Have you ever experienced hibernophobia?

Bertie Woot

Hibernophobia aka anti-Irish sentiment may refer to or include persecution, discrimination, hatred or fear of the Irish as an ethnic or national group, whether directed against Ireland in general, or against Irish immigrants and their descendants in the Irish diaspora. In the past the Irish have been unfairly negatively stereotyped, and whilst some Irish people have viewed "Paddy Irishman" jokes and other stereotyping as harmless banter, others object, viewing it as a form of racism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernophobe

The English have been the most obvious hibernophobes closest to home, and anti-Irish racism is as old as the 12th century, and is not the result of IRA terrorism, says a recent study. Please take the time to read this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ir...s-1342976.html

This thread is not intended to stoke up anti-English feeling aka anglophobia, which is as equally objectionable to hibernophobia, it is to ask Irish people if you have ever experienced, or felt that you have experienced prejudice, discrimination and negative stereotyping because of your nationality, and if so, how did you respond to it?

im invisible

no, i love sleeping for the winter

Micky Dolenz

I thought it was because I am a bit of a dick but it must have been hibernophobia all along. Sweet.

gallag

Stupid paddys.
(Now everyone can answer yes)

Grayson

I've seen it a couple of times. But only from people who were generally racist dicks. They hated everyone.

I was surprised when i was abroad last summer and met two Irish guys who had been living in Bradford for the last 30 years. They were the most racist people I'd ever met.

gallag

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

the purple tin

Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman and Paddy Scotsman walk in to a bar, a good time was had by all.

Grayson

gallag wrote: »

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

We have chins. :P

shar01

Bertie Woot wrote: »

... negative stereotyping because of your nationality, and if so, how did you respond to it?

About ten years ago on hols in the Canary Islands, I was in a group of six sitting outside a restaurant. At the next table was an English family (I'm guessing three generations). Anyway waiter drops a glass (it shattered loudly) and the grandmother of the English family said "Oh my gawd, I thought it was a facking bomb" and looked at our table.

We didn't respond - she was looking for a fight so why should we spoil our holiday and give her one!

Does this count?

GRMA

Yeah, mainly from the self loathing Irish minority.

nocoverart

Ah who cares, It's nothing personal.

tipptom

gallag wrote: »

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

Take that back,yere place is full of gingers mingers.

greenflash

If you go looking for such a problem, it's no surprise that you find it. The vast majority of orinary people in Britain and Ireland are cool with themselves and each other.

SicklySweet

First and only time i experienced it, was on holiday and a group of people from England decided to burn the Irish flag.

Quite scary.

Lucy and Harry

gallag wrote: »

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

Shane Ward winning X Factor proves you wrong.


I remember in Magaluf I saw about 18 years ago a sign in the window of a bar No dogs or Irish.....

I was young then and felt maybe I should not hang around and get the taxi back to Santa Ponza.Should have smashed the windows or set fire to the place looking back as it was day time and no one was around.

Yamanoto

GRMA wrote: »

Yeah, mainly from the self loathing Irish minority.

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circadian

Was once told that during Bloody Sunday that "we didn't kill enough of you".
He was firmly in his arse.

Was also once told by a National Front member that I had no right to hold an Irish passport if I was from Nothern Ireland. He also said that Irish passport holders had no place in the education system in England.

I just told him he was mental because he clearly was.

1ZRed

Jesus, we've phobias about everything nowadays, don't we?

circadian

1ZRed wrote: »

Jesus, we've phobias about everything nowadays, don't we?

I'm a phobiaphobiac.

Madam_X

Yamanoto wrote: »

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I don't think it's that unreasonable. There's a bizarre amount of it in this country - and all that "I'm ashamed to be Irish" sh1t. Can't say I've been struck by same from other nationalities.

Although I would understand embarrassment at some stuff (like Irish people being dicks in Australia) but certainly wouldn't feel in some way accountable for it.

grenache

gallag wrote: »

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

Scotland has the most gingers of any country in the world, last time I looked Scotland was in Britain.

dd972

Is this a thread for Jambo's ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.

Micky Dolenz

Madam_X wrote: »

I don't think it's that unreasonable. There's a bizarre amount of it in this country - and all that "I'm ashamed to be Irish" sh1t. Can't say I've been struck by same from other nationalities.

Although I would understand embarrassment at some stuff (like Irish people being dicks in Australia) but certainly wouldn't feel in some way accountable for it.

How many cultures have you been exposed to though? Insecurity isn't a nationality issue, it's a peoples issue.

Madam

grenache wrote: »

Scotland has the most gingers of any country in the world, last time I looked Scotland was in Britain.

Yes and its (possibly) the only country in the world where they are not vilfied - well not as much as they would be in England and to a lesser extent Ireland(depends where in Ireland your from);).

Oh and as to the Hibernophobia! Once heard a girl in a pub ask here friend for a glass of cider - she shouts to him as he's on his way to the bar 'don't get me the fenian stuff(I assume she meant Magners)!

dd972

SicklySweet wrote: »

First and only time i experienced it, was on holiday and a group of people from England decided to burn the Irish flag.

Quite scary.

English yobs who tailcoat Loyalism in it's Glasgow Rangers or Ulster paramilitary guises are usually inadequate saddo's attracted by it's macho allure, Chelsea have an element of these in their fan base, people from Slough or Staines with no culture, identity or accent so they go looking for one.

AngeGal

Couple of times from a German guy, he thought he was very funny and made a few remarks before including "Don't talk to him. He's from Dublin. (I'm not but anyway). They see off bombs in pubs in Dublin." I just left it because it was at a work event.

Anyway off he starts again the next night about thanks for the bailout, etc in front of 5/6 people. My response "How many times has Germany gone bankrupt? Ireland has made mistakes but at least we didn't go bankrupt because we liked killing people."

Probably OTT response but I'd had enough.

Lucy and Harry

Should have mentioned ww2 to him.
I guess he would have loved me I am Irish and have Jewish ancestry....:eek:

gugleguy

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Should have mentioned ww2 to him.
I guess he would have loved me I am Irish and have Jewish ancestry....:eek:

And remember to mention the swastika

shar01

AngeGal wrote: »

Couple of times from a German guy, he thought he was very funny and made a few remarks before including "Don't talk to him. He's from Dublin. (I'm not but anyway). They see off bombs in pubs in Dublin." I just left it because it was at a work event.

Anyway off he starts again the next night about thanks for the bailout, etc in front of 5/6 people. My response "How many times has Germany gone bankrupt? Ireland has made mistakes but at least we didn't go bankrupt because we liked killing people."

Probably OTT response but I'd had enough.

This reminds me - we were in Vienna in 2008 for the Euros. Again sitting outside a cafe, there was a group of German fans at the next table. When they heard our accents, one turned around and asked why Ireland had voted No to the Lisbon Treaty? "Because we could, democracy and all that" was the answer. He quickly turned back to his mates

Although in hindsight, democracy hasn't really worked out well for us...:(

tipptom

AngeGal wrote: »

Couple of times from a German guy, he thought he was very funny and made a few remarks before including "Don't talk to him. He's from Dublin. (I'm not but anyway). They see off bombs in pubs in Dublin." I just left it because it was at a work event.

Anyway off he starts again the next night about thanks for the bailout, etc in front of 5/6 people. My response "How many times has Germany gone bankrupt? Ireland has made mistakes but at least we didn't go bankrupt because we liked killing people."

Probably OTT response but I'd had enough.

Should have done a basil fawlty on him

My name is URL

I've never personally experienced any anti-Irish sentiment. Have been subjected to racial abuse a few times around the world though. 4-5 times in London actually.. from Indian / Pakistani people =/

Jhcx

So the English hate the Irish the Americans hate the English and everyone strongly dislikes the French . I've had a few ppl try to call me a paddy they soon shut up

Pj!

One comment from some stranger in a foreign country a few years ago (I asked him directions). I didn't know it was called hibernophobia until now but I guess that's what it was. My life went on unchanged and I'm sure his did too.

Lucy and Harry

What is a Paddy??

Ruudi_Mentari

Yeah this guy was like he had a tick, Tourettes almost, couldn't help it his neck would snap back violently and he'd blurt out "Paddy" but almost sounded like "Baddy" and he couldn't help it n he'd really spit it, viscuously.

Lucy and Harry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk&feature=player_detailpage

Truncheon Rouge

Great. Now if anyone questions my politics I can accuse them of being an anti-hibernite.

philologos

I honestly hope the term "hibernophobia" never comes into common usage in the English language.

saabsaab

One time really, this girl came up to me in a bar in Bolton and asked if I was Irish. I thought this was going to be my luck nite and said yep. She then when on to say that Irish are thick and I must be thick...big let down. Only other is when people (many Irish say this too) say that something is a bit Irish - meaning stupid.

Yamanoto

Madam_X wrote: »

I don't think it's that unreasonable. There's a bizarre amount of it in this country - and all that "I'm ashamed to be Irish" sh1t. Can't say I've been struck by same from other nationalities.

Although I would understand embarrassment at some stuff (like Irish people being dicks in Australia) but certainly wouldn't feel in some way accountable for it.

Perhaps I'm doing GRMA a disservice.

You'll often find however, the 'self-loathing Irishman' argument is trotted out by some Republicans on Boards as a 'catch-all' term for those who don't subscribe to a standardised notion of how Irish folk should think, feel and react by default.

As for the broader issue, I also find myself baulking at the 'oh what will the [insert nationality here] think of us' mindset.

Where To

I did once, so I switched to PMPA.

Wattle

Not anti-Irish sentiment but I did experience anti-white sentiment in Jamaica. There was a group of us sitting on the steps of a bank when this dude pulled up in a car and started shouting at us to 'get off my island'. There's a certain amount of dickheads wherever you go.

Lucy and Harry

Saw a girl called a white catholic bitch for walking down the road past a taxi rank in Turkey??
And hey you Irish are no good..
Then they went all mad when I said your mommas a CAMEL...They can give but cant take some people.

Legs.Eleven

the purple tin wrote: »

Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman and Paddy Scotsman walk in to a bar, a good time was had by all.

Love it and it couldn't be truer.


I experience more Hibernophilia on a day-to-day basis. This lot (Spanish) want our babies.

Legs.Eleven

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Saw a girl called a white catholic bitch for walking down the road past a taxi rank??
And hey you Irish are no good..
Then they went all mad when I said your mommas a CAMEL...They can give but cant take some people.

Lay off the mushrooms, pal.

Madam

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Love it and it couldn't be truer.


I experience more Hibernophilia on a day-to-day basis. This lot (Spanish) want our babies.

To eat?:)

Bertie Woot

gallag wrote: »

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

We are not the same. The English came from a different island, colonised Ireland, then negatively stereotyped the entire Irish people as "stupid", "alcoholics", "lazy" and most recently, "terrorists" to justify 800 years of British colonial oppression, tyranny and genocide. The Irish have never done that to England or indeed any other nation, and now that England the coloniser has become the colonised, they can no longer hold onto their outdated and redundant superiority complex.

As for gingervitis, as well as infecting large swathes of Scotland and Ireland, it has also infected many parts of England. Queen Elizabeth II and her entire extended royal family are all gingers. Most have their hair dyed regularly, with Prince Harry being the only member of the Windsor household to not care.

shar01 wrote: »

About ten years ago on hols in the Canary Islands, I was in a group of six sitting outside a restaurant. At the next table was an English family (I'm guessing three generations). Anyway waiter drops a glass (it shattered loudly) and the grandmother of the English family said "Oh my gawd, I thought it was a facking bomb" and looked at our table.

We didn't respond - she was looking for a fight so why should we spoil our holiday and give her one!

Does this count?

Yes, very much so, and I have experienced similar. In 2009 (11 years after the Good Friday Agreement) I was going through security at Manchester airport and was pulled to one side and asked if I was in possession of a mobile phone. I produced my phone and they began rubbing a special cloth all over it to check for signs of explosives. It didn't bother me that much at the time, as I thought they were just doing their job, but in retrospect, I don't think anyone else was subjected to this. Perhaps I just give off a terrorist vibe (might have been the balaclava) ..

Madam_X wrote: »

Oh yeh, was in a Manchester bar as a teen (about two months after the '94 ceasefire) with my dad, uncle, cousin and a few other Irish people (not that Manchester isn't full of Irish anyway). Next thing there was a loud bang outside, gave us all quite a jolt. Never found out what it was. Our group got dirty looks from a few people in the bar... but that could have been in my head.

It may have been paranoia, on the other hand, maybe not. A lot of perceived discrimination is very subjective by nature and thus not provable; but if you feel that you have experienced 'hibernophobia', you probably have.

SicklySweet wrote: »

First and only time i experienced it, was on holiday and a group of people from England decided to burn the Irish flag.

Quite scary.

That's pretty blatant. Just as blatant as Northern Protestants burning the Irish tricolour and an effigy of the Pope every year at their 11th July bonfires. Yes, it really happens.

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Shane Ward winning X Factor proves you wrong.

I remember in Magaluf I saw about 18 years ago a sign in the window of a bar No dogs or Irish.....

I was young then and felt maybe I should not hang around and get the taxi back to Santa Ponza.Should have smashed the windows or set fire to the place looking back as it was day time and no one was around.

"No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" and "No Irish Need Apply" (NINA signs) were a common sight in the windows of bed and breakfasts in London in the 1960's, a time long before political correctness. Anti-Irish discrimination was rife in England at that time, and you'll still encounter it today, only in a much subtler form.

circadian wrote: »

Was once told that during Bloody Sunday that "we didn't kill enough of you".
He was firmly in his arse.

Again, very blatant. but you don't know where this level of animosity is coming from. Perhaps one of his family or friends was in the British Army and liked by the IRA, you don't know. Still, that doesn't justify that type of sentiment, as the bloody Sunday massacre was also unjustified, and Cameron even apologised to the families of the people in Derry who were gunned down by the paratroop regiment.

Was also once told by a National Front member that I had no right to hold an Irish passport if I was from Nothern Ireland. He also said that Irish passport holders had no place in the education system in England.

I just told him he was mental because he clearly was.

Another very clear and blatant example of hibernophobia. The NF are a far-right organisation akin to the BNP, many of their members are English football hooligans and undereducated, so not surprised you experienced this level of prejudice and hostility. The irony of course is that the people in NI are British, Northern Irish and Irish, and you can choose to be either Irish or British, or both and hold both a British and Irish passport if you choose.

Many English people also oppose Northern Ireland's place within the UK, as NI benefits slightly more under the Barnett Formula, and some English people resent that despite the NI economy suffering a lot more due to 30 years of political violence. During my time on a UK forum I learned that most English people (certainly on that forum) are in favour of Irish unification, as they view N.Ireland as "a nuisance state", a "waste of British tax-payer's money" and "a liability" They do not appreciate Ulster's 'loyalty'.

Madam wrote: »

Yes and its (possibly) the only country in the world where they are not vilfied - well not as much as they would be in England and to a lesser extent Ireland(depends where in Ireland your from);).

Oh and as to the Hibernophobia! Once heard a girl in a pub ask here friend for a glass of cider - she shouts to him as he's on his way to the bar 'don't get me the fenian stuff(I assume she meant Magners)!

"Fenian" was an umbrella term for the Fenian Brotherhood and Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB) before being used by Ulster Protestants as a derogatory term to describe not just Irish Republicans but Catholics in general. Like the term "fascist", it is has generally been viewed as a term of abuse by the Irish Catholic minority in NI.

dd972 wrote: »

English yobs who tailcoat Loyalism in it's Glasgow Rangers or Ulster paramilitary guises are usually inadequate saddo's attracted by it's macho allure, Chelsea have an element of these in their fan base, people from Slough or Staines with no culture, identity or accent so they go looking for one.

The English Defence League (EDL) have adopted the Loyalist slogan "No Surrender" as their own. They seem to be emulating Loyalism as a means of dealing with militant Islam in England, and to provide themselves with an aura of strength.

philologos

philologos wrote: »

I honestly hope the term "hibernophobia" never comes into common usage in the English language.

It means fear of the Irish, not anti Irish racism.

Just because the word 'homophobia' is misused by coppers and journalists in the UK, doesn't mean we have to start a trend.

GalwayKiefer

A bit here in Australia. The locals can dish it out but can't take it. Nothing especially nasty though, you can tell if they're messing or building up to a fight/row. No skin off my nose really, you do your thing and I'll do mine.

To be honest I wouldn't pay any heed to the term unless situations were cropping up where Irish were being targeted by police in a country or refused employment etc etc. Ya know, proper discrimination.

Madam_X

Yamanoto wrote: »

Perhaps I'm doing GRMA a disservice.

You'll often find however, the 'self-loathing Irishman' argument is trotted out by some Republicans on Boards as a 'catch-all' term for those who don't subscribe to a standardised notion of how Irish folk should think, feel and react by default.

As for the broader issue, I also find myself baulking at the 'oh what will the [insert nationality here] think of us' mindset.

Yeh it's the latter phenomenon I mean. I know Micky Dolenz made the point that insecurity re one's nationality isn't just an Irish thing, which is true, but I do think it's particularly prevalent in Irish society. I don't agree with excessive pride in one's nationality either. It's one of those things that shouldn't be the source of so much analysis, positive or negative, IMO.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

The English Defence League (EDL) have adopted the Loyalist slogan "No Surrender" as their own. They seem to be emulating Loyalism as a means of dealing with militant Islam in England, and to provide themselves with an aura of strength.

Switching their hatred from the Jews to the Muslims must prove quite the challenge for the knuckleheads.

Rhinocharge

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

What is a Paddy??

A field where rice is grown.