Shared driveway headaches

hotpotato

We are buying an old building and dividing into two houses. There is a small area out the front for parking and we have agreed that while the ideal scenario is that we have it split physically in two ultimately, we are applying for it to be a communal property in the deeds. It has been explained to us that down the line we can apply for a different planning permission to get the front driveway changed and what is on the deeds is non relevant. In order to get a car into the existing gate you have to drive on both potential halves (it's small).

The reason we are not applying for the dual driveway is that the architect feels we are pushing the boat out as it is with planning permission and it will antagonise the planners further if we go for something else at this stage. Better not annoy especially since a relatively recent request was refused. It's a protected building.

Communal area on deeds:
So say we get sticklers for new neighbours in the future, they won't be able to state that we have no right to access our half if we've gone for the communal option.

If we go for the communal option then what's to stop a nasty neighbour running roughshod over the verbal agreement and parking on our side too as they are legally entitled to it as they own it. Or even worse, the casual "ah sure they won't mind" that happens far too often and is enough to get your blood pressure up. Happened to my sister-very common. Human nature.

Splitting area on deeds:
If the deeds go in as saying we are splitting the driveway in half then neither of us could potentially get our cars in if there was a falling out.

If planning falls through (as it might well do) them where would that leave us if we have gone for splitting the driveway legally?

Would it not add further weight to our argument with the planners......that the land has been legally divided in the deeds so pretty please can we have two driveways?

I would think it more likely that the scenario where a neighbour parks on the wrong side/tells people visiting to park anywhere would be more of a concern than a neighbour stalling access to the driveway based on the fact that their area would be encroached upon (this would obviously mean that they couldn't get a car in either!). In which case why aren't we going for the legally splitting of the driveway in the deeds?

I cannot imagine anything worse that having to worry that my house visitors are parked on the wrong side of the communal area when they come to visit. I can't imagine anything more awkward than having my mother take the side off the neighbours car due to dodgy reversing. It's so important that we get this driveway divided physically.

Does anyone foresee a problem with the deeds going ahead as communal?Does anyone have any advice based on personal experience .Can anyone foresee any problems with the way we are going ahead?

Ta

muffler

Your post is leaning more towards looking for an answer to a legal issue (potentially). We don't deal with this type of query in the Construction & Planning forum so I'll move this over to the Legal Discussion forum

Grolschevik

muffler wrote: »

I'll move this over to the Legal Discussion forum

Where the most likely response will be "ask your solicitor".

johnnyskeleton

Funny that you have no problem paying for an architect, but not for a solicitor.

muffler

Grolschevik wrote: »

Where the most likely response will be "ask your solicitor".

If that's the response the OP is going to get here in the legal discussion forum you surely didn't think that I was going to allow the query in my forum?

BRAIN FEEDs

muffler wrote: »

If that's the response the OP is going to get here in the legal discussion forum you surely didn't think that I was going to allow the query in my forum?

:eek:

"my forum"

ffs....... loosing the run of yourself?

Grolschevik

muffler wrote: »

If that's the response the OP is going to get here in the legal discussion forum you surely didn't think that I was going to allow the query in my forum?

I'm not being smart. That's the response 90% of posts get here. Which is still better than the virtual tumbleweed-fest that is Taxation!

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Grolschevik wrote: »

I'm not being smart. That's the response 90% of posts get here. Which is still better than the virtual tumbleweed-fest that is Taxation!

+1

For a legal discussion forum, there sure isn't a whole lot of discussion allowed. I suspect that the majority of people that read this sub forum have, at least once, clicked into a topic which sounds very interesting only to see it is a question which has been met with a barrage of 'ask your solicitor' responses and nothing more. I'm sure it's infuriating for those asking the questions.

Anyway, OP, it seems to me that you're stuffed either way unless you fancy knocking down driveway walls and the like. If you keep it as a communal area then as you've said nothing is stopping them (unless you can get it included in sale contracts to the buyer of the other half of the property) from using your part too.

If you split the drive down the middle, neither can get in... I don't understand how this can work. It sounds as if there's a narrow entrance to a much wider driveway - can you not knock a wall and solve this?

hotpotato

munkymanmat-thanks very much for your reply. Yep pretty stuffed-am just trying to work out the path of least stuffed-ness here. Actually, there is no wall between the properties and your exactly right, its a narrow gateway (the size of one vehicle) which opens up slightly so you can park two cars side by side (carefully) ie one car belonging to the neighbours and one to us.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

No worries

In my opinion, the best thing to do here is act before selling the other part of the building - knock the walls either side of the gate, have the drive completely open ended, and then stick a wall down a dividing line and get the deeds sorted as soon as you can after that.

Having communal property would probably only lead to disputes and headache further down the line, something you probably don't need when moving into a new home, and in the first year or two of knowing your (future) neighbors it won't exactly be a friendly relationship if you're bickering over the driveway.
I'm currently at odds with my neighbor and never in my life have I wanted to move somewhere else so badly (I am quite young though )

On top of that it might turn out to be less hassle to get all the planning stuff sorted now instead of having it dragging out for (potentially) years, and you might end up in the situation where if you sell the other half while it's still communal property, the other owners will drag their feet on having it divided, for whatever reason.

Hannibal Smith

I would go for the shared driveway in the planning permisson. Chances are the local authority aren't goin to give planning permisson if there's no provision for parking?

A friend of mine had a shared driveway with their neighbour and fell out with them. Que an absolute war over parking. I would prefer if t was in a deed, that way if there is a falling out and some one does act up they're in breach of a covenant in their deed and hopefully would add more weight when resolving it?

Certainly if you're selling on the other property the potential buyers will want the same thing.

Also if you divide the driveways and you still need to go over each others entrance then I think that constitutes some sort of an easement and I think they all have to be registered now?

So I would look for it in the planning permission and put it in the deed.

hotpotato

Ok-gotcha. Thanks for that. We are getting it sorted now. We are going to split it in the deeds but have a clause in the deeds that each side has right of way over the other persons territory in order to reach their side. There is already a precedent for parking there Hannibal Smith. We are legally changing the deeds at this point from one building to two. Did you mean in your opening sentence that you would go for separation of the driveway in the planning permsision (just checking?)

sok11

Hotpotato.. not sure if im in right forum but am seriously considering going down the house share route with a friend or other acceptable third party. Both have budget in the 800-900 bracket but combined we could put ourselves in a different section of the market where there is some "value" in and around south county dublin. I would be very interested to hear the pitfalls etc etc or any good resources that are out there. thx a mill..

234

sok11 wrote: »

Hotpotato.. not sure if im in right forum but am seriously considering going down the house share route with a friend or other acceptable third party. Both have budget in the 800-900 bracket but combined we could put ourselves in a different section of the market where there is some "value" in and around south county dublin. I would be very interested to hear the pitfalls etc etc or any good resources that are out there. thx a mill..

House-sharing involves multiple tenants. It's nothing like joint ownership.

sok11

ok, thx. any pointers welcome.