Quick Literary question

WoollyRedHat

Apologies if this is the wrong forum, didn't really know where else to put it... if a gender is replaced with a planet, as if the planet embodied/ was representative of a gender, then what would this be an example of? Is it a metaphor? I.e "And Venus falls, when Mercury is raised" Venus is supposed to be representative of the women and Mercury of Man.

ThirdMan

Metaphor: "A metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object."

HeadPig

Surely Mars is ore appropriate? Yes it's a metaphor.

Mardy Bum

Unless you are making a comparison and it identifies explicitly the two objects then it would be a metaphor e.g. "an army of children" "wooden face" "money is the life blood of society"

From the line you have given I would be inclined to say that is an example of personification i.e giving human qualities to objects, animals etc. Does the piece continue to talk about Venus and Mercury or does it revert to humans?

WoollyRedHat

HeadPig wrote: »

Surely Mars is ore appropriate? Yes it's a metaphor.

It's from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, so you'd have to take it up with him lol

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Unless you are making a comparison and it identifies explicitly the two objects then it would be a metaphor e.g. "an army of children" "wooden face" "money is the life blood of society"

From the line you have given I would be inclined to say that is an example of personification i.e giving human qualities to objects, animals etc. Does the piece continue to talk about Venus and Mercury or does it revert to humans?

Thanks, yeah it ceases to talk about either after, it talks about clerks and women and the power struggle beforehand, then talks about astrological allusions such as above. Mercury and scholars are connected tofether, while Venus is that of love.

Mardy Bum

It sounds like personification so.

HeadPig

I'd struggle to see it as personification. "...When Mercury is raised" hardly sounds like something unique to people.

Mardy Bum

The OP says Mercury and Venus refers to man and woman. If it mentions another item explicitly in comparison then it would be a metaphor however there is no comparison in that brief line.

Queen-Mise

Anthropomorphism or personification is any attribution of human characteristics (or characteristics assumed to belong only to humans) to other animals, non-living things, phenomena, material states, objects or abstract concepts, such as organizations, governments, spirits or deities
The stars danced playfully in the moonlit sky... or The run down house appeared depressed.


whereas

a metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object.
All the world's a stage

The planets have been given/represent human characteristics. IMO it is personification.

clairefontaine

Sounds like straight forward symbolism.

Take a traffic light.

Red means stop. [Symbol]

Green means go. [Symbol]

Amber. No one really knows what the means but most of us live our lives by it. [Metaphor]

Queen-Mise

clairefontaine wrote: »

Sounds like straight forward symbolism.

A definite argument can be made for this... And this is probably the most accurate.

The use of one object or action (a symbol) to represent or suggest something else.

Venus was used to symbolise woman and Mercury for man.

It is not strictly personification - as my understanding of that means to give something that is non-human human attributes.
So you could say that Venus was looking moody;)

clairefontaine

Queen-Mise wrote: »

A definite argument can be made for this... And this is probably the most accurate.



Venus was used to symbolise woman and Mercury for man.

It is not strictly personification - as my understanding of that means to give something that is non-human human attributes.
So you could say that Venus was looking moody;)

Actually Mars was representative of man [god of war]. Mercury is the messenger [Hermes.]

Yes, if you said soemthing like Venus wept [assuming you are talking about the planet and not the goddess] than that would be personification.

Or if you use my example of the traffic light, the traffic light winked at me as I drove through.

Queen-Mise

OK - it's decided. Chaucer was using symbolism.


/goes back to rock now

clairefontaine

Queen-Mise wrote: »

OK - it's decided. Chaucer was using symbolism.


/goes back to rock now

I think the sentence is both.

Venus being woman and mercury being man, when she "falls" he is "raised", to me says when she falls to temptation or literally falls supine, he gets an erection, but raised could also mean elevated to a higher state.

WoollyRedHat

clairefontaine wrote: »

I think the sentence is both.

Venus being woman and mercury being man, when she "falls" he is "raised", to me says when she falls to temptation or literally falls supine, he gets an erection, but raised could also mean elevated to a higher state.

I think it could be both too... my reading of it Venus falling and Mercury being raised was moreso elevation to a higher state, as in she cannot be higher than Mercury.

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The OP says Mercury and Venus refers to man and woman. If it mentions another item explicitly in comparison then it would be a metaphor however there is no comparison in that brief line.

That was my reading of it, and to be honest, it's a little off... Mercury in this case, was more explicitly refering to scholars, and their attributes, as Mercury is associated with apparently, therefore Mars is not used. Venus is that of love and passion