Taekwondo Competitions & Grading

johnny_adidas

My son has been attending TKD for the last year. He has been progressing well moved up through the belts. From what I have seen at the gradings though, everyone gets awarded whether they have perfected the moves or not as they are mostly dealt with in groups of belts.

A friend's similar aged child attends another local club (who train on an unsuitable night for us). They attend competitions every couple of months, fun sparring events etc. They also seem to be much stricter on awarding belts, that form must be good or they are told to practice and try next time. This to me seems the correct way as it puts more value on each belt, although it may also cause some members to lose interest.

I was just wondering if it is dependant on the trainer as to whether they attend competitions or not. I can understand that that young members might not be suitable to contact sparring/get hurt due to lack of training however to me it puts the training as similar to dancing and just learning off a routine. I dont intend pulling him out of the group but am wondering how other groups train and whether I should look at moving him if he wants progress to his fullest in the sport.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I can't answer your queries regarding competition as I'm not a TKD practitioner however I'm around martial arts long enough to know a club which is interested in taking your (and my) money and a club which is genuinely interested in the progression of their students and the promotion of their club/style.

Two things to consider, is your son having fun and making new friends and will he be greatly upset if you moved him into the other club?.

Only going by what you've posted I'd be steering my young lad towards the second club, but will he have fun there and can your schedule be moved around the take in that unsuitable training night long term?.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Not TKD myself, Shotokan Karate is my background but some of the stuff you are raising as issues come across with us so I'll give my $.02

How taekwondo is your son's taekwondo. I know it sounds odd but a lot competition tkd is poor from a basics point of view. It is all about kicks and a lot of the time poor technique (from a transmission of power point of view) is perfectly acceptable from a scoring point of view.

So your son's martial art may be called taekwondo but the instructor may have adjusted things so that it works more from a life protection/ self defence point of view then a sporting point of view.

My own instructor in Shotokan is similar. The competition style Shotokan does is semi contact and to be honest is closer to game of tag than a real fight, however we train shotokan as a martial art. We do compete on a number of occasions in a year but it isn't the focus of our training.

That said if you and your son see it as a sport rather than a martial art I would definitely move your son to a club where it is trained as a sport.

Gradings again can go different ways from club to club. My own Sensei only allows his students to do gradings when they have been training regularly and are of a sufficient standard and grading itself is a mere formality. Only two people have failed gradings in the last 3 years that I've been training.

Other Sensei's I know of are less strict about doing the gradings but are more strict about performance in the grading while other Sensei's just grade everyone that wants to go for it.

johnny_adidas

To be honest, it just looks like they learn the routine to get a grading. To me this puts it neither at a sport (which I would see as having a certain amount of competition), nor self-defence.

Some days he tells me he wants to be a black belt, but if I told him tomorrow that he wont be going again, I dont think he'd lose much sleep over it. Id probably be more put out than him that given the outlay, he hasnt gained very much from it in either of those aspects above (and that he will lose what progress he has made in terms of belts).

Although we cannot swap things around to suit the other club, I will look into another MA or activity on the same night. He has gaelic and beavers which he enjoys but i feel its worth trying out a few different things til he finds one that really grabs his attention.

Thanks for your opinions. I certainly get more of a feel that there is a club style and pride in what you do. Having seen some of the young purple belts barely able to kick, im not getting this where he is. I will give my son the option to continue and if he does, insist that he trains the techniques as best he can, should a swap of clubs be required in the future

tritium

Hmmm if hes doing tkd and there are purple belts who can't kick that would scream mcdojo to me
Actually (and I realise I'm generalising) if he's doing tkd and they have purple belts that screams mcdojo (there's probably some very good tkd clubs that use purple belts in their grading syllabus but it's pretty rare within the mainstream tkd organisations in Ireland)

johnny_adidas

Its a World tkd club. I was gobsmacked watching them to be honest, there were at least 3 or 4 who were 5-6 years of age, some getting lost and distracted mid-routine (as 5-6 yr olds do).

This was what really got me questioning the validity of his training as going by what my friends had experienced at their club, if they took on this group(either in routine performance or sparring) they would make them look silly.

Doug Cartel

How old is your son?

tritium

Depending on where you're based op Id imagine there would be a couple of other tkd schools relatively nearby - it still a huge style in terms of numbers, especially around Dublin and cork regions. If you can find a good school I think it's an excellent art, especially for kids with it's emphasis on structure etc.

Theres also the possibility of trying another art though it would be more of a change. I'd suggest have a look at what other clubs are nearby and maybe bring your kid to aclass to see what he thinks.

Theres a sticky at the top of the thread or if you see nothing there I'm sure folks in this forum can also advise!

granturismo

My son is 9, is in an INTA club.

There is no purple belt in INTA.

He started at 6 and was in what they called the 'Little Dragons' class. They got graded and some were awarded belts when they didnt grade perfectly - but it was stressed to parents that this was a class aimed at younger kids and would be conducted as such. Generally they tend to grade twice at most.

Once they reach 7 or 8 they can progress to the junior (nonadult) class and revert to white belt, gradings are more strict. I've only seen 2 gradings and everyone did well - maybe because anyone that wasnt up to par was suggested to hold off til next grading or wasnt encouraged to go for grading.

Not getting into a INTA vs World TKD vs any other MA but maybe your son's club takes it a bit more serious for older kids?

johnny_adidas

My son is 8 and there are older kids in the class (probably 12/13) though at the same level in terms of belts. I have never watched any senior classes so I don’t know if it is different for them. I did notice an adult who joined around the time of my son is progressing along the same timeline of gradings/belts though.

I don’t mean for it to sound like he is getting nothing out of it, his balance has certainly improved which Ive noticed at gaa training but I would like to think he is getting the right type of training with an end goal. I think I will approach the coach and see if he has info on what the long term aspects of the club are and aims for the members, which is essential to if my son enjoys it and wants to continue attending. Otherwise we are just wasting our time and money where we are.

yomchi

johnny_adidas wrote: »

My son is 8 and there are older kids in the class (probably 12/13) though at the same level in terms of belts. I have never watched any senior classes so I don’t know if it is different for them. I did notice an adult who joined around the time of my son is progressing along the same timeline of gradings/belts though.

I don’t mean for it to sound like he is getting nothing out of it, his balance has certainly improved which Ive noticed at gaa training but I would like to think he is getting the right type of training with an end goal. I think I will approach the coach and see if he has info on what the long term aspects of the club are and aims for the members, which is essential to if my son enjoys it and wants to continue attending. Otherwise we are just wasting our time and money where we are.

It's a pity to see TKD clubs behaving this way. Personally what I do when it comes to grading is that if a person isn't ready for their testing I'll ask them to hold back, train harder and go for their belt the next time, that way avoiding any unnecessary 'failure' (a word i hate to use when it comes to grading children) and it also saves the parents money.

My Taekwon-Do club, the kids classes at least are all about athletic and sporting development which is based on fun training and plenty of child friendly tournaments. From my kids class over the years I've brought through many great fighters, once they are old enough i bring them through boxing training and we also branch in to Kickboxing through the IKF and KBI. This is a much more rewarding path for a young athlete to take rather then learning what are in effect a series of useless movements based on nonfunctional training methods.

Fun and plenty of activity is the way to go, so chat to the coach and see what his future plans are.

Jon

smacl

Both my girls did Shotokan for about a year, and were often encouraged to take gradings they weren't near ready for. Looking back, it was probably just a fund raiser for the club. Both have since ditched that Karate club, down to no sparring, too much grading, and just finding it plain boring. I'd guess this varies hugely from club to club, for the younger ones it's all about the instructor and how well they work with kids.

da-bres

Enroll him in BJJ or judo, no BS, fun, safe and a real life skill.

Dave 101

da-bres wrote: »

Enroll him in BJJ or judo, no BS, fun, safe and a real life skill.

ah man.. them kids put me to shame

Mellor

Dave 101 wrote: »

ah man.. them kids put me to shame

They've prob a couple of years under the Mendes bros, no shame in anything there imo.

smacl

da-bres wrote: »

Enroll him in BJJ or judo, no BS, fun, safe and a real life skill.

Was thinking my kids should also give grappling/wrestling a go, as I could see them seriously enjoying it. Any good kids classes south Dublin, coming from Rathfarnham / Ballyboden direction?

tritium

da-bres wrote: »

Enroll him in BJJ or judo, no BS, fun, safe and a real life skill.

Wasn't aware this was a touting for business forum, I guess any of us who did other arts for a few years should just pack up and go home.

Seriously, why does someone always have to turn these into a "my style is deadly" thread

Doug Cartel

tritium wrote: »

Wasn't aware this was a touting for business forum, I guess any of us who did other arts for a few years should just pack up and go home.

Seriously, why does someone always have to turn these into a "my style is deadly" thread

Aw would you go on out of that.

If you've got suggestions, make them. The OP is already unhappy with the school and considering looking for an alternative.

Mellor

Maybe he has a point, how do we know that da-bres isn't Rafa Mendes touting for business.

tritium

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Aw would you go on out of that.

If you've got suggestions, make them. The OP is already unhappy with the school and considering looking for an alternative.

I think if you review the thread you'll see that I did make suggestions. The op looked for advice, not a sales pitch

Doug Cartel

tritium wrote: »

I think if you review the thread you'll see that I did make suggestions.

OK, good job. You made a suggestion, da-bres made a suggestion, the OP is free to weigh them up.

smacl

tritium wrote: »

Wasn't aware this was a touting for business forum, I guess any of us who did other arts for a few years should just pack up and go home.

Seriously, why does someone always have to turn these into a "my style is deadly" thread

I think it's well worthwhile putting up clips of what actually goes on in a class, albeit I'd far rather see something from an actual local class rather than an American marketing vid, even if it is much less polished. Not the same as actually trying a class out, but it does give you some flavour of what it's like.

tritium

smacl wrote: »

I think it's well worthwhile putting up clips of what actually goes on in a class, albeit I'd far rather see something from an actual local class rather than an American marketing vid, even if it is much less polished. Not the same as actually trying a class out, but it does give you some flavour of what it's like.

Smacl, I totally agree. I wouldnt have even raised the point if the post had been in the context of "has your child considered grappling arts? It's completely different to the striking style they're doing now, but they might enjoy it. Here's what happens in a typical class...."

I just get fed up with the willy waving contests some practitioners want to engage in for their style.

To my mind any martial art is a "real life skill" for a child. At that age most of them won't be looking to cage fight so there are wider benefits to each style that a parent should consider.

johnny_adidas

Id love to see a video of a typical TKD class in ireland, must have a look on youtube. Id imagine my son would love to do grappling or BJJ but local classes are non existent.
Wanted to get him involved in a boys gymnastics class as well as he loves throwing himself about but again in shortly supply locally without travelling an hour.

OLDMAN1

Every time someone comes on here and asks about a martial arts style there told to do bjj, it really is getting silly and the mods wont do anything about it. any newbie that comes on here would think that bjj was the biggest combat sport in Ireland, its not, its tiny compared to kickboxing. in the last couple of weeks the biggest kickboxing competition in the world happened in Dublin, it had 2900 competitors and over 20,000 spectators but there was not one mention on here about it because its not bjj!!

Tom.D.BJJ

tritium wrote: »

Wasn't aware this was a touting for business forum, I guess any of us who did other arts for a few years should just pack up and go home.

Seriously, why does someone always have to turn these into a "my style is deadly" thread

tritium wrote: »

I think if you review the thread you'll see that I did make suggestions. The op looked for advice, not a sales pitch

Chill dude, i dont think Da bres even teaches kids. You have to admit, the Mendes bros promo was pretty cool.

smacl wrote: »

Was thinking my kids should also give grappling/wrestling a go, as I could see them seriously enjoying it. Any good kids classes south Dublin, coming from Rathfarnham / Ballyboden direction?

ECJJA teached kids and i think they offer 30 days free trial.

http://ecjja.com/kids-programs/

Tom.D.BJJ

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

Every time someone comes on here and asks about a martial arts style there told to do bjj, it really is getting silly and the mods wont do anything about it. any newbie that comes on here would think that bjj was the biggest combat sport in Ireland, its not, its tiny compared to kickboxing. in the last couple of weeks the biggest kickboxing competition in the world happened in Dublin, it had 2900 competitors and over 20,000 spectators but there was not one mention on here about it because its not bjj!!

Did you post about it? Did anyone? It can only be discussed if someone posts about it.

Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing and TKD are huge compared to BJJ in Ireland. Huge. You don't need to worry.

Tom.D.BJJ

Reign Bald Mincemeat wrote: »

Two things to consider, is your son having fun and making new friends and will he be greatly upset if you moved him into the other club?.

I'm not a parent so my opinion may be irrelevant, but i think the above is far more important at such a young age than the fighting skills. Having fun with other kids, getting excercise as well as learning balance and lateral movement will be extremely beneficial as your children get older.

OLDMAN1

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Did you post about it? Did anyone? It can only be discussed if someone posts about it.

Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing and TKD are huge compared to BJJ in Ireland. Huge. You don't need to worry.

I didn't post about it, i don't do kickboxing. But why would people that do kickboxing post here, they would only be told to give it up and do bjj

Doug Cartel

Jesus wept.

TKD SC

yomchi wrote: »

a series of useless movements based on nonfunctional training methods.

How dare you!!!

I know you secretly practise Chon Ji when no one is looking :P

Doug Cartel

Anyhow back on track.

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I'm not a parent so my opinion may be irrelevant, but i think the above is far more important at such a young age than the fighting skills. Having fun with other kids, getting excercise as well as learning balance and lateral movement will be extremely beneficial as your children get older.

I would guess it depends on if you see this as being a long term thing, or just something to keep him busy for a year or two.

If you think he's going to be doing it long term, but you're not happy with the class, it'll probably be easier to change before he gets too entrenched.

tritium

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Chill dude, i dont think Da bres even teaches kids. You have to admit, the Mendes bros promo was pretty cool

http://ecjja.com/kids-programs/

Tom, I actually have a lot of time for bjj, and yes the demo was pretty good. As I said in another post my issue was more with the way the message was delivered. I could post lots of taekwondo tigers links and say "do taekwondo", hell I could post clips of Van Damme in bloodsport and say "do ninjutsu" ( ok maybe a bit much ). It's basically just sledging and touting for your art, which I think is kind of sh1tty in the context of how the op asked the original question

There are lots of bjjers on here (yourself included) who are comfortable with their own style without needing to put it on some exhalted pedestal. Unfortunately there are a few who seem to buy into the more cultish side of the art. Thats not a good thing!

da-bres

tritium wrote: »

Tom, I actually have a lot of time for bjj, and yes the demo was pretty good. As I said in another post my issue was more with the way the message was delivered. I could post lots of taekwondo tigers links and say "do taekwondo", hell I could post clips of Van Damme in bloodsport and say "do ninjutsu" ( ok maybe a bit much ). It's basically just sledging and touting for your art, which I think is kind of sh1tty in the context of how the op asked the original question

There are lots of bjjers on here (yourself included) who are comfortable with their own style without needing to put it on some exhalted pedestal. Unfortunately there are a few who seem to buy into the more cultish side of the art. Thats not a good thing!

LAWL

I was offering my alternative for the OP, a simple video! I somehow miss the part where I put it on a pedestal. I said clearly that Judo and BJJ are real life skills, am I wrong?? No, obviously not.

Where are you coming up with all these ridiculous conclusions? Cults, pedestals?

Get over yourself mate..

p.s.

BJJ is delish

Doug Cartel

Guys, can we please stick to the topic at hand.