worried about dogs behaviour post neuter

ameee

Hi I have posted before about my one year old collie/lab cross having problems with chasing his tail endlessly and chewing it to a bloody stump.
I had him at the vets a few times and they felt it was completely behavioural and that he was just an anxious excitable dog.

I have noticed when it is just him and I sitting down he is fine but loud noises, sudden movement and my children seem to make him start spinning in circles. He is indoors all night, half the day and gets on/off leash walks so its not boredom.

Anyway I have just had him neutered on monday and today he acted very aggressively towards my two year old nephew. The dog was outside as my nephew is allergic to dogs, but he loves them and went to the window to see the "wowo" as usual and the dog went mental ,snarling, barking bearing teeth the whole works I was really shocked my nephew once or twice more was in view of the dog and the dog was doing that miny jump thing they do when they are about to go for something.

I understand he is probably in pain and I have kept my own kids out of his way while he recovers but my nephew was in the house and only walking towards the window! I am very worried its not at all like him to act like this . I never leave my dog unsupervised with my kids but truth be told if that glass wasnt there I dont think anyone could have moved fast enough to stop him there was no warning just full attack mode

someone please tell me this is normal post op (sorry for long post)

DBB

It's not necessarily related to being neutered at all OP. From what you describe, your dog is carrying out a compulsive behaviour and has done since before the operation. I'd be inclined to be investigating this before I'd blame the neutering, because the spin-off behaviours associated with compulsive disorders are more likely to cause a behaviour change than neutering is.. have you thought about addressing it with a clinically qualified behaviourist? These tail-chasing/chewing conditions can be deeply unpleasant for the dog, and between your vet and a clinical behaviourist, a proper diagnosis for why your dog is doing this, a proper treatment plan (whether medical, behavioural, or both), and a proper prognosis is needed here.

ameee

Thanks for the reply I know the spinning distresses him and we have tried everything to stop this. We stop him everytime he does it. We put a muzzle on him as he was constantly bleeding from it and that seemed to work but we didnt think it fair to keep him muzzled all day and night.
I have had him to the vets numerous times they were sure it was behavioural but gave him steroids, sedatives and antibiotics just to be sure and none of it made a difference, I even got so desperate I asked them could they dock his tail as it wouldnt heal and they said no as he would still have the behaviour. The muzzle let it heal but the behaviour continued when we took it off.

I thought he wouldnt do it for a few days after the op but he did it as soon as we got home which must have been painful for him with the stitches and all.

I am nevous of him being around the children sometimes as if I go near his tail he will go to bite me and I worry they might bump it by mistake. I feel he is not able for the hussle and bussle of our house and children and this sets him off but what can I do I have him now he is part of our family.

The vets also recommended a dog physcologist but truth be told money is a big issue and he is a walking vet bill as is might have to look into it though. I cant see anything changing the spinning though the aggression is very worrying

ISDW

ameee wrote: »

Thanks for the reply I know the spinning distresses him and we have tried everything to stop this. We stop him everytime he does it. We put a muzzle on him as he was constantly bleeding from it and that seemed to work but we didnt think it fair to keep him muzzled all day and night.
I have had him to the vets numerous times they were sure it was behavioural but gave him steroids, sedatives and antibiotics just to be sure and none of it made a difference, I even got so desperate I asked them could they dock his tail as it wouldnt heal and they said no as he would still have the behaviour. The muzzle let it heal but the behaviour continued when we took it off.

I thought he wouldnt do it for a few days after the op but he did it as soon as we got home which must have been painful for him with the stitches and all.

I am nevous of him being around the children sometimes as if I go near his tail he will go to bite me and I worry they might bump it by mistake. I feel he is not able for the hussle and bussle of our house and children and this sets him off but what can I do I have him now he is part of our family.

The vets also recommended a dog physcologist but truth be told money is a big issue and he is a walking vet bill as is might have to look into it though. I cant see anything changing the spinning though the aggression is very worrying

Unfortunately, putting the muzzle on isn't treating the problem though, its just preventing him doing any damage.

Shame the vet went ahead with all the expensive treatment if they thought it was a behavioural issue

If you could sort the behavioural issues out, then the vet bills would also disappear, so if there is any way that you could get a proper behaviourist to see him, it could save you a lot of money in the long term.

Best of luck with it, poor dog sounds really stressed and unhappy, which obviously then has the same effect on you.

**Vai**

Decent behaviourist and a better vet should do the trick OP.

ameee

Well that's the thing its upsetting to watch we can all be chilling in the sitting room in the evening and one of us Will stand up and off he goes for hours if let. Ill look into the price of a behaviourist and see if its doable. I don't think the vet had a clue what was wrong with him. A different vet unaware of his issues when i collected him from the neuter said he was the most excitable dog he had ever seen

DBB

Whatever about anything else, I'm very pleased your vet wouldn't amputate that tail: it can occasionally work, but nearly always doesn't, because if it's a medical problem, the source of pain is often not actually the tail itself, and if it's behavioral, the problem is much further up the spine, in the brain! So, it stands to reason that amputation is not the answer, and indeed could cause more problems.. a dog with a real, proper compulsion can start chewing other parts of his body instead

ameee

This is his tail at its worst well not quite he made it bleed a lot too.

marley123

this sort of behaviour ( tail chasing etc ) is very common in Collies including crosses that are " under stimulated" how much exercise does he get? do you set up games for him in the garden, hide treats under flower pots etc... lots of stimulating activities also like Fly ball may be worth a try OP

ameee

marley123 wrote: »

this sort of behaviour ( tail chasing etc ) is very common in Collies including crosses that are " under stimulated" how much exercise does he get? do you set up games for him in the garden, hide treats under flower pots etc... lots of stimulating activities also like Fly ball may be worth a try OP

Wish that was the problem as it would be so easy to remedy!
No he gets walked twice a day, gets lots of attention for us and the kids (though not the kids now after his trying to attack through the glass ). He gets off lead a couple of days a week, he has loads of toys and kongs in the garden to keep him happy when he is outside and we throw balls and stuff to him. He comes with us on days out to the beach or park. We had him out with us for four hours last week ran the legs off him but when he came home he started spinning straight away. He spins indoors more then outdoors.

Abracastabya

ameee wrote: »

Wish that was the problem as it would be so easy to remedy!
No he gets walked twice a day, gets lots of attention for us and the kids (though not the kids now after his trying to attack through the glass ). He gets off lead a couple of days a week, he has loads of toys and kongs in the garden to keep him happy when he is outside and we throw balls and stuff to him. He comes with us on days out to the beach or park. We had him out with us for four hours last week ran the legs off him but when he came home he started spinning straight away. He spins indoors more then outdoors.

A dog like this needs to have all his energy used up. Having owned a collie who was always outside, used to do laps of the house.

We live on an acre of land. And he had a track worn down from the very perimeters of the land the house was on. He walked that constantly. Also with long walks daily and playing ball in massive fields. These dogs are herding animals and have so much energy and are always needing to keep busy so to speak.

My advice would be to bring him to a safe open area at least once a day and wear him out with a ball as well as the walks and just keep him entertained and occupied.

Just my 2c, these dogs love and thrive on being outdoors.

Mine was never vicious only once, when he got narky probably from a moment if confusion as he was old.

Lived til he was 15 poor soul, he was never kept in the house unless it was thundering as he was terrified of that.

Would also recommend a behaviourist OP.

fredweena

My parents have a collie cross and he's the most active dog i've ever seen. Everyone who meets him comments on how mental he is. He lives outside and has an acre to run around in and he NEVER stops. It's easy to underestimate just how much energy they have. He's as happy as larry and stays out in all weathers even though he has a kennel and we have a shed. He sleeps in there at night but sometimes when the weather is very bad we have to lock him in or bring him into the house as he will stay out running so long he made himself ill once. If he were a house dog i'd say he'd get very frustrated and start to act up. That said, i've a collie myself and our biggest problem is getting him off the couch.

ameee

Our dog is not strictly a house dog, he just sleeps in at night.
During the day we usually leave the door open a bit during the spring,summer and autumn and he comes and goes as he likes from the back garden. Im mad into my garden I have a patch fenced off for veg and every halfway decent day we are out playing/bbqing so much so I think the neighbours must think we are australian so when we are out he goes out otherwise he wants to be in the whole time. So he isnt locked in as much as he gives us the sad puppy routine untill we let him in.