Meeting vehicles that can't keep to their side of the white line

monkeypants

Morning all. I'd like some opinions on the below.

There's a road in Swords that connects Brackenstown to Knocksedan. It's not a particularly wide road and it's not in great condition either on one side (left side when heading away from Swords). No idea what the speed limit on it is and I tend to take it easy enough, except when I'm on a bike, when I pedal just as fast as my short, fat, hairies can go.

Most of my usage of this road is during my work commute, so we're talking 06:30 and maybe 16:00. On the morning run, I quite frequently meet a bus coming the other way, either a Dublin Bus on the way to start the 41 route or a Swords Express. Neither can keep to their own side of the white line, which is continuous I believe, due to the width of the road.

This is not a big deal, as I can slow down further and make my way through with care, but I wonder what the legal situation is for a vehicle using a road that it's too big for? Is it complicated further by the presence of a continuous white line, which isn't supposed to be crossed, but which cannot be avoided?

Solair

I would assume you just have to have some give and take. A lot of minor roads in Ireland (and Europe on general) weren't necessarily designed for cars at all.

You should obviously keep over as much as possible and not swing our in front of other traffic.

If the narrowing / obstruction is on your side, you should be yielding to on coming traffic.

Taking it easy and give and take are essential on those kinds of roads though.

kneemos

Never heard of a width restriction on a minor road.Good question.

Chippy01

I would have thought that if the road is unsuitable for certain types of traffic, there would be a signpost at each end of the road informing drivers accordingly.

djimi

Chippy01 wrote: »

I would have thought that if the road is unsuitable for certain types of traffic, there would be a signpost at each end of the road informing drivers accordingly.

Youd think that alright, but sadly its not usually the case as I can attest to with first hand experience of nearly being wiped out on numerous occasions by trucks/horseboxes flying around a blind bend without any care or consideration that their vehicle is too wide for the road and is half way across the other side...

creedp

djimi wrote: »

Youd think that alright, but sadly its not usually the case as I can attest to with first hand experience of nearly being wiped out on numerous occasions by trucks/horseboxes flying around a blind bend without any care or consideration that their vehicle is too wide for the road and is half way across the other side...

I think its part of the course on regional roads. Its a regular occurence to have the passenger side mirror is slapping off vegetation trying to avoid oncoming cars on these roads even if there is plenty of room for 2 cars to pass .. I think it could be linked to 'because I'm worth it syndrome'!!

Recently I got my driver side mirror ripped off by a car even when I was slapping the vegetation because the other driver (12 plate Golf) calmy explained to me that she had to move out suddenly to avoid a patch of mud!!

Anan1

creedp wrote: »

I think its part of the course on regional roads. Its a regular occurence to have the passenger side mirror is slapping off vegetation trying to avoid oncoming cars on these roads even if there is plenty of room for 2 cars to pass .. I think it could be linked to 'because I'm worth it syndrome'!!

Recently I got my driver side mirror ripped off by a car even when I was slapping the vegetation because the other driver (12 plate Golf) calmy explained to me that she had to move out suddenly to avoid a patch of mud!!

Best thing to do there is to move right out into the middle of the road, bringing them down to a reasonable speed, then move back in and pass.

mickdw

Chippy01 wrote: »

I would have thought that if the road is unsuitable for certain types of traffic, there would be a signpost at each end of the road informing drivers accordingly.

You would need alot of signs around rural Ireland if that was the case. It would also shut down all local industry and the people would starve as supplies would not get to our supermarkets etc.
Only option is to drive with care. I drive every day in 80kph/100 kph roads where you have to keep in when meeting cars, never mind trucks.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Best thing to do there is to move right out into the middle of the road, bringing them down to a reasonable speed, then move back in and pass.

This would be a sure fire way to have a head on if you tried it often enough on the roads I drive on...

kneemos

I think the op is wondering who would be to blame if there was a coming together.

MarkR

What's worse is the lazy drivers who couldn't be arsed to stay on their side of the road.

creedp

Anan1 wrote: »

Best thing to do there is to move right out into the middle of the road, bringing them down to a reasonable speed, then move back in and pass.

To be honest with you I think that might almost be like a game of Russian Roulette with some drivers .. in the case I referred to above everything was fine until the last minute when the patch of mud suddenly materialised!

monkeypants

kneemos wrote: »

I think the op is wondering who would be to blame if there was a coming together.

It was more a hypothetical, but yeah, there's always a chance that something could happen one day. If I'm hit while I'm on my side of the line by someone who isn't, is it their fault?

I'm not referring so much to people who choose not to drive on their side for whatever reason, more on those who cannot.

recyclebin

I've had some serious close calls in the last few weeks with cars coming around bends at speed with most of their car on the wrong side of the white line. The roads would not even be that narrow.

Solair

I was driving along a very narrow road in the Cork suburbs a few months ago and I completely stopped to let a driver pass as there wasn't enough room.
She drove at huge speed past, took her own mirror clean off on my mirror which was only slightly scratched.

The funny bit was she then got out of the car and started shouting at me for driving into her and wanted me to pay for her wing mirror and apparently I'd 'come out of nowhere'.

I was completely stopped (with my headlights on during the day).

I asked the driver behind to witness it and she backed down immediately. I assume she was a scammer or just a complete chancer. Either way she was unbelievably aggressive and abusive.

I live on a very narrow urban road, and I'm well used to the ettiquite of getting two cars to fit down a tiny street with parked cars, high walls etc. It's normal enough to have to fold in your wing mirrors as you're passing!

We still get the odd muppet though who will decide to drive down at speed or (more usually) force their way down and not use the wide parts / entrances / driveways etc to duck out of the way and let traffic pass.

I also had a situation where on the narrowest part of that road (cars parked all down one side for about 500+ meters) this delivery van came straight head-on towards me (instead of waiting until the section was clear). He then continued to push down the street and wouldn't reverse the couple of meters to allow traffic to clear. Traffic backed up behind me as there was nowhere to go and no possibility of reversing half a km down the street. He held his hand on the horn for about 3 mins! People ended up getting out of their cars to try and reason with him. He took out a newspaper and locked the doors and put the radio on full blast!

At this stage we had to direct about 20 cars back down the street. I'd say we were a good 30 mins dealing with this guy's deliberate obstruction!

Give and take is absolutely essential on Irish roads (or any European old roads for that matter). They're not wide enough to accommodate traffic simultaneously in two directions at all times.

My other pet peeve is people who accelerate at huge speed onto roundabouts (especially ones that have huge ornamental gardens in the middle and you can't see across). You shouldn't ever plough onto a roundabout at enormous speed as there's always a risk that someone else will think they have enough time to get on / won't be able to see you over the shrubbery!

I don't know how many times I've seen near side-on collisions on various roundabouts around Douglas in Cork and elsewhere.

Rules are rules, but common sense interpretation of the reality you're faced with is also vital!

monkeypants

Solair wrote: »

We still get the odd muppet though who will decide to drive down at speed or (more usually) force their way down and not use the wide parts / entrances / driveways etc to duck out of the way and let traffic pass.

Don't want to generalise (much), but these drivers normally have common brands of vehicle... :pac:

As for the delivery driver, I'd call his company on that behaviour.

Rural road get even narrower as the years go on as the verge and hedge creep onto the road.

I have never seen roadworks where that is claimed back

ba_barabus

I was witness to a crash where one car came around the turn in center. The other driver was touching the hedge.

Driver one claimed it was the young guy who was touching the ditches fault as, simply he was a young guy. She got very irate with the Garda before he lost the cool and told her exactly why she was in the wrong before warning her that she would be arrested for breach of the peace if she raised her voice to him again.

She had given the young guy dogs abuse before the Garda arrived. So much so he wouldn't get back out of the car.

I've always been told keep as far left as possible and stop if you are out of space. If the other driver crosses the line and hits your car it will be their fault.

Solair

I really don't like that kind of arrogant attitude that some drivers get. I know it might be shock / defensiveness but, sometimes you're just *wrong* and have to accept it. Shouting at everyone at the scene of an accident only makes you look worse.

monkeypants

Solair wrote: »

I really don't like that kind of arrogant attitude that some drivers get. I know it might be shock / defensiveness but, sometimes you're just *wrong* and have to accept it. Shouting at everyone at the scene of an accident only makes you look worse.

Indeed. Don't say a word, just take pictures.

Solair

monkeypants wrote: »

Indeed. Don't say a word, just take pictures.

& insurance details

monkeypants

Solair wrote: »

& insurance details

One of the photos would be of the various bits of paper in the windscreen.

seamus

Legally speaking a vehicle may cross a solid white line to avoid an obstruction on their side of the road. So that would be the legal position when the vehicle is too wide for its lane, IMO.

I suspect the vehicle which is too large for its lane is the one which has primary responsibility for ensuring that oncoming traffic can pass safely, and to stop if they're unsure.