How much time should one take off work.

Amprodude

How long should one take off work when involved and surviving a serious car accident with multiple injuries? What would be realistic recovery time?

Thanks

ElleEm

It depends on the injuries.
You should really consult with your doctor.

Amprodude

ElleEm wrote: »

It depends on the injuries.
You should really consult with your doctor.

I have and the doctor has given me a month off. I have sent in my Cert to employer. Does that cover me from my employer asking any questions on returning at an earlier date?

The Big Red Button

Are you covered by your employer's insurance policy if you return to work at an earlier date?

Amprodude

Fluffy Bunny Rabid wrote: »

Are you covered by your employer's insurance policy if you return to work at an earlier date?

I don't know? I don't intend to come back until the doctor cert runs out. I'm just wondering can the company check up on me while I'm out?

kryogen

Depends on the contract you have

The company probably has the right to get you evaluated by a doctor of their choosing and can ask that you do regular check ups and status updates if they really want to.

Peregrinus

Might be worth posting this in "legal discussion". It's likely that your employer has contract terms and/or policies in place which entitle them to ask you to be examined by a doctor chosen by the company, though where you've been in a car accident and have multiple injuries and your own doctor thinks you should stay off for a month and there's no reason to think you're malingering, they very likely will not exercise that right.

But it does depend on what your job is. If the reason for the sick cert is that, given your injuries, you are supposed to be unable to do certain things that the job physically requires, but you are found to be doing those things, or things very like them, during your sick leave, the company may get quite shirty.

okiss

I would follow your doctors advice about when to go back to work.
I know myself that I had surgery a few years ago and I started to feel better a 2 to 3 weeks after this. My doctor told me I won't let you go back to work until your consultant/consultants team check you out.
My doctor was right to do this. I found when I went back to work I was very tired in the evenings after work for a good while after this.
I would be in no rush to head back to work to soon as you could do more damage to yourself and you don't want to be out sick again a week or two after going back.
Also from what I know you would not be covered under your companies insurance policy unless you had medical advice that it was safe to go back to work.
If your boss is ringing you and asking when are you going back I would just tell them what happened and that you will be following your doctors advice.
I would keep sending in sick certs until you go back to work.
I would contact the department of social welfare as you may be entitled to sick pay if your employer is not paying you at the moment.
I hope you feel better soon.

xxlauraxxox

i was out of wok for up to four months after my crash 4years ago if anything my employer was supportive and didnt contact me and offered to keep my job open as long as i kept him updated on my progress and injuries and handed in certs to cover me for the time i needed off.his insurance didnt cover me to return until i had a final assessment from a consultnt and psyiotherpist to say i was fit to resume.my advice would be keep your employer updated they dont like been left out in the dark some really do care about your wellbeing,get your doctur to assess you when you feel YOU are ready to return to work and you could ask your employer not to contact you,youll contct him when your ready.
I wish you the best of luck and a very speedy recovery

tatli_lokma

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

i was out of wok for up to four months after my crash 4years ago if anything my employer was supportive and didnt contact me and offered to keep my job open as long as i kept him updated on my progress and injuries and handed in certs to cover me for the time i needed off.his insurance didnt cover me to return until i had a final assessment from a consultnt and psyiotherpist to say i was fit to resume.my advice would be keep your employer updated they dont like been left out in the dark some really do care about your wellbeing,get your doctur to assess you when you feel YOU are ready to return to work and you could ask your employer not to contact you,youll contct him when your ready.
I wish you the best of luck and a very speedy recovery

Laura are you not the same poster who not a month ago said that your prolonged periods of ill health are now causing your manager to give you a hard time?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83380651

what you say is correct - keep your employer informed as it will definitely help to keep the lines of communication open. It will also help to keep you in the loop so that when you do return you won't feel like an outsider or a new hire all over again.

However, a cert explains illness, it does not excuse it. If you have a cert for a month, but in all honesty are fit for work in 2 weeks, a responsible person will contact their employer. They may ask for a fit for work cert to cover them for insurance, but they will most likely be glad to see you back. Even legitimate illness can be held against you when it comes to staffing decisions, promotion opportunities etc.

Also there are employers who won't accept a month long cert - they require weekly ones. You will need this anyway if you want to get illness benefit and again, most employers will have it in their policy that you will be expected to claim any benefit you are entitled to and either have it signed over to them, and they then add to the balance to pay you your full wages. If you don't get paid for sick leave then you will definitely need to claim for illness benefit and you need weekly certs for this - only after a certain period will SW accept certs for longer periods.

My advice is don't be complacent in thinking, 'I have a cert, I'm covered and there is nothing they can do about it'. There is plenty an employer can do if they think your illness is not legitimate.

Edit to add - in my time as a manager, there have been employees who I would happily accept a month long cert from, but there are also those I have experienced who I would under no circumstances accept a month long cert from and I would be asking them to attend the company doctor. A month long cert is a very long time, and a doctor who hands these out would ring alarm bells for me. I would be reluctant to accept a month long cert except in exceptional cases.

Weathering

When ur able and fit enough. Pretty obvious

xxlauraxxox

Little Ted wrote: »

Laura are you not the same poster who not a month ago said that your prolonged periods of ill health are now causing your manager to give you a hard time?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83380651

what you say is correct - keep your employer informed as it will definitely help to keep the lines of communication open. It will also help to keep you in the loop so that when you do return you won't feel like an outsider or a new hire all over again.

However, a cert explains illness, it does not excuse it. If you have a cert for a month, but in all honesty are fit for work in 2 weeks, a responsible person will contact their employer. They may ask for a fit for work cert to cover them for insurance, but they will most likely be glad to see you back. Even legitimate illness can be held against you when it comes to staffing decisions, promotion opportunities etc.

Also there are employers who won't accept a month long cert - they require weekly ones. You will need this anyway if you want to get illness benefit and again, most employers will have it in their policy that you will be expected to claim any benefit you are entitled to and either have it signed over to them, and they then add to the balance to pay you your full wages. If you don't get paid for sick leave then you will definitely need to claim for illness benefit and you need weekly certs for this - only after a certain period will SW accept certs for longer periods.

My advice is don't be complacent in thinking, 'I have a cert, I'm covered and there is nothing they can do about it'. There is plenty an employer can do if they think your illness is not legitimate.

Edit to add - in my time as a manager, there have been employees who I would happily accept a month long cert from, but there are also those I have experienced who I would under no circumstances accept a month long cert from and I would be asking them to attend the company doctor. A month long cert is a very long time, and a doctor who hands these out would ring alarm bells for me. I would be reluctant to accept a month long cert except in exceptional cases.

yes that was me but if you read the post properly...the problem isnt with my boss its the floor manager

tatli_lokma

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

yes that was me but if you read the post properly...the problem isnt with my boss its the floor manager

I did read your post properly - the issue remains, that despite legitimate reasons for illness, the periods of prolonged absence have now come back to haunt you. Being off was through no fault of your own, but despite this you are getting some flak for it now. It doesn't matter if it is the floor manager, boss, whoever. The fact remains it has caused you difficulties later down the line.

Hence my warning that you shouldn't take any more time than you honestly absolutely need. Whatever you need by all means take, but don't swing the lead, and even still don't assume that because you were legitimately sick it won't have repercussions. If possible, do whatever you can to prove your worth to the company when you return. Being sick with a cert does not guarantee the safety of your job.

xxlauraxxox

Little Ted wrote: »

I did read your post properly - the issue remains, that despite legitimate reasons for illness, the periods of prolonged absence have now come back to haunt you. Being off was through no fault of your own, but despite this you are getting some flak for it now. It doesn't matter if it is the floor manager, boss, whoever. The fact remains it has caused you difficulties later down the line.

Hence my warning that you shouldn't take any more time than you honestly absolutely need. Whatever you need by all means take, but don't swing the lead, and even still don't assume that because you were legitimately sick it won't have repercussions. If possible, do whatever you can to prove your worth to the company when you return. Being sick with a cert does not guarantee the safety of your job.

yes i did take as much time as i needed,if anything i dont just take time off as a laugh or cus i cant take that holiday i needed but couldnt get the time..i cant afford to be out of work as i dont get paid when i m sick/injured and i cant afford 50e a week to see a doctur ,i never once said a cert excuses an illness but a doctur especialy mine isnt a very easy man to get a cert off of

tatli_lokma

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

yes i did take as much time as i needed,if anything i dont just take time off as a laugh or cus i cant take that holiday i needed but couldnt get the time..i cant afford to be out of work as i dont get paid when i m sick/injured and i cant afford 50e a week to see a doctur ,i never once said a cert excuses an illness but a doctur especialy mine isnt a very easy man to get a cert off of

I never said you took time off for a laugh. I was merely pointing out that you had difficulties later on as a result of your time off. Also, getting a weekly cert doesn't cost €50 unless you also need to have a full examination. Most doctors charge €10 - 15 for a renewed cert. For a cert for illness benefit you complete a form from SW and it has to be stamped each week by your GP. to the best of my knowledge, there is no charge for this. You will only need to see the doctor every week if your illness requires it. If you need a month off with injuries one would think it a fair assumption that you would indeed need to see the doctor regularly to check up on your progress.

If on the other hand you had injuries which were not so serious, but ongoing (such as pain from a muscular injury for eg) you might not be able to return to work to full duties, but might be able to return in a limited capacity.

Wishbone Ash

You query seems a little strange to me. If I has survived a car crash and had sustained multiple serious injuries, I wouldn't be worrying too much about what my employer thinks.

Amprodude wrote: »

can the company check up on me while I'm out?

The employer may have a policy of contacting staff. We are expected to contact staff on long term sick leave at least once per week. In the past, when this wasn't done, staff out sick said they felt isolated and that no one cared about them.

Little Ted wrote: »

A month long cert is a very long time, and a doctor who hands these out would ring alarm bells for me. I would be reluctant to accept a month long cert except in exceptional cases.

+1

I would only accept monthly certificates in exceptional circumstances where the employee has suffered a serious illness and is unlikely to return for a long time - e.g. strokes, heart attacks, cancer etc. Even then, it would depend on the employee and their history.

tatli_lokma

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You query seems a little strange to me. If I has survived a car crash and had sustained multiple serious injuries, I wouldn't be worrying too much about what my employer thinks.

Well I could "survive" a crash and have multiple injuries but they might not amount to any more than a few bruises or sore limbs. Its all relative I suppose. Hence why you tend to rely on doctors certificates, as you never can tell - something as simple as slipping on a wet leaf can leave some people in an awful state, while others might walk away from a major smash relatively unscathed.

But as you say, if I had "survived" a horror crash and am lucky to be alive, work would be the least of my concerns initially.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The employer may have a policy of contacting staff. We are expected to contact staff on long term sick leave at least once per week. In the past, when this wasn't done, staff out sick said they felt isolated and that no one cared about them.

we also have that policy for that very reason. It is not intrusive by any means, but more to, as you say, keep the person out sick in the loop and help them to feel a considered part of the team. We would usually give them a heads up on what has been going on, recent changes etc, it wouldn't be done to interrogate or pressure the person back. Actually past inquiring how they are in a friendly manner, you wouldn't be asking them much else about their illness (unless you had suspicions and in that case you still wouldn't be interrogating them, just asking them to attend the company doctor).

Hoboo

Expect your employer to request you see their doctor, pretty standard in contract
Expect a call every week.....good to keep open communication
Expect the need for a cert every week, one month is generally only accepted in exceptional circumstances


Really depends on your injuries though........mental health/ PTS also has to be taken into consideration.

Amprodude

Little Ted wrote: »

I would be reluctant to accept a month long cert except in exceptional cases.

Is a serious car crash not an exceptional case? I did have internal injuries to organs, torn ligaments and fractured ribs that are still sore.

Hoboo

Amprodude wrote: »

Is a serious car crash not an exceptional case? I did have internal injuries to organs and fractured ribs that are still sore.

Its not the crash, its the outcome, and whether you're fit to return to work or not. Someone with fractured ribs is very different to someone whos lost a leg.


You'll need to clarify your original question, I'm not sure what youre asking. How longs a piece of string and all that:)

Amprodude

Hoboo wrote: »

Its not the crash, its the outcome, and whether you're fit to return to work or not. Someone with fractured ribs is very different to someone whos lost a leg.


You'll need to clarify your original question, I'm not sure what youre asking. How longs a piece of string and all that:)

Im not fit to go back honestly. The ligaments and fractured ribs are quiet sore and the nature of my work requires me to lift a lot of boxes in a warehouse and im not too mobile at the moment.

tatli_lokma

Amprodude wrote: »

Is a serious car crash not an exceptional case? I did have internal injuries to organs and fractured ribs that are still sore.

As hoboo says its all relative. But if you had serious internal injuries requiring surgery then fair enough. But at the same time if that is the case I would expect more interaction with a doctor other than one visit a month. Anyone I know who had serious surgical treatment (myself included) was back at doctors and consultants fairly regularly, certainly more than once a month. But I have gone to work with broken ribs as did my husband. Took a few days off initially to rest and then returned to work. I needed lifts to work and had to take it easy but after a few days there was no reason to mope at home.

Amprodude wrote: »

I don't know? I don't intend to come back until the doctor cert runs out. I'm just wondering can the company check up on me while I'm out?

To be honest this would concern me more than the how's, what's and why's of your illness. It does beg a few questions such as are you staying off because you genuinely need the time to recover or because the doctor was over generous with his note. If its the first one fair enough, take the time you need, keep in communication with your job and come back when you're ready. If its the second then you might want to consider if the extra time off is wort the potential consequences. But if its the first one then I do wonder why you would ask if they can check up on you - just seems strange.

Hope you have a speedy recovery anyway and glad you were lucky to get through the accident.


Edit to add - I was able to work with broken ribs cos my work isn't overly physical. But obviously it depends on the nature of the work and if there are different duties you can take on while you are injured. I know not everyone can work with broken ribs.

Amprodude

Little Ted wrote: »

As hoboo says its all relative. But if you had serious internal injuries requiring surgery then fair enough. But at the same time if that is the case I would expect more interaction with a doctor other than one visit a month. Anyone I know who had serious surgical treatment (myself included) was back at doctors and consultants fairly regularly, certainly more than once a month. But I have gone to work with broken ribs as did my husband. Took a few days off initially to rest and then returned to work. I needed lifts to work and had to take it easy but after a few days there was no reason to mope at home.



To be honest this would concern me more than the how's, what's and why's of your illness. It does beg a few questions such as are you staying off because you genuinely need the time to recover or because the doctor was over generous with his note. If its the first one fair enough, take the time you need, keep in communication with your job and come back when you're ready. If its the second then you might want to consider if the extra time off is wort the potential consequences. But if its the first one then I do wonder why you would ask if they can check up on you - just seems strange.

Hope you have a speedy recovery anyway and glad you were lucky to get through the accident.


Edit to add - I was able to work with broken ribs cos my work isn't overly physical. But obviously it depends on the nature of the work and if there are different duties you can take on while you are injured. I know not everyone can work with broken ribs.

Doctor has referred me to physio that i go to weekly. I had damage to internal organs and doctor wanted me to recover and heal up properly before starting physio treatment. Im going for physio now and go twice a week.

I was only asking were medical certs sufficient when im out? I contact company weekly and update them on my progress.

tatli_lokma

In that case, and you are genuinely in need of the time off, take it. Get healthy, go back to work ready for it. Don't go back early just to please people, otherwise you might end up relapsing and worse off for it. However, physio isn't usually reason to take full time off work if you are only going twice a week, so as you say, make sure you have certs, keep in touch with your company, and be sensible about what you do (i.e it goes without saying, don't be out washing the car/cutting the grass etc while claiming you are too sick to attend work, and be careful what you put on facebook! you just never know who will see you!).

If your illness is genuine and you are in need of the time off, then any reasonable employer will cooperate with you.

But do remember, even understanding bosses have a limit, and as already mentioned just having a cert does not mean your period of illness won't have a negative effect on your future position in the company. So the more proactive you can be in protecting your job the better.

I hope you have a quick recovery. Get well soon.

Hoboo

Amprodude wrote: »

Doctor has referred me to physio that i go to weekly. I had damage to internal organs and doctor wanted me to recover and heal up properly before starting physio treatment. Im going for physio now and go twice a week.

I was only asking were medical certs sufficient when im out? I contact company weekly and update them on my progress.

Yes medical certs are sufficient, but as per every contract I've seen in the last 15 years, your employer will most likely reserve the right for you to be examined, at their expense, by a third party doctor. Im surprised this hasn't been discussed with you.

This is actually more Health and Safety / Insurance on their part than double checking the legitimacy of your injuries. No employer (with half a grasp on HR policy) will allow you set foot on their premises until a doctor says you can. They could however request you return to work to fulfill duties which don't require physical exertion, so prepare yourself for some stuffing envelopes !!!:D

scamalert

Hoboo wrote: »

Yes medical certs are sufficient, but as per every contract I've seen in the last 15 years, your employer will most likely reserve the right for you to be examined, at their expense, by a third party doctor. Im surprised this hasn't been discussed with you.

This is actually more Health and Safety / Insurance on their part than double checking the legitimacy of your injuries. No employer (with half a grasp on HR policy) will allow you set foot on their premises until a doctor says you can. They could however request you return to work to fulfill duties which don't require physical exertion, so prepare yourself for some stuffing envelopes !!!:D

Unless you work as an astronaut maybe :rolleyes:
You got cert from doc thats all bring it in,or let someone drop it for you end of story,they might call you to ask how you feel etc,and know when coming back,but certainly not send their doctors or someone to check how you are,would be total stupidity ,person himself can determine when he is fit to comeback,if youll need more time the doc will give it to you,no matter how long/short it takes.

tatli_lokma

scamalert wrote: »

Unless you work as an astronaut maybe :rolleyes:
You got cert from doc thats all bring it in,or let someone drop it for you end of story,they might call you to ask how you feel etc,and know when coming back,but certainly not send their doctors or someone to check how you are,would be total stupidity ,person himself can determine when he is fit to comeback,if youll need more time the doc will give it to you,no matter how long/short it takes.

You need to join the real world. Given the cost many employers incur due to sick leave each year (not just those who pay sick leave but also in terms of lost revenue or additional staffing costs to cover the period of illness) the practice of asking you to attend the company appointed doctor is becoming increasingly common. You most certainly don't have to be an astronaut! The information you have given is incorrect and not at all helpful. You need to get more informed before you give people advice because as it stands what you have said is utter nonsense! If we were all left to decide when we are fit and healthy the cemeteries would be all full and the con artists wouldn't have to work a day in their lives! (not including OP in that before any offence is caused - just referring to some people who take the piss)

Hoboo

scamalert wrote: »

Unless you work as an astronaut maybe :rolleyes:
You got cert from doc thats all bring it in,or let someone drop it for you end of story,they might call you to ask how you feel etc,and know when coming back,but certainly not send their doctors or someone to check how you are,would be total stupidity ,person himself can determine when he is fit to comeback,if youll need more time the doc will give it to you,no matter how long/short it takes.

Sounds like you work for someone playing tribunal roulette, old school waiting to be taken to school.

What I advised is the reality. Only costs us 20/visit for an employee, we have a retainer with the clinic. Apart from that its part of our Employee Assistance Program, which we are required by law to have in place. Ask your boss tomorrow if they have and EAP? Or if they can give you a copy of your hours worked/holidays taken for the last 5 years. Bet the answers ' ya wha ?'

Wishbone Ash

scamalert wrote: »

person himself can determine when he is fit to comeback

What next - motorists need not bother with the NCT - just determine themselves whether their vehicle is roadworthy. Income Tax - sure there's no need for the PAYE system- let employees determine their tax themselves.

Your knowledge of the world of employment must be severely limited. It's standard practice to refer employees to an independent medical officer. We refer several each week via our OHD. The OHD medical officer's opinion over-rides any certificate provided by the employee's GP (and there are a few GP's who we refuse to accept certs from).