Pro12: Munster vs Ospreys, Sat 2 March 6:30pm; Live on RTE/S4C

thomond2006

Munster:
F Jones; D Howlett, C Laulala, J Downey, D Hurley; R O’Gara, C Sheridan;
D Kilcoyne, D Varley, S Archer; I Nagle, B Holland; P Butler, T O’Donnell, J Coughlan.

Replacements: M Sherry, W du Preez, BJ Botha, D Foley, S Dougall, D Williams, I Keatley, I Dineen.

Ospreys:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Tom Habberfield
13 Jonathan Spratt
12 Ashley Beck
11 Tom Isaacs
10 Matthew Morgan
9 Kahn Fotuali'i

1 Duncan Jones
2 Scott Baldwin
3 Cai Griffiths
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Lloyd Peers
6 James King
7 Sam Lewis
8 Jonathan Thomas

REPLACEMENTS
16 Matthew Dwyer
17 Marc Thomas
18 Dmitri Arhip
19 Ian Gough
20 Dan Baker
21 Arthur Ellis/Sam Davies
22 Rhys Webb
23 Tom Grabham

A lot of really interesting selections here!

• Varley is ahead of Sherry.
• Sheridan starts ahead of Duncan Williams at scrumhalf. I would have thought Williams would stay ahead of him given that he is registered in the HEC ahead of Sheridan. In any case it's good to see Sheridan get a shot.
• CJ Stander doesn't make the 23, can something be read into that?
• Good to see Archer get another start, Ospreys are generally a strong scrummaging side so he'll get a good test. Kilcoyne back from Ireland duty as well.
• Once again Nagle starts, I'm expecting a contract extension to come soon.
• Johne Murphy gets cut completely but Hurley is retained on the wing.
• Sadly we're going to be a nursery once again for an out of sorts number 10.

Anyway this is a must win. Ospreys will have no fear of coming over to Limerick, they have an excellent recent record against Munster both home and away. We could do with denying them a LBP but tbh we'll take the win after our recent run of results.

If ROG doesn't improve his form we could be in trouble here.

durkadurka

It's an absolute must win isn't it.

Otherwise the rabo season is over for Munster.

Interesting to see what the ospreys turn up with.

ssaye

durkadurka wrote: »

It's an absolute must win isn't it.

Otherwise the rabo season is over for Munster.

Interesting to see what the ospreys turn up with.

If Tupuric and co play, can see an Ospreys win.

molloyjh

I'm surprised that Stander isn't in the 23 at all. Haven't seen too many Munster games this season, but he hasn't looked like a flop to me by any means. What's your take on him?

The ROG selection doesn't even require discussion at this stage. I do hope he can lift his form though. After the last few weeks and having an important game in Thomond against the reigning champions he desperately needs to. And if he can't tomorrow then when can he!?

Unfortunately I don't see too much there that would worry the Ospreys. How are the bookies calling it? No sign of the Ospreys team yet?

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

CJ Stander doesn't make the 23, can something be read into that?

Yes, I would read a lot into that. The Munster release makes it pretty clear he's dropped, not injured or rested. To be outside the 23 in the absence of POM and behind Sean Dougal is not where Munster would have expected Stander to be at this stage.

ScissorPaperRock

Is Hanrahan injured?

Tox56

Needs more JJ.. I mean, ROG has no future, no form.. what other country our size would get a Junior World Player of the year nominee and send him off to play AIL, Ulster gave Jackson a chance and he's now starting for Ireland..

Newtown90

Quick question about getting to the game lads... First time heading to Thomond, I've been to a lot at Musgrave so needed to try out what Thomond was like.

I seen on the Munster Website there are park and rides operating from a number of area's. The Woodlands Hotel in Adare would be the easiest for be at 5.30pm, but do you need to book these park and rides in advance?? Any idea of the price??

Thanks

jamiedav2011

Ospreys:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Tom Habberfield

13 Jonathan Spratt

12 Ashley Beck

11 Tom Isaacs

10 Matthew Morgan

9 Kahn Fotuali'i

1 Duncan Jones

2 Scott Baldwin

3 Cai Griffiths

4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)

5 Lloyd Peers

6 James King

7 Sam Lewis

8 Jonathan Thomas

REPLACEMENTS

16 Matthew Dwyer

17 Marc Thomas

18 Dmitri Arhip

19 Ian Gough

20 Dan Baker

21 Arthur Ellis/Sam Davies

22 Rhys Webb

23 Tom Grabham

Tomtom364

totallegend wrote: »

Yes, I would read a lot into that. The Munster release makes it pretty clear he's dropped, not injured or rested. To be outside the 23 in the absence of POM and behind Sean Dougal is not where Munster would have expected Stander to be at this stage.

I don't really think its that clear that he is dropped. I think rested is more likely because he has played very well whenever he has lined out.

molloyjh

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I don't really think its that clear that he is dropped. I think rested is more likely because he has played very well whenever he has lined out.

Rested? He's played 6 times for Munster, 3 of those from the bench. He's played 3 of those games in February, 2 of which were 20 mins off the bench. Can't see how he needs to be rested.

ormond lad

Glenviewjf wrote: »

Quick question about getting to the game lads... First time heading to Thomond, I've been to a lot at Musgrave so needed to try out what Thomond was like.

I seen on the Munster Website there are park and rides operating from a number of area's. The Woodlands Hotel in Adare would be the easiest for be at 5.30pm, but do you need to book these park and rides in advance?? Any idea of the price??

Thanks

Never used the P&R as never been a need but im fairly sure its a fiver and you will not need to book it in advance

Tomtom364

molloyjh wrote: »

Rested? He's played 6 times for Munster, 3 of those from the bench. He's played 3 of those games in February, 2 of which were 20 mins off the bench. Can't see how he needs to be rested.

I didn't say he needs to be rested. Just that he is. How much has dougal played lately, penny might just be giving dougall some gametime while still wanting butler to be getting good game experience.

CJ will be back on the bench for the quarter final I reckon (6. Pom 7. Tod. 8. Coughlan 20. CJ)

CIARAN_BOYLE

To be honest I'm not sure Penney knows his best backrow and he is trying different combinations with them a lot to see who is working and who isn't

molloyjh

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I didn't say he needs to be rested. Just that he is. How much has dougal played lately, penny might just be giving dougall some gametime while still wanting butler to be getting good game experience.

CJ will be back on the bench for the quarter final I reckon (6. Pom 7. Tod. 8. Coughlan 20. CJ)

This is a crucial game in terms of the league. Lose it and they are at best 9 points off the play-offs, 11 at worst. With Leinster at home and Glasgow away still to come it's going to be very difficult to make the play-offs if the lose this weekend. Plus they need to make amends for last week. In this situation Penney needs to be fielding as strong a squad as possible, not rotating in players for game time.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To be honest I'm not sure Penney knows his best backrow and he is trying different combinations with them a lot to see who is working and who isn't

Possibly, but he's had 12 games since Stander made his debut and 25 all season. How long does it take?

totallegend

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I didn't say he needs to be rested. Just that he is. How much has dougal played lately, penny might just be giving dougall some gametime while still wanting butler to be getting good game experience.

CJ will be back on the bench for the quarter final I reckon (6. Pom 7. Tod. 8. Coughlan 20. CJ)

Ok we're both speculating on why he's not there.

My take on it is that Dougal is not the first cousin of a HC level player. If Penney needs another game to find that out, Munster have the wrong coach.

Stander was signed as a first choice player, not as squad cover. He's played very little rugby and this is the last game for three weeks. Resting him makes no sense.

Edit: obviously if he's fit and not picked, then technically he's "rested", it's the reason for resting him I'd query.

totallegend

Anyhoo...

That's a good Ospreys team. Serious quality at 9-10-12.

Glad to see Beck back, I thought he might have been in with a shout of Wales selection for the 6n, really exciting player

irishbucsfan

Is this on S4C or BBCW?

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is this on S4C or BBCW?

S4C

[Jackass]

Massive game for both teams. The scrap for the bottom half of the play-offs will be brutal, and most of the top half of the table play eachother between now and the end of the regular season, so these are the types of games you must win, especially at home!

They're both reasonably strong teams, some interesting points pointed out by Thomond. I thought Varley would be ahead of Sherry anyway? Archer will certainly be given a test, Duncan Jones is an old warhorse who will have every trick up his sleave. Maybe not the power he once was, but it will be interesting to see how he does against him. Kilcoyne will be relieved not to be packing down opposite Adam Jones on the other side. Best tighthead in the league imo.

I've never seen Sheridan play but tbh I didn't really rate Williams any time I saw him. Seems very flakey.

That's potentially a very classy backline, but maybe Munster fans would have preferred to see Dineen and Keatley start ahead of Hurley and O'Gara? Also read (didn't see) that Johne Murphy was playing well of late.

Should be a good battle, it's the only game I'll get to see over the weekend, so looking forward to it.

I hope the occassion lives up to the importance.

freyners

Connacht did a number on their scrum a few times when we played them two weeks ago, Jones is not the force of old

CIARAN_BOYLE

[Jackass] wrote: »

They're both reasonably strong teams, some interesting points pointed out by Thomond. I thought Varley would be ahead of Sherry anyway?

Nah Sherry is ahead but there is quite a bit of rotation. and they swap around a bit. Much like Strauss/Cronin at leinster but neither of them are on a level with Strauss/Cronin, though sherry could be.

thomond2006

There's only 3 Rabo games, including this one, until the Quins match. I didn't watch the Treviso game in full (I value my health!) so I don't know how Stander played but this is a bad sign for him.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's only 3 Rabo games, including this one, until the Quins match. I didn't watch the Treviso game in full (I value my health!) so I don't know how Stander played but this is a bad sign for him.

He only came on in the 63rd min so he didn't have an awful lot of game time last week. He also came on for Coughlan so I dunno.

ed7890

CatFromHue wrote: »

He only came on in the 63rd min so he didn't have an awful lot of game time last week. He also came on for Coughlan so I dunno.

When he came on Butler went to 8, so he would have been playing in his regular position at 6.

accidentprone1

What do people think of Archer at the moment? Has he improved much in the scrum since the season started? The penalty try last week gives me hope!

Risteard

accidentprone1 wrote: »

What do people think of Archer at the moment? Has he improved much in the scrum since the season started? The penalty try last week gives me hope!

He's been much improved in his last few games. This will be a test though as he usually struggles against Ospreys.

CIARAN_BOYLE

accidentprone1 wrote: »

What do people think of Archer at the moment? Has he improved much in the scrum since the season started? The penalty try last week gives me hope!

I put a post in a recent thread saying that he has improved significantly from the start of the season

At the start of the season I would have rated him as Ireland's 11th choice TH prop. Now I would rate him as Ireland's 5th choice. I wouldn't be confident of him in big HEC or international matches but I don't think he will let anyone down in the Rabo.

thomond2006

Sadly results didn't go Munster's way tonight. Pressure on.

phog

ed7890 wrote: »

When he came on Butler went to 8, so he would have been playing in his regular position at 6.

And TOD was in the bin for some if this.

yimrsg

Stander would have to looked after fitness wise as his first competitive game of his season began in February last year and his preseason would have started a few weeks before that.

He's had a heck of a long season with very little down time; 919 minutes of Super Rugby, 623 in the Currie Cup and 297 for Munster so far = 1839 minutes or very nearly 23 full games.

Considering Munster will play at least 7 more games he'll need to be left out of match day squads from time to time.

thomond2006

Let's hope you're right, I think he's shown enough at times that he's a good player. No other backrower in the squad would have scored that 90m try.

Clear skies in Limerick at the moment, hopefully it will stay that way!

shuffol

Haven't been impressed with Stander bar the effort against Glasgow, his whole game seems to revolve round his carrying, he carries high looking to run over opposition players but lacks the size to be truly effective, he's young though and still adapting so hopefully for Munsters sake he comes good, will need to add more to his game though from what I've seen.

Archers had very impressive performances of late, one thing I've noticed though is that in a lot of the scrums he does well in he seems to drive straight up, I'm no expert on scrums so not sure if there's anything to be read into it, has anybody else noticed this?

thomond2006

Match Preview by Eamonn Keane: http://www.eamorugby.com/2013/03/time-to-heed-father-of-angst.html

danthefan

It's really disappointing that JJ can't make the 23. Whoever is making that call would want to have a look at themselves.

Must be very frustrating as a Munster fan to have ROG inflicted on your team by the national management.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

Match Preview by Eamonn Keane: http://www.eamorugby.com/2013/03/time-to-heed-father-of-angst.html

Munster have only lost two games in the Rabo on the trot.......unless Keane knows something about tonights game that the rest of us don't!

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

It's really disappointing that JJ can't make the 23. Whoever is making that call would want to have a look at themselves.

Must be very frustrating as a Munster fan to have ROG inflicted on your team by the national management.

It's terrible how the word inflicted can be justifiably used in this context.

As I said, nursery...

I go to Thomond Park later hoping that I will be proved wrong.

Tomtom364

danthefan wrote: »

It's really disappointing that JJ can't make the 23. Whoever is making that call would want to have a look at themselves.

Must be very frustrating as a Munster fan to have ROG inflicted on your team by the national management.

It is. Our back line will be unable to run today until Keatly gets on the pitch, and then it might be to late.

Very frustrating indeed. I'd love if ROG retired this summer and Munster made a move for Gareth Steenson. But ROG being ROG and Stevenson contracted to Exeter for next season, won't happen. Maybe next year...

Grimebox

I hope ROG puts in a MOTM performance for his sake and to turn the argument for "who starts at 10 next week" right on its head :pac:

durkadurka

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's terrible how the word inflicted can be justifiably used in this context.

As I said, nursery...

I go to Thomond Park later hoping that I will be proved wrong.

Is there any evidence that Penney would not pick him if he had a choice ?

jamiedav2011

durkadurka wrote: »

Is there any evidence that Penney would not pick him if he had a choice ?

Yes how is ROG 'being inflicted'?
Has Keatley been chosen for a big game ahead of ROG yet when both have been available?

ROG was on bench last week so no like Fitz, Reddan, Henderson etc would have been available for tonight, meddling or not from Kidders and co.

irishbucsfan

Penney still picks ROG in the Heineken Cup. I'm sure he'll start against Quins.

Clegg

RTE have just called ROG one of the icons of world rugby.

I can't agree with that at all.

Grimebox

Clegg wrote: »

RTE have just called ROG one of the icons of world rugby.

I can't agree with that at all.

"On 16 May 2010, O'Gara was awarded the ERC European Player Award, crediting him as the player who had made the greatest contribution to European Rugby during the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup."

Clegg

Grimebox wrote: »

"On 16 May 2010, O'Gara was awarded the ERC European Player Award, crediting him as the player who had made the greatest contribution to European Rugby during the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup."

Tremendous for him. But that doesn't make him an icon of world rugby.

A lot of people outside of Britain and Ireland don't rate him at all.

irishbucsfan

Not a good start. Fairly shocking drop by Coughlan.

Stuck listening to the welsh commentators on S4C... should be fun!

irishbucsfan

Clegg wrote: »

Tremendous for him. But that doesn't make him an icon of world rugby.

A lot of people outside of Britain and Ireland don't rate him at all.

How would you define the word "icon"?

durkadurka

He holds buckets of records in fairness

Taco Corp

Clegg wrote: »

Tremendous for him. But that doesn't make him an icon of world rugby.

A lot of people outside of Britain and Ireland don't rate him at all.

But.....but, he knows every inch of Thomand Park!! :P

awec

What did yet man say to Owens?

awec

The rte commentary is like a ROG propaganda fest.