Mum obsessed with money

Lunni

Yes, as the title says, my mum is obsessed with money. I love her and everything and she's great in many ways, but it's driving me mad.

Basically, she is really, really stingy, but not even in a thrifty way, just in a begrudging way, if that makes any sense? She would never shop in Aldi or Lidl because she thinks the food would be horrible, so she spends loads of money in Tesco, she spends loads at the hairdresser and so on. Yet, she really, really begrudges spending money on me or even me spending it on myself (to clarify, I'm 27 and have been self-supporting for years bar the odd gift).

Everything in her eyes is a waste of money. I need to get regular massages from a physio for a health condition and she always says I'm being ripped off and would I not get my boyfriend to do it? As if my boyfriend is capable of giving a sports massage. I get my teeth cleaned by the hygienist twice a year because I have gum disease and she says it's a waste of money and I shouldn't bother. Anything at all that I buy, she asks me how much it was. ALL she is interested in is the price, nothing else. She doesn't consider how happy something makes me or what non-material value something holds, it's just all about the money. It's so obvious that friends and my partner have commented on it. She came to visit me and my partner and spent the whole first hour going around our flat, asking us how much the rug cost, how much the kettle cost...she's only satisfied when we say 'under a fiver' or 'free' - anything else is a 'rip off'.

I've started a small writing business to hopefully bring in some extra income and she asked me if I had a logo. I said no, not yet, that I'd try to get it done cheaply on Freelancer or Odesk. She asked me could my partner's brother not do it, as he's a graphic designer. I said he doesn't do work for free and she said that was very mean and that I should ask him again. I said no, that's how he makes his living, I don't expect anything for free, and she said I should just forget about the logo then. To her, it's not worth spending 15 euro (or whatever) on something that could help my business in the future. It's only good if it's free and she expects anyone who has a business to do favours for free.

The thing is, I'm the thriftiest girl around, probably because she is so stingy. I'm really responsible with money even though I have very little. I always transfer something into savings, I shop at Aldi, buy almost everything second hand, but I won't scrimp on anything to do with my health, dental care or general wellbeing. Yet to hear my mum go on, you'd think I was some sort of princess. You might say 'just don't talk about money' but it's impossible. Impossible. Everything is always about money and I can't avoid it without cutting her off completely, which I don't want to do. I've tried talking to her about it but she tells me I'm a spoiled brat and don't know the value of money and she can spend her own money how she likes and that if I want, she'll never give me any money or presents ever again. Just goes off on one, basically.

She's just oblivious to how she comes across. Last time she visited with my dad and sister, we were going to go out for dinner, my parents' treat. My mum went on and on about how she didn't want somewhere too expensive. My boyfriend eventually decided not to come with us and then my mum kept going on about how weird it was and asking why he didn't want to come. I snapped and told her it was because she'd made him feel so uncomfortable and burdened and that it was incredibly rude to go on about money when you're about to take someone out for dinner. She had no idea what I was talking about and said he was being ridiculous. She did the same thing on my birthday a couple of years ago, went on about money so much that my boyfriend ordered a bowl of soup and refused dessert, because he felt so bad. She said everything on the menu was a rip off (it was a Korean restaurant, not the Ritz. About 20 quid a head, max) and ordered a tiny meal and then complained about being hungry. As I said, there's no value in anything for her. She couldn't just enjoy the food, even if the portions were small. She went on about this meal for the next 6 months, so much that my dad told me to bring her to McDonald's next time because he was sick of hearing about it.

What can I do?

ABajaninCork

Simple. Tell her nothing!

If she asks, either you can tell her it's none of her business (which is isn't), ignore the question or ask her why she wants to know.

You're stressing over nothing.

Kevster

I was just wondering about why she might be behaving like this...

Obviously, there has been a lot of coverage of the economy since 2008 - It's pretty much mentioned each day in the news. The constant talk of job losses and 'bankers' can make some people 'fear' money and can make them obsess about it. I say this because - well - it happened to me back then.

The fact that there is no rationality to her spending (she saves on some things; spends on others), just further supports what Iv'e said above, I believe..

Lunni

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Simple. Tell her nothing!

If she asks, either you can tell her it's none of her business (which is isn't), ignore the question or ask her why she wants to know.

You're stressing over nothing.

Did you read my post? It's not that simple.

It's not an option to tell her nothing. If I tell her it's none of her business, she just assumes the thing was really expensive and that's why I don't want to tell her, and goes on about that. It affects every aspect of my life. I can't tell her any kind of news without her bringing money into it. I can't bring her anywhere without the topic of money being involved. It's not a matter of me choosing what to tell or not tell her, she'll go on about it anyway. That's the point. She ruined my graduation by complaining loudly about how much the meal cost, she's ruined several birthdays by complaining about the cost. What do I do? Not invite my mother to important life events? What happens when I get married? I can't face the thought of her going on all day about money, even though I haven't asked her to pay for anything (and I definitely won't - I'd have it hanging over me for the rest of my life).

It might seem trivial to you, but it isn't to me. Imagine paying for important medical care then being called a princess. Imagine being given a hard time for spending money on travelling to a friend's funeral. She even told me I might be better off missing my own grandmother's funeral because the next-day flight was very expensive. This is no small matter. It just brings even more stress and upset into already stressful circumstances.

Lunni

Kevster wrote: »

I was just wondering about why she might be behaving like this...

Obviously, there has been a lot of coverage of the economy since 2008 - It's pretty much mentioned each day in the news. The constant talk of job losses and 'bankers' can make some people 'fear' money and can make them obsess about it. I say this because - well - it happened to me back then.

The fact that there is no rationality to her spending (she saves on some things; spends on others), just further supports what Iv'e said above, I believe..

She's always been like this. It has nothing to do with the economy. I'm pretty sure it has to do with her childhood. Her own mother was abusive, petty, spiteful and stingy and unfortunately she seems to have picked up some of those traits.

My parents are very well-off because of my dad's job, but instead of giving me all the things she never had, she pretty much says 'well I never had that, so why should you?' as if that's in any way rational. She thinks anyone who ever gets anything from their parents is 'spoiled'.

ABajaninCork

Lunni wrote: »

Did you read my post? It's not that simple.

It's not an option to tell her nothing. If I tell her it's none of her business, she just assumes the thing was really expensive and that's why I don't want to tell her, and goes on about that. It affects every aspect of my life. I can't tell her any kind of news without her bringing money into it. I can't bring her anywhere without the topic of money being involved. It's not a matter of me choosing what to tell or not tell her, she'll go on about it anyway. That's the point. She ruined my graduation by complaining loudly about how much the meal cost, she's ruined several birthdays by complaining about the cost. What do I do? Not invite my mother to important life events? What happens when I get married? I can't face the thought of her going on all day about money, even though I haven't asked her to pay for anything (and I definitely won't - I'd have it hanging over me for the rest of my life).

It might seem trivial to you, but it isn't to me. Imagine paying for important medical care then being called a princess. Imagine being given a hard time for spending money on travelling to a friend's funeral. She even told me I might be better off missing my own grandmother's funeral because the next-day flight was very expensive. This is no small matter. It just brings even more stress and upset into already stressful circumstances.

Yes, I read your post. You asked for opinions. I gave them. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

I DO know what I'm talking about and can understand where you're coming from. since my mother behaves in the same, in nearly identical situations. I was like you. Used to think that I HAD to tell her everything. Took me years to tell her four little words. None of your business, or Why do you ask?

Do you live at home? Maybe that's why your mother believes she can try to control you by asking about your finances. I didn't, having moved out young, but it didn't stop her. She still tries it on now, even though I moved out 30 years ago.

P. Breathnach

How does your father cope? Can you learn anything from him?

Lunni

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Yes, I read your post. You asked for opinions. I gave them. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

I DO know what I'm talking about and can understand where you're coming from. since my mother behaves in the same, in nearly identical situations. I was like you. Used to think that I HAD to tell her everything. Took me years to tell her four little words. None of your business, or Why do you ask?

Do you live at home? Maybe that's why your mother believes she can try to control you by asking about your finances. I didn't, having moved out young, but it didn't stop her. She still tries it on now, even though I moved out 30 years ago.

It's not a matter of what I want to hear. I don't live at home, BTW, which I clearly stated in my post.

I don't mean to be rude, but I genuinely don't see how 'not telling her anything' can help. I already talk to her the bare minimum (phone call every 2 weeks or so) and tell her the bare minimum about my life. It's not a matter of telling her stuff. She'll comment anyway. The only way out that I can see is just not to invite her anywhere ever again and not go home even for Christmas, because the comments keep coming whether I ignore them or not. It's impacting upon my relationship with my OH, who feels awkward and unwanted by my family. I'm used it to by now, but I feel awful for him. Especially because his family are lovely and generous to me.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How does your father cope? Can you learn anything from him?

Tries to ignore her, basically. Their relationship has been on the rocks for years. He thinks she's a lunatic and just tries to ignore her for an easy life. It's got to the point where if I ever do need a little bit of money, I ask him not to tell her he's given it to me because she gets so angry.

professore

Imo, daughters seem to care far too much about what their parents think. You're an adult, just tell her to mind her own business. If she falls out with you, it's her loss. As you both get older, she will need you far more than you need her. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it might wake her up.

ABajaninCork

Lunni wrote: »

It's not a matter of what I want to hear. I don't live at home, BTW, which I clearly stated in my post.

I don't mean to be rude, but I genuinely don't see how 'not telling her anything' can help. I already talk to her the bare minimum (phone call every 2 weeks or so) and tell her the bare minimum about my life. It's not a matter of telling her stuff. She'll comment anyway. The only way out that I can see is just not to invite her anywhere ever again and not go home even for Christmas, because the comments keep coming whether I ignore them or not. It's impacting upon my relationship with my OH, who feels awkward and unwanted by my family. I'm used it to by now, but I feel awful for him. Especially because his family are lovely and generous to me.

Obviously I missed the part where you state you lived away.

I told you a little of my experience in the hope that it might give you some idea of how to handle things. In the end, I came to the realisation that her behaviour was not going to change, but I could change the way I handled myself with her.

And yes, you are coming across as rude and snippy which there is no call for.

Perhaps some counselling might help.

ABajaninCork

professore wrote: »

Imo, daughters seem to care far too much about what their parents think. You're an adult, just tell her to mind her own business. If she falls out with you, it's her loss. As you both get older, she will need you far more than you need her. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it might wake her up.

This, exactly. In the end, my mother saw I was not putting up with her behaviour any more, and to be fair to her, has tried hard not to be so controlling. It's taken time and patience, and there's been times, where I have to pull her up again. But you can do it.

Kevster

professore wrote: »

Imo, daughters seem to care far too much about what their parents think. You're an adult, just tell her to mind her own business. If she falls out with you, it's her loss. As you both get older, she will need you far more than you need her. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it might wake her up.

I'm a son and I care a lot about what my parents think. Before you ask - no - I'm not homosexual.

Lunni, it just seems that she's frustrated at how 'easy' life seems to be for younger people. I imagine that there are actually many older people who feel the same as she, but that some of them avoid voicing themselves. Even myself - at 30 - see people younger than me as having certain things too easy, and it does frustrate/anger me.

With regard to your health, she probably feels that you should fight 'through' the pain, but of course I'm not saying that she is right. When she was growing up, healthcare was obviously less available and specialised as it is now.

Kevin

labradoodlelady

You need to try and develop some kind of coping strategy, as this is clearly annoying you.

Of course this behaviour is bothersome, but having a graduation ruined by your mum giving out about the cost, or birthday parties where people are , worrying about future events etc is not healthy.
Your Dad's reaction with the McD comment.is where you need to gauge yourself. Try and laugh it off (not in a mean way) rather than letting it get under your skin.

In relation the the logo design. It seems to be a case of you both having very different opinions on the matter and completely disagreeing. If she brings it up, just say something like, that's how he makes his money and I'm not putting him in the position of spending a few hours working on something for me for free, and leave it there.

Don't get into situations where you are both pushing for the last word. Avoid getting aggressive or agitated. It's yourself you are stressing out.
You know the show Supernanny, use the night time technique, with the 3 stages, for dealing with these conversations. So, with the massages, say "I need them for X injury and my boyfriend isn't qualified to do that and he could cause more damage if ge tried". If she counteracts, then "I need to get them done" and if she keeps going on, just say no more. Change the conversation if necessary.


Another option is to bring it up in a rational discussion with your Mum. She might not even realise that she talks about money to the extent that she does. You have already said that you think it was because of her childhood, so keep this in mind.
Tell her how her behaviour makes you (not other people, you) feel without making her feel bad and without making yourself sound like a victim.

Lunni

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Obviously I missed the part where you state you lived away.

I told you a little of my experience in the hope that it might give you some idea of how to handle things. In the end, I came to the realisation that her behaviour was not going to change, but I could change the way I handled myself with her.

And yes, you are coming across as rude and snippy which there is no call for.

Perhaps some counselling might help.

But in fairness, ABajaninCork, I addressed in my OP that obviously I have already tried just not telling her anything and it doesn't work. Because I knew people would tell me that and because it's the obvious solution. It's gone way beyond that. I think it's a bit rude of you to imply you're telling me isn't what I want to hear, when you hadn't taken account of my circumstances.

P. Breathnach

Lunni wrote: »

... He thinks she's a lunatic and just tries to ignore her for an easy life. ...

Well, you can probably do a bit of that, but it won't be a full solution.

When somebody annoys you, it can be very difficult to appear good-humoured. If you can maintain an appearance of good humour, you could nullify her attacks by sending everything up to a ridiculous extent: tell outrageous lies, such as you that you got the television for €10 because the box was shop-soiled, that you paid €250 for the toaster because it heats the bread right through to the centre, and that you go for professional massage to make up for your partner's performance inadequacies (but be sure that he is able to laugh at such a suggestion!). It might not deter her, but you could enjoy playing the game.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Lunni

labradoodlelady wrote: »

You need to try and develop some kind of coping strategy, as this is clearly annoying you.

Of course this behaviour is bothersome, but having a graduation ruined by your mum giving out about the cost, or birthday parties where people are , worrying about future events etc is not healthy.
Your Dad's reaction with the McD comment.is where you need to gauge yourself. Try and laugh it off (not in a mean way) rather than letting it get under your skin.

I will try to do that as much as I can. Very difficult not to get upset, though, after the 10th time she's said the same thing!

In relation the the logo design. It seems to be a case of you both having very different opinions on the matter and completely disagreeing. If she brings it up, just say something like, that's how he makes his money and I'm not putting him in the position of spending a few hours working on something for me for free, and leave it there.

Yeah...it just bugs me that she's almost happy to use other people and bleed them dry, like a sense of entitlement?

Don't get into situations where you are both pushing for the last word. Avoid getting aggressive or agitated. It's yourself you are stressing out.
You know the show Supernanny, use the night time technique, with the 3 stages, for dealing with these conversations. So, with the massages, say "I need them for X injury and my boyfriend isn't qualified to do that and he could cause more damage if ge tried". If she counteracts, then "I need to get them done" and if she keeps going on, just say no more. Change the conversation if necessary.


Another option is to bring it up in a rational discussion with your Mum. She might not even realise that she talks about money to the extent that she does. You have already said that you think it was because of her childhood, so keep this in mind.
Tell her how her behaviour makes you (not other people, you) feel without making her feel bad and without making yourself sound like a victim.

I have brought it up and she was upset when I told her how my boyfriend felt about it, but she doesn't seem to be able to help herself. I don't think she even realises she's doing it half the time - you're right.

Lisha

Hi lunni

I do not think there is any thing you can do to change your mother

So you have a few choices

Learn to ignore her

Tell her what she wants to hear and do what ever pleases you

Cut off all contact

In my opinion you are in a toxic releation ship with her
Personally I found Louise L Hay s book 'codependent no more' very useful in giving me tools to deal with harmful relationship cycles

Focus on what you have achieved despite such negativity
You deserve to be proud of yourself and happy

Bottom line you can't change her, live your own life and be happy

I wish you peace Lunni
Best if luck

Edit Louise l hay book called you can heal your life
Codependent no more written b melodie Beattie
I found both books useful

P. Breathnach

Lunni wrote: »

...
Yeah...it just bugs me that she's almost happy to use other people and bleed them dry, like a sense of entitlement?
...

That's about her, not about her and you. You have enough of a challenge sorting out a workable mother-daughter relationship without thinking about how she deals with the rest of the world.

Meauldsegosha

Lunni wrote: »

. Yet, she really, really begrudges spending money on me

Lunni wrote: »

My parents are very well-off because of my dad's job, but instead of giving me all the things she never had, she pretty much says 'well I never had that, so why should you?' as if that's in any way rational

You seem to have an expectation that your mother should just give you money. Do you think that your mother should support you without question?

Lunni

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

Lunni wrote: »

My parents are very well-off because of my dad's job, but instead of giving me all the things she never had, she pretty much says 'well I never had that, so why should you?' as if that's in any way rational

You seem to have an expectation that your mother should just give you money. Do you think that your mother should support you without question?

Have you actually read ANY of what I've posted? I've been completely self-sufficient since I was 18. I don't expect anything from my mother at all.

I simply stated that when I was younger, I felt poor because we were never really allowed to have anything. People assumed we must be loaded, but I never felt that way. When I was doing the LC, I desperately needed a maths tutor because I was failing despite doing 2-3 hours of extra work at home every day, but my mum refused to pay. I failed and am still suffering the consequences. I'm not talking about silly things like clothes, I'm talking about really important stuff. I remember how embarrassed I felt telling my maths teacher my parents wouldn't pay for the tutoring. He offered to pay some of it himself, thinking my parents were really poor. I still remember how mortified I felt when he dropped me at my house in the school minibus after a day trip and saw our massive house. I don't know what he must have thought. What can you say? "My parents have loads of money, they just don't think my education and future are worth spending it on?"

I don't expect anything, but most people I know who grew up with nothing are generous with their own kids, or at least teach them how to budget their money carefully and give them advice. They don't say 'well I never had X, so you're not having it' without any consideration or discussion.

Big Bag of Chips

Lunni wrote: »

she tells me...she can spend her own money how she likes

You tell her you can spend your own money how you like.

Lunni wrote: »

and that if I want, she'll never give me any money or presents ever again.

Tell her you would rather receive a gift from her because she wants to give it to you, rather than feel she has to give it to you. If she doesn't want to give you gifts, you are ok with that.

You are not going to change her. Just change how you deal with her.

Edit: I would also start lying! When she asked about getting the brother to do the logo, you should have just said 'That's a good idea'. If you paid him, tell her you didn't.

Tell her the toaster was a present.

Tell her the rug was from Oxfam.

She doesn't actually NEED to know. She is being nosey and annoying you... So you don't NEED to tell her the truth!

Meauldsegosha

Lunni wrote: »

It's got to the point where if I ever do need a little bit of money, I ask him not to tell her he's given it to me because she gets so angry.

You're not really self-sufficient if you are asking your parents for money. Yes I have read all your posts hence my comments and quoting your posts. In my opinion, you have expectations about your parents money and when your mother criticises how you spend your or their money you don't like it.

tbh

Lunni wrote: »

.she's only satisfied when we say 'under a fiver' or 'free' - anything else is a 'rip off'.

well there's your answer then.
When she asks how much stuff cost you, you say "under a fiver" or "free".

Don't bring up the fact that you've been to the hygienist -if you don't tell her, she won't know.

If she says "why don't you get your partners boyfriend to do your logo" say "good idea, I'll do that".

Pat McGhee

tbh wrote: »

well there's your answer then.
When she asks how much stuff cost you, you say "under a fiver" or "free".

Damn! Beat me to it, was just about to suggest the same thing. :-)

Lunni

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

You're not really self-sufficient if you are asking your parents for money. Yes I have read all your posts hence my comments and quoting your posts. In my opinion, you have expectations about your parents money and when your mother criticises how you spend your or their money you don't like it.

You really don't know what you're talking about here. I'm talking about the tiniest amounts of money for things they want me to do. In this case, for example, my dad wanted me to fly home to see a sick relative of his. I told him I'd love to, but just didn't have the money, so he transferred me half the cost of the ticket. It's not as if they're giving me money for my own use or stuff I want.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You tell her you can spend your own money how you like.



Tell her you would rather receive a gift from her because she wants to give it to you, rather than feel she has to give it to you. If she doesn't want to give you gifts, you are ok with that.

You are not going to change her. Just change how you deal with her.

Edit: I would also start lying! When she asked about getting the brother to do the logo, you should have just said 'That's a good idea'. If you paid him, tell her you didn't.

Tell her the toaster was a present.

Tell her the rug was from Oxfam.

She doesn't actually NEED to know. She is being nosey and annoying you... So you don't NEED to tell her the truth!

Good point and probably the closest I'll get to a solution. Thing is, I hate lying and am really bad at it, but it would be an easier life...

labradoodlelady

Lunni wrote: »

I will try to do that as much as I can. Very difficult not to get upset, though, after the 10th time she's said the same thing!



Yeah...it just bugs me that she's almost happy to use other people and bleed them dry, like a sense of entitlement?



I have brought it up and she was upset when I told her how my boyfriend felt about it, but she doesn't seem to be able to help herself. I don't think she even realises she's doing it half the time - you're right.

It is of course difficult, but from what you are saying, it is you who is getting bothered by this, you with the embarrassment and you getting stresses out. You need to develop coping strategies to stop this affecting your life and your relationship with your Mum.

You can either, keep going as you are, bring it up with your Mum, or develop a way to deal with this, whether it's to "train" her to shorten these conversations, or to just say xyz was free or a gift.

Re the graphic designer, you have identified that she sees an entitlement. I obviously don't know either of you, so I am just guessing, but she might be looking at the situation as, "it's what he does, why not ask him". You obviously know he is qualified and experienced in his field, maybe she isn't aware of the level of education, training and experience and is just thinking "it's a little logo, how hard could it be". Try saying, that he values his work which is why he charges for it. Your employers value yours, which is why they pay you. You don't want to undervalue his work by asking for a freebie. If it keeps coming up, just say you asked him and he's really busy and can't do it. And leave it there. Don't get involved in a having the last word argument and don't let it stress you.


Finally, if you do bring it up, you need to take ownership of it. Sit down with your Mum and tell her how her behaviour makes you feel. You, not your Dad, sister, relatives, friends or boyfriend. She may be completely unaware as to her behaviour.

Please keep in mind her own childhood. She may be thinking that she needs to be penny wise, coming from her background. You may see her as having mean traits that her own parents displayed, but she may be seeing it as having had nothing herself, that she is watching every penny spent. Perhaps, some envy that you have money to spend when she didn't at that age. Perhaps some misplaced guidance. Perhaps a case of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. Whatever it is; it is not good for you that her behavior stresses you out so much.

I don't want to offend you, but I gather some resentment to your parents in your posts. I am a huge advocate of counselling and it might be a benefit to you to deal with this, and to learn some coping techniques going forward.

will.i.am

Hi OP.
Next time you ring your mother don't mention anything about getting your teeth cleaned or going to the sports physio,never mention having to go to a party or wedding that you needed to bring a gift etc.
Next time you ring your mam. Just talk about work, tell her about new about one of your friends and talk about going on a jog or something.

ElleEm

OP, I would say this is wrecking your head altogether! I used to have a friend who was similar in her cheapness, and she was from a wealthy background. At the time she was living at home with the parents, no money worries, etc. yet was so cheap that she would dispute the price of everything, (and if she got you a drink you had to get her one back to the equal value, etc. It drove me mad, so I cannot imagine how you are coping with your mother.

The feeling I get from your post is that although this is a current problem, you are still very angry with her for things that you missed out on as a kid. It is important to put this to one side. She may have felt that she was doing the right thing at the time. You are an adult now, and although she annoys you now, you need to get over blaming her for how she parented you.

Instead of getting annoyed with her, try to use humour. If ever money comes up, try to be funny with it- "How much is your rent?", "A euro a week", "how much was that dress?", "A euro", "How much do you earn per month?", "a euro".
When she starts to get annoyed with you, which she will, just laugh it off and tell her you don't wanna talk to her about money as she will put a downer on everything being a rip off. The important thing is your tone. Just be jolly and say, "Look, it makes me uncomfortable that you pass judgement on how I spend my money so it's best for us if we just don't talk about it". It seems like (from your previous post) that she genuinely doesn't know how constant it is. She may need little reminders from time to time. It is important not to attack her though, just mention that she is frequently mentions money and try to divert the conversation onto something else.

When we were kids, whenever my dad got us a treat/ present/ etc. we would ask where he got it, and he always said "I found it in a bin". We eventually stopped asking!

Maura74

Tell her she is a cynic knows the prices of everything and the value of nothing. Hopefully quoting Oscar Wilde to her will do the trick.

thefeatheredcat

I was wondering why she adopts different attitudes to how she spends her money (shopping in Tesco, hairdo) and how you spend your money (medical physio, for example) and the difference that I see is that she can't see the benefit of how you spend your money, same with paying for "expensive meals". I think in her mind it kind of works like

something free = benefit

something that is low cost under a certain mental amount that produces a tangible outcome = benefit

something over that amount is only a justifiable benefit if and only if she pleases to justify spending the money on it (meal out for example where the food served = the expectation she has on how much she is spending) but where she can see a visible tangible result for it to be a benefit at the same time. At the same time you have the nit picking about rugs and kitchen appliances, probably in her head stuff like rugs and home furnishings would be valueless even though they serve a function.

It probably is how she is raised and probably so ingrained in her since childhood that if something was bought there had to be something to show for it in a tangible way.

I don't really know if that makes any sense at all, but at this stage, this is a huge part of her, a part of her as a person and her past that I don't think it would ever be a simple issue to address even as to how to affects others plus it has gone on ignored by her husband and in general, accepted and never really confronted.

The only thing you can do for yourself is either deal with it how you always have, ignore it or really give a sales pitch on how something is a tangible benefit, not so much to justify the purchase but to if you like "explain the benefit" of having purchased it.

I would possibly guess there's some resentment / jealously towards how you spend your money too and on what that you are actually able to whereas she probably feels she cannot. Kind of like the way I've read that someone who has gone without food through neglect, when given some, might still hide or hoard food, just in case, even when there's no need to do so.

How has she reacted with being given gifts? Does she deem them as valueless to her or does she appreciate them? Has it happened that due to her complaining about the expense of even a reasonable priced meal, someone else has ended up paying, has it been the case she'd happily accept that or does she reject the offer and still complain?

How would she handle say something like stuff she didn't have as a child being given to her now, or encouraged to purchase stuff like that now as an adult?

I'm half on board with about where stuff comes from that it may be better to tell a white lie/stretch the truth rather than to get a huge load of criticisms about stuff like saying it was from the €2 shop / charity shop / a gift / marked down on offer and with other things you could say like you won a (work related) raffle or a competition online or found a cheap deal online, you know stuff she probably wouldn't go out of her way to verify and just accept.

Chara1001

Op you're coming across as rude.

No insult intended but people are only giving you advice that you've asked for. I don't know what you want to be told. Fact is you CAN control what you tell your mother, you don't have to tell her anything if you don't want to and in time she will get it.

Good luck

Lunni

Chara1001 wrote: »

Op you're coming across as rude.

No insult intended but people are only giving you advice that you've asked for. I don't know what you want to be told. Fact is you CAN control what you tell your mother, you don't have to tell her anything if you don't want to and in time she will get it.

Good luck

I have already stated that I don't mean to be rude, but I specifically said in my OP that there is no point in people telling me to ignore her or not to talk about money because it's missing the point. I tried to describe in great detail what the problems are and how they affect every aspect of my life. I genuinely can't 'ignore her' without completely cutting her off because all she can think about is money and how much things cost. I don't know how I can explain this in any other way. If it were a matter of just 'not talking to her about money', I would have sorted it out by now!

thefeatheredcat - interesting post. I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with the tangible benefits thing. I think she needs to have some sort of evidence of what she's paid for, so paying 200 quid for a haircut is fine, but paying 50 quid for a massage is a waste.

There is definitely a lot of resentment there too, which is ridiculous because I have far, far less than what she had at my age, despite achieving much better results (school, college, Master's) and working in better jobs. When she was my age, she'd bought a house and a car, something I can only dream of. We only recently bought a television, for God's sake, and that was second-hand. Yes, she does seem to begrudge me anything I buy for the house, for example. My second-hand, 20 quid IKEA bookcase is a 'waste of money' yet in her own house, everything has to be the best. It sort of ends up making me feel like I don't deserve to have anything. This is one of the things I find most upsetting. As if she wants me to live in total poverty for some reason.

As for other people paying...no, she generally wouldn't accept, she'd generally pay and keep complaining. My partner recently paid for a meal and she was angry with him for paying I know he only did it because he feels so awkward and indebted when she pays, that he'd rather just pay himself. This is another thing that really upsets me - the way she treats my boyfriend and other guests. I don't see how this can be resolved by me not mentioning money. I tried to explain to her that it's unnecessary to explain to my boyfriend that she doesn't want to go anywhere too expensive, because he's a nice, normal person and he's not going to take her to the Ritz and order lobster. I tried to explain that it is the absolute height of rudeness to keep going on about money when taking a guest out for dinner. She kind of did listen but dismissed me and continues to do it.

As for buying stuff now...she says she never spends money on herself, but she does. She wouldn't think anything of spending a few hundred on a hotel or an outfit. She wouldn't dream of shopping in charity shops like I do. This is the part I most don't get - she's not even thrifty. Hmm.

Lunni

Maura74 wrote: »

Tell her she is a cynic knows the prices of everything and the value of nothing. Hopefully quoting Oscar Wilde to her will do the trick.

Hahaha, it's true, though. It's sad. I want her to be able to see that things have value beyond what the 'price' is!

Roisy7

Lunni I remember your other posts here and I really think the time has come to get professional help. Counselling, especially learning about mindfulness and detachment would do you the power of good.

It's easy for us to say ignore her or laugh it off, but you're so enmeshed in this it's very hard. Having said that there's no need to let this pretty trivial thing affect you so deeply so counselling would be the way to go IMO.

I know how frustrating meanness can be, but its her issue, not yours.

Lunni

Roisy7 wrote: »

Lunni I remember your other posts here and I really think the time has come to get professional help. Counselling, especially learning about mindfulness and detachment would do you the power of good.

It's easy for us to say ignore her or laugh it off, but you're so enmeshed in this it's very hard. Having said that there's no need to let this pretty trivial thing affect you so deeply so counselling would be the way to go IMO.

I know how frustrating meanness can be, but its her issue, not yours.

FYI, I am having counselling, but I find your remark about this being trivial incredibly rude. It really isn't that trivial and it most definitely isn't just me. My brother has basically disowned my mum due to her scabbiness, my boyfriend now all but refuses to spend time with my family and my parents are basically separated because of this.

I don't think the posters saying 'laugh it off' have had to deal with a person like this. It's not just being scabby, it's everything that goes with it. It's not a matter of paying for my own dinner in a restaurant or telling my mam the coffee table cost less than it did - sure, that might help a bit and I'll give it all a try, but it's not getting to the root of the problem.

The counsellor I'm seeing was pretty shocked when I told her everything I've written in this thread and tbh, it does sound worse said out loud. She seems to think I should cut her off, but I really don't want to. This is only one aspect of her personality, albeit it a very difficult and alienating one.

Roisy7

Lunni wrote: »

FYI, I am having counselling, but I find your remark about this being trivial incredibly rude. It really isn't that trivial and it most definitely isn't just me. My brother has basically disowned my mum due to her scabbiness, my boyfriend now all but refuses to spend time with my family and my parents are basically separated because of this.

I don't think the posters saying 'laugh it off' have had to deal with a person like this. It's not just being scabby, it's everything that goes with it. It's not a matter of paying for my own dinner in a restaurant or telling my mam the coffee table cost less than it did - sure, that might help a bit and I'll give it all a try, but it's not getting to the root of the problem.

The counsellor I'm seeing was pretty shocked when I told her everything I've written in this thread and tbh, it does sound worse said out loud. She seems to think I should cut her off, but I really don't want to. This is only one aspect of her personality, albeit it a very difficult and alienating one.

Ok, poor choice of words, I apologise. I do understand your frustrations and concerns, it seems to me that the problem does not have to be as complex as this.

Look your mum is not a particularly nice person and is as mean as dykewater. That hasn't changed since forever. We can wonder at her motivations until next week but we won't get any joy. What can be changed is your reaction to the situation. There's no need IMO to cut her off but you can deal with her, manage your reactions to her.

There have been a large no of posts here giving you strategies to deal with her, from the flippant to the serious. People want to help.

For a counsellor to advise you to cut her off and not go into strategies such as mindfulness or detachment is quite strange to me. Perhaps I'm wrong. I still think you should google detaching with love.

PlainP

Lunni wrote: »

FYI, I am having counselling, but I find your remark about this being trivial incredibly rude. It really isn't that trivial and it most definitely isn't just me. My brother has basically disowned my mum due to her scabbiness, my boyfriend now all but refuses to spend time with my family and my parents are basically separated because of this.

I don't think the posters saying 'laugh it off' have had to deal with a person like this. It's not just being scabby, it's everything that goes with it. It's not a matter of paying for my own dinner in a restaurant or telling my mam the coffee table cost less than it did - sure, that might help a bit and I'll give it all a try, but it's not getting to the root of the problem.

The counsellor I'm seeing was pretty shocked when I told her everything I've written in this thread and tbh, it does sound worse said out loud. She seems to think I should cut her off, but I really don't want to. This is only one aspect of her personality, albeit it a very difficult and alienating one.

What about asking your mother to go for counselling?
She sounds to me to be a bit unhinged and and practically obsessed over the whole money thing.
You need to try and get her to see how badly this is affecting the whole family.
An intervention of some sort with the whole family standing together.
This has been going on too long now and you need to take constructive action to help your mother as well as the rest of your family.

Big Bag of Chips

Lunni wrote: »

It's not a matter of paying for my own dinner in a restaurant or telling my mam the coffee table cost less than it did - sure, that might help a bit and I'll give it all a try, but it's not getting to the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is your mother.

No amount of advice here, or counselling you have is going to change that.

She's the problem. She needs to change.

What you need to understand is that that is out of your control.

Abi

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

The root of the problem is your mother.

No amount of advice here, or counselling you have is going to change that.

She's the problem. She needs to change.

What you need to understand is that that is out of your control.

All of this ^

I have already stated that I don't mean to be rude, but I specifically said in my OP that there is no point in people telling me to ignore her or not to talk about money because it's missing the point.

You may not mean to, but you're coming across that way. People come here willing to take the time to answer people with issues for absolutely nothing other than the hope of helping out a stranger. I know this is really bothering you, but less snipey would be the way forward here.

I tried to describe in great detail what the problems are and how they affect every aspect of my life. I genuinely can't 'ignore her' without completely cutting her off

I, like so many other women have issues with my mother. She listens to nobody, she's makes indirect digs at me, I've rarely heard the word 'thanks' for the non stop errands I run for her, and if I pick her up on an issue I never hear 'I'm sorry'.

She also spends for herself at the drop of the hat, but tries to knock me for being thrifty frequently. There will be literally be NOTHING I can ever do right in her eyes, but do you know what?

I don't fücking care, those are her issues, not mine. I live my life how I choose, it's water off my back now. Admittedly I have a 'break' from her where I don't see her for a few weeks maybe once a year, but she behaves herself for a bit when I do.

I feel in control this way, she will never change. You need to accept this too, and learn to tailor your relationship with her, where she can no longer have this hold over you.

ahnow

That's a really difficult situation, I feel for you op! You were saying you don't want to cut her out of your life, which is perfectly understandable, she's your mam.
Is there any possibility that you might be able to sit her down and talk to her, or even write her a letter and just say simply that when it comes to money, you both think differently about it, and that you no longer want to discuss it with her in any way shape or form. So when she comes over and asks about the price of things, cut her dead and tell her you are not going to discuss that with her, as you've previously mentioned.
Likewise, when you go for family meals and it's brought up, cut it dead, Mam, I don't want to hear you talking or complaining about the price of the meal, it's not socially acceptable, it's rude, please stop, and if she doesn't, don't entertain it, leave.
You can't change her behaviour, but you can change how you react to it, show her that you're not going to entertain it or tolerate it any more, she might get the message, then again, she might not.
Best of luck!

Jo King

I had a friend who always bitched about the price of everything. It was just a habit. He was a multi-millionaire and wouldn't even notice it. I stopped it by always saying "If I knew you couldn't afford it I wouldn't have ....". I would treat every complaint as an indication that he couldn't afford something and deliberately misunderstand his protests.

ABajaninCork

PlainP wrote: »

What about asking your mother to go for counselling?
She sounds to me to be a bit unhinged and and practically obsessed over the whole money thing.
You need to try and get her to see how badly this is affecting the whole family.
An intervention of some sort with the whole family standing together.
This has been going on too long now and you need to take constructive action to help your mother as well as the rest of your family.

There's absolutely no point in this, IMO. It's a great idea, but given what the OP has told us here, I can't see the mother spending money to fix herself. You see, the mother really believes she has no problem! And she would probably think the exercise is a waste of time, not to mention money...

OP needs to see that the problem is with how SHE handles her mother's behaviour. For that, she'll need to carry on with her counsellor, or maybe change to another if she's not happy.

ronjo

I am not sure if this would work but why dont you turn it back on her??

"This cost you how much in Tescos? Wow, you could have got it for half that in Lidl and the quality is better"
"HOW much did you spend on your haircut, you really have money to burn?"

etc etc.

Roisy7

OP I know this is very tough for you but the more I think about it the more that there is an enabling pattern for her behaviour in the family. Have you ever spoken to your brother about how he feels about it? Look at your father's behaviour, he stays shtum for a "quiet life", thereby enabling her behaviour, and it's not working. At the moment you too are enabling her behaviour too by letting it get under your skin like this, and taking her comments/criticisms seriously and personally. Who's getting hurt here? It's not her; it's you. Whose behaviour can YOU change? Yours, not hers.

The realisation that I can't change anyone's behaviour has been the most liberating of my life. It helped me see things and situations in a far better way.

It is hard. But you have to work to shut this down, with this counsellor or another one. There are ways to stop things getting to you like this.

I know the family situation for you is far from ideal. But that's life. Things are never perfect. I used to think that my family situation was the only one that was weird, and that I was some kind of freak. But probably most of my friends have less than ideal family situations, whether in immediate or extended family situations. Good luck Lunni.

Kevster

Roisy7 wrote: »

The realisation that I can't change anyone's behaviour has been the most liberating of my life. It helped me see things and situations in a far better way.

It is hard. But you have to work to shut this down, with this counsellor or another one. There are ways to stop things getting to you like this.

This is so true ... I kept beating myself up years ago thinking that I needed to change the entire world for the better, but it's futile. Things will always go bad or - put a better way - bad situations will always find their way to our doorsteps.

I know what it's like to have to cope with a family member to whom we have an 'abrasive' relationship, but deal with it we must. You mentioned that the other option is to cut yourself off completely, and some other people in this world have chosen such an option. I'd prefer to say that you should just 'stop caring' and ensure that you focus on your own life's development...

If your mother wants to live in the way that she does, then that's fine for her - maybe she'll learn some day to change - but just keep yourself at a safe distance.

Kevin

Merkin

You're not going to change your mother. Changing someone's entire personality is impossible.

You can however alter the way in which you deal with her. I think a lot of good advice has already been given with regards to counseling and finding a way to work around this situation.

Thinking that you can change this woman is futile and the moment you realise that and act on your own reactions accordingly, then the sooner you will be happy and best equipped to manage your relationship with her.

Diziet

I also agree that changing her is not going to happen, but you can change the way you react to her, and that in turn may change the way she interacts with you.

What would happen if you stand up to her? So, if she has invited you for a meal for example, you could ask her beforehand not to comment about the prices as it makes you uncomfortable. If she still goes ahead and does it, you could walk out. She is likely to think twice next time she goes off complaining. (That is one particular scenario, BTW - you know what would play best and can choose an alternative). It is worth thinking through some of the way she winds you up with money comments and rehearse some assertive answers, as well as some assertive actions.

People are not made of glass - chances are she will take the comments on board if your actions say you are serious.