Elderly drivers

meoklmrk91

Today I was sitting in a carpark in my car when a car drove up in front if me and began to park, I watched at the driver made the manoeuvre, when they finished the car was still halfway out on the road, a little old woman hopped out and checked to see how she had done, then hopped back in and tried to fix it, she did it three more times before I got out and asked her if she needed help, I was going to ask her did she want me to park it but didn't want to overstep, so I offered to guide her instead, it still ended up the same way so I then offered, she looked very relived and said "oh would you" I hopped in and had it parked in two seconds.

I'm not being bad but it made me wonder how someone who can't complete a relatively simple manoeuvre such as reverse parking a car with only 1 car beside them can have a drivers license? Do elderly drivers have to resit their test or anything when they get to certain age?

djimi

Ive seen people in their 20s fail at a simple task like parking in a car park; its not limited to elderly folk...

Atomic Pineapple

As above, see it all the time in all car parks, lack of parking ability is certainly not limited to those of an older generation.

meoklmrk91

Certainly not saying that elderly drivers have an exclusivity on poor parking just wondering of they have to resit their test at a certain age.

The Pheasant

No, but the elderly at the moment would've got their licenses at a time when you just had to pay a fee for the license and you didn't sit a test. Some time in the future everyone driving will have passed a test though. Anyway it's easy to say when youre young but when you're old I doubt you'd like being told you have to resit the exam despite being a capable driver. I actually passed my driving test today and I sure as hell never want to have to do one again!

Cungi

Mandatory retests every ten years, cmon sing it with me .....

Atomic Pineapple

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Certainly not saying that elderly drivers have an exclusivity on poor parking just wondering of they have to resit their test at a certain age.

Nope but if the country ever gets some sense driving tests will have to be done again by everyone at the very least every 10 years to encourage proper driving.

piston

Cungi wrote: »

Mandatory retests every ten years, cmon sing it with me .....

I personally think that will achieve very little.

What is needed is actual enforcement of road traffic legislation, for people of all ages.

Bebo stunnah

It's definitely not just the elderly who can't drive. Sure parking isn't even part of the driving test! Everybody should have to be retested every 10 years or so, or at the very least 'advanced' driving tests made mandatory.

The Pheasant

Cungi wrote: »

Mandatory retests every ten years, cmon sing it with me .....

http://www.google.ie/search?q=no+rage+face&hl=en&client=safari&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Amo3Ue25CcmM7Aa0u4GgBQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=356#i=0

Cungi

piston wrote: »

I personally think that will achieve very little.

What is needed is actual enforcement of road traffic legislation, for people of all ages.

I disagree. If people knew they going to be retested it would make them more aware of the rules of the road

I agree enforcement needs to be improved but retests will stop people who cannot drive from holding a licence (regardless of whether they're 30 or 300)

maidhc

Elderly people generally have an awareness of their limitations and drive slower and are more cautious. This cannot be said of some younger drivers who are completely oblivious to the fact they are crap and keep getting killed/killing others.

fasttalkerchat

maidhc wrote: »

Elderly people generally have an awareness of their limitations and drive slower and are more cautious. This cannot be said of some younger drivers who are completely oblivious to the fact they are crap and keep getting killed/killing others.

Agreed.
Probably the old woman in the OP only drives when she has to and always in good light and a slow speed.
I was off the road for a few months and had to take a few attempts at parking for the first few days after. I'd imagine its the same for this woman.

corktina

most elderly people are well able to drive, you just notice the bad ones.

coylemj

Never mind the elderly who can't park, what about the able-bodied young people who ignore disabled and 'mother and child' signs? Or the young and able-bodied who park across two parking spaces?

We've all seen a guy leap out of a car after parking in a disabled space, then you notice the disabled sticker on the dash, obviously he's borrowed the car or the sticker from an elderly parent. Or the young woman who dumps her car in a mother and child spot, clearly she thinks it's a female-only parking spot and conveniently chooses to ignore the fact that she has no kids on board.

Back to elderly drivers: I'm aware of a lady down the country who's in her 90s, her doctor refused to sign her last driving licence renewal medical form so she switched doctor and is still driving.

doolox

I cannot emphasise enough how I detest the idea of a retest every 10 years or any other interval.

I am the type of person who loses sleep over NCT's, gets into a panic when I see a cop at a checkpoint or panic when confronted with any form of officialdom, ask my wife about my behaviour at checkpoints in airports etc.....

I bet there are many people like me out there.

I have not have had a serious accident in over 35 years driving and dont intend starting to have one now.

I do not believe people should have to retest as it would only act as a money grabbing exercise for the government and their heavily protected and unionised cronies the driving testers.

Although I am faced every day with slow and innattentive and downright dangerous driving behaviour I am fortunate enough to be attentive and diligent enough to avoid collisions so far, even in the most dense and stressful traffic. I would not dream of depriving people of their right to drive and possibly their right to a job etc by allowing our rapacious government to impose a periodic retest on the general conforming driving public.

There are already enough mechanisms in place to weed out drivers for persistant illegal behaviour or medical conditions which make driving dangerous. It may be that the appeals systems may have to be made harder to get and it may be that there are some drivers out there who medically or behaviourly should not be on the road but for the general law abiding user one test is more than enough.

fasttalkerchat

coylemj wrote: »

Or the young woman who dumps her car in a mother and child spot, clearly she thinks it's a female-only parking spot and conveniently chooses to ignore the fact that she has no kids on board.

Pulled someone up on this and she pointed aggressively at her kids... who she left in the car!

Cungi

doolox wrote: »

I cannot emphasise enough how I detest the idea of a retest every 10 years or any other interval.
I am the type of person who loses sleep over NCT's, gets into a panic when I see a cop at a checkpoint or panic when confronted with any form of officialdom, ask my wife about my behaviour at checkpoints in airports etc.....

I dont see what any of this has to do with a retest. You have issues with officialdom so scrap any mention of a retest?

doolox wrote: »

I bet there are many people like me out there.

See above

doolox wrote: »

I have not have had a serious accident in over 35 years driving and dont intend starting to have one now.

Oh thats the way it works? I wish i had never intended to crash all those many moons ago

doolox wrote: »

I do not believe people should have to retest as it would only act as a money grabbing exercise for the government and their heavily protected and unionised cronies the driving testers.

A retest will make sure driver behaviour is up to date and not have people driving on the wrong side of a motorway because they didnt exist when said driver took their test.

Money grabbing exercise??? Like the NCT i suppose? It keeps wrecks of cars off the road if it can keep wrecked humans off the road, its all good.

doolox wrote: »

Although I am faced every day with slow and innattentive and downright dangerous driving behaviour I am fortunate enough to be attentive and diligent enough to avoid collisions so far, even in the most dense and stressful traffic. I would not dream of depriving people of their right to drive and possibly their right to a job etc by allowing our rapacious government to impose a periodic retest on the general conforming driving public.

I hate to use this term. "Thinly veiled I'm a better driver than most others"
:rolleyes:

doolox wrote: »

There are already enough mechanisms in place to weed out drivers for persistant illegal behaviour or medical conditions which make driving dangerous. It may be that the appeals systems may have to be made harder to get and it may be that there are some drivers out there who medically or behaviourly should not be on the road but for the general law abiding user one test is more than enough.

No there isnt or we wouldnt have an issue to discuss.
For illegal behaviour we rely on some cameras and the Gardai whos resources are constantly being cut. Medical condition??? As another poster pointed out just go to another doctor for second opinion

I cannot see why anyone would have an issue with retests unless they thought they wouldnt pass again

OldmanMondeo

The Pheasant wrote: »

No, but the elderly at the moment would've got their licenses at a time when you just had to pay a fee for the license and you didn't sit a test. Some time in the future everyone driving will have passed a test though. Anyway it's easy to say when youre young but when you're old I doubt you'd like being told you have to resit the exam despite being a capable driver. I actually passed my driving test today and I sure as hell never want to have to do one again!

This is a view I dislike. Not all older drivers where given a licence, and those that where only had to do what was required of them.

In 20/30/40 years new drivers may well be saying the same as us. Driver training has improved over the last number of years, the focus being on newer drivers, which makes sense.

I said it in other threads and say it here, we will all have to resit our tests to keep out licence, when I am not sure, but it is heading that way. It is the only way to keep driving standards up and help introduce new driver training.

biko

It's not an age thing as much as a "feck it, it'll do" attitude
You should see the obnoxious parking thread OP, it is the stuff of legend.

deandean

A lod of elderly people are completely reliant on the car. They simply could not get out to the shops otherwise. The youngerlies among us have more choices! I am all in favour of cutting plenty of slack for elderly drivers as well as giving them more space and time, well done OP for your actions.

piston

deandean wrote: »

A lod of elderly people are completely reliant on the car. They simply could not get out to the shops otherwise. The youngerlies among us have more choices! I am all in favour of cutting plenty of slack for elderly drivers as well as giving them more space and time, well done OP for your actions.

And yet it is often the younger, able bodied driver who will park in the most appalling, selfish, inconsiderate manner to avoid having to walk a few yards into a shop.

Red Crow

A don't think retests. I think maybe a driver training course before renewing your licence could be implemented. I think we should worry about parking last though. We have a problem with driving in the overtaking lane, lack of indicators on roundabouts, unaccompanied L drivers everywhere etc.

I saw something the other day that was crazy. A L driver tried to turn right at the roundabout. What's wrong with that you say? Well she was looking to actually turn right but going in the opposite direction of the roundabout as if she was at a crossroads. The sad part is that she could of killed someone doing that. Absolute shocking stuff. I hope the Gardai got her because that was someone who hasn't a clue.

djimi

The Pheasant wrote: »

No, but the elderly at the moment would've got their licenses at a time when you just had to pay a fee for the license and you didn't sit a test. Some time in the future everyone driving will have passed a test though. Anyway it's easy to say when youre young but when you're old I doubt you'd like being told you have to resit the exam despite being a capable driver. I actually passed my driving test today and I sure as hell never want to have to do one again!

Both my grandparents are in their 80s and both sat the driving test. There were only something like 60000 amnesty licenses issued; even if all of them are still on the road (and there is a fair chance that a large chunk arent) then it makes up a small portion of Irish motorists.

I agree in principle with the idea of manditory retesting; for everyone, not just the elderly. Perhaps once a decade is a little excessive, but I dont see an issue with once every 15-20 years.

Matt_Trakker

I'm no into the retest thing either, you've passed that's enough. Plus like it was put above, people gettin needlessly stressed out about it ain't good for anybody.

I think refresher courses would be enough. Every 4 or 5 years everybody has to take 4 one hour lessons, this way the teachers can iron out any bad habits and sure if the drivers are totally crap then give the teachers the power to make some people resit tests.

Also, it's a money-spinner for the govt and they need the shillings.

Gosub

It's a big jump to assume that retesting at whatever interval will improve driving standards. I'm sure most of the bad drivers could behave for the duration of the test, then return to (bad) form on the way home from the test centre.

Driving is a skill. I take pride in my skill as a driver and, even though I am surrounded by some of the worst drivers in Europe, I still drive to as high a standard as I can. I have done enough testing over the years. I have a full licence in everything except a motorbike.

If there was some kind of system to encourage the view that we should be proud of our driving standard, it would solve a lot of problems. Too many people, young and old, just jump into their potentially lethal machine and drive without any thought of their, or other's, safety.

Maybe re-education for those caught driving dangerously -funded by the offender- would help.

MadYaker

They drive so bloody slowly, when I'm old and close to death I won't waste the precious few moments I have left in this world by pottering around the place at 30mph.

Anan1

MadYaker wrote: »

They drive so bloody slowly, when I'm old and close to death I won't waste the precious few moments I have left in this world by pottering around the place at 30mph.

Yes you will.

JohnBoy26

Cungi wrote: »

Mandatory retests every ten years, cmon sing it with me .....

That's a rediculos suggestion, do you honestly think a retest will change a drivers bad habits? not a chance, they will be back to their old ways straight after the test.

Doylers

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

That's a rediculos suggestion, do you honestly think a retest will change a drivers bad habits? not a chance, they will be back to their old ways straight after the test.

How many do you think would actually pass the test? I would guess that most people would fail on stuff like mirrors and indicators during a test. Some may end up having to get refresher courses. I can see only good that will come from a re-test situation. Obviously rates would need to be adjusted not a hope people would pay 80odd every 10 years.

Cungi

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

That's a rediculos suggestion, do you honestly think a retest will change a drivers bad habits? not a chance, they will be back to their old ways straight after the test.

Its a ridiculous suggestion because you dont agree with it?
In your opinion, they will be back to their old ways straight after the test.

Yes i do think it will change their habits.
If said person is pulled in by the rozzers and made go do a retest, maybe that person will go straight back to their old ways.

Pulled in for the 2nd or 3rd time and maybe said person would cop on and drive better as its getting expensive now

A retest will not solve this issue alone. It needs to be done in conjunction with enforcement.
But there is no doubt in my mind that a large portion of drivers do need some sort of advanced training whether it be retests or refresher courses.

There are so many in this thread against a retest yet no one can offer a valid reason why they are not needed.
Closest we came to it is that it might stress some people out. Poor mites :rolleyes:

piston

It may make a difference to a small minority of drivers who are basically well intentioned but just badly informed for whatever reason.

The majority of dangerous drivers can drive perfectly well (IMO) but are just careless or simply selfish and will behave for the test and then carry on being selfish and careless.

Then there are people who due to old age or whatever have poor observation/awareness/co-ordination but they should be weeded out by their doctors. Perhaps doctors need to take this more seriously.

The true dangerous drivers aren't the elderly who are aware of their issues and drive slowly to compensate but the people who think they can drive like Michael Schumacher; except they can't and wrap their body-kitted Corsa around a tree as a result.

That is why I believe regular testing will have little effect and just add added stress, hassle and expense for everyone concerned. It is just my opinion based on my own observations of driver behaviour as a driver and as a cyclist.

Joe 90

djimi wrote: »

Both my grandparents are in their 80s and both sat the driving test. There were only something like 60000 amnesty licenses issued; even if all of them are still on the road (and there is a fair chance that a large chunk arent) then it makes up a small portion of Irish motorists.

I agree in principle with the idea of manditory retesting; for everyone, not just the elderly. Perhaps once a decade is a little excessive, but I dont see an issue with once every 15-20 years.

They must have been comparatively old when they started driving then. I'm 63 and I reckon that when I did the test it was within the first couple of years after it's introduction. Just making a comment, not intended as any form of criticism.

Joe 90

Anan1 wrote: »

Yes you will.

Might not apply to everyone. I heard a while back of a 93 year old who had just bought an S1 Exige. He reckoned it was time to get a sensible car, having had a serious Caterham before.

piston

My Dad will be 66 shortly and didn't take a test.

blackwhite

doolox wrote: »

....... I would not dream of depriving people of their right to drive and possibly their right to a job .......

Nobody has a right to drive (or to a job for that matter). It's a privilege that you earn by demonstrating that you meet a certain standard of ability.

Currently, if you meet that standard once, it is assumed that you will remain at that standard. Bringing in a retest every number of years will be a way of checking that people still meet the necessary standard

djimi

Joe 90 wrote: »

They must have been comparatively old when they started driving then. I'm 63 and I reckon that when I did the test it was within the first couple of years after it's introduction. Just making a comment, not intended as any form of criticism.

The amnesty was in the late 70s, wasnt it? Chances are that someone in their 50s/60s might have an amnesty license now; anyone older than that probably wont (unless they were availing of one after driving without a license).

It wasnt really inteneded as a criticism of you personally; I apologize if it sounded that way. There just seems to be a bit of a notion with some people that anyone in this country who has a drivers license prior to 1980 obtained it without getting a test, when in reality there were relatively few anmesty licenses issued, and even if they were all still on the road it would only make up something like 3% of motorists on our roads today!

monkeypants

Is parking even covered in the driving test? It wasn't in mine. Perhaps it should.

djimi

blackwhite wrote: »

Nobody has a right to drive (or to a job for that matter). It's a privilege that you earn by demonstrating that you meet a certain standard of ability.

Currently, if you meet that standard once, it is assumed that you will remain at that standard. Bringing in a retest every number of years will be a way of checking that people still meet the necessary standard

Exactly this. Noone is looking to deprive a good driver of their "right" to drive; if they are actually a good driver then a periodic retest will not be an issue for them. If you are not a good driver then you have no business being on the road, and a periodic retest would weed out the chancers who managed to blag their way to a license and a lifetime of poor driving.

monkeypants

Cungi wrote: »

A retest will make sure driver behaviour is up to date and not have people driving on the wrong side of a motorway because they didnt exist when said driver took their test.

Motorway driving also wasn't covered in my test.

Gosub

One of the problems with a new system of periodic testing is that it would probably be turned into another tax on the motorist. Sure, it might start off at €100 per test or thereabouts, but it could end up like car tax, which used to be reasonable.

Don't give the monkeys another opportunity to screw the motorist.

Joe 90

djimi wrote: »

The amnesty was in the late 70s, wasnt it? Chances are that someone in their 50s/60s might have an amnesty license now; anyone older than that probably wont (unless they were availing of one after driving without a license).

It wasnt really inteneded as a criticism of you personally; I apologize if it sounded that way. There just seems to be a bit of a notion with some people that anyone in this country who has a drivers license prior to 1980 obtained it without getting a test, when in reality there were relatively few anmesty licenses issued, and even if they were all still on the road it would only make up something like 3% of motorists on our roads today!

What I was refering to was not in fact the amnesty but the original introduction of the driving test sometime in the mid 60s.
I do indeed remember the amnesty. Someone who heard about it asked me to drive her and a friend to Lifford that morning and the queue outside the council office was a sight.

monkeypants

djimi wrote: »

Both my grandparents are in their 80s and both sat the driving test.

I think we're talking about different things. There was an amnesty period in 1979 where licences were handed out because there was such a queue for the tests. Before 1964, there wasn't a test at all. My Ma sent £1 (pre-decimal currency) in the post and received a licence by return.

Cungi

monkeypants wrote: »

Motorway driving also wasn't covered in my test.

you didnt do a re test.

Retests should cover motorway use as should tests

I admit that the testing system is far from perfect and needs updating too i just cannot see a valid argument against retests.

Joe 90

monkeypants wrote: »

I think we're talking about different things. There was an amnesty period in 1979 where licences were handed out because there was such a queue for the tests. Before 1964, there wasn't a test at all. My Ma sent £1 (pre-decimal currency) in the post and received a licence by return.

Yes, I remember the days when you sent off a quid to the council and got a license. Car or truck, not test the only difference was the age limit and there was no checking. Put what you liked on the form.

My mother got hers at the time of the Suez Crisis. I reckined that she was the worst driver ever on the roads until I saw the antics of some of the Asians in this part of the world.

Interestingly, when going through some old papers at home I came across an NI license for my father. He told me that he had to have one at whatever time that it was from in order to drive in the North. Would that have been true to drive anything or maybe to drive a truck?

garancafan

Joe 90 and Monkeypants - you're both right.

The test, I think, was introduced in '64. My Dad (and instructor) insisted that I take the test even though it did not become mandatory until some time later.
(I passed both car and motorbike on the same day!)

I totally disagree with resitting the test, once you pass your you have your licence end of story. The last thing we need is more bureaucracy, cost and just general awkwardness around car ownership and driving.

As far as I am aware no other major country has a silly rule like this so why would people here think its necessary. It will never happen anyway imo.

djimi

Joe 90 wrote: »

What I was refering to was not in fact the amnesty but the original introduction of the driving test sometime in the mid 60s.
I do indeed remember the amnesty. Someone who heard about it asked me to drive her and a friend to Lifford that morning and the queue outside the council office was a sight.

monkeypants wrote: »

I think we're talking about different things. There was an amnesty period in 1979 where licences were handed out because there was such a queue for the tests. Before 1964, there wasn't a test at all. My Ma sent £1 (pre-decimal currency) in the post and received a licence by return.

Ah, fair enough! Apologies, as I said there just seems to be a lot of people who think that because of the amnesty in 79 anyone who has a license that long didn't take a test!

I didn't actually know that the driving test only came in in the mid 60s; I thought it was around longer than that.

djimi

Adriana Howling Seafood wrote: »

I totally disagree with resitting the test, once you pass your you have your licence end of story. The last thing we need is more bureaucracy, cost and just general awkwardness around car ownership and driving.

As far as I am aware no other major country has a silly rule like this so why would people here think its necessary. It will never happen anyway imo.

But thats sort of the point; you pass your test when you are 18 and you drive around on the same license for the next 60 odd years. A lot can change in that time; cars evolve, laws change etc. In an ideal world people would keep abreast of the changes in the laws and would continue to evolve their driving skills, but in reality that doesnt happen for a lot of people. I dont see the issue with giving people an incentive to keep progressing as a driver.

piston

djimi wrote: »

I didn't actually know that the driving test only came in in the mid 60s; I thought it was around longer than that.

My uncle, who lived in ROI but worked in NI in the late 1950s/early 60s did a roaring trade with people around where he worked by going to the post office on his way home and buying a driver's licence in ROI in someone else's name and then they could take it to a post-office in NI and exchange it for a full UK one without sitting a test.

SmithG

Agree that at a certain age you should have a 'check-up' test or something. A lot has changed in that time and it is a good idea to ensure the driver is still capable