Electric Car Wiring.

Can you take a connection from your cooker connection to power an e.v for 3.5.6.5 kw ?

The reason I ask is that rarely would the two be on together and even if they were the cooker cable is Is 10 mm 2 so should take 45 amps and charging would depending on car charge at 3.5-6.5 kw so that's 10,800 watts the cable can take.

Car would be say max 6.5 kw and oven is 2-2.5kw one or 2 hobs 2kw ?

But as I say neither would be on together as the car would be charging 95% on night saver.

ANyway the reason I ask is that the connection from cooker to charger would be around 10 feet compared to maybe 50 feet to connect to consumer unit and would make it a lot easier.

2011

The only way to do this properly is to install a separate supply for the charging unit for the electric vehicle.

Perhaps a switch or interlock could be installed allowing the user to select to either to charge the car or use the cooker. Although technically compliant it would be messy and not something that I would do.

Have you go the specifications for the changing unit?
If so please post them here.

I have not installed these units, but I would be surprised if they can present a load as much as 6.5 kW.

Thanks for the reply 2011.

Here is a link to one on Radionics, there is a PDF there too.

http://radionics.rs-online.com/web/p/node_under_construction/7649992/

You can get 11 kw single phase chargers, the ones on Radionics are super expensive as the price of the chargers has come down a lot in the last year.

I think the 3 kw ones the esb install are a lot cheaper.

The Updated Nissan Leaf due in a few months has a 6.6 kw charger up from 3.5, pulls 6.6 from the mains. I think the Zoe can charge at 10 kw on single phase, not absolutely sure on that.

Anyway hooking up to the cooker supply would be the best way for me as I live in a a mid Terrace and bringing a Cable from the back yard to the consumer unit at the front would be a major pain.

This isn't something I will be doing very soon, but hopefully not too far away.

The 2nd hand prices will be reasonable soon, but that would only require 3.5 kw or around 16 amps and I haven't made up my mind if it will be new or not.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

The only way to do this properly is to install a separate supply for the charging unit for the electric vehicle.

Perhaps a switch or interlock could be installed allowing the user to select to either to charge the car or use the cooker. Although technically compliant it would be messy and not something that I would do.

Have you go the specifications for the changing unit?
If so please post them here.

I have not installed these units, but I would be surprised if they can present a load as much as 6.5 kW.

I dont think an interlock would really be needed. With showers, its either all on, or nothing, so 2 would be 18 or 19 kw`s at once. The cooker would have some diversity.

But either way, coming from the cooker circuit would be a bit of a diy job alright.

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway hooking up to the cooker supply would be the best way for me as I live in a a mid Terrace and bringing a Cable from the back yard to the consumer unit at the front would be a major pain.

Why would you be coming from the back yard, where is the charger going?

The charger would have to go in the back yard, and the kitchen is out the back so it wouldn't have far at all to go. 10-12 meters max.

I was thinking maybe I'd use 2.5 mm armoured cable tacked to the wall ?

I just checked the consumer unit and the breaker for the cooker is 32 amps for around 7.2 KW. I thought it was 45 amps.

Anyway if the cable was up to it all id have to do is change it for a 45 amp. I'm nearly sure it's 10mm 2 .

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

I dont think an interlock would really be needed.

Yes, possibly but from this it sounds like a hob (I have seen hobs of over 8kW), an oven and then a 6.5kW load:

Deleted User wrote: »

Car would be say max 6.5 kw and oven is 2-2.5kw one or 2 hobs 2kw ?

It sounds like too much for a single cable.

Anyway, I think we are agreed that a dedicated circuit is best.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was thinking maybe I'd use 2.5 mm armoured cable tacked to the wall ?

Not a chance.
If the load is 6.5kW then I would expect the cable to be at least a 6 mm sq.
Clipping an SWA (steel wire armoured) cable is a viable option though.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Yes, possibly but from this it sounds like a hob (I have seen hobs of over 8kW), an oven and then a 6.5kW load:

Yea but rarely used will all rings on together, where as a shower is full on, or off. All academic anyway.

2011

2011 wrote: »

It sounds like too much for a single cable.

Anyway, I think we are agreed that a dedicated circuit is best.


Not a chance.
If the load is 6.5kW then I would expect the cable to be at least a 6 mm sq.
Clipping an SWA (steel wire armoured) cable is a viable option though.

Yeah I thought it might be a bit low, it said max current 31 amps. But probably not constant.

How about this ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/STEEL-WIRED-ARMOURED-CABLE-OUTDOOR/dp/B007KAFIJ6/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1363728471&sr=1-1-catcorr

If it had to go back to the consumer unit, what cable could I run over this distance around 20 meters.

It would have to go from the back wall up the house wall through attic, down wall in box room and to consumer unit is a real pain, but luckily I installed a draw wire.

Would I use normal cable then junction box and the armoured cable outside ?

2011

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I thought it might be a bit low, it said max current 31 amps. But probably not constant.

31 amps will mean a 32A MCB.
Therefore the cable will need to be sized for a 32A protective device.

How about this ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/STEEL-WIRED-ARMOURED-CABLE-OUTDOOR/dp/B007KAFIJ6/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1363728471&sr=1-1-catcorr

Expensive, but good

If it had to go back to the consumer unit, what cable could I run over this distance around 20 meters.

I would use a 6sq. mm
Volt drop is low enough.

It would have to go from the back wall up the house wall through attic, down wall in box room and to consumer unit is a real pain, but luckily I installed a draw wire.

That will not be easy to feed. Perhaps if you removed the armour for the indoor section. Don't forget to earth the armour !

Would I use normal cable then junction box and the armoured cable outside ?

Permitted, but bad practice. As a general rule avoid junction boxes as much as possible especially with larger loads like this.

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

It would have to go from the back wall up the house wall through attic, down wall in box room and to consumer unit is a real pain, but luckily I installed a draw wire.

Or along low on outside wall under edge of pebble dash etc, through wall directly below fuseboard, and up in dry lining if there is any, to the board.

All depends on the house.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Permitted, but bad practice. As a general rule avoid junction boxes as much as possible especially with larger loads like this.

In a proper junction box with din rail and connectors, it wouldnt be too bad. But for a competent lad, no junction boxes needed.

2011

2011 wrote: »

Expensive, but good

Ha ha yeah I was only using Amazon as a search, can be handy.

2011 wrote: »

That will not be easy to feed. Perhaps if you removed the armour for the indoor section. Don't forget to earth the armour !

Won't be easy to feed at all, maybe I would get away with using non armoured cable, tacked along the wall wouldn't really have any issues, I just like not taking the chance with exposed cables.

2011 wrote: »

Permitted, but bad practice. As a general rule avoid junction boxes as much as possible especially with larger loads like this.

I could screw the junction box to the attic wall, or just join it outside in an ip56 box.


If I ever did get a new EV I could get the ESB to install it for free!

But it won't be happening for a while just exploring all my options.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

In a proper junction box with din rail and connectors, it wouldnt be too bad. But for a competent lad, no junction boxes needed.

The only reason I would use it would be to get away without having to run armoured cable the whole way, not possible really.

If I wasn't in a fecking mid terrace i'd only have to drill a hole in the wall few meters at most.

I'd need a junction box anyway if I was running it from the cooker cable.

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

The only reason I would use it would be to get away without having to run armoured cable the whole way, not possible really.

If I wasn't in a fecking mid terrace i'd only have to drill a hole in the wall few meters at most.

I'd need a junction box anyway if I was running it from the cooker cable.

I often ran SWA`s with the actual steel only on part of the run. It can be done alright. Terminate the swa into a gland into a steel box, and continue the uncut inner cable inside the house.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Or along low on outside wall under edge of pebble dash etc, through wall directly below fuseboard, and up in dry lining if there is any, to the board.

All depends on the house.

That's the way the cooker and shower went, but the plasterboard is dabbed on would you believe, so very difficult To feed cables.

It has to go into attic and down the back wall no other way, can't be run under pebble dash. I'm in a mid terrace.

If I were doing it myself I think Id be stone mad not to use a perfectly good cooker cable that's idle 23 hours a day.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

I often ran SWA`s with the actual steel only on part of the run. It can be done alright. Terminate the swa into a gland into a steel box, and continue the uncut inner cable inside the house.

20 meters of though would be very expensive.

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

20 meters of though would be very expensive.

Well depending on the job, it can be done with twin and earth all the way. Or swa and junction box.

If it was me, it would be a new circuit anyway. As for using either swa or twin and earth, or both and junction box, it is impossible to say without seeing the exact setup. A very neat job can be done by the experienced though, in just about any scenario.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Well depending on the job, it can be done with twin and earth all the way. Or swa and junction box.

If it was me, it would be a new circuit anyway. As for using either swa or twin and earth, or both and junction box, it is impossible to say without seeing the exact setup. A very neat job can be done by the experienced though, in just about any scenario.

Yep a new circuit would be the way, but I know I have 45 amps if I install a 45 amp rcd, or rcbo best on the cooker cable ?

Doesn't the rcbo offer over current and earth leakage and short circuit protection and the rcd just earth leakage ?

Here is my consumer unit.



So would I be correct in saying that all 20 amp sockets are connected to the RCD ?

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep a new circuit would be the way, but I know I have 45 amps if I install a 45 amp rcd, or rcbo best on the cooker cable ?

If you have a 10 sq cable, you could. Its always better to keep the breaker size as low as possible for the load it is supplying though, such as a 32amp for a cooker. But it could be done alright.

Doesn't the rcbo offer over current and earth leakage and short circuit protection and the rcd just earth leakage ?

Yes that`s right, which would be needed for an item being plugged in and out. Cooker circuits dont have them. There could be some nuisance tripping, although it would likely be low risk with new cookers and a dedicated RCBO.

So would I be correct in saying that all 20 amp sockets are connected to the RCD ?

Yes they are.

I have to say, I like your electric car enthusiasm over a load of posts i have seen the last few months.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Yes that`s right, which would be needed for an item being plugged in and out. Cooker circuits dont have them. There could be some nuisance tripping, although it would likely be low risk with new cookers and a dedicated RCBO.

The evse (charger) has built in protection and a mcb/rcbo ? anyway I could just keep everything as it is with just a junction box at the cooker to feed the SWA from that.

Bruthal wrote: »

I have to say, I like your electric car enthusiasm over a load of posts i have seen the last few months.

Ha ha yeah, I hope to have one within the next 1-2 years, though if I hear rumours of the new model due in 2015, I may hold off. There is Zoe to think bout too, but I don't know about battery rental. With the mileage I do it would work out a little cheaper than a diesel car over the 5 year battery lease, certainly not more expensive. But the Leaf will cost more to buy anyway so it's swings and roundabouts unless of course I but a 2-3 year old Leaf.

I do believe they have great potential if people only understood them more, but I blame the car manufacturers, ESB and Government for not educating people.

Once the new fast chargers come on line it will greatly increase the practicality of their use, I always say longer lasting faster charging batteries are what's needed over 300 mile range, and a lot more fast chargers. I don't see the point of carrying a very expensive 300 mile range E.V when I've never driven 300 miles in one day, but maybe I'm completely mad, hence the name!

Bruthal

Mad_Lad wrote: »

The evse (charger) has built in protection and a mcb/rcbo ? anyway I could just keep everything as it is with just a junction box at the cooker to feed the SWA from that.

Yes you could, if its 10 sq

Ha ha yeah, I hope to have one within the next 1-2 years, though if I hear rumours of the new model due in 2015, I may hold off. There is Zoe to think bout too, but I don't know about battery rental. With the mileage I do it would work out a little cheaper than a diesel car over the 5 year battery lease, certainly not more expensive. But the Leaf will cost more to buy anyway so it's swings and roundabouts unless of course I but a 2-3 year old Leaf.

I do believe they have great potential if people only understood them more, but I blame the car manufacturers, ESB and Government for not educating people.

Once the new fast chargers come on line it will greatly increase the practicality of their use, I always say longer lasting faster charging batteries are what's needed over 300 mile range, and a lot more fast chargers. I don't see the point of carrying a very expensive 300 mile range E.V when I've never driven 300 miles in one day, but maybe I'm completely mad, hence the name!

Yes I think simply dismissing them is just due to lack of insight and/or boards bravado at times.

How it actually goes long term is hard to say for certain, but it looks promising to me anyway. I would,t mind using one myself.

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Yes you could, if its 10 sq

Excellent.

Bruthal wrote: »

Yes I think simply dismissing them is just due to lack of insight and/or boards bravado at times.

How it actually goes long term is hard to say for certain, but it looks promising to me anyway. I would,t mind using one myself.

Have you thought about getting one ?

Yeah, posting anything about electric cars in the boards.ie motors section can be very frustrating.