Second dog advice (Dog combinations)

NorthernB

Hi Guys, been on here a good while but this is my first post. Haven't really found advice on what i'm after so thought id ask. Sorry its going to be a long one!

Current situation is i have a 3 year old ESS dog. Obedient, great at retrieving but lacks a good nose i.e. goes around with head in the air rather than the ground and has to be told to get into the ditches. Also likes to run on a bit and is quite timid.

Shooting wise it is mainly round the fields after pheasants/snipe/rabbits and ponds for duck but we have some great ground in the club for woodcock and grouse too which i'd like to get into.

My main driver for a second dog is that the ESS is lonely on his own (8am to 6pm weekdays) because of this he is impossible to keep in a pen and is causing too much havoc out the back (1/4 acre fenced garden) he howls and whines a bit when i'm gone.

Figure if i'm going to get a second dog it may as well be something i can use, preferably to compliment the springer. So does anyone have any advice as to what a good second dog might be? Keeping in mind my work hours, the traits of my current ESS and my shooting habits.

Any advice much appreciated.

garyc007

you could go for a trained springer that might teach him a thing or two? or if you want to change maybe an english pointer or setter?

EPointer=Birdss

Per above a good springer to try & get yours going or with access to grouse a pointing dog for a mix. Lot of lads would kill for that so why not enjoy it

fitzy_fitzy

As the lads said you could go with pointer and setter.
Ideal for pheasant and grouse.
As you know you can't really hunt pointing dog with flushing dog and with your work commitments you will hardly be able to work both dogs separately.
So you could get springer to walk to heal while the setter/pointer do their job.
The springer could do the retrieving.

dicky82

at the risk of sounding like a moaner do you have the time for a second dog? i know i'm making an assumption but are your current dogs short comings due to lack of time in the initial training? if so you should consider buying a trained dog be it pointing or flushing breed because if you buy a pup you could end up with two mediocre dogs. why not try run your dog with someone else's springers to bring him on a bit and then see if you feel you need a second dog. the other thing is that now we're coming into the longer evenings the rabbits tend to sit out and this is great for getting the dogs nose on the ground and for helping to encourage them to hit cover...

NorthernB

Good points alright, especially yours dicky about time and ending up with two mediocre dogs! Your probably right about the lack of training (or more so the reinforcement of it over time) with the ESS. Don't get me wrong, he's not completely useless, very obedient, stops, sits, stays and will take hand signals on command every time i.e. hes great at the basics and retrieving. He's just lacking in that natural drive to get stuck into hedges. I work him with my da's two ESS. One is my lads' sister from a previous litter and his brother. The brother is a tank (has the queen anne bow legs) and as they say, would go through a brick wall on a scent!

Pup vs trained dog
In this regard i was initially going towards a pup, with the thinking that my current dog would become more assertive and authorative being the alpha male and hoped that this along with the training of the pup would really bring him on. Maybe that wouldn't happen and the pup would rule the roost!

Breed
Initially i was thinking of a pointer/setter, veering towards a GSP as they seem to be more of an all rounder. But like fitzy_fitzy said, tiem wise a would be out with them both, and this could prove difficult controlling two dogs who work completely differently. Anyone have any experience on here doing this?

dicky82

have you tried running him with other dogs besides your dads? he might try and impress you if he's competing with new dogs, running him with your dads dogs all the time he might have his role in the pack and be reluctant to try and strive around them, i have experience of this with a mates dog.

garyc007

iv worked my 2.5 old ess bitch with pointers since she was a pup. hope to do the same with my new pup. i keep her to heel if the pointers are on a bird and get her to work heavier cover they wont work or retrieve birds they wont etc. if your springer is obient i dont see a problem with working it with a pointer & as i say you can try n keep it to heel if hes getting to birds the pointers are working.the reason i said about considering a trained dog is if you dont have a lot of time to put into a new pup it might be worth paying that bit extra for a trained dog

EPointer=Birdss

NorthernB wrote: »

Good points alright, especially yours dicky about time and ending up with two mediocre dogs! Your probably right about the lack of training (or more so the reinforcement of it over time) with the ESS. Don't get me wrong, he's not completely useless, very obedient, stops, sits, stays and will take hand signals on command every time i.e. hes great at the basics and retrieving. He's just lacking in that natural drive to get stuck into hedges. I work him with my da's two ESS. One is my lads' sister from a previous litter and his brother. The brother is a tank (has the queen anne bow legs) and as they say, would go through a brick wall on a scent!

Pup vs trained dog
In this regard i was initially going towards a pup, with the thinking that my current dog would become more assertive and authorative being the alpha male and hoped that this along with the training of the pup would really bring him on. Maybe that wouldn't happen and the pup would rule the roost!

Breed
Initially i was thinking of a pointer/setter, veering towards a GSP as they seem to be more of an all rounder. But like fitzy_fitzy said, tiem wise a would be out with them both, and this could prove difficult controlling two dogs who work completely differently. Anyone have any experience on here doing this?

Your primary difficulty if time is an issue & planning on working 2 dogs is you will need time to train the pointer before bringing a springer near it. 2-3 seasons to leave it mature & settle. Again a ready trained dog might be the best option

NorthernB

Your right dicky about his role in the pack, his brother puts him in his place straight away each time they meet, just has to give him a look! so yeah that could definately be a factor there. Hence going down the puppy route.

Being realistic about my time, a pointer/setter probably wouldn't suit then, not when my hunting consists of a few hours or half day every second weekend.

Any thoughts on cocker spaniels? pure/cross with springer?

snipe02

NorthernB wrote: »

Your right dicky about his role in the pack, his brother puts him in his place straight away each time they meet, just has to give him a look! so yeah that could definately be a factor there. Hence going down the puppy route.

Being realistic about my time, a pointer/setter probably wouldn't suit then, not when my hunting consists of a few hours or half day every second weekend.

Any thoughts on cocker spaniels? pure/cross with springer?

any pup is going to have to be trained and worked on its own until its at least 2 years to be fair to the dog why dont you pass on your current dog to a beginner or as a pet if hes not what you want and start with a pup by the sounds of it you have access to a dog or 2 to shoot over so put the time into getting the right shooting dog for you maybe your just comparing your current dog to his bro and co and not just accepting him for the dog he is do you get your share of game with him do you always run hi m with the others how many dogs do ye run at a time?.

NorthernB

Hi snipe, i've really only ran him with the same 2/3 ESS since he was born. My da and cousin dogs. Game wise it was a very poor season, mainly as i was out on my own with him and seemed to be very unlucky with the side of the hedge birds flushed from. There were times though when i'd see a bird head into a hedge from distance but he would have no interest in the spot at all, or few times we walked a hedge/ditch one way only to flush the bird on the way back again.

Going back to my OP though, i don't want to replace my current ESS, but would like another dog that can not only keep him company and bring him out of his shell a bit but also compliment him when it comes to hunting.

My thinking now is that another ESS or possibly a cocker/sprocker would suit best. And like has previously been advised, a trained dog may be the way to go.