Morpeth Roll

spuncy

A piece on the news reminded me that the Morpeth Roll had been transcribed by Ancestry. I've tried searching for some of the names in my tree, but it's a needle in a haystack, even with the more unusual names (I started with James Murphy, d'oh!)

Anyone else have any luck finding the signature of their ancestors?

Ponster

The link for those who have Ancestry accounts.

About Ireland, Lord Viscount Morpeth's Testimonial Roll, 1841

When George Howard (Lord Viscount Morpeth) left his post as Chief Secretary for Ireland, he was presented with a remarkable parting gift for an Englishman: a 420-meter roll of parchment signed by close to 160,000 people. The signers came from all over Ireland and from all levels of society, and some included their address or residence.
The 1841 date of the roll is particularly significant because it predates the beginning of the Great Famine in 1845 and because most 19th-century Irish census records have been destroyed.
Residence location and street information is available on the images for a small percentage of the records. These details have been keyed and can be searched in the Keyword field.
If not post any names here and I'll give them a searching....

For those who don't have access just reply to this thread and I'll give it a searching. Though you had better have a pretty distinct name though. There are 260 John Murphys !

pinkypinky

I'll have a stab for anyone with the surname Ure please.

spuncy

Did a search for Ure but only found 1 possible match: Patt Ur. No indication whereabouts Patt is from - I went back a few pages on the images but nothing about the location.

I wonder could the surrounding names be used to attempt to get a geographic fix on where a particular page or part of a page was signed? Maybe In conjunction with the Tithe Applotments, or other sources (maybe Griffith's?). That could be painstaking with common names, but if there were some unique names in an area, it could yield results.

Not sure if that would work, though, as I don't know how the roll was signed. Was it signed in some big towns and anybody who was in town that day would sign, or was it sent out to some parishes and signatures clustered like that?

L1011

Found nothing of use. So few locations on it and I also doubt that my ancestors in general would have been too quick to sign a testimonial roll for a British Lord...

Two names on it that are *probably* relations but I already knew they were alive then.

The idea about trying to tie it to Griffiths/Tithes is a good one but likely beyond the realms of possibility.

CeannRua

pinkypinky wrote: »

I'll have a stab for anyone with the surname Ure please.

There are two people on the index called John Ewer and Patt Ewers if this could be the same name? I couldn't see Patt on the actual image. There is someone called Patt with an indecipherable surname because it's in a fold in the page but maybe I missed him.

ifconfig

I found my 3rd great grandfather (in a Louth parish section).
I know from parish records that he was born in 1795 , he appears in 1833 Tithe Applotment listings and in the 1854 Griffith Valuations so this record is another piece of evidence.
I also see male cousins as his mother's surname was quite distinct.
I've not found a civil death record so I can possibly conclude that he probably passed away before 1864.

I'm just starting to read about this document on the Maynooth History Dept site.
Were the signatories more or less exclusively Roman Catholics and taken from parishes ?

Hermy

Any Pelly's on that list?

ifconfig

There is a Hugh Pelly listed.

It is hard to determine the parish/location but from going back a page prior to the entry it may be Clontibret/Monaghan but I cannot be certain.

There are no other individuals digitised with the same surname "Pelly"
Some Pail,Paile, O'Peill, Palles, Pallis coming up via the "fuzzy"/phonetic search.

What part of the country was your ancestor living in in the 1840s ?

Hermy

Thanks ifconfig,

The Pelly's that interest me were from East Galway (Loughrea, Portumna, Ballinasloe).
See here for a quick overview.

montgo

Hi, I am looking for Blackburn, John/Matthew/Thomas or William in either Limerick or Tipp. Massey & Dawson were the landlords. Thanks,

Jackobyte

Ponster wrote: »

The link for those who have Ancestry accounts.



For those who don't have access just reply to this thread and I'll give it a searching. Though you had better have a pretty distinct name though. There are 260 John Murphys !

Surname is Beegan if someone wouldn't mind having a go. We are few and far between so probably won't be there anyway.

Ponster

Jackobyte wrote: »

Surname is Beegan if someone wouldn't mind having a go. We are few and far between so probably won't be there anyway.

Augustine Beegan
Luke Beegan
Martin Beegan
Michael Beegan
Patt Bagan
James Begain
Owen Began
Wilm Began
Patt Beggan
Michael Beggen

ifconfig

beat me to it Ponster

Beegan is a name I came across quite recently in doing research.
I've been researching the "Little" surname.
Some are Scottish, some indigenous Irish and there are other origins.
The indigenous Littles came from South Fermanagh/Monaghan/Cavan and originally bore the surname O'Beagain/O'Beacain.
The Scottish Little/Lyttles tended to be planted in Ulster and have a different origin from Dumfries/Galloway, etc.

Some other corruptions of the name arose, such as Beaghan.
One notable Beaghan was apparently awarded land in Connaught having ceased lands in Monaghan/Ballybay.
Some theories suggest that Biggins in Cong/Neale/Ballinrobe/Mayo are part of that bloodline.
I noticed that there are Beegans in South Co Galway, south of Ballinasloe.
Any idea/lore on the origin of the Beegan surname , in your case ?
There were people with the surname Small in the same general area when I researched the 19th century census data speculatively suggesting a possible anglicisation of some branches of the family.

ifconfig

montgo wrote: »

Hi, I am looking for Blackburn, John/Matthew/Thomas or William in either Limerick or Tipp. Massey & Dawson were the landlords. Thanks,

Found 2 John Blackburns and several Matthew Blackburn entries.
Location/parish details not clear.
I wonder if Maynooth History dept have a parish location index to accompany the digitised document to show the grouping of locations on page ranges.

Some sets of pages have something like a post-it at boundaries showing the location/parish.

There are entries for Charles Blackburn where it is indicated clearly as Dunboyne/Clonee.
There are several Christopher Blackburn entries (again location unclear).
Some Blackburns are digitised as Blackburne.

Jackobyte

ifconfig wrote: »

beat me to it Ponster

Beegan is a name I came across quite recently in doing research.
I've been researching the "Little" surname.
Some are Scottish, some indigenous Irish and there are other origins.
The indigenous Littles came from South Fermanagh/Monaghan/Cavan and originally bore the surname O'Beagain/O'Beacain.
The Scottish Little/Lyttles tended to be planted in Ulster and have a different origin from Dumfries/Galloway, etc.

Some other corruptions of the name arose, such as Beaghan.
One notable Beaghan was apparently awarded land in Connaught having ceased lands in Monaghan/Ballybay.
Some theories suggest that Biggins in Cong/Neale/Ballinrobe/Mayo are part of that bloodline.
I noticed that there are Beegans in South Co Galway, south of Ballinasloe.
Any idea/lore on the origin of the Beegan surname , in your case ?
There were people with the surname Small in the same general area when I researched the 19th century census data speculatively suggesting a possible anglicisation of some branches of the family.

Don't really know where we branched off from the other Beaghan's, Behan's, etc., though having searched some of the resources, the name was limited solely to the Galway region during the 1860's IIRC, before expanding to Limerick (my locality) by 1901.

Ponster wrote: »

Augustine Beegan
Luke Beegan
Martin Beegan
Michael Beegan

3 with the exact spelling. Interesting. I'm assuming Galway region, since that is where this distinct spelling seems to originate.

montgo

ifconfig wrote: »

Found 2 John Blackburns and several Matthew Blackburn entries.
Location/parish details not clear.
I wonder if Maynooth History dept have a parish location index to accompany the digitised document to show the grouping of locations on page ranges.

Some sets of pages have something like a post-it at boundaries showing the location/parish.

There are entries for Charles Blackburn where it is indicated clearly as Dunboyne/Clonee.
There are several Christopher Blackburn entries (again location unclear).
Some Blackburns are digitised as Blackburne.

Many thanks for these records but without the location, it might be impossible to to tie them to my ancestors. Surprising that there are so few with that surname listed.

I'm guessing that if Maynooth library had a location index, it would have been included in the transcription. Still worth checking.

Menas

Would you mind looking for 'Slowey', 'Sloey' and 'Hoskins'?

Thanks!

Ponster

Bernard Slowey
Bernard Slowey
James Slowey
John Slowey
John Slowey
John Slowey
John Slowey
John Slowey
Neal Slowey

Peter Hoskins

Menas

Cheers!

chughes

Is there anyone with the surname Archbold on it, possibly from County Kildare and maybe Athy?

Thanks.

Ponster

chughes wrote: »

Is there anyone with the surname Archbold on it, possibly from County Kildare and maybe Athy?

Thanks.

Yes, 31 of them. Have you got a first name (there's usually no way of identifying locations I'm afraid)

chughes

Ponster wrote: »

Yes, 31 of them. Have you got a first name (there's usually no way of identifying locations I'm afraid)

The first name is Thomas.

Cheers.

thadiisgirl

Hi there

Could anyone please see if there is an Edward Lavin, Carrick on Shannon (Roscommon, not Leitrim)

Thanks

Ponster

chughes wrote: »

The first name is Thomas.

Cheers.

Sorry, I'm afraid not.

Bernard Archbold
Edmd Archbold
Edward Archbold
Francis Archbold
George Archbold
James Archbold
John Archbold
Nicholas Archbold
Patrick Archbold
Patt Archbold
Robert Archbold M P
Robert Archbold
William Archbold

Ponster

thadiisgirl wrote: »

Hi there

Could anyone please see if there is an Edward Lavin, Carrick on Shannon (Roscommon, not Leitrim)

Thanks

No Edward Lavin, sorry.

thadiisgirl

Thanks for looking Ponster.

chughes

Thanks Ponster.

Just to clarify, these Archbolds could be anywhere in the country, not just Kildare?

Ponster

chughes wrote: »

Thanks Ponster.

Just to clarify, these Archbolds could be anywhere in the country, not just Kildare?

Pretty much so. Some records have a location listed as the person I guess was instructed to add it, but most don't.

I'll take a look at you're lot later and see if there are locations given.

Waitsian

Some useful advice I found in a comment section on an article about the Roll (Catharine Green, Journal.ie online):

"One key to the signers’ location is that the pages are often started off by the signatures of the P.P. (parish priest) and curate. If you find your family name on a page the clergy signed, you may pin down a location using Jane Lyons’ site which has a search bar atop it, pulldown menu with an 1836 “parish priest index” http://www.from-ireland.net/ And there is a free, online book for 1839 Catholic directory -

http://books.google.ie/books?id=k-MNAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

- which can be searched for clergy names/parishes."

Ponster

Good advice md9maple

I went back to look at Bernard Archbold and spotted this on the previous page so it looks like it's worth sifting through for clues as you suggested.

woody1

i see a william egar on there, is there any way to figure out where hes from ?

deadpan

The Morpeth Roll will be on exhibition in Derrynane House (home of Daniel O'Connell) from the 21st of May to the 30th of June 2013.
Are there any
Cahill/Cahil
Higgins.
Donoghue/
from Valentia/Valencia Island.
Dennehy from Coad, Caherdaniel
Egan from Aghatubrid.
If you do look them up I would be most grateful.
Many thanks.
Deadpan

Ponster

Deadpan, check out this post and see if you can locate the name of the PP for the areas that you are interested in. Otherwise it's almost impossible to link a name to a place.

deadpan

Many thanks for your assistance.
Derrynane, Cahersiven, Parish Priest Pat O'Connell - searching for Dennehy in that area.

Valencia, Parish Priest, Thomas McGinn - searching for Cahil/Cahill; Higgins; Donoghue.

Cahersiven, Parish Priest Edm Fitzgerald; Curate Flor McCarthy - searching for Egan.

JoeHeavener

The Morpeth Roll has just come to my attention! My family name is Heavener,( or Hevener, Heavenor and other variations of the same). They were Palatines and lived in Co Limerick. Mostly in and around the Palaskenry area. Parish of Ardcanny. I wonder if any Hevenor appears on the Morpeth Roll?

Mumha

JoeHeavener wrote: »

The Morpeth Roll has just come to my attention! My family name is Heavener,( or Hevener, Heavenor and other variations of the same). They were Palatines and lived in Co Limerick. Mostly in and around the Palaskenry area. Parish of Ardcanny. I wonder if any Hevenor appears on the Morpeth Roll?

I tried all the variations you gave, and even put Palaskenry in, but no joy I'm afraid.

p.s. loads of Hevenor in the 1940 US census

I presume you know the following..


Name:
John Hevenor

Birth Date:
4 Jun 1795

Age at Death:
82

Death Date:
13 May 1878

Burial Place:
Pallaskenry, County Limerick, Ireland



Name:
Lilly Cooper Hevenor

Birth Date:
1798

Age at Death:
83

Death Date:
22 Mar 1881

Burial Place:
Pallaskenry, County Limerick, Ireland


Name:
Richard Hevenor

Birth Date:
1844

Age at Death:
38

Death Date:
1882

Burial Place:
Pallaskenry, County Limerick, Ireland


John Hevenor
Birth 4 Jun 1795 in Ballidool, Ardcanny, Limerick, Ireland Death 13 May 1878 in Shannongrove, Pallaskenry Co Limerick, Ireland


Henry Heavener
Birth 1781 in Ballidool, Ardcanny, Co. Limerick, Ireland

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/16736567/person/1715390096

edscout

Jackobyte wrote: »

Surname is Beegan if someone wouldn't mind having a go. We are few and far between so probably won't be there anyway.

I have been researching the Beegan Family. All the Beegans in Limerick are decended from Martin Beegan (late of the R.I.C.)....I noticed "Jacobyte" might have some interest in the family. He can contact me.

Waitsian

spuncy wrote: »

Anyone else have any luck finding the signature of their ancestors?

mod9maple wrote: »

Some useful advice I found in a comment section on an article about the Roll (Catharine Green, Journal.ie online):

"One key to the signers’ location is that the pages are often started off by the signatures of the P.P. (parish priest) and curate.

I've been thinking about the Morpeth roll since this thread popped back up. How many of us find certs after 1864 marked with an 'X' instead of a signature? Given that fact, how many men could sign their own name in 1841? Not many I'd suggest, not the tenant farmers anyway. If you find an ancestors name, it's cool to see his own handwriting but also proves he could write. Surely only those who had some means could do so? Write I mean, were educated. Or am I wrong?

As for the search tip about the PPs - surely other, let's call them VIPs for the sake of this thread, would have headed the signatures for each area. Examples might include a local magistrate, or a landowner, or some other bigwig. Any other suggestions? That might also point the way to which particular ancestor of the more than one called AN Other is yours.

Jellybaby1

I checked our family names on the Morpeth Roll. Didn't find my own people but those that signed might have been earlier members of our family, I can't say for sure without addresses or other identifying information. Just perusing the pages I did notice on one page at least twenty-three different names written in the same handwriting so either one person wrote the names of those who couldn't write or it may have been someone writing the names of their tenants or staff. I doubt anyone would have written fictitious names just to increase the numbers, or would they?

Irishgrrl

I have just come across this board while "surfing" google looking for any item i might be lucky enough to find for my gt gt grandfather. There was a Patrick Bridgman on the Morpeth Roll but i do not have an Ancestry subscription. Would be ever so greatful if someone could find his name there and any info with it. Many thanks in advance

Hermy

Unfortunately there is no other information next to his name or indeed any of the names signed on that page.
I'm not sure if it's against Boards rules but I'll post that bit of the image here and it can be removed if needs be.

Is it Bridgeman's from Dublin or Limerick that interests you?

Irishgrrl

Many thanks Hermy. Great to see the image. It is the Bridg(e)man family from Limerick that mainly interests me, but wondering if the Dublin lot are any connection. That will be a research later down the track for me until i have exhausted all the avenues for the Limerick lot. At this stage they seem to be around Askeaton, Kilcornan & Stonehall (possibly Cowpark) Ballyhahill, Finnoo (often spelt in varying ways) Whiskey Hall (which I think is a part of Ballyhahill), Knocknaboula, Loghill. Other areas that have come up are Robertstown, Shanagolden, Barracks

wexflyer

Contrary to what some have said, I think you can successfully identify locations, at the parish level, if you are familiar with other names in the same locality. The petition was clearly organized by (Catholic) parish, and tonight I came up with at least 6 family members without too much difficulty.

Finding William Potts was easy - only person of the name in the index. Of Our Lady's Island, and a good decent United Irishman, on record as being "out" in '98 with his Queen Anne gun. But having found William, I also found multiple others - at least two of the next three signatures are also relatives, and maybe all three, as well as some others on the same page.

A different example was some Brennans of the parish of Glynn - lots of Brennans in the index, so how to find my particular lot? Well, they had the good fortune to have a neighbor by the name of Valentine Franklin. It was easy-peasy to find him, and presto, there on the same page was my great-great-grandfathers signature, along with either his brother's or father's. If one of the John Brennan signatures is that of his father, then it is that of a blacksmith who made the pikes for the United Irishmen in '98. In any case, the trick will be to find other easily identifiable local names, such as that of Valentine Franklin, to use for other locations.

Finally, I will comment that many of the Wexford contributions are readily identifiable as being from Wexford, due to unique combinations of local surnames (e.g. Waddy, Hore, Lambert, Howlin, Sinnott, Hayes, etc. etc. etc.) - When you see large numbers of such surnames, it is Wexford for certain!