ROTR Parking Q

Hanley

Hopefully this is quick and simple...

Can you park in a bus lane once it's not "in service"?

Specifically talking about the Malahide Road @ Kavangh's Pub heading towards Clontarf for those of you that know it. Planning to move my gym location, but the parking options are a bis sus at the moment.

Thanks

Atomic Pineapple

No, if its not in use it means any vehicle can use it as a lane.

listermint

draffodx wrote: »

No, if its not in use it means any vehicle can use it as a lane.

But wouldnt it require double yellow lines then ?

pippip

Think you generlly find clearway signs with bus lanes.

Hanley

listermint wrote: »

But wouldnt it require double yellow lines then ?

pippip wrote: »

Think you generlly find clearway signs with bus lanes.

Just to clarify - no double yellow lines, and no clearway signs that I can see. Just a sign saying the bus lane is in operation monday-saturday 7am-10.00am and 12pm-7pm.

The lane is the one heading towards Clontarf. Two traffic lanes in that direction, one a bus lane, one a "normal" lane with broken white line in the middle.

Turtle-TM

Hanley wrote: »

Just to clarify - no double yellow lines, and no clearway signs that I can see. Just a sign saying the bus lane is in operation monday-saturday 7am-10.00am and 12pm-7pm.

The lane is the one heading towards Clontarf. Two traffic lanes in that direction, one a bus lane, one a "normal" lane with broken white line in the middle.

if you've ever driven through ranelagh after 7pm you'll see people park in the bus lane from mount pleasant sq to the canal. seems to be a given that if its not marked a clear way, or you're not blocking a bus stop its ok.

Since it's an active lane, if you parked in it, could you be fined for dangerous parking?

Max Power1

Deleted User wrote: »

Since it's an active lane, if you parked in it, could you be fined for dangerous parking?

yup, saw a guy up in court the other day for it!

Mr Benevolent

Might as well park in the middle of a motorway, OP. I use bus lanes all the time out of hours and having someone parked in the middle of a usable lane indicates to me a lack of driver awareness and no common courtesy.

djimi

Hanley wrote: »

Specifically talking about the Malahide Road @ Kavangh's Pub heading towards Clontarf for those of you that know it. Planning to move my gym location, but the parking options are a bis sus at the moment.

If parking is that limited that you have to resort to people potentially parking on a bus lane then would you not be better off finding a better location either way?

listermint

Confab wrote: »

Might as well park in the middle of a motorway, OP. I use bus lanes all the time out of hours and having someone parked in the middle of a usable lane indicates to me a lack of driver awareness and no common courtesy.

Your implying that it is indeed a useable lane.

Would you have the same opinion of folks just parked at the side of any street ?

Theres nothing common courtesy about it, If its allowed then its allowed for a reason. If it wasnt allowed then it would be a clear way or have double yellows on it. Your out of ours bus lane usage has no impact on this.

Yakuza

At the foot of the Malahide Road (at that pub) , the Bus Lane ceases operation at 1000 and becomes a Pay and Display until 1900:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=53.365842,-6.228926&spn=0.000026,0.028625&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.3658,-6.22895&panoid=Nkiov0VSfpDXvxWqeUAqCg&cbp=12,113.8,,0,-0.51

Going on this, it looks like you're ok to park there (once you've paid) (or for free outside of the P+D hours (excluding 0700-1000)).

Atomic Pineapple

listermint wrote: »

But wouldnt it require double yellow lines then ?

Possibly, I wasn't picturing bus lanes in built up areas for some reason!

challengemaster

Hanley wrote: »

Just to clarify - no double yellow lines, and no clearway signs that I can see. Just a sign saying the bus lane is in operation monday-saturday 7am-10.00am and 12pm-7pm.

Outside of operation times, unless otherwise stated the bus lane is effectively the most left lane and the one which you should be driving in.

So you'd be essentially parking in the middle of the main driving lane.

seamus

It's odd, but provided there are no signs or road markings saying otherwise, then there's nothing legally wrong with parking in the bus lane.

Drive through Rathmines any evening, especially on the weekend, and you find the bus lanes lined with parked cars

So you'd be essentially parking in the middle of the main driving lane.

You'd be parking on the left hand side of the road. Same as anyone who parks on a normal two-lane road.

dickwod1

If you park in a busy bus lane your car would be lifted for causing an obstruction and it would be impounded regardless of the time at night or lack of signs,

You cant block a busy road.

But this one has parking between 10.00 -19.00 so would be ok afterwards

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

You cant block a busy road.

Care to point out where in the rules of the road it states that you can't park on a busy road?

dickwod1

seamus wrote: »

Care to point out where in the rules of the road it states that you can't park on a busy road?

I didn't say you cant park on a busy road I said you cant block a busy road

The Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1983 - 1998 gives power to local authorities to tow away vehicles that have been illegally parked and are causing serious congestion.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Care to point out where in the rules of the road it states that you can't park on a busy road?

Im not sure if this has been amended, but if not, this may be relevant.

seamus

"And" being the important word there. If the vehicle is legally parked, it cannot be lifted, no matter how much it may be "blocking" traffic.

dickwod1

seamus wrote: »

"And" being the important word there. If the vehicle is legally parked, it cannot be lifted, no matter how much it may be "blocking" traffic.

?

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

?

The Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1983 - 1998 gives power to local authorities to tow away vehicles that have been illegally parked and are causing serious congestion.

The car has to be illegally parked in order for it to be towed or lifted.

It doesn't matter how busy the road may be or how much of an irritant the parked vehicle is, provided that the vehicle is legally parked there is nothing wrong with it.

dickwod1

seamus wrote: »

The car has to be illegally parked in order for it to be towed or lifted.

It doesn't matter how busy the road may be or how much of an irritant the parked vehicle is, provided that the vehicle is legally parked there is nothing wrong with it.

I can only presume your talking out loud to yourself because everything you have said has nothing to do with anything I've said

Your obviously not reading any previous post properly

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

I can only presume your talking out loud to yourself because everything you have said has nothing to do with anything I've said

Your obviously not reading any previous post properly

You said

If you park in a busy bus lane your car would be lifted for causing an obstruction and it would be impounded regardless of the time at night or lack of signs

This is just plain incorrect.

dickwod1

seamus wrote: »

You said

This is just plain incorrect.

dickwod1 wrote: »

If you park in a busy bus lane your car would be lifted for causing an obstruction and it would be impounded regardless of the time at night or lack of signs,
You cant block a busy road.

Please don't quote me and leave out the vital part of what I said so as to suit your own argument

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

Please don't quote me and leave out the vital part of what I said so as to suit your own argument

The only circumstance where you can't "block" a busy road is where the road is narrow and you have parked opposite another vehicle, preventing anyone from getting past. In that case your vehicle is illegally parked and the point is moot. Busy or not, you can't block a road, period.

Provided that cars can get around yours, you can park all you like on a busy road and cause as much congestion as you wish, so long as your car is legally parked.

listermint

dickwod1 wrote: »

Please don't quote me and leave out the vital part of what I said so as to suit your own argument

What does a busy road have to do with it ? Camden Street is busy in the evenings every evening. Whats your point ?

djimi

Surely any car that is parked in such a way as to block a main road and cause serious congestion would be deemed to be parked illegally?

seamus

djimi wrote: »

Surely any car that is parked in such a way as to block a main road and cause serious congestion would be deemed to be parked illegally?

Only if the obstruction can be said to pose a danger to traffic or pedestrians (e.g. by obscuring an entrance or a traffic light).

Simply causing congestion is not reason enough to say a car is illegally parked. That's a traffic management issue and is up to the local authority to deal with by changing the signage on that road.

I have no doubt that in the event that a parked car had caused absolute gridlock, the gardai might step in and do what was needed to move it, but that would be an exceptional circumstance and the driver could not be charged with illegal parking.

dickwod1

djimi wrote: »

Surely any car that is parked in such a way as to block a main road and cause serious congestion would be deemed to be parked illegally?

Exactly what I was about to write

listermint

djimi wrote: »

Surely any car that is parked in such a way as to block a main road and cause serious congestion would be deemed to be parked illegally?

Surely you have examples of such, where this hasnt been accounted for with double yellows or clearway signs......

So the point would be mute no ? The DCC traffic division doesnt just sit on its laurals i would imagine you would be hard pressed to find an example where your point could be valid.

Which is why it is not illegal to park under such conditions.

dickwod1

seamus wrote: »

Only if the obstruction can be said to pose a danger to traffic or pedestrians (e.g. by obscuring an entrance or a traffic light).

Simply causing congestion is not reason enough to say a car is illegally parked. That's a traffic management issue and is up to the local authority to deal with by changing the signage on that road.

Thats total nonsense

if there's two lanes of traffic and your blocking one then you would be lifted (thats what a busy road is)

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

Thats total nonsense

if there's two lanes of traffic and your blocking one then you would be lifted (thats what a busy road is)

Now that's total nonsense.

You see vehicles parked on busy roads all the time blocking one lane. I have never heard of someone's vehicle being lifted for being parked legally.

listermint

dickwod1 wrote: »

Thats total nonsense

if there's two lanes of traffic and your blocking one then you would be lifted (thats what a busy road is)

Give me an example of such. Because there are plenty of examples in central dublin where this is simply not the case. The road is busy but the bus lane is out of hours and is not a clearway or otherwise.

dickwod1

listermint wrote: »

Surely you have examples of such, where this hasnt been accounted for with double yellows or clearway signs......

So the point would be mute no ? The DCC traffic division doesnt just sit on its laurals i would imagine you would be hard pressed to find an example where your point could be valid.

Which is why it is not illegal to park under such conditions.

Ok there is always two lanes of traffic here if you were parked HERE you would be lifted 100% (no double yellows or clearways either)

djimi

So basically I can just stop my car in the middle of any main road, provided there are no double yellow lines? Even if it means completely blocking all traffic on the carraigeway?

Im not arguing btw; I just didnt think that this would be the case.

listermint

dickwod1 wrote: »

Ok there is always two lanes of traffic here if you were parked HERE you would be lifted 100% (no double yellows or clearways either)

Is there a bus lane here ?

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

Ok there is always two lanes of traffic here if you were parked HERE you would be lifted 100% (no double yellows or clearways either)

Oh no you wouldn't. On what basis would the car be lifted?

djimi wrote: »

So basically I can just stop my car in the middle of any main road, provided there are no double yellow lines? Even if it means completely blocking all traffic on the carraigeway?

In the middle? No. You can park on the left, sure.

As listermint says you very rarely see this precisely because the local authorities put up lines and signage in places where it would be a massive inconvenience if people parked there.

listermint

djimi wrote: »

So basically I can just stop my car in the middle of any main road, provided there are no double yellow lines? Even if it means completely blocking all traffic on the carraigeway?

Im not arguing btw; I just didnt think that this would be the case.

Lovely definition, I like where you put in carriageway making this out to be a dual carriageway issue. When its a discussion about multiple lanes inc Bus Lanes

djimi

seamus wrote: »

In the middle? No. You can park on the left, sure.

As listermint says you very rarely see this precisely because the local authorities put up lines and signage in places where it would be a massive inconvenience if people parked there.

What about where the road is not sufficiently wide enough to make a difference whether you park to the left or in the middle?

listermint wrote: »

Lovely definition, I like where you put in carriageway making this out to be a dual carriageway issue. When its a discussion about multiple lanes inc Bus Lanes

I used carraigeway to mean that the car was blocking one lane/side of the road, as opposed to creating a total obstuction that could not be passed on either side of the road.

dickwod1

listermint wrote: »

Is there a bus lane here ?

Here or Here

seamus

djimi wrote: »

What about where the road is not sufficiently wide enough to make a difference whether you park to the left or in the middle?

Well I can't think of any example where parking on the left and parking in the middle are the same. Provided that there is room for another vehicle to get past, then there's no issue. If there's no room for another vehicle to pass yours, then you're parked illegally.

listermint

dickwod1 wrote: »

Here or Here

IF there is no signage to say otherwise then yes you are well within your rights to park there. I can see any signage from streetview. But addtionally i wont make an assumption because the images are probably 4 years old.

djimi

seamus wrote: »

Well I can't think of any example where parking on the left and parking in the middle are the same. Provided that there is room for another vehicle to get past, then there's no issue. If there's no room for another vehicle to pass yours, then you're parked illegally.

You mean if there is sufficient room to pass without having to cross the white line, or just sufficient room to pass full stop?

dickwod1

listermint wrote: »

IF there is no signage to say otherwise then yes you are well within your rights to park there. I can see any signage from streetview. But addtionally i wont make an assumption because the images are probably 4 years old.

Wrong if your blocking a road you will be lifted for causing an obstruction.

Uriel.

djimi wrote: »

So basically I can just stop my car in the middle of any main road, provided there are no double yellow lines? Even if it means completely blocking all traffic on the carraigeway?

Im not arguing btw; I just didnt think that this would be the case.

No, not in the middle of the road, but along the side. Sure you see it all the time.

I think Seamus is dead right in his view to be honest. His view has been my experience of it. You can park at the side of any road (providing no double yellow lines etc...) and provided you don't park in such a way that other traffic can't get around you.

Looking at the OP's question, I think the situation on Gardiner Street is the prime example where parking is allowed in bus lanes outside of bus lane operation hours. See attached image - you can even see where the council has marked specific spots (double yellow lines) as being off limits, while the rest is free reign

listermint

dickwod1 wrote: »

Wrong if your blocking a road you will be lifted for causing an obstruction.

You keep on repeating this line.

But you have yet to clarify what blocking a road is ( you could turn around and say parked 45 to the kerb judging by symantics) and secondly under what act could a car be removed and someone be charged with illegal parking.

Explain in detail before writing the same nonsense.

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

Wrong if your blocking a road you will be lifted for causing an obstruction.

Only if you're illegally parked.

djimi wrote: »

You mean if there is sufficient room to pass without having to cross the white line, or just sufficient room to pass full stop?

If there's a solid white line, it's illegal to park.
If there's a broken white line, then parking is legal provided that traffic can get around you within the entire space of the road (i.e. crossing the broken line).

dickwod1

listermint wrote: »

You keep on repeating this line.

But you have yet to clarify what blocking a road is ( you could turn around and say parked 45 to the kerb judging by symantics) and secondly under what act could a car be removed and someone be charged with illegal parking.

Explain in detail before writing the same nonsense.

Please read past posts where I said what the regulations are

listermint

dickwod1 wrote: »

Please read past posts where I said what the regulations are

Can you link to regulations, also what you have outlined is very vague.

seamus

dickwod1 wrote: »

Please read past posts where I said what the regulations are

What you've said is that if a car is illegally parked and causing an obstruction it can be lifted.

Thanks for that, but we knew that already. It doesn't address the question in the OP.