New Irish Times website

boombang

I don't like the new Irish Times site that went up today. What do you think?

It's harder to get a quick overview of the stories. They made changes like this to some of the specialists sections previously, such as motors, which made it less easy to read. I think the previous format was better.

Maybe we could set up a poll to give the IT some visual feedback.

I still like and appreciate the IT.

WoollyRedHat

Why can't websites be multi-facilitating, is this not possible... like forums and ability to choose skins and such. I know it's not a like for like comparision but isn't there a way where the user could pick the layout. New one comes automatically, but if you wished to revert you could.

Zaph

There's far too much empty space on either side of the screen, and everything is condensed into the middle. The old site was definitely better imo.

RayM

I think it's an improvement - and far easier to navigate. Website redesigns always take a bit of time to adjust to. I think it would benefit from less white space and smaller (preferably sans-serif) fonts. Serif fonts look fine on paper, but very messy on a screen.

fitz0

It seems to be built for tablets and for easy resizing on mobile devices. Even with the perfect resizing on mobile devices, we now have yet another bland news site with zero character. It looks like a poorly formatted blog. The old site wasn't fantastic by any means but this new one is just plain dull.

The desktop version can probably be summed up as 'More pictures, less text.'

The Black Oil

It's a bit like the Guardian's site only they seem to have given up on the design half way through. Bland, indeed.

zoobizoo

Terrible.

I knew where I was going on the old one.

jmcc

Good in parts (the multicolour navigation bar) but absolutely dire in others. It seems that the multi-page breakdown of articles and sections is an attempt to ramp page views and advertising. The technology section seems to be using more wire stuff but the Polly Filler/Phil Space lifestyle waffle is still there. They really need to iron out some of the bugs in the design.

Regards...jmcc

Yakuza

As I posted on P.ie:
Awful, awful, awful. I can't bear to think what it will look like on a smartphone - they've gone and Windows8ified their site- square boxes and garish colours everywhere. I liked it fine as it was. Also, splitting articles into several sub pages - what a pile of crap. We have "scroll bars" allow content to fit on one screen - no doubt some lame attempt to up their hit count? They should add a "see this all on one page" link to prevent having to load a new page every few lines...GRRR:mad:

P.Walnuts

Anyone have any idea if/where the actual "paper" section as it were will be? Or if its now subscription?

One of the joys of working nights was coming home to read the Irish Times at 3 am before anyone else

Worztron

Its terrible! The old version was much better.

jack presley

Too many pictures.

IRE60

Zaph wrote: »

There's far too much empty space on either side of the screen, and everything is condensed into the middle. The old site was definitely better imo.

it built for a tablet in mind

Qualitymark

Can't find a thing! Where's Martyn Turner? Where's the letters? Where's the Irishman's Diary? Where's Ross O'Carroll-Kelly? Where's the news focus pieces?

It's so vulgar. Ick!

Techies seem to like it, though; they say it's faster and more responsive and has a better type size. I just wish they'd achieved these things without making a navigable and pleasant site look like a particularly nasty blog site.

ArthurG

Is it just me or is pinch-to-zoom not working in iPad?. Which kind of makes the move to a 'tablet focussed' layout a bit of a nonsense.

Also, today's letters page seems to be from last week, and no amount of F5'ing seems to update it.....

Qualitymark

ArthurG wrote: »

Is it just me or is pinch-to-zoom not working in iPad?. Which kind of makes the move to a 'tablet focussed' layout a bit of a nonsense.

Also, today's letters page seems to be from last week, and no amount of F5'ing seems to update it.....

And the letters are separated so you have to click click click click click click effing click to open each one, then use Safari's 'Reader' to get a readable version, then close it, then look for another one.

And I still haven't found Irishman's Diary or Ross O'Carroll Kelly or Martyn Turner. Have they been dropped?

MrCreosote

They used to have a "news features" section with the decent articles from the Saturday paper. Can't find them anymore. Boo!

Seems to me a lot more will be behind the paywall. One way of getting your traffic to drop by 95% I suppose...

zoobizoo

This is the way I used to use the site:

Go to comments and read the letters, then opinion.

Then I'd go to Irish news. Then I'd click on later in the day for breaking news.

I cannot find either of those now.

The layout is all over the place, the photos are different sizes, it's a bit of a shambles.

ArthurG

zoobizoo wrote: »

This is the way I used to use the site:

Go to comments and read the letters, then opinion.

Then I'd go to Irish news. Then I'd click on later in the day for breaking news.

I cannot find either of those now.

The layout is all over the place, the photos are different sizes, it's a bit of a shambles.

Same as me.... can't make the new-fangled site work at all. God I've turned into my father.

gandalf

The new design is extremely user unfriendly. The IT site used to be the first one I loaded and I used the menu bar extensively. Now I am avoiding it. The new look is a mess, you can't find things simply at all.I know it is supposed to have been optimised for tablets but this morning I had to attempt to click through to an article three times before I got to the one I wanted. Also zoom doesn't work. I'm using a nexus 7.

legrand

Whilst the last version was very 90's in design and there was much I disliked about the design at least it as navigable - the new one is very poor indeed.

Look at the Letter page (under debate tab) - no sorting by editor it seems.

The Front page (at time of writing) has 3 photos in separate sections related to this weekends Ireland game (why).

Very poor execution - IT take a look at BBC website and learn from others..

boombang

I understand that the site may have been redesigned for tablets, but what proportion of online readers use those devices?

I might also understand that the IT might want to put more behind the paywall, but is this the way to do it? The new site is so unattractive and user unfriendly it would greatly diminish my willingness to pay for access. Even if it is the case that more is now behind the paywall, the site does not communicate that to me at all.

I think the main problem is that one can no longer get a glance over the headline for most articles from one day on one page. Being forced into sub-sections such as politics or crime and being faced with a mix of new and old stories is slow and unappealing.

I would love to see the IT publish some visitor statistics, including estimates of dwell time for before and after this change. I assume it can only go one way.

I know it takes time to learn a new layout and unfamiliarity is initially unwelcoming, but this new design is a disaster.

jmcc

If users have to think too much about a new design and cannot find things then that design is a failure. The Irish Times website is an abject failure in the same way that the Irish Independent website is an abject failure. Where the hell do these "web developer" bozos come from? It is basic information architecture and good sense that you make the content easy to find as that keeps users on the site. It is like the IT got its technology section to advise on this and accidentally used an example from the worst of the web.

Regards...jmcc

IRE60

Best estimates are that 30% of interweb traffic comes from smartphone/tablet devices.
But, it's the fastest growing medium by far. Papers are really relying on the tables to transform their fortunes - otherwise its the last throw of the dice!

IRE60

jmcc wrote: »

If users have to think too much about a new design and cannot find things then that design is a failure. The Irish Times website is an abject failure in the same way that the Irish Independent website is an abject failure. Where the hell do these "web developer" bozos come from? It is basic information architecture and good sense that you make the content easy to find as that keeps users on the site. It is like the IT got its technology section to advise on this and accidentally used an example from the worst of the web.

Regards...jmcc

Its very easy to review your current analytic data to see what information is sought after - and then make that accessible at the outset.

jmcc

IRE60 wrote: »

Its very easy to review your current analytic data to see what information is sought after - and then make that accessible at the outset.

It is a basic navigation structure failure. People are no longer sure where various sections or subsections are to be found. It is far worse on the Indo site though - there's a complete absence of information architecture and competently designed navigation there.

Regards...jmcc

CelticRambler

... and they've changed the favicon, so now my bookmarks toolbar has four black news icons in a row.

Totally agree with the comments above regarding "more pictures, less text". I've just been over to have a look at the Indo's re-design and I think that's where I'll be going for my quick fix of Irish news headlines in future. If I wanted pictures, I'd buy a telly ...

Edit: have just come across this quote on the BBC in a different context - “The job of the designer,” he told me, “is not always to make something that looks dramatically new. Sometimes, you bow to tradition.” (Sir Kenneth Grange, designer of the up-to-date Black Taxi of London)

expectationlost

desktop web browser really is the poor cousin, ok redesign for mobile but don't make it so bad for the regular web browser

i'll hold off criticising, there obviously still putting it together even though they've been working on it for months, still having problems, but seems like IT and Indo are using similar or same software a backend? cms called atex polopoly, although i guess they are using a number of things, wonder what they all are

Qualitymark

Some letters to the Irish Times commenting on the new site http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/changing-times-online-1.1322421#.UT7PVeBBWlU.twitter

IRE60

expectationlost wrote: »

cms called atex polopoly, although i guess they are using a number of things, wonder what they all are

Atex are providers of software, primarily to the newspaper industry. The Indo use a combination of atex (which would be the main driver) and quark to produce the paper.

Atex most likely have a module that publications can buy to take the 'paper data' and transform it to web.

boombang

Qualitymark wrote: »

Some letters to the Irish Times commenting on the new site http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/changing-times-online-1.1322421#.UT7PVeBBWlU.twitter

If I navigate to the letters page I can't see those letters given in the link above. Also, if I go to the letters page today I only see yesterday's letters. I am confused.

crushproof

Some serious dumbing down, the whole colour coded thing is bloody annoying and the it's great that they've spaced out the fonts "cos de generation 2day cant read de small riting".....Christ. The amount of clutter as well is a nightmare, looks like another massive waste of money from the Irish Times.
Always had a look at the website every morning, nice and easy to navigate around the Comments section but now it's click, click back, click through the clutter....garh!

expectationlost

designed by Webfactory

Aidric

What a shame. The new redesign is ghastly and difficult to navigate. The whole thing just looks unfinished.

At least they are taking users feedback on board.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/media/building-an-irish-times-website-for-the-new-digital-era-1.1323273

zoobizoo

I liked the old format.

I'm struggling to just find the Irish news.

Qualitymark

Best thing to do is to write a polite and helpful letter of feedback to the editor, marked "not for publication".

jack presley

zoobizoo wrote: »

I liked the old format.

I'm struggling to just find the Irish news.

Not only is it hard to find, when you do find it most of it is still yesterday's.

jmcc

Mentioned in the comments by MarkoBurns, http://www.news.com.au/ , uses the same CMS. Very elegant design compared the Irish Times website.

The more I think about it, from its "Arts" version of a Technology section to its MyHome.ie purchase, to this dog's vomit of website, the Irish Times seems to have an infallible gift for failing on the web.

Regards...jmcc

Pablo Sanchez

I must say that i dont like it.

IT was always my 'go to' website to check on the news, where is the 'breaking news' section?

Hard to navigate. Initially i disliked the new Independent website but im finding myself drawn to it more in more

Philburns

It is perfectly easy to server different stylesheets or even different content depending on what type of device the website is being looked at on. There is no excuse for this "designed for smartphones" look on the a desktop.

It is so hard to use that I have given up trying!

legrand

Philburns wrote: »

It is perfectly easy to server different stylesheets or even different content depending on what type of device the website is being looked at on. There is no excuse for this "designed for smartphones" look on the a desktop.

It is so hard to use that I have given up trying!

It does not work very well on tablet/phone either. I don't understand how it got released in its current state - maybe IT decided to use us as beta testers. I've seen other sites do this where option to use 'new' format was provided (where feedback could be provided) in advance of go-live.

Am sure it will improve with time - just a shame it not usable at present.

Philburns

legrand wrote: »

It does not work very well on tablet/phone either. I don't understand how it got released in its current state - maybe IT decided to use us as beta testers. I've seen other sites do this where option to use 'new' format was provided (where feedback could be provided) in advance of go-live.

Oh I agree with that too, but I always choose to get the desktop page of most sites on my tablet when given the choice.

Guramoogah

Ross O'Carroll-Kelly is listed as one of the contributors under Debate > Columnists. To find the An Irishman's Diary, first you need to find one of the columnists such as Frank McNally, even though he doesn't always write that column. I still haven't been able to find any trace of Martyn Turner. This new Irish Times website really stinks.

riaganach

I'm also driven a little mad by the new format. It feels like it's dumbed down.

There's a few interesting features that may have been copied/taken from other places.

1. The unnecessary colour (from the Guardian?).
2. The multi-day editorials and opinion pieces (from the NYTimes?)
3. The heavy use of photos (from perhaps the Boston Globe?)
4. The heavy use of embedded advertising (driven by the bank balance?).

I think the main motivation is point 4 above. As a recent editorial
(http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/published-but-not-damned-1.1320443)
explained, these newspaper organizations have a difficult business model.

Google is (somewhat unfairly) hoovering up content free of charge
(recent German court allowed this in Germany, French and Brazilian
politicians against it).

The newpapers are desperately trying to balance advertising with
subscriptions whilst attempting to maintain traffic and circulation numbers.

I suggested a solution to the online editor a number of years ago
- that of micro-payments (using something like paypal for example).

At the end of each article, if a button were available that allowed
you to "contribute" to the site - like a donation that opensource
software developers sometimes solicit. I believe that a reasonable
revenue stream would ensue. Subscriptions and advertising still
neeed of course.

Alternatively, a solution like Wikipedia uses - an annual appeal
for running costs in a short period early in the year.

I reckon they'll make some changes to the formatting to reflect
the feedback they are likely getting. Well I hope so...

fitz0

It looks like the IT are refining the site. Unless I'm mistaken it's changing in small ways from day to day. Has anyone else noticed this?

I still think the fonts are too big, the Irish Times banner is dull, the picture sizes should be harmonised and the colour fade on the top bar should be removed. I like the colour coding, but if they're going to copy the Guardian website (the best news site for readability IMO) they should follow through. Add more colour to the body of the page, rather than just the navigation bar and section indicator. It should be subtle, like a slight tone to highlight a headline or something equally slight, but the body of the page reads like a bland placeholder site in the main.

It is definitely getting better though. It might even be better than the old site if they sort out the issues.

EDIT: The letters section is a mess, they need to sort out those columns. Looking at it now, it's three ragged columns that are done no favours by the drab olive colour scheme.

boombang

I think the fundamental issues of narrow silos of sections is a big problem. The broad categories of Irish/home news and breaking news worked well in the old model.

The problem of mixing new and old news (stories from different days) is also a fundamental flaw of the new model.

I think these are the main issues. I don't have a problem with colour or pictures per se, it's the fragmentation of the news in the new format is the problem.

A masterclass in how not to do it. Such a shame as I thought the old site was very efficient for reading.

oceanfroggie

Pinch to Zoom no longer works on tablets nor smartphones since the redesign, hence the text is too small to bother reading. :eek:

Why oh why do web designers come up with mobile themes or layouts that disable zooming. It's not too difficulty to have a "fluid" desktop layout thats ease to zoom on mobile devices.

Agree the layout is poor. Instead of a broadsheet news at a glance one has to dig through postits to see the big picture. Awful awful.

dardoz

Their layout looks like a carbon copy of the Telegraph now... nice innovation

CelticRambler

jmcc wrote: »

Mentioned in the comments by MarkoBurns, http://www.news.com.au/ ...

That's a nice site. Shame they don't have much Irish news!

Day 3 (or is it 4?) and I've painlessly found myself switching allegiance to the Indo. As a non-resident (so probably not IT's target market), I'm looking for a quick round-up of what's new in, and relevant to, Ireland. I don't want to see yesterday's news and I don't want to see pictures with a six-word summary. The old Indo site used to make my system hang so I boycotted it and didn't know it had been updated, but I was completely happy with the IT.

On the topic of pictures, just about every recent website re-design claims to be done with an eye towards mobile users, but I was reading up on optimisation for mobile devices recently and the point that was hammered home by every article was dump the images and concentrate on text/content because that's what people are looking for. So who's promoting these data-hungry designs that rarely seem to work properly in any case?

gandalf

Typically I would have checked the IT site multiple times a day. I haven't even bothered to go there for the last couple of days and unless I hear about a major change in the functionality of the site I doubt I will be going back to them. I wonder has there been a major drop in the stats that they have seen visiting the site since the change.

It appears that they did no user testing at all on the site before going live which is extremely unprofessional these days.

legrand

gandalf wrote: »

Typically I would have checked the IT site multiple times a day. I haven't even bothered to go there for the last couple of days and unless I hear about a major change in the functionality of the site I doubt I will be going back to them. I wonder has there been a major drop in the stats that they have seen visiting the site since the change.

It appears that they did no user testing at all on the site before going live which is extremely unprofessional these days.

Likewise - have given up. Today for example I was reading a poignant story of the death a homeless man and within the text there was hot-link to Oliver Bond street - out of curiousty I clicked and it brought me back to the same story. I might come back in a few months but for now just a waste of time