Restricting numbers for racing

buffalo

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cycling-ireland-limits-field-sizes-in-races-riders-must-also-pre-enter-online/

As part of the new move, Cycling Ireland has said fields will be limited to 140 riders. In cases where organisers accept more than 140 entries, they must split up the racing and run a separate A4 race.

...the rule change is not immediate, but will likely be in operation within four to six weeks.

I for one welcome our new cycling overlords...

But srsly, I think this is a good thing.

Original announcement: http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Race-Field-Size-Ruling.aspx

seve65

No one day licenses either from April 2013.

morana

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cycling-ireland-limits-field-sizes-in-races-riders-must-also-pre-enter-online/



I for one welcome our new cycling overlords...

But srsly, I think this is a good thing.

Original announcement: http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Race-Field-Size-Ruling.aspx

There is a requirement for 28 days before it can be implemented after clubs are notified. Also note from next year online entry will be mandatory. We should be in a position to provide a system for clubs to use or they can use their own. We will reimburse the clubs before the races so they can pay for race stuff, prizes etc.

MichealD

Sensible decision.

Wonder why the 140 figure was chosen. Still seems a very big field for most Irish courses!

morana

MichealD wrote: »

Sensible decision.

Wonder why the 140 figure was chosen. Still seems a very big field for most Irish courses!

we looked at field sizes and taking the a4 out brought it below 140. Next year when online entry is in place the promoter will be able to cap the field.

rochefan

I think the pre-entry is a bad idea. In Munster after the ras there are often small bunches in A1/2 races. Would a promoter cancel a race on a Thursday just because he only has 15 or 20 entries?
Is pre-entries going to require pre-payment?
I simply don't see the need expect to keep an eye on A4 numbers

morana

rochefan wrote: »

I think the pre-entry is a bad idea. In Munster after the ras there are often small bunches in A1/2 races. Would a promoter cancel a race on a Thursday just because he only has 15 or 20 entries?
Is pre-entries going to require pre-payment?
I simply don't see the need expect to keep an eye on A4 numbers

yeah I agree to a certain extent usually there is a fall off but lets see.

Remember you have the power at the AGM

Beasty

One point of clarification.

Are club league races considered "Cycling Ireland sanctioned events"?

dave2pvd

I assume there will be pre-reg online and day-of in-person, yes? If day-of is done away with, I can guarantee it will hurt promoters.

To add incentive to pre-reg it should be normal price. Day-of, slightly more expensive. This will make for a more efficient sign-up process on race day.

Good to see CI taking on the pre-reg task.

morana

Beasty wrote: »

One point of clarification.

Are club league races considered "Cycling Ireland sanctioned events"?

They are but I am sure it will be only open races.

dave2pvd wrote: »

I assume there will be pre-reg online and day-of in-person, yes? If day-of is done away with, I can guarantee it will hurt promoters.

To add incentive to pre-reg it should be normal price. Day-of, slightly more expensive. This will make for a more efficient sign-up process on race day.

Good to see CI taking on the pre-reg task.

Great minds and all of that

wav1

I was involved in a meeting recently when these ideas were mooted.Capping the field size which includes A4s [because this is the only scenario where the fields will be capped as I understand it] is sensible on safety grounds.However I said at the meeting and now again that I would be opposed to the mandatoty pre entry system on a couple of points.
1 The theory is that EVERYBODY has access to computer/iphone.broadband/credit card etc as
they are the tools that riders will need to enter
for races in 2014 if it goes ahead.The facts are
that this will alienate some[maybe not many]but
some from the scene.
2 On some sunny Summer Sundays a rider just might look
out the window and decide hey its not a bad day.Think I might
just go and race today.This type of rider will probably be lost as
they wouldn't be so committed to pre enter but just might go if its
a nice day[social type of racing cyclist]
3 The current set entry fee at Leinster level is e10.When the new system
comes in to play I think the promoter will get about e9.10 or something like
that after the system providers commission etc has been deducted.Sounds
petty,but if you have an event where there are about 300 riders across all
categories there on the day thats a nett loss of nearly e300 to go in to the
race kitty.Plus you would lose the revenue from the riders who just cant come along at the last minute.Its getting tougher to promote good quality
events especially in the times we live in as regards sponsorship etc.You really could be talking about a promotion losing possibly close on e500
revenue to throw in to the pot.

morana

wav1 wrote: »

I was involved in a meeting recently when these ideas were mooted.Capping the field size which includes A4s [because this is the only scenario where the fields will be capped as I understand it] is sensible on safety grounds.However I said at the meeting and now again that I would be opposed to the mandatoty pre entry system on a couple of points.
1 The theory is that EVERYBODY has access to computer/iphone.broadband/credit card etc as
they are the tools that riders will need to enter
for races in 2014 if it goes ahead.The facts are
that this will alienate some[maybe not many]but
some from the scene.
2 On some sunny Summer Sundays a rider just might look
out the window and decide hey its not a bad day.Think I might
just go and race today.This type of rider will probably be lost as
they wouldn't be so committed to pre enter but just might go if its
a nice day[social type of racing cyclist]
3 The current set entry fee at Leinster level is e10.When the new system
comes in to play I think the promoter will get about e9.10 or something like
that after the system providers commission etc has been deducted.Sounds
petty,but if you have an event where there are about 300 riders across all
categories there on the day thats a nett loss of nearly e300 to go in to the
race kitty.Plus you would lose the revenue from the riders who just cant come along at the last minute.Its getting tougher to promote good quality
events especially in the times we live in as regards sponsorship etc.You really could be talking about a promotion losing possibly close on e500
revenue to throw in to the pot.

I agree we have talked about these issues and rather than introduce it on 1stApril we decided to consult with the various stakeholdersand try work around these issues. Yourself aside the meetings we usually arrange are very poorly attended so hopefully this will get people out.

couerdelion

wav1 wrote: »

I was involved in a meeting recently when these ideas were mooted.Capping the field size which includes A4s [because this is the only scenario where the fields will be capped as I understand it] is sensible on safety grounds.However I said at the meeting and now again that I would be opposed to the mandatoty pre entry system on a couple of points.
1 The theory is that EVERYBODY has access to computer/iphone.broadband/credit card etc as
they are the tools that riders will need to enter
for races in 2014 if it goes ahead.The facts are
that this will alienate some[maybe not many]but
some from the scene.
2 On some sunny Summer Sundays a rider just might look
out the window and decide hey its not a bad day.Think I might
just go and race today.This type of rider will probably be lost as
they wouldn't be so committed to pre enter but just might go if its
a nice day[social type of racing cyclist]
3 The current set entry fee at Leinster level is e10.When the new system
comes in to play I think the promoter will get about e9.10 or something like
that after the system providers commission etc has been deducted.Sounds
petty,but if you have an event where there are about 300 riders across all
categories there on the day thats a nett loss of nearly e300 to go in to the
race kitty.Plus you would lose the revenue from the riders who just cant come along at the last minute.Its getting tougher to promote good quality
events especially in the times we live in as regards sponsorship etc.You really could be talking about a promotion losing possibly close on e500
revenue to throw in to the pot.

If it's preentry and prepay you wouldn't lose any money if racers didn't turn up. I'd expect race fees to be raised to €11 (€10 + €1 admin charge) to take into account commision.

On the plus side it allows you to plan your season in advance, choose and enter your races and plan your training towards the ones you want to do and not have to avoid your favourite races because you know the field will be too big.

wav1

Again while I agree in principle its a good idea to cap the fields where there are A4s.The notion is that its going to be rolled out on April 1st.
Bet theres not one case after that date when the rule will have to apply.
Its March that all that madness happens.Graph will show a downward slope
after April 1st especially with the one days gone[and Im delighted their gone
as well]

BryanL

Both moves have been done in Britain and road racing is dying on it's feet there.
Posting off cheques weeks before a race only to make a reserves list or have your cheque returned because even the reserve list is full???
Been there and done it and it's no fun. Driving to a race on a Sunday to see if you get in through the reserves? but don't. It's no fun I can tell you.
I have always boasted to British riders how easy it is to race in Ireland and have choices of races most weekends.

Why make it harder for people to race? What the benefit to riders from these 2 moves, that separate A4 races wouldn't make???

dave2pvd

Online pre-reg has been in use in the US for years. It's not as hard as some are making it out to be.

It makes for a much better sign-on process on the day of a race, benefiting everyone. It also allows the promoter to determine whether or not plans need to change to accommodate splitting the field. There should be no reserves list. The fields have either reached maximums or they have not.

It's great to see such participation in Irish road racing. Kudos to CI for trying to keep on top it all!

Cayo

No on here and new to bike racing, just wondering:

1. Why the nees to move to online registration
2. How far in advance will registration be opened up
3. Does the 140 limit take into account the fact that not everyone who registers will actually show up

Only asking as I did my first race last weekend and really liked the fact that I could just turn up on the day, pay my money and race.

BryanL

Here is how the system doesn't work in England.
Want to race this weekend? Nope. Next month? Nope
Below are all the main road races. (you can get into league races or closed circuit races but not on the road for E1,2,)

2 Mar 13 52nd Eddie Soens Memorial Cycle Race Merseyside Road Entries closed

3 Mar 13 41st Severn Bridge Road RaceSouth Gloucestershire Road Entries closed

10 Mar 13 31st Jock Wadley Memorial Road Race Essex Road Entries closed

17 Mar 13 Peter Young Memorial Spring Road Race SurreyRoad Entries closed

24 Mar 13 Wally Gimber Trophy Kent Road Entries closed

boege

I think this development is welcome from a rider safety perspective but it needs to be carefully monitored.

There is a danger that the more organised clubs will have their riders entered early and the more popular events become closed to the smaller clubs. This has already happened with the Gorey 3-day.

I am not sure if there is an optimum answer here but the compulsory online application will hit the events later in the year where turnout is generally lower. As some have said a good day can draw a crowd that might not otherwise turn up if a planned approach is required.

couerdelion

BryanL wrote: »

Want to race this weekend? Nope. Next month? Nope

If road racing is "dying on its arse" in the UK why are all the races full?

If you're an organiser wouldn't you want an idea of how many people are going to come along and perhaps sell out in advance rather than leave it to chance with the weather, find it hammering down and get a crap turn out?
With online registration they get the same income and do the same amount of work rregardless of the weather.

From an athletics\triathlon p.o.v. we have to pre-register for nearly every event and it seems to work fine. Some you might have a small window to apply for but you make sure you get entered.

The Crunch

BryanL wrote: »

Here is how the system doesn't work in England.
Want to race this weekend? Nope. Next month? Nope
Below are all the main road races. (you can get into league races or closed circuit races but not on the road for E1,2,)

2 Mar 13 52nd Eddie Soens Memorial Cycle Race Merseyside Road Entries closed

3 Mar 13 41st Severn Bridge Road RaceSouth Gloucestershire Road Entries closed

10 Mar 13 31st Jock Wadley Memorial Road Race Essex Road Entries closed

17 Mar 13 Peter Young Memorial Spring Road Race SurreyRoad Entries closed

24 Mar 13 Wally Gimber Trophy Kent Road Entries closed

Well put.
Be careful what you wish for, lads.

I've lived and raced in England and, while the average club run is really enjoyable just like here, the racing is, quite frankly, a bit of a pain in the arse.

There's nothing spontaneous about it. You have to enter months in advance, you'd be lucky to get a road race a fortnight and you'll use a tank of fuel to get to every one. It's all small fields, early morning starts (especially for the Freds) and a massive sense of paranoia about what the world at large thinks.
The volunteers there are saints and the competitors are masochists.

There's no way you can race like you do here where you could rock up to Summerhill on Saturday and, if the legs still feel good aftwards, decide to do Navan on Sunday as well.

I know when you start out racing you want everything to be written down and properly structured so you can make sense of it but you soon get the hang of the calendar, the clubs and the routes and the freedom to select your races to suit ever altering circumstances.

Online entry and restricted fields looks good on paper but, believe me, it's not worth the convenience of a speeded up sign on process. Besides, chatting in the sign-on queue is often the best part of the day.

I also like the thrill and pageantry of big colourful bunches whizzing through the countryside. It feels a lot more like playing at Tour de France than thrashing round and round Corkagh Park 'till we get dizzy.

Not that I'm slagging Corkagh Park. It's a wonderful, fabulously well designed facility but it is, most emphatically, not road racing.

Thin end of the wedge...

Leroy42

Cycling popularity is booming at the moment, a nice change from a years ago. The answer to this increase in popularity is that CI and clubs are going to restrict the people that want to take part?

I can see the merits of the pre-reg system, and I certainly agree than field size per race should be limited, but it certainly seems to be based on what it can gain the clubs rather than the participants.

In reality, what will happen is that the people to pre-reg first are those that target the races, have certain races as targets. Invariably this will be those already in the sport or focused on racing. It certainly will not be attractive to the newer A4's and those of thinking of getting into the sport to have to pre-reg for a race they may or may actually take part in. For people totally focused on racing rather than the more casual, this won't cause a problem, but are new A4's going to prepay for an event they may not be able to get to. This will have the greatest impact on the lower grades, the very grades that growth in the sport comes from.

Second point, now I have to pay upfront for my yearly licence (as no more one day) and I have to also pay upfront for the races. Will I be able to get a refund if I don't take part. Will this be a full refund or less an 'admin' fee? I don't have an issue with on-line reg as such, many sportives etc already do this, but apart from those ones I deem as really important (to me!) I invariably leave the reg until as late as possible as money is tight. If work, family etc get in the way I can then just drop out. If fields are pre-reg'ed the more casual A4/A3 come end up with no races at all!

Third point, it was mentioend above that the system would entail an admin fee. It would appear that both the clubs and CI have more than enough funds if they are willing to forego almost €1 per entry due to commission. Would this no be better kept within the sport? If, as is more likely, the cost increases from €10 to €11 for entry, the clubs have just passed on a 10% increase in costs in the middle of a recession.

If there is such an increase in numbers, why not have additional races. Why is A4 thrown into a handicap race which will inevitably end with the A1's catching and dropping most of them, certainly the chance of an A4 or A3 actually crossing the line in 1st place, rather than 1st in their category is very slim, so why not operate a separate race(s). If numbers are so large (demand) increase the cost to €15 to pay for additional admin, ambulance etc, at least that way the money is being spent to further the sport.

CI remit is to advocate cycling across Ireland, I cannot see how limiting the numbers who can partake in events is achieving that. Of course you will continue to sell out to A1's and A2's, but they are already in the sport.

We can see from the massive increase in uptake in sportives that there is a sizeable market out there not currently being catered for by the current racing setup, and the answer to that was to limit numbers!!!

If cycling in Ireland was oversubscribed I could see the merit, but last I heard cycling was still very much a minority sport in this country and instead of focusing on growing the sport the clubs and CI have decided to close the doors!

Edit: I am in no way attempting to say that CI or the clubs are interested in reducing racing merely pointing out that this is not looking to expand merely to maintain the current levels

not sane

I feel that this will reduce numbers racing in open races. I feel racing will suffer in the lower ranks as mostly the lads do it for the craic, look at the age profile of the average A3 correct me if I'm wrong 30+ if not more. I feel it will ruin the spontaneity of just turning up for a race. Anyway I know myself that I will be more picky about which races I do.

And anyway regarding the big numbers racing at the moment, this has always been the case at the start of the year, and come later in the season numbers do reduce a lot.

Sure we will see how it works out, if dosen't work sure can't CI revert to the way it was. I'm sure its not set in stone.

buffalo

Why do I always end up bowing to the experience and superior knowledge of The Crunch?

Diarmuid

Leroy42 wrote: »

It would appear that both the clubs and CI have more than enough funds if they are willing to forego almost €1 per entry due to commission. Would this no be better kept within the sport? If, as is more likely, the cost increases from €10 to €11 for entry, the clubs have just passed on a 10% increase in costs in the middle of a recession.

If there is such an increase in numbers, why not have additional races.

I would share you reservations about the mandatory aspect of the pre-reg, TheCrunch has covered what would mostly concern me.

However to take up two points here. Clubs lose substantial amounts of money on races already. Taking a further 10% reduction would make it even more financially taxing on clubs to run races.

Secondly I'm all for additional races. However that's the responsibility of clubs and ultimately riders. If you want more races, lead by example and organise with your club to put on a (or another) race.

slowmoving

Hi all,

I'm also relatively new to the scene and hoping to give the racing a proper bash this year. For me, pre-registration will not work. I work a job where my days off chop and change from one week to the next (I know that I am not the only one) and the only way I can make races is to see what ones happen to be on on my day off (maximum one week beforehand). There is no way that I could pre-register weeks in advance and guarantee I'd make it on the day. This will make me choose another sport to compete at if it comes in.

niceonetom

The Crunch wrote: »

You have to enter months in advance, you'd be lucky to get a road race a fortnight and you'll use a tank of fuel to get to every one.

That's making a case for having more races, not against pre-registration. And the fuel thing, well that's an argument against geography which is, I think, outside of CI's control.

The Crunch wrote: »

It's all small fields, early morning starts (especially for the Freds) and a massive sense of paranoia about what the world at large thinks.
The volunteers there are saints and the competitors are masochists.

Fair points, but again, nothing to do with pre-registration. There is a creeping sycophancy towards 'the authorities' or 'the locals' among some involved in racing and, we should make sure that doesn't get out of control and lead to marginalising to sport too much. But that has nothing to do with the issue here.

As for the spontaneity argument, I see that as a luxury that the sport has maybe outgrown. There are benefits for both racers and organisers in knowing ahead of time roughly how many will be there and what needs to be laid on the deal with that. There's a subtle ludism, based in nostalgia I think, to some of the old guard who can't understand why newcomers might want to, say, see a map of the course before turning up, know race distances or whether a race will be a handicap or CP etc., or who might not know who to call about some issue with entry. There's still a lot of who-you-know in the cycling world and what's familiar and comforting to those who've been on the scene for years seems opaque, closed, and even unfriendly to those (significant numbers) who've only come into cycling later in life.

You'll just have to do your socialising in the carpark instead of the queue.

The Crunch wrote: »

I also like the thrill and pageantry of big colourful bunches whizzing through the countryside. It feels a lot more like playing at Tour de France than thrashing round and round Corkagh Park 'till we get dizzy.

Not that I'm slagging Corkagh Park. It's a wonderful, fabulously well designed facility but it is, most emphatically, not road racing.

Thin end of the wedge...

I think you're conflating totally different issues there to strengthen your case - limiting road races to 140 if there are A4s among them has nothing to do with Corkagh park. To imply that it either has to be the free-for-all it is now, or we'll all be on the hamster-wheel of Corkagh is disingenuous. We're using that for league racing and then only because we don't want to have everyone out marshalling every other race. It's being used, voluntarily, to lighten the logistical headache of organising a race on a Thursday evening, not because CI says so. The numbers issue that lead up to that was interclub politics and to imply that open road racing in general could head that way if we allow pre-registration is pure alarmism. Things just have to adapt as the sport grows.

Having said that, I'd like to know how pre-registration could work without pre-payment. What's to stop blanket booking and sure then just decode on the morning if you actually want to race? If CI can't get the payment system in place by the time the rule comes in it could get messy.

C3PO

Diarmuid wrote: »

Clubs lose substantial amounts of money on races already. Taking a further 10% reduction would make it even more financially taxing on clubs to run races.

So what is the incentive for clubs to run races? In the mountain bike scene running races would be regarded as one of the main revenue generating activities of the club - a properly managed/run race will make the club money! Having said that entry fees are usually €20-€25 but people rarely complain about this! In fact some events (run over 2 days) will have entry fees of €50!

On line pre-reg has been the norm in mountain biking for the last couple of years with I think fairly mixed reviews! The main pros/cons have been covered in the posts above!

wav1

An interesting fact.While race promoters sometimes get slated[sometimes rightly] for putting on poor races,just think about this for a minute.Its all relevant as I've never been involved in a promotion that shows a profit.Itsabout putting on a good and safe show FOR THE RIDERS.Dont p...s off any more potential organisers as only abot 21% of clubs in the Leinster area last year promoted an open event.Thats 79% who dont do anything on that front.Also some of the 21% are responsible for multiple promotions during the season,so the financial end of all of this is very relevant to them.Dont bite off the hand that feeds you.

morana

Leroy42 wrote: »

Cycling popularity is booming at the moment, a nice change from a years ago. The answer to this increase in popularity is that CI and clubs are going to restrict the people that want to take part?

do you really believe this?

niceonetom

Clubs have to be able to at least break even on races, and ideally profit from them. And turnouts, at least to early season race have never been better. Does the solution to this seem obvious to anyone else?

I fully expect there to be cries of horror at the idea that the poor beleaguered Sunday racer should have to pay more than a tenner, but those cries would be so much more plausible if I didn't see so many people on 5k worth of bike.

Leroy42

morana wrote: »

do you really believe this?

Do I really believe what? That popularity of cycling is up? Yes I do, sportives, BTW scheme etc would point to that.

That CI and clubs want to limit numbers? The new system will limit numbers to 140, not sure how else to interpret that. While the idea might be to be better organised, the result will be a cut off in numbers, isn't that the point.

Niceonetom is right, clubs should make money on races, at the very least break even. If that means an increase in costs then I am not against that, but at least that money is going back into the sport, not on admin fees for a website.

CI & the clubs should be using this increase in popularity to drive an increase in the overall numbers. Put on more races, cater for a changing customer base. The old days of just turning up without knowing the route, the distance (trying to hear the guy at the start telling how many laps etc, should be gone and if that is part of pre-reg than I am all for it. With FB, mapmyride etc all this information can be out there well in advance.

But it seems pre-reg is going to used to cap the field size, rather than use the increase in numbers to drive additional races. If 200 sign up to race, why not separate the races per category rather than turn 60 people away?

cunavalos

wav1 wrote: »

An interesting fact.While race promoters sometimes get slated[sometimes rightly] for putting on poor races,just think about this for a minute.Its all relevant as I've never been involved in a promotion that shows a profit.Itsabout putting on a good and safe show FOR THE RIDERS.Dont p...s off any more potential organisers as only abot 21% of clubs in the Leinster area last year promoted an open event.Thats 79% who dont do anything on that front.Also some of the 21% are responsible for multiple promotions during the season,so the financial end of all of this is very relevant to them.Dont bite off the hand that feeds you.

Personally i think this is the key point, the problem is that there are too many riders for the events on the calender so the two obvious solutions are to put more events on the calendar or reduce the number of riders.

It is not just confined to leinster there are clubs throughout the country who will have riders out every weekend competing in open races and make no meaningful effort to put on a race of their own. If these clubs pooled resources with other clubs to put on a few more races throughout the year it would improve the situation no end.
I know the promotion of events is not an easy undertaking (in any sport) but I feel any club entering riders in open races should be obliged to promote or assist in promoting open events.

buffalo

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do I really believe what? That popularity of cycling is up? Yes I do, sportives, BTW scheme etc would point to that.

That CI and clubs want to limit numbers? The new system will limit numbers to 140, not sure how else to interpret that. While the idea might be to be better organised, the result will be a cut off in numbers, isn't that the point.

I think morana's point is that the CI aren't doing this to limit numbers for the sake of it, like some crazed beast that says "races are getting popular... DESTROY!!" (which is the impression your post gives to me), they're trying to look at ways to make races safer, and limiting numbers is one way of helping to achieve that.

Leroy42

OK, if that is the impression the post gave then I apologise, (and edited), of course I don't believe that.

What I do believe is that the knock on effects (in a few years) has not been taken into account. Instead of looking at this as an opportunity to expand races the first response is to limit, and thus stiffel, future potential riders from joining. It will be the lower grades effected more on this, which has been mentioned in a few posts, and these are the future of the sport.

ericzeking

Leroy42 wrote: »

But it seems pre-reg is going to used to cap the field size, rather than use the increase in numbers to drive additional races. If 200 sign up to race, why not separate the races per category rather than turn 60 people away?

If I'm right and maybe the CI guys can correct me if I'm wrong, I think you are missing the point Leroy, with respect, the cap is only applicable if all grades are to race together ie A1-A4, where the entry exceeds 140 a separate A4 race should be run. So in reality you could have 140 A1-A3 and then a further 100 A4s in their own race, so you have 250 racers catered for with no one turned away.

Without the new system you'd have 240 racers in the one race which doesn't even happen at pro level, with closed roads and all the logistical muscle those promoters have.

I'm all for online pre-reg, move with the times and all that and it will certainly aid with logistics. My guess is that there would still be plenty races that will have space available on the day and there will surely be a way of facilitating that.

chakattack

To echo what the Crunch has said very well.

I's hard to decide weeks or months in advance when you can race, some weekends you might feel good and race Saturday and Sunday and other times you might be destroyed after Saturday and have no intention of racing Sunday.

Then there's midweek racing the Summer...very hard to know if you'll be out of work in time etc. to get to Enfield, Mondello or Batterstown. I imagine those races would suffer from pre-reg.

I welcome field size capping but not pre-registration.

Make one change at a time...

Leroy42

ericzeking - Yes I fully understand that but to date the reason many clubs have given for not running separate races for A4 is that logistically it is too difficult. I don't see that suddenly changing and so the field will be limited (I agree with a limit on the field size btw just worried that this will lead to reduced racing numbers in total rather than more races).

ROK ON

As usual Toms response is the most considered.

The issue if there is one stems from success and popularity.

The season needs more races and at a price point that allows organisers or would be organisers to take a bath on putting on a race.

The top races in the country are pre entry, practically all triathlons are Lee entry, many sportives are pre entry - has anyone considered whether it has badly hindered these events?

If limits are imposed for whatever reason, then is it worse to have pre entry or to arrive at an event and find there are already too many people there.

Finally i think that all most accept that the cost of putting on any event on the public roads is not cheap - the solution is to eliminate prizes or raise fees or a bit of both.

We have an awful tendency in this country to see the bad in everything rather than look for the win win.

Hungrycol

If the aim is to limit numbers for saftey then can the organisers just not take any more entries once they've reached the limit on the monring of the race? You wanna race get there early and sign on.

PeadarCo

I think preregistration would be a good idea in conjunction with more races particularly in the Leinster area where there is the numbers. It would hopefully encourage more clubs to put on more races on the same day as preregistration would hopefully ensure both events get a decent number of people as once one is book up there is another race people can do.

Overall good idea providing measures are put in place that ensures it doesn't restrict the numbers which means more races. And as people have already pointed out that means more clubs stepping up to the plate.

chakattack

ROK ON wrote: »

We have an awful tendency in this country to see the bad in everything rather than look for the win win.

Apart from dangerously big bunches at times which capping will fix, the setup in Ireland is pretty sweet compared to other countries. Pre-registration is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist apart from a few early season races.

Chips Lovell

Does anyone know if online registration will be mandatory or is it an additional alternative to signing on on the day?

Like The Crunch said, I'd hate to see racing in Ireland go the same way as the UK.

I've no problem with capping numbers for safety reasons, and 140 seems like a reasonable number.

But if we've a problem with numbers, the number one solution to it should be more races. If we want the sport to keep growing, we can't be turning people away.

I like the idea of a carrot and stick approach for clubs. The carrot could be letting them make money from promoting races. The stick could be not issuing open racing licences to clubs who don't hold at least one race every year.

Hmmzis

I might be missing something but from how I interpreted the field size rule it wouldn't limit the field as such. Instead if it is a handicap race and more than 140 people show up then split out the A4 in to a separate race, still on the same route with the same marshals and everything. It only adds a bit of hassle to sort out the placings at the end maybe. Since A4s can't be given money as a prize then the added cost would be minimal to none and would make the A4s happier since they would be competing against their own level riders instead of just trying to hang on for dear life in the last 10k of a handicap where the pros and expros shoot the pace through the roof.

I think also the A1/2/3 riders would appreciate not having to navigate past a 100 strong bunch of A4s that are trying to jump wheels and creating a hazardous environment by doing so.

Lusk Doyle

Hmmzis wrote: »

I might be missing something but from how I interpreted the field size rule it wouldn't limit the field as such. Instead if it is a handicap race and more than 140 people show up then split out the A4 in to a separate race, still on the same route with the same marshals and everything. It only adds a bit of hassle to sort out the placings at the end maybe. Since A4s can't be given money as a prize then the added cost would be minimal to none and would make the A4s happier since they would be competing against their own level riders instead of just trying to hang on for dear life in the last 10k of a handicap where the pros and expros shoot the pace through the roof.

I think also the A1/2/3 tiders would appreciate not having to navigate past a 100 strong bunch of A4s that are trying to jump wheels and creating a hazardous environment by doing so.

No to mention the ones who stand up just before the finish line and cause their bike to shoot backwards, eh...? :pac:

morana

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Does anyone know if online registration will be mandatory or is it an additional alternative to signing on on the day?

I guess there will be on the day registration as well but for a limited number of places.

Hmmzis

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

No to mention the ones who stand up just before the finish line and cause their bike to shoot backwards, eh...? :pac:

Actually, yes, that would be a prime example of a mistake a rookie A4 (like myself) can make and a higher category rider might not expect.

fixie fox

ericzeking wrote: »

Without the new system you'd have 240 racers in the one race which doesn't even happen at pro level,

I can see the point in it but it's a blunt instrument.

For example, it will destroy the Lacey Cup as it was. That race had 225 riders, but because of the nature of the race there were never more than 120 in any given bunch. That was the A4 start bunch and only for a short while as it is always breaks up after a big climb after only 15k and bunches get much smaller then.

As races go it is one of the safer ones, but it will be one of the main loosers. I'm far more apprehensive going in to some events that might have only 40 or 50 in them.

However, as I said, I can see the point in it.

fixie fox

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

No to mention the ones who stand up just before the finish line and cause their bike to shoot backwards, eh...? :pac:

Ya, they are dangerous all right, especially for the fellas sprinting for 20th place in the bunch.

Lusk Doyle

fixie fox wrote: »

Ya, they are dangerous all right, especially for the fellas sprinting for 20th place in the bunch.

Finished 21st then, did you?

petethedrummer

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Like The Crunch said, I'd hate to see racing in Ireland go the same way as the UK.

UK racing is dead on its ar5e because of complaints from residents and the cops clamping down on racing in response. This was the case before the internet was invented.