diesel verses petrol. the future.

corkgsxr

im coming to the opinion that diesels have started to peak in development. the current advances were getting are smaller engines with bigger turbos which is leading to problems as tolerances are getting so small the slightest bit of wear or abuse and parts are eating themselves.

petrols stopped for a while but are on the up again. power and mpg is rising. different forms of turbocharging and supercharging are working brilliantly and still using less compication than a basic turbo diesel.

few option for ye. petrol vs diesel and one or 2 others for curiosity

megafan

:eek:1lt Mondeo?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/189815/2013-ford-mondeo-1-0-litre-ecoboost-confirmed-but-not-for-australia/


http://www.ford.co.uk/FordFleet/NewsAndReviews/FordForBusiness/2012/February/Focus-EcoBoost-Engine

MuppetCheck

No option regarding Hydrogen fuel cells? They are the future.

corkgsxr

MuppetCheck wrote: »

No option regarding Hydrogen fuel cells? They are the future.

cant add i now but if the mods want to.


they have viable hydrogen engines ready since 2008 but it doesnt seem to be moving much.

too many problems in making it available on a big scale apparently

corkgsxr

Sitec wrote: »

When the range and charging times of electric vehicles improve they will sell in great volume.

thats the problem. its not a when its a IF.

it could prob be solved in the morning but cost is the issue. its making a solution that is a reasonable cost is the problem.




i think the closest were going to get to a electric car is a hybrid turbine engine.

Boom_Bap

Follow the Germans.

In Berlin you can pickup an Electric car on the street, it's opened via an app or a tag. The keys are in the glove box.
You use the car and when parked, keys in the glove box, lock and scan to say you are finished. You have an account that is charged. You wont be able to pick up a car that has 10% or less battery power.

There are then a team that monitors the cars and does check ups and charging.

https://www.multicity-carsharing.de/

HandsomeDan

Electric cars are obviously the future.

corkgsxr

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Electric cars are obviously the future.

not the way they though. a big advance is needed

cgarrad

The future. As in 6 months in the future

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/futures/xl1

313 mpg on the combined cycle ;-O



Recent triple if battery capacity.

One or two more discoveries like this would bring a ten to thirty fold increase in range

http://www.gizmag.com/crushed-silicon-lithium-ion-battery/24885/

Dartz

Multifuel gas turbines.

Run on anything flammable. Never give a **** again. Technially Low MPG.... but meh.... when you can run on Jet Fuel, or cheap alcohol, or gas.... or something cheap and untaxed.

I want a Jet car

ba_barabus

Dartz wrote: »

or something cheap and untaxed.

Hahahaha

Matt Simis

cgarrad wrote: »

Recent triple if battery capacity.
One or two more discoveries like this would bring a ten to thirty fold increase in range
http://www.gizmag.com/crushed-silicon-lithium-ion-battery/24885/

If it hasnt happened yet..
See the problem here is every month there is such an announcement and yet today, still the same crap battery performance. Amazing announcements of Battery performance breakthroughs deserve a "where are they now?". Must be super easy to get grant money if you promise to make EVs viable.

Feb 2006: Nanotech promises the first viable alternative to batteries in 200 years
http://www.gizmag.com/go/5192/

March 2009: Battery Performance tech to increase Lithium battery 100x performance increase
http://www.gizmag.com/lithium-ion-battery-breakthrough-mit/11244/

April 2010: Silicon-based anode to boost lithium-ion battery performance 10x
http://www.gizmag.com/silicon-based-lithium-ion-battery-anode/14752/


Back in the realworld, most commercial EVs are still <150km range in 2013 and they fact they are even there is more to do with Aero and powertrain plus Regen Braking and other tech than actual chemical battery improvements.

The Pheasant

I think soon it'll be keep an electric for city driving/short trips and then bring out the petrol for the longer out of range journeys

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

No option regarding Hydrogen fuel cells? They are the future.

There are a few fuel cells coming in 2015, such as the Mercedes F-cell.

Hydrogen advantages, Clean, good range, recharge times, Electric drive.

Disadvantages, hugely energy intensive in the production making it (currently non viable), Greedy energy companies will control it and Governments tax it, it will never be as cheap as electricity to fuel.

I would imagine that by the time hydrogen can be produced efficiently, batteries will be more than good enough.

Cungi

+1 for hydrogen.

The problem with electric cars (besides the charge times and range) is that a lot of electricty is produced from fossil fuel burning power plants.

When hydrogen becomes readily available it will be a 100% clean renewable resource

HandsomeDan

Cungi wrote: »

+1 for hydrogen.

The problem with electric cars (besides the charge times and range) is that a lot of electricty is produced from fossil fuel burning power plants.

When hydrogen becomes readily available it will be a 100% clean renewable resource

???

Em, where do you think the energy to produce the hydrogen will come from?

djivide_

HandsomeDan wrote: »

???

Em, where do you think the energy to produce the hydrogen will come from?

Wind / solar / tidal ?

There could be any form of renewable energy forms producing hydrogen.
its not like a power grid that needs constant energy. plus waste power at
night for example could be used to produce hydrogen.

Dartz

ba_barabus wrote: »

Hahahaha

If it's liquid and flammable, it'll run on it.

Denatured alcohol. Methanol.

Plenty of flammable liquids out there Revenue have never heard of.

HandsomeDan

djivide_ wrote: »

Wind / solar / tidal ?

There could be any form of renewable energy forms producing hydrogen.
its not like a power grid that needs constant energy. plus waste power at
night for example could be used to produce hydrogen.

Off peak power could and would be used to charge electric cars also.

Renewable to hydrogen to mechanical is a laughable 25 percent efficient compared to battery's 85 percent.

Hydrogren would be produced using exaclty the same sources as battery, only massively less efficiently.

Cungi

HandsomeDan wrote: »

???

Em, where do you think the energy to produce the hydrogen will come from?

Even if we assume the production is done completely by fossil fuels (which as djivide said above could be done with renewable resources), without consumers using this method to charge their vehicles it will drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption.

Maybe the production of hydrogen wont be 100% clean but it could be if done with renewable resources.

dh0011

+1 for petrol.
The new skoda rapid was reviewed in the irish times and if memory serves they said with average driving it would take 14 years to recoup the initial extra outlay for buying the more expensive diesel. Also the extra cost of parts for the diesel make it a simple decision would mean that it will probably never pay to buy the diesel.

Big Nasty

Mr. Fusion is The Future of motoring.

ba_barabus

Dartz wrote: »

If it's liquid and flammable, it'll run on it.

Denatured alcohol. Methanol.

Plenty of flammable liquids out there Revenue have never heard of.

I understand the mechanics of it but it was the untaxed comment I was laughing at.

People a few years ago started using cooking oil in old diesels as fuel and prices doubled over night in the likes of Tesco.

If it can be taxed it will be

HandsomeDan

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Off peak power could and would be used to charge electric cars also.

Renewable to hydrogen to mechanical is a laughable 25 percent efficient compared to battery's 85 percent.

Hydrogren would be produced using exaclty the same sources as battery, only massively less efficiently.

Someone that gets it, amazing!

HandsomeDan

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Off peak power could and would be used to charge electric cars also.

Renewable to hydrogen to mechanical is a laughable 25 percent efficient compared to battery's 85 percent.

Hydrogren would be produced using exaclty the same sources as battery, only massively less efficiently.

Exactly!

Cungi

Cungi wrote: »

Even if we assume the production is done completely by fossil fuels (which as djivide said above could be done with renewable resources), without consumers using this method to charge their vehicles it will drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption.

Maybe the production of hydrogen wont be 100% clean but it could be if done with renewable resources.

Why would you even consider it when it's hugely more inefficient than charging batteries ?

The fuel cell is inefficient, and it only goes to charge a battery anyway to power the electric motor.

So taking wind to make hydrogen, to power a fuel cell to charge a battery to power a motor, it just doesn't make sense.

Just take the wind and charge the battery !

In the future your electric car charging at work or at home can and will be used as storage for renewable energy, they will take a % of the power in your battery. At your request of course.

Spent batteries will also be used for storage and the ESB are already looking into this.

What I would like to see is when an e.v battery no longer provides sufficient range, the electric company will buy your old pack and you get a new one.

BorneTobyWilde

A Petrol car runs on Petrol
A Diesel car runs on Diesel
An Electric car runs on endless types of battery
Problem

See if electric cars used same battery across all the brands toyota Nissan Volvo ..then why could you not have an Electric station, Where you pull in and your battery is lifted by Robot and new battery is fitted quicker than you can fill a tank of Diesel
And off you go .

Once chargers are everywhere I see no reason that even the Leaf isn't good enough for everyone.

The E.U need to get work places to install chargers so that people who need them and "only" people that need them will only be allowed to charge. It would greatly cut down on the cost of chargers. And make the Leaf far more practical.

There are lots of people that commute long distance to the Luas red cow for instance, they can charge there, so what's the problem ?

It's all about the chargers.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A Petrol car runs on Petrol
A Diesel car runs on Diesel
An Electric car runs on endless types of battery
Problem

See if electric cars used same battery across all the brands toyota Nissan Volvo ..then why could you not have an Electric station, Where you pull in and your battery is lifted by Robot and new battery is fitted quicker than you can fill a tank of Diesel
And off you go .

Unfortunately that system never took off and I think the company "better place" that had that robotic system up and running are gone bust or nearly.

The car manufacturers don't use the same batteries, there are many various types.

But it had it's advantages but the car companies will never agree on any one standard, + electric car technology is changing fast.

corkgsxr

And charge time too. They need to double the distance and half the charge time to make them properly viable


And manufacturers will never agree on a battery type

djivide_

What everyone is forgetting its going to take a huge leap in battery charge times before people will even think about it. If your out and about and suddenly have low battery people are not going to pull into a garage and wait 8 hours to charge their car.

on the other hand if someone can pull into a service station and plug in a hydrogen pipe and be fueled in 10-15 minutes and be on their way again which do you think is going to take off.


I never claimed that renewable -> hydrogen -> electrical was the most efficent i just believe its the simplest solution and easiest to retro fit current infastructure.

And at the end of the day whats easiest is generally what prevails.

HandsomeDan

djivide_ wrote: »

I never claimed that renewable -> hydrogen -> electrical was the most efficent i just believe its the simplest solution and easiest to retro fit current infastructure.

And at the end of the day whats easiest is generally what prevails.

That the thibg, the power transimission network already exists. Surely installing a few high power plugs here are there would be simpler than installing underground high pressure hydrogen tanks and running pressurised tankers around the place to fill them?

Bpmull

When graphene is produced in large quantities and is used in the electric car battery's even just graphene electrodes then range or charge time will no Longer be an issue.