effects of a punch; it doesn't in my opinion. I also think they cloud my vision a lot; two weeks ago I stuck on this ridiculous yoke with a nose bar and cheek protector and everything on it, I looked like Darth Vadar with it on and had difficulty seeing some shots coming. However I'm not competeing so it's all the one for me whether I wear one or not to be honest, but elite amateurs should be well able to box without one on and it's the elite whom these rules are aimed at really.

cowzerp

FTA69 wrote: »

I actually prefer sparring without a headguard and bar guarding against the cuts and scrapes I find they actually provide little in the way of protection when you ship a heavy punch. People seem to think that having your head padded deters from the concussive effects of a punch; it doesn't in my opinion. I also think they cloud my vision a lot; two weeks ago I stuck on this ridiculous yoke with a nose bar and cheek protector and everything on it, I looked like Darth Vadar with it on and had difficulty seeing some shots coming. However I'm not competeing so it's all the one for me whether I wear one or not to be honest, but elite amateurs should be well able to box without one on and it's the elite whom these rules are aimed at really.

The facts are damning, More concussions occur with headgears used, This is mainly due to the fact there is a bigger target so easier to hit-Scrapes and Cuts are definetly the main reason to wear head guards, Funny thing is the AIBA know this and still choose to leave Girls and kids wearing them even though it's clearly for politically correct reasons rather than actual safety.

FTA69

cowzerp wrote: »

The facts are damning, More concussions occur with headgears used, This is mainly due to the fact there is a bigger target so easier to hit-Scrapes and Cuts are definetly the main reason to wear head guards, Funny thing is the AIBA know this and still choose to leave Girls and kids wearing them even though it's clearly for politically correct reasons rather than actual safety.

Chalk it down, you're actually far more likely to get a concussion from getting a belt with a gloved fist on a headguard than you are a bare-handed punch. Apparently deaths in boxing were very rare in the bare-knuckle days with deaths skyrocketing as gloves were introduced. Concussions occur when the brain gets bruised, something which will happen regardless of a piece of thick foam on your head.

(I'm not advocating this by the way, I imagine they were left with faces like melted candles.)

walshb

Headgear was brought in in the last 25 or so years. I am sure it was brought in after reserach and studies. So, I don't think anyone can say that a headgear is of no help or is not beneficial as regards head trauma or concussion. Any neurologists here? I'd like to hear their views on whether or not a headgear provised any extra protection from a head shot.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Headgear was brought in in the last 25 or so years. I am sure it was brought in after reserach and studies. So, I don't think anyone can say that a headgear is of no help or is not beneficial as regards head trauma or concussion. Any neurologists here? I'd like to hear their views on whether or not a headgear provised any extra protection from a head shot.

It wasn't brought in due to research! how can you research it without bringing it in 1st and testing results, They have done that recently with the wsb series and the % of concussion is almost half what it is with Headgears.

Like in MMA, they brought gloves in to make it safer, net result, more KO'S.

Littlehorny

FTA69 wrote: »

Chalk it down, you're actually far more likely to get a concussion from getting a belt with a gloved fist on a headguard than you are a bare-handed punch. Apparently deaths in boxing were very rare in the bare-knuckle days with deaths skyrocketing as gloves were introduced. Concussions occur when the brain gets bruised, something which will happen regardless of a piece of thick foam on your head.

(I'm not advocating this by the way, I imagine they were left with faces like melted candles.)

Agree with you there, bare knuckle fighters years ago must have been left covered in cuts and bruises, but as i seen in a documentary a few years ago, gloves are not there to protect the face, they are there to protect the hands.
Also another problem of gloves is they make the fist heavier and more concussive. But at least these days refs stop fights earlier and there is always medical people in attendence at fights nowadays.

efb

Neurologists are against boxing full stop.

colly10

I'm for getting rid of the headgear, I think it impares your vision a little and it's helps the fencers rather than the punchers. The only think i like about the headgear is that it protects from headbuts and they're very easy to slip in "accidentally"

I also far prefer the 10 point system (if they score fairly), the fighter that dominates the round should win it rather than the fighter that sneaks in the most punches. The points system doesn't take power into account, the round should always go to who the judge would prefer to be.

efb

colly10 wrote: »

I also far prefer the 10 point system (if they score fairly), the fighter that dominates the round should win it rather than the fighter that sneaks in the most punches. The points system doesn't take power into account, the round should always go to who the judge would prefer to be.

Thats very subjective and open to abuse