Property Tax

THENORTHSIDER

Got the estimate today from Revenue.

If I use the guide on their site it puts me in a bracket lower than their posted estimate. I presume they can't penalise me if I use the lower band

hallo dare

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

Got the estimate today from Revenue.

If I use the guide on their site it puts me in a bracket lower than their posted estimate. I presume they can't penalise me if I use the lower band

not yet,but in 2/3 years time when they come round to evaluate your house you could b penalized if they see fit. but if you have a good enough reason as to why you should be in the lower bracket I don't see what they can do about it. I could be wrong!

allthedoyles

We got one today as well , but the person that they sent it to , is not the liable person .

I presume that person fills it in and sends it back to them .

They only say on the guide that the person who received letter should write to revenue with details of who is liable .

However , this person that they wrote to , wants to clear her name and send it back.

SIG

allthedoyles wrote: »

We got one today as well , but the person that they sent it to , is not the liable person .

I presume that person fills it in and sends it back to them .

They only say on the guide that the person who received letter should write to revenue with details of who is liable .

However , this person that they wrote to , wants to clear her name and send it back.

For all , have a look at www.attackthetax.com
might make you feel like a citizen again.

bee06

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

Got the estimate today from Revenue.

If I use the guide on their site it puts me in a bracket lower than their posted estimate. I presume they can't penalise me if I use the lower band

The same thing happened to me. I'll be using the lower band based on the property price register, the revenue website and valuation calculator on Daft.

allthedoyles

Rang LPT this morning and spoke to a most unhelpful individual .

Anyway , the person that is named on the form but not liable , cannot get this changed .

They will not be amending records and sending out another form .

The form must be filled in and returned to include the name of the person you think is liable .

The individual did suggest writing to Limerick outlining our case , but at the end of the day , it appears that the procedures are set in concrete .

Mr. Incognito

SIG wrote: »

For all , have a look at www.attackthetax.com
might make you feel like a citizen again.

The second word is a typo. Annoyed me immediately. Cannot.

Their legal interpretation is also false and misinformed.

Also, the property tax will kill you? FFS. Get real. Most countries have a property tax. You decided to buy. Pay it and shut up.

The transfer of private debt to sovereign debt however is a scandal. They are teniously linked, as I believe a property tax would have come anyway but these people are not equipped with informed legal nuance.

Grolschevik

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The second word is a typo. Annoyed me immediately.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They are teniously linked

matjay

The same thing happened to me, the revenue site says I am in category 3 but I got a form from the revenue saying I'm in category 4 ????

What gives which one am I supposed to use ????? The whole thing is just a big ball of S**TE Again the government expect us to do all the work and they get the job done and reap the benefits !!!!!

SimonLynch

Found this today, I reckon it's actual prices achieved for houses in 2012, might be helpful

http://propertypriceregisterireland.com

smeharg

matjay wrote: »

The same thing happened to me, the revenue site says I am in category 3 but I got a form from the revenue saying I'm in category 4 ????

What gives which one am I supposed to use ????? The whole thing is just a big ball of S**TE Again the government expect us to do all the work and they get the job done and reap the benefits !!!!!

If you read the letter you got from Revenue you will see that

...you will need to self-assess the value of your property...

There's a handy little booklet enclosed to help you do that. Ignore the estimate and use the various tools suggested in the booklet to assess the value.

In fairness to you, Revenue has done nothing but create unnecessary confusion by including an estimate in the return notice. Many people think the estimate is the amount they have to pay. It is not. The amount due could be higher or lower than this. The estimate is the amount Revenue will seek to collect if you fail to make a return.

richardw001

Okay in my case the revenue map says one band and the revenue estimate in the letter is one higher - I looked at the price property register as well - which seems to correlate with the lower band - however its really too vague to tell exactly.

just to be clear - if you go with a lower estimate -for example using the map as justification - there is no penalty - is that correct ? At some point you can be reassessed however all you will owe is the difference ?

This all seems a bit unfair to be honest - if the revenue provided one clear estimate or none at all then it would be something - however it appears to be that most people have two different estimates from the revenue alone (perhaps i'm wrong ?)

matjay

It seems thats the case, just spoke to my dad and he has 2 bands. A lower one on the site and one higher on his estimate. Reading through the booklet they sent wit the estimate. Thats is exaclty what it is as a poster earlier just said an "estimate" At the end of the day revenue are expecting everyone to assess their own property. Having us do all the work.

It looks like they have set the bands higher on estimates in my opinion, on the basis that people that do not know what to do and just leave it and return it based on the estimate or people who just dont pay the tax and it gets set at the estimate they set. This way they make more money.

My advise, do a lot of research into property values around ur area via property sales sites, sections in newspapers, and make use of the property register site. Take an average from all of that and base ur assessment on that.

Good luck :-)

Mr. Incognito

Grolschevik wrote: »

I post typos all the time.

I'd probably spell check my website though.

otterj

How will this be deducted through salary, Will Revenue amend tax credits or will there be a gross deduction from salary

Ogham

otterj wrote: »

How will this be deducted through salary, Will Revenue amend tax credits or will there be a gross deduction from salary

Evenly spread deduction from each payslip.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-deductions-from-wages.html

vicwatson

WTF like daft.ie and myhome.ie?

Revenue Estimate of band is €150,001.00-€200,000.00k for a property I have

Property Price Register averaged per year over 4 years 2010/11/12/13 = €161,000.00

So Revenue's assessment is probably correct.

BUT

Go to myhome.ie and that average according to them is €137,500.00 is for the 4 years

Go to daft.ie and use their property tax guide and that average according to them is a GREAT BIG WHOPPING €218,890.00 for the 4 years

Now how the hell can a website that hosts auctioneers come up with such a disparity?

May just have to use the property price register as it "government approved" - I assume the other valuations are pie in the sky valuations (just like by auctioneers/estate agents in the good ole days)?

What do ye think?

allthedoyles

vicwatson wrote: »

WTF like daft.ie and myhome.ie?

Revenue Estimate of band is €150,001.00-€200,000.00k for a property I have

Property Price Register averaged per year over 4 years 2010/11/12/13 = €161,000.00

So Revenue's assessment is probably correct.

BUT

Go to myhome.ie and that average according to them is €137,500.00 is for the 4 years

Go to daft.ie and use their property tax guide and that average according to them is a GREAT BIG WHOPPING €218,890.00 for the 4 years

Now how the hell can a website that hosts auctioneers come up with such a disparity?

May just have to use the property price register as it "government approved" - I assume the other valuations are pie in the sky valuations (just like by auctioneers/estate agents in the good ole days)?

What do ye think?

Don't know what this 4 year average is about ..............

Quote :
'The amount you pay depends on the market value of your residential property on 1st May 2013 as assessed by you ' unquote

vicwatson

allthedoyles wrote: »

Don't know what this 4 year average is about ..............

Quote :
'The amount you pay depends on the market value of your residential property on 1st May 2013 as assessed by you ' unquote

The 4 year average is about me printing off the house sale prices for the area for the last 4 years from the property price register and averaging the price out over those 4 years

I am not an auctioneer/valuer so don't have a clue about what the "market value" is so I'll assess it that way.

Anyway that's unimportant, the fact that there is such a huge difference in valuation by the likes of daft, myhome and the property price register is worrying and confusing for people (after all it's Revenue that directs people towards those sites to create your "market value") - lowest 137.5k and highest 218k - both values by sites that Revenue recommend we check

allthedoyles

vicwatson wrote: »

The 4 year average is about me printing off the house sale prices for the area for the last 4 years from the property price register and averaging the price out over those 4 years

I am not an auctioneer/valuer so don't have a clue about what the "market value" is so I'll assess it that way.

Anyway that's unimportant, the fact that there is such a huge difference in valuation by the likes of daft, myhome and the property price register is worrying and confusing for people (after all it's Revenue that directs people towards those sites to create your "market value") - lowest 137.5k and highest 218k - both values by sites that Revenue recommend we check

The only website that Revenue specifically recommend is www.propertypriceregister.ie

vicwatson

allthedoyles wrote: »

The only website that Revenue specifically recommend is www.propertypriceregister.ie

Wrong, the Revenue chief economist said to check daft and myhome on the Pat Kenny show couple weeks back.

The property price register has major faults/duplication in it.

Another half assed Irish attempt at doing things the wrong way:rolleyes:

otterj

Ogham wrote: »

Evenly spread deduction from each payslip.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-deductions-from-wages.html

Thats if you decide not to pay then Revenue will order employer to deduct from your salary but if you choose to deduct it from your Salary. How will it be deducted. How will revenue inform your employer presumably the easiest way will be to adjust tax credits

Leslie91

So the LPT for 2013 is for July 1 to end 2013 correct?. So when must a person be the owner of the property to be liable for this 2013 LPT?, is it July 1 2013?

Reason I ask is we expect the sale of our house to go through before then. If it does are we liable for LPT for 2013?

I've been reading the documentation but it is not clear what date is relevant, unlike with NPPR say where March 31 is the date in a calendar year.

Crimson King

Got my bill in the post last week and it puts me in the 3rd bracket (€157.50 for this year) which is hilarious as my apartment is certainly not in the €150,000-€200,000 price range. The Revenue's web site says it is in bracket two (https://lpt.revenue.ie/lpt-web/valuation-guide/index.htm) but from various other threads this site seems to be only a fair guide as many say it is wrong for their places.

I went onto the Revenues property register site, http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/ site and downloaded each month (which was a pain in the arse, why they can't allow a whole year download is beyond me) since January '12 and only two apartments in my area have been sold in the last 15 months and both are in the first bracket. Depressing for what we paid for it but that's another argument. So this is the only true valuation of course, what people are paying for like for like premises and this is the band I will be paying on my form despite what they put on it. They want justification I can show them their own figures.

Ogham

Leslie91 wrote: »

So the LPT for 2013 is for July 1 to end 2013 correct?. So when must a person be the owner of the property to be liable for this 2013 LPT?, is it July 1 2013?

Reason I ask is we expect the sale of our house to go through before then. If it does are we liable for LPT for 2013?

I've been reading the documentation but it is not clear what date is relevant, unlike with NPPR say where March 31 is the date in a calendar year.

May 1st is the liability date and the valuation date in 2013.

Leslie91

Ogham wrote: »

May 1st is the liability date and the valuation date in 2013.

Cheers. I see that the value one puts on their property on May 1 2013 is the value to be used for next 3.5 years to end 2016. This is regardless of improvements one might make to the home or for that matter a further crash in property prices, is that correct?

i.e. if the value is true/fair on May 1 2013 they cannot come after you for more until 2017?

Ogham

Leslie91 wrote: »

Cheers. I see that the value one puts on their property on May 1 2013 is the value to be used for next 3.5 years to end 2016. This is regardless of improvements one might make to the home or for that matter a further crash in property prices, is that correct?

i.e. if the value is true/fair on May 1 2013 they cannot come after you for more until 2017?

They are having another revaluation for 2017 ! More fun !
It will be just as big a mess as now - another 1.6 million letters going out with estimates. If they had even had the sense to ask people some details about their house - bedrooms etc - that would have made it easier for the future.

Ah well - we'll have the Water Charges too by then ...

Red Actor

Crimson King wrote: »

Got my bill in the post last week and it puts me in the 3rd bracket (€157.50 for this year) which is hilarious as my apartment is certainly not in the €150,000-€200,000 price range. The Revenue's web site says it is in bracket two (https://lpt.revenue.ie/lpt-web/valuation-guide/index.htm) but from various other threads this site seems to be only a fair guide as many say it is wrong for their places.

I went onto the Revenues property register site, http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/ site and downloaded each month (which was a pain in the arse, why they can't allow a whole year download is beyond me) since January '12 and only two apartments in my area have been sold in the last 15 months and both are in the first bracket. Depressing for what we paid for it but that's another argument. So this is the only true valuation of course, what people are paying for like for like premises and this is the band I will be paying on my form despite what they put on it. They want justification I can show them their own figures.

They do - you could have selected "all months". Now why there isn't an "all years" is another matter.

vicwatson

Can anyone define a "bathroom" in the eyes of the calculation of this tax?

Does the room have to have a bath to be deemed a bathroom or would a shower room or toilet under the stairs also be classified as a "bathroom"?

Using the daft register if you say you have 1 bathroom it values a house at aprx 137 k enter 4 "bathrooms" - being toilet and shower rooms - and their value shoots up to 218k !!

Leslie91

vicwatson wrote: »

Can anyone define a "bathroom" in the eyes of the calculation of this tax?

Does the room have to have a bath to be deemed a bathroom or would a shower room or toilet under the stairs also be classified as a "bathroom"?

Using the daft register if you say you have 1 bathroom it values a house at aprx 137 k enter 4 "bathrooms" - being toilet and shower rooms - and their value shoots up to 218k !!

I would imagine another room with a shower and toilet would qualify as another 'bathroom'. I'd be interested like you to know what the definition is for these purposes though.

Crimson King

Red Actor wrote: »

They do - you could have selected "all months". Now why there isn't an "all years" is another matter.

Cheers, just seen that now.

larchill

Got mine last week: €157 (€315 for the full year). The LPT calculator indicated the lower band, so I've been placed in the band above :eek:

WexTK

I'm in the process of renovating an old farmhouse... no electricity connection yet and have not received (thus far) a notification from Revenue.
What should I do in these circumstances? Leave sleeping dogs lie or contact Revenue?

Call me Al

My OH and I have received a property tax bill each for our one house. One bill is higher than the other too!
I assume I just pay one (not too hard to figure out which estimate I will go for either), and return the other to the revenue with a note saying it has already been paid under the other property id?
Thanks!

Ogham

Call me Al wrote: »

My OH and I have received a property tax bill each for our one house. One bill is higher than the other too!
I assume I just pay one (not too hard to figure out which estimate I will go for either), and return the other to the revenue with a note saying it has already been paid under the other property id?
Thanks!

If they have 2 different property id's - they might think that you own 2 different properties! . Make sure you inform them that you only own the one.
I got an online LPT form today for a house I sold a year ago !!

timbel

I just checked my online revenue account and saw that the letter was there in my inbox. Of course, they have overvalued the house.

However, when I go to submit the return with the correct band, it asks for payment details.
I want to say debit card, but they seem to be taking payment now - is this the case?

I thought this tax didn't fall due until 1st July...

John Ivory

I didn't receive anything from Revenue yet. Is there any place I can check to estimate the amount due?

Ogham

John Ivory wrote: »

I didn't receive anything from Revenue yet. Is there any place I can check to estimate the amount due?

Do you have a rough idea of what your house is worth ? To the nearest €50 grand ?

If you do then it's just a matter of seeing which valuation band and amount of tax you fit into - Here

If you haven't a clue how much your house is worth you can use these links to help ...



Daft.ie Property Tax Estimator

Money Guide Ireland Property Price Estimator

https://lpt.revenue.ie/lpt-web/valuation-guide/index.htm

John Ivory

Hi Ogham,
Many thanks for your help and all the links, I found property value and tax band in no time!
I just have to pay now !!!

Ogham

John Ivory wrote: »

Hi Ogham,
Many thanks for your help and all the links, I found property value and tax band in no time!
I just have to pay now !!!

Wait till you get the form from Revenue - they haven't sent them all out yet.

Phoebas

WexTK wrote: »

I'm in the process of renovating an old farmhouse... no electricity connection yet and have not received (thus far) a notification from Revenue.
What should I do in these circumstances? Leave sleeping dogs lie or contact Revenue?

Contact Revenue.
This is a self assessment tax and the onus is on you to pay it. Letting sleeping dogs lie is tax evasion.

Ogham

Phoebas wrote: »

Contact Revenue.
This is a self assessment tax and the onus is on you to pay it. Letting sleeping dogs lie is tax evasion.

All the forms for LPT haven't been sent out yet - you might get one in the next week or two. But - if the property has not been occupied or has not got electricity - then they probably don't know about it.

If it is not suitable for occupation on May 1st - it will not be classed as a residential property anyway.

fergie bxl

I'm house hunting at the moment and am wondering if I can find out the tax band being declared for a house that I am interested in. I mean by some official means - not just taking the word of the agent. Does anyone know if the database of property tax will become public like the tenancies board database (PRTB)? TIA

barneystinson

fergie bxl wrote: »

I'm house hunting at the moment and am wondering if I can find out the tax band being declared for a house that I am interested in. I mean by some official means - not just taking the word of the agent. Does anyone know if the database of property tax will become public like the tenancies board database (PRTB)? TIA

Not a hope in hell I'd say, no more so than you could find out about the detail of a person's income tax return. 2 words - Data Protection.

Fermatslast

otterj wrote: »

How will this be deducted through salary, Will Revenue amend tax credits or will there be a gross deduction from salary

If you opt to have the tax deducted from your salary, revenue will send an amended tax credit cert to your employer showing how much property tax is to be deducted by the end of the year. The employer will then deduct it each week/month, etc.

connundrum

My brother received a letter for a house he lived in (not owned or was the main tenant in) in Mayo in 2008.

According to revenue.ie:

What should I do if I receive an LPT Return in my name but I am not the owner of the residential property?

Within 30 days of receiving the LPT Return, you should write to Revenue and include the following information:

Explain why you do not consider yourself to be the liable person,
Whatever supporting documentation that may be relevant, and
The name(s), address(es)and PPSN(s) of the liable person(s).

Based on this information Revenue will make a determination on the matter. If you fail to satisfy Revenue that you are not the liable person, you will be liable to pay the LPT on the residential property.

What documentation does he need to provide? Without being sarcastic, does he need to provide a copy of his non existant deeds? Is there a form that you can get to show you're not a house owner??

How the hell is he supposed to know who the owner of a house he had a room in was, let alone his/her PPS Number??

If he writes to revenue with 1/3 of the above questions answered, is he liable for further examination and /or questioning from them?

I have advised him to ring the revenue, and he will do once he finishes a run of night shifts.

fergie bxl

barneystinson wrote: »

Not a hope in hell I'd say, no more so than you could find out about the detail of a person's income tax return. 2 words - Data Protection.

@ Barney s Thanks for your reply. You are probably right but it's interesting that other European countries that also have property tax do not feel the need to keep it secret. In fact, sellers will often quote it in their adverts, especially if it seems reasonable for the property. It's not really the same as personal income tax, as it attaches to the property. Cultural differences I guess.

Sofiztikated

Hypothetical question.

Say I haven't paid the €100 tax from last year, but received the property tax letter, and want to pay it.

What happens then?

allthedoyles

If the €100 household tax is not paid by 1st July , it will be doubled to €200 and added to this years property tax

Longford Leader

I received my letter yesterday and it puts me in band 02.(100k-150k)

I am in the 4th house of a 9 house row, the 9 houses are all detached with the exact same size and layout.

The house next door is now up for sale today with an asking price of €92k.

Does this mean that my house should be in band 01 or does a for sale price by an estate agent mean anything?

vienne86

John Ivory wrote: »

I didn't receive anything from Revenue yet. Is there any place I can check to estimate the amount due?

I think letters are still going out - mine only arrived this morning. It seems that for people with more than one property, the letters have gone out later.