Westwood Gym Threatening/Punishing Members

winning

They have removed the 50kg dumbells and are saying they are going to take away the 45kg weights next week and keep going until they are left with weights their female staff can lift.

The reason for this is that they are saying some people don't replace the weights. To be fair some don't but that is the case in most big gyms.

The messages posted by the female manager are threatening and feature phrases like "we did warn you".

Think westwood want to turn into a fitness centre not a gym. Saw a post about Sandymount sectioning off a large section for females.

To be honest it wouldn't do their nearly all female staff any harm to lift a few weights around for a while.

Hanley

Tell them to f*ck off being sexist pigs so.

Hanley

...or just get their amazing new "celebrity trainer" to do it.

Dotcomdolly

Is it not like Ben dunnes gyms saying "put away db's after you or we"ll take them off the floor", except they are following through? I don't know why they are bringing gender in to it though, surely a woman who works in fitness can lift 50kg!

GreeBo

I think its a good idea, gyms are full of selfish feckers who leave huge weights (for some people) on bars or lying around the floor.

Why should a slight person (male or female) be forced into lumping around 50KG plates because someone else is refusing to follow the gym rules? Its very off putting for some people and would put them off going near the weights section at all, which is wrong.

There is a big difference between "a woman" benching 50KG and having to lift a 50KG plate off a bar/the floor and put it away IMO.

Burkatron

GreeBo wrote: »

I think its a good idea, gyms are full of selfish feckers who leave huge weights (for some people) on bars or lying around the floor.

Why should a slight person (male or female) be forced into lumping around 50KG plates because someone else is refusing to follow the gym rules? Its very off putting for some people and would put them off going near the weights section at all, which is wrong.

There is a big difference between "a woman" benching 50KG and having to lift a 50KG plate off a bar/the floor and put it away IMO.

It'd be easier for them to lift it off the floor, your comparison is very off!!
They're punishing all members for the action of some, absolute bull****!

winning

To those saying they agree etc etc

How would you like your car getting taken off you because some people speed or don't pay tax?

Or if you don't drive how about your bike because some guy broke the lights?

I have never in 6 years down there seen a member of staff confront anyone for leaving their weights around. Also, while it happens it isn't any better or worse than any other gym.

Solair

Isn't it sort of part of the service to ensure the equipment's organised correctly?

I can't imagine a supermarket admonishing customers for failing to put baskets back.

"Bing bong ... Attention customers: If you don't put baskets back we'll remove them and you'll have to carry the groceries around in your arms"

They'd have no customers if they did that

winning

Solair wrote: »

Isn't it sort of part of the service to ensure the equipment's organised correctly?

Exactly! Its great and good gym etiquette if people put them back but if they don't well then the staff have to!

It's like in McDonalds its nice if people clean the tables so the next people can use them quickly but if they don't then McDonalds provide a staff member to clean them.

winning

This was posted on the Gym Memes Facebook. The new notice posted this week outlines the removal of the 50kg and stating the 45kg will be removed next week. The new notice begins with "We did warn you..."

Doug Cartel

I don't know if it' a guideline or a law or what, but you can't ask a female to lift more than about 16kg, and that's for moving something at waist height, the limit for picking something off the floor is about 7kg.

Basically, if the employees don't want to pick the weights up, they can't be made.

EDIT: I'm not wording this right, I mean you can ask, but if they say no, you can't really do anything about it.

Gummy Panda

Is this reason enough to break my contract?

DM_7

Why don't they supervise those areas of the gym and tell people put the weight back before leaving or don't come back.

winning

DM-ICE wrote: »

Why don't they supervise those areas of the gym and tell people put the weight back before leaving or don't come back.

This is the logical solution but it requires effort - the staff like to congerate at the entrance area and talk rather than supervising.

Gummy Panda

DM-ICE wrote: »

Why don't they supervise those areas of the gym and tell people put the weight back before leaving or don't come back.

I would say they are afraid to confront members so do the passive aggressive option and hope others will police their gym. I've never seen the 50kg dumbbells left around though. Its always 10-20kg dumbbells.

GreeBo

Burkatron wrote: »

It'd be easier for them to lift it off the floor, your comparison is easy off!!
They're punishing all members for the action of some, absolute bull****!

Its much harder to lift something off the floor than lift something off a bench for example, Lifting it off the floor brings your back etc into it.

The gym doesnt *have* to provide plates/dumbells of this weight, they did it for the members. Some of the members are taking the piss and causing an issue, so the gym removes them, as is their right.

Unless your contract states what weights are going to be supplied then I cant see how you can use this to break your contract.

Supervision would require a member of staff to just do that...a complete waste of a resource and money for the gym.
Remember, its *your* gym, if you see people leaving weights, tell them!

winning

GreeBo wrote: »

Its much harder to lift something off the floor than lift something off a bench for example, Lifting it off the floor brings your back etc into it.

The gym doesnt *have* to provide plates/dumbells of this weight, they did it for the members. Some of the members are taking the piss and causing an issue, so the gym removes them, as is their right.

Unless your contract states what weights are going to be supplied then I cant see how you can use this to break your contract.

Supervision would require a member of staff to just do that...a complete waste of a resource and money for the gym.
Remember, its *your* gym, if you see people leaving weights, tell them!

The gym does have to provide plates/dumbells of this weight - it is a minimum standard for using the word gym.

It not your gym - its westwoods - they are the ones making a profit - its not a coop. Why would you spend your time chasing people to put their weights back disrupting your workout and possibly facing an aggressive reaction? Do you go around challenging every person who litters the street? Do you challenge everyone who leaves their rubbish in McDonalds? Do you challenge everyone who puts their feet on the seats on the DART? You could spend your life being a hero like this but all it leads is to extra hassle. You pay money for someone else to do it.

As the previous poster mentioned the heavier weights aren't even the main issue the ones that are left on the floor are the 10-20kg range mostly and its not THAT bad IMO - it could be improved obviously but its as bad as any other gym Ive been in.

Gummy Panda

winning wrote: »

As the previous poster mentioned the heavier weights aren't even the main issue the ones that are left on the floor are the 10-20kg range mostly and its not THAT bad IMO - it could be improved obviously but its as bad as any other gym Ive been in.

Yeah I'm finding this very suspect that the 50kg dumbbells are the issue when they are never kept on the rack but under it on the floor. I've never seen them left around the floor.

Maybe they should focus on fixing their equipment like the power rack with the hooks that won't go up due to rust.

winning

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Yeah I'm finding this very suspect that the 50kg dumbbells are the issue when they are never kept on the rack but under it on the floor. I've never seen them left around the floor.

Maybe they should focus on fixing their equipment like the power rack with the hooks that won't go up due to rust.

I honestly think there are looking for an excuse to get rid of the heavy weights and focus more on being a fitness centre for the ladies and overweight. These types for their own inferiority complex reasons are intimidated by the weightlifters.

They could start by actually marking on the racks were each weight goes at a minimum.

GreeBo

winning wrote: »

The gym does have to provide plates/dumbells of this weight - it is a minimum standard for using the word gym.

By who's definition of the word "gym"?
Yours?

winning wrote:

focus more on being a fitness centre for the ladies and overweight. These types for their own inferiority complex reasons are intimidated by the weightlifters.

Wow, condescend much?
I cant imagine where there "inferior fat and/or ladies" get their complex from, clearly its not being projected by any of the "men" who are members.

Sure they probably dont even lift...brah.:rolleyes:

Zamboni

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is this reason enough to break my contract?

As with anything legal. It depends.
A common misconception of commercial gyms is that it is a members organisation and therefore there would be rules that members would abide by in a similar fashion to a private members golf/tennis club.
Obviously this is brought about by the use of the incorrect use of the word "member".
There are no "members" in Westwood. Only a Company with paying customers.
If a person buys an annual service from a company at a set price with a clear concept of having the use of facilities and equipment, then what another "Customer" does or does not do should have no bearing on that contract.

I would kick up a fvcking stink tbh.

winning

GreeBo wrote: »

By who's definition of the word "gym"?
Yours?

Wow, condescend much?
I cant imagine where there "inferior fat and/or ladies" get their complex from, clearly its not being projected by any of the "men" who are members.

Sure they probably dont even lift...brah.:rolleyes:

A gym should have sufficient weights otherwise its a fitness centre. 50kg max is actually low for some guys I know other gyms in Dublin have 70kgs.

I hold nothing against the ladies/overweight - they should do more weights they would get far better results - but its obvious they are more comfortable running on the machines. I'm saying it would appear Westwood think this is a better market to aim at - they will probably buy more courses, spa treatments etc etc as well.

Max Q

The amount of times I've seen lads in my gym who are regulars and who appear to take their training very seriously and so should know a thing or two about gym etiquette, just walk away, leaving ridiculous amounts of weight (for most average gym users) on barbells. Why can't people strip the bar when they're done? It's just common courtesy. I'll admit I don't always replace the plates in the correct racks but I will always strip a barbell or replace dumbbells on the rack when I'm done. It takes 30 seconds to do and leaves an empty bar for the next user. I do it because that's how I would like the bar to be when I want to squat, bench, deadlift etc..

Saw this again just yesterday from a lad who is always in the gym and trains hard and clearly knows what he's at in the gym just walk away after deadlifting, leaving 160kg on the bar. He always struck me as a decent lad, but I just thought to myself 'what a tosser' when I saw him just walk away when he was done.

Zamboni

GreeBo wrote: »

Its much harder to lift something off the floor than lift something off a bench for example, Lifting it off the floor brings your back etc into it.

The gym doesnt *have* to provide plates/dumbells of this weight, they did it for the members. Some of the members are taking the piss and causing an issue, so the gym removes them, as is their right.

Unless your contract states what weights are going to be supplied then I cant see how you can use this to break your contract.

Supervision would require a member of staff to just do that...a complete waste of a resource and money for the gym.
Remember, its *your* gym, if you see people leaving weights, tell them!

No disrespect intended, but you are confused about the difference between a private members organisation and a customer/supplier contractual relationship.

Gummy Panda

BadTeacher wrote: »

The amount of times I've seen lads in my gym who are regulars and who appear to take their training very seriously and so should know a thing or two about gym etiquette, just walk away, leaving ridiculous amounts of weight (for most average gym users) on barbells. Why can't people strip the bar when they're done? It's just common courtesy. I'll admit I don't always replace the plates in the correct racks but I will always strip a barbell or replace dumbbells on the rack when I'm done. It takes 30 seconds to do and leaves an empty bar for the next user. I do it because that's how I would like the bar to be when I want to squat, bench, deadlift etc..

Saw this again just yesterday from a lad who is always in the gym and trains hard and clearly knows what he's at in the gym just walk away after deadlifting, leaving 160kg on the bar. He always struck me as a decent lad, but I just thought to myself 'what a tosser' when I saw him just walk away when he was done.

Only time I do that is when I think I'm going to throw up :pac:

GreeBo

Zamboni wrote: »

No disrespect intended, but you are confused about the difference between a private members organisation and a customer/supplier contractual relationship.

A fair point, but either way, if Im paying for something and another person is impacting my enjoyment of that, I'd want something done about it.
In the same way, if I pay for a cinema ticket and some tosser is impacting my enjoyment I'd want them removed.

Perhaps Westwood should just start monitoring and have a word with the individual culprits. I'd be surprised if there arent some customer obligations in the contract.

imnothim

before i say this, i dont agree with it...

a store worker where i do collections from showed me a guidline document from his health and safety dept. relating to manual handling. im reading it now and it says:

0-12kg one person lift
16-33kg two person lift
49-150kg power pallet truck lift

the gear we use falls into one if the three categories.

anyway health and safety people/ unions / general work dodgers, might be within their rights to refuse to lift a 50 kg db.


in short, health and safety broke the world.

winning

GreeBo wrote: »

A fair point, but either way, if Im paying for something and another person is impacting my enjoyment of that, I'd want something done about it.
In the same way, if I pay for a cinema ticket and some tosser is impacting my enjoyment I'd want them removed.

Perhaps Westwood should just start monitoring and have a word with the individual culprits. I'd be surprised if there arent some customer obligations in the contract.

Glad to see you have come around to the point of view that it is up to Westwood to monitor the situation.

GreeBo

winning wrote: »

Glad to see you have come around to the point of view that it is up to Westwood to monitor the situation.

I haven't.
I'd say it to someone if they were impacting my enjoyment of my own gym.

If I was Westwood Id probably take the same approach, just remove the problem. As above, its not feasible for them to have staff who can shunt 50+KG plates around all day, they have asked people to put the plates back, its not happening, so remove the heavy plates.

Keep doing this until you end up with either people bothering their arses to take the 30s to put their equipment back OR you end up in a gym with only light weights that *all* their staff can safely handle.

winning

GreeBo wrote: »

I haven't.
I'd say it to someone if they were impacting my enjoyment of my own gym.

If I was Westwood Id probably take the same approach, just remove the problem. As above, its not feasible for them to have staff who can shunt 50+KG plates around all day, they have asked people to put the plates back, its not happening, so remove the heavy plates.

Keep doing this until you end up with either people bothering their arses to take the 30s to put their equipment back OR you end up in a gym with only light weights that *all* their staff can safely handle.

Ok you clearly have a different point of view but its wrong.

GreeBo

Your well thought out, cogent argument has swayed me.
:rolleyes:

winning

GreeBo wrote: »

Your well thought out, cogent argument has swayed me.
:rolleyes:

See my posts above for my argument no point in restating it again.

Gummy Panda

GreeBo wrote: »

I haven't.
I'd say it to someone if they were impacting my enjoyment of my own gym.

If I was Westwood Id probably take the same approach, just remove the problem. As above, its not feasible for them to have staff who can shunt 50+KG plates around all day, they have asked people to put the plates back, its not happening, so remove the heavy plates.

Keep doing this until you end up with either people bothering their arses to take the 30s to put their equipment back OR you end up in a gym with only light weights that *all* their staff can safely handle.

Eh... they're not 50kg plates. They're dumbbells which can be rolled under the rack. I don't see why they need to be on the rack.

Anyway if they keep doing this, I'll just cancel direct debit and quit. Then I'll go to RAW and leave 50kg dumbbells on the floor for COH :pac:

COH

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Anyway if they keep doing this, I'll just cancel direct debit and quit. Then I'll go to RAW and leave 50kg dumbbells on the floor for COH :pac:

Zamboni

GreeBo wrote: »

I haven't.
I'd say it to someone if they were impacting my enjoyment of my own gym.

If I was Westwood Id probably take the same approach, just remove the problem. As above, its not feasible for them to have staff who can shunt 50+KG plates around all day, they have asked people to put the plates back, its not happening, so remove the heavy plates.

Keep doing this until you end up with either people bothering their arses to take the 30s to put their equipment back OR you end up in a gym with only light weights that *all* their staff can safely handle.

You said I had a fair point and then you disregarded it.

Westwood has a duty of care to its employees and its customers.
If some customers are causing a H&S issue, then Westwood should deal with it appropriately.
Withdrawing a service from other complaint paying customers is not an appropriate course of action.

In your cinema analogy above, how would you feel if the cinemas response to one disruptive customer would be to cut the last ten minutes from the movie and affect the entire audience?

Tigger

All I know is I curl or lift up to 35 kg bells
I'm 18 stone and feel like I'm pretty strong trained for a few years etc etc
Whoever is leaving 50 kg dumbbells lying around is probably a hardcore gym rat and isn't leaving bells lying around

COH

Tigger wrote: »

Whoever is leaving 50 kg dumbbells lying around is probably a hardcore gym rat and isn't leaving bells lying around

whoever is leaving them around isn't leaving them around?

That's the entire problem solved!

Nicely played Sir

Tigger

COH wrote: »

whoever is leaving them around isn't leaving them around?

That's the entire problem solved!

Nicely played Sir

i meannthat its probably not the 50kg bell being left around but this countdown wound be different if it started with the 5kg weights

edit:for a start it would be a count up

GreeBo

Zamboni wrote: »

You said I had a fair point and then you disregarded it.

Westwood has a duty of care to its employees and its customers.
If some customers are causing a H&S issue, then Westwood should deal with it appropriately.
Withdrawing a service from other complaint paying customers is not an appropriate course of action.

In your cinema analogy above, how would you feel if the cinemas response to one disruptive customer would be to cut the last ten minutes from the movie and affect the entire audience?

I'm not disregarding it, I'm looking at it from their point of view.

It's far easier for them to just remove the plates, that way no one gets injured and sues and they dont have to waste resources chasing people who cant follow simple rules.
Sure some people might leave, but I'd be pretty confident that the people using 50KGs are in the vast minority. Also the lack of attitude towards someone who cannot lift 50KG would probably encourage other "fat/women" to join the gym.

I think your cinema analogy is a stretch, you pay for an entire film, you are not explicitly paying for 50KG weights.

A closer example would be something like people leaving glass bottles/glasses on the floor of the cinema, its s safety issue for staff and other customers, so they decide to just stop serving it.

the_syco

The thing is; will they increase the amount of smaller weights? Otherwise one person will end up having ALL THE WEIGHTS on one bar...



Heck, I can see some people doing it just to make a point.

Zamboni

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not disregarding it, I'm looking at it from their point of view.

That is the problem.
You think this is a health and safety issue.
It is actually a consumer issue.

senordingdong

Solair wrote: »

Isn't it sort of part of the service to ensure the equipment's organised correctly?

I can't imagine a supermarket admonishing customers for failing to put baskets back.

"Bing bong ... Attention customers: If you don't put baskets back we'll remove them and you'll have to carry the groceries around in your arms"

They'd have no customers if they did that

This tbh.

I hate inconsiderate assholes too but if ww follow through with this threat, then they too would be falling into the category of inconsiderate assholes.
If my gym did this I would be pulling my sub immediately.

GreeBo

Zamboni wrote: »

That is the problem.
You think this is a health and safety issue.
It is actually a consumer issue.

Its an issue for their staff who are unable or unwilling to lift weights of that weight. I dont think you can just ignore this just because those weights happen to mean nothing to you.

These are the guidelines for a "fit and healthy male" and they advise lowering by 1/3rd for females.


I think its fair enough for them to have an issue with their staff being forced to lift 50KG multiple times a day.

Gummy Panda

They should get a little portable crane for them. They spend enough money on useless junk (gravity gym) so they can spend it on something useless otherwise they'll have to down size to 15kg dumbbells due to mostly female staff.

winning

This isn't an office job.

Some jobs have inherent risk/requirements for you to do them.

Rugby player - risks getting hit with the collision of a car crash on a regular basis.

DJ - risks their hearing.

Pilot - risks plane falling out of the sky + must have perfect vision.

Soldier - risk getting killed/maimed etc.

You can try to minimise these risks but if you want to do the job you have except them.


The obvious answer is for the heavy dumbells that the female staff can't lift to be left underneath the racks in a designated spot. That way they can be rolled over. It also means if someone picks one up and mishandles it, it doesn't drop to the floor and potentially on their toe.

Many of the heavy weights are already currently left under the racks at the moment or reracked. As stated above the 10-20kg range is the main problem - which says to me Westwood have ulterior motives for wanting the heavy weights out.

Zamboni

GreeBo wrote: »

Its an issue for their staff who are unable or unwilling to lift weights of that weight. I dont think you can just ignore this just because those weights happen to mean nothing to you.

These are the guidelines for a "fit and healthy male" and they advise lowering by 1/3rd for females.

I think its fair enough for them to have an issue with their staff being forced to lift 50KG multiple times a day.

This is not about women or weights or safe lifting guidelines.

It is about a commercial service provider breaking a service agreement with a customer because of reasons OUTSIDE of the individual customers control.

The OP would probably be within their rights to expect a refund for the remainder of the contract as Westwood are not fulfilling the service that was engaged.
OP, go the NCA for advice.
http://www.nca.ie/

GreeBo

Zamboni wrote: »

This is not about women or weights or safe lifting guidelines.

It is about a commercial service provider breaking a service agreement with a customer because of reasons OUTSIDE of the individual customers control.

The OP would probably be within their rights to expect a refund for the remainder of the contract as Westwood are not fulfilling the service that was engaged.
OP, go the NCA for advice.
http://www.nca.ie/

Does the contract mention what weights would be available?
I dont see how you can say they are breaking any agreement unless they are specifically mentioned in the signed agreement.

The Davestator

Gummy Panda wrote: »

They should get a little portable crane for them. They spend enough money on useless junk (gravity gym) so they can spend it on something useless otherwise they'll have to down size to 15kg dumbbells due to mostly female staff.

Have you tried a gravity class? I'm assuming not, as its a deceptively tough class.

decisions

They don't 'have to' provide heavy weights, so I don't see anyone getting a refund.

GreeBo

winning wrote: »

This isn't an office job.

Some jobs have inherent risk/requirements for you to do them.

Rugby player - risks getting hit with the collision of a car crash on a regular basis.

DJ - risks their hearing.

Pilot - risks plane falling out of the sky + must have perfect vision.

Soldier - risk getting killed/maimed etc.

You can try to minimise these risks but if you want to do the job you have except them.

None of that has anything to do with staff having to lift weights that they are physically incapable of lifting...

Its probably a H&S issue for Westwood to have the weights on the floor, hence them having staff trying to put them away.
If a patron was injured due to tripping over a weight that was left on the floor *by a member of staff* they would have a lawsuit on their hands.

winning

GreeBo wrote: »

None of that has anything to do with staff having to lift weights that they are physically incapable of lifting...

Its probably a H&S issue for Westwood to have the weights on the floor, hence them having staff trying to put them away.
If a patron was injured due to tripping over a weight that was left on the floor *by a member of staff* they would have a lawsuit on their hands.

If a pilot doesn't have perfect vision they cant fly a plane. If a gym floor staff member can't lift the weights they can't work on a gym floor. Or they find another solution like putting the weights underneath the rack.