AAI to drop Interclubs

thirstywork2

After last weekend most people would say the standard was poor all round.I am not trying to take away from those that took medals but as someone else pointed out to me not one of the men's team from Euros competed which is crazy.Maybe a national medal is not enough for some athletes to chase or because no Irish vest is up for grabs !!!

I think it is pointless scrapping the interclubs,why don't the AAI do more to promote it ???
Mens junior race 3 or 4 counties and girls juniors only 2 or 3 counties(two lazy to check)
AAI now think just cause we have a top class track everything else can be brushed under the carpet.
I know of a top class GB runner looking to get the time for Euro indoors but was refused to line up in our nationals while Irish athletes like Scullion,Derval and many more competed in their national championships.

Link to John Foleys(below) piece in the Indo.I think It would be a shame to scrap the Nationals.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/getting-things-back-on-track-29090645.html

ger664

Hard Worker wrote: »

Have a look at the results from the National Cross Country last Sunday. Races started at 1pm. Where were all the club athletes from Munster and Connaught?
The early start is not what will keep them away.

In the Juvenile section Clare took two wins and a second from four races.

There was 3 10K road races in Munster as well on Sunday so maybe not granting clubs permits or holding championships on the same day as club races that are well established might help.

RacoonQueen

Hard Worker wrote: »

Have a look at the results from the National Cross Country last Sunday. Races started at 1pm. Where were all the club athletes from Munster and Connaught?
The early start is not what will keep them away.

What do you think did keep them away then?

Do Athletics Ireland need to do more to promote Championship races?

budapest2012

I think the biggest losers last weekend were Tullamore Harriers who put a lot of hard work in preparing a course and facillities worthy of a National Cross Country only to be let down by a lack of support from both Athletes and supporters alike.

ger664

Running the inter clubs cross country at the back end of February is not ideal. Move it back to before Christmas.

brutes1

RacoonQueen wrote: »

What do you think did keep them away then?

Do Athletics Ireland need to do more to promote Championship races?

This could probably do with a thread of its own!

I am blue in the face trying to get teams out for cross country,for one of the larger clubs about in the West and even have similar problem national road events. We had a team last Sunday but was really a C team...
Plenty of reasons why, people dont like the terrain, fear of getting wiped out by the standard, reluctance among athletes themselves in part is a factor, and some clubs probably not as well organised as Dublin/Cork/Donegal clubs in terms of coaches pushing athletes to target these races, and perhaps even club spirit. ...??

The course and set up last week in Tullamore was superb , thoroughly enjoyable race , and it was a great event that would have been even better with double the numbers and more top lads and clubs.

Whats to be done one wonders ..

ger664

Maybe try not to derail this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056890886

brutes1

budapest2012 wrote: »

I think the biggest losers last weekend were Tullamore Harriers who put a lot of hard work in preparing a course and facillities worthy of a National Cross Country only to be let down by a lack of support from both Athletes and supporters alike.

Yes, agreed superb organisation, like racing on a grass track too.

Cross country after Xmas tends to be a pleasure compared to beforehand, would be a damn shame to drop this although I see peoples point - other focuses like spring marathons and track tends to intervene and US college events.
But Its a crowded calendar Oct- Dec with local provincial and national all in two months as is.

With four cross country races at national level thats not a lot, Novice gets huge numbers and works well, Intercounties suits euros . Perhaps the Intermediate could be merged with a senior race or Novice if need be.


How many road races were on the weekend that took people away, 5/6 at least.
Clubs themselves and AAI need to push interclubs or be incentivised to do so eg 3 to score on teams at lower grades /free entry at these grades if its to resurrect itself to decent numbers

WIth all the success of the Womens team and U23s,and some prospects at World level it would be a shame to ditch senior level competition . We should be aiming to compete at World cross team wise at least and medal across all Euro categories .
Interclubs could and should be a qualifier for world cross when on .

Perhaps a cross country mission is needed in light of marathon mission success although its the poor relation versus the track,olympics and world, but may suit those just off that level or on the way up,its a good stepping stone.

ecoli

brutes1 wrote: »

Cross country after Xmas tends to be a pleasure compared to beforehand, would be a damn shame to drop this although I see peoples point - other focuses like spring marathons and track tends to intervene and US college events.
But Its a crowded calendar Oct- Dec with local provincial and national all in two months as is.

I think that this is an interesting point if you look a the correlation between XC running and marathon running

• Irelands womens team that won gold had 3 marathon runners on it
• Womens favourite for world XC (Dibaba) is running this and is debuting in London
• Many of the Ethiopian mens team is comprised of Marathon runners
• Shalane Flanagan (Bronze medal in world XC few years back) is a regular on the US team and is also a marathon runner

You would think these people would be more inclined to fit this race in as its fits in with training for marathons to an extent

runjb

I would have to agree with John Foley on this one. I think the appetite for the Inter-clubs has diminished considerably. This year is even to coincide with the World XC Championships and it made no difference. I would prefer it moved to pre-Christmas by way of holding it alongside the Novice Championship or else just merge it with the inter-counties. IMO nothing was really gained by running that race last weekend.

Another option might be starting the CC racing season a week or two earlier in Autumn wouldn't hurt and therefore might free up another weekend in Nov/Dec.

thirstywork2

runjb wrote: »

I would have to agree with John Foley on this one. I think the appetite for the Inter-clubs has diminished considerably. This year is even to coincide with the World XC Championships and it made no difference. I would prefer it moved to pre-Christmas by way of holding it alongside the Novice Championship or else just merge it with the inter-counties. IMO nothing was really gained by running that race last weekend.

Another option might be starting the CC racing season a week or two earlier in Autumn wouldn't hurt and therefore might free up another weekend in Nov/Dec.

Let the athletes vote !!!

runjb

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Let the athletes vote !!!

I think many of them have going by the quality of the fields last weekend!

thirstywork2

runjb wrote: »

I think many of them have going by the quality of the fields last weekend!

Fair point but alot decided to run indoors this year.AAI should introduce some incentive for the best athletes to compete.If we are not going to send a team to world cross then it devalues the championship.

brutes1

runjb wrote: »

I think many of them have going by the quality of the fields last weekend!

Nothing wrong with the quality of the womens field last Sunday. And they are the ones going to World cross.

Time for the men to follow suit.

Double national marathon champ and 2.15 marathoner the interclub champion nothing wrong with that.

PVincent

is the system all wrong...ie novice/inter/senior. Is it not the case that clubs and runners are loathe to run their better athletes at senior in case they get placed /medals and thus miss out on winning medals at novice/inter . Take the novices this year . The top 'god knows how many' are all top top runners , quality guys who have taken part in Senior champs etc ...The winner Dermot McD has run in senior track finals. ( no offense to him , i know him well) but the system surely does not promote these guys to run at the top level. The novice cc is an incredibly high standard race . The system also is bizarre in that it penalises athletes as well. You could finish well well down the field in the novices/inter but be part of a medalling team because your club has some top runners and because of that you are suddenly regarded as senior even tho you dont get in the top 50 in novice.
So interested to see others views who are around the system a bit longer.

Also I do think there is a market for a Big Big CC ( like the one in the Uk) to be held at say a racecourse or the Curragh and open it to everyone...to promote Cross Country races

myflipflops

It is worth noting that on the same weekend as the Irish interclubs, the English men's national cross country had 1100 finishers in very tough, muddy conditions.

Even more relevant to the numbers at interclubs (98 men finishers), the Scottish men's national cross had over 500 runners including 30 full teams finish. There is no extra incentive for athletes to run Scottish nationals that I know of. No prize money and no world cross places. How do they still get the numbers?

omicron

Can anyone actually explain how the XC divisions work? At what point can you not run novice/inter anymore, and when can you move up to inter/novice? And where does novice B come into it?!

YFlyer

Is there a Novice B now?

YFlyer

myflipflops wrote: »

There is no extra incentive for athletes to run this race that I know of. No prize money and no world cross places.

Should there be prize money for Championship Events?

myflipflops

YFlyer wrote: »

Should there be prize money for Championship Events?

Not necessarily.

That wasn't my point though. I was saying that there is no extra incentive (like prize money) for athletes to run Scottish National cross but they still get 500+ finishers while we had 98. What are they doing to get the numbers?

YFlyer

Ah sorry. I thought you were referring to the Irish Nationals.

brutes1

omicron wrote: »

Can anyone actually explain how the XC divisions work? At what point can you not run novice/inter anymore, and when can you move up to inter/novice? And where does novice B come into it?!

Novice is bottom rung, then inter and seniors
Basically medalling top three in novice eliminates you from that, doing same in inter takes you out of both novice and inter
Winning the team in novice or inter rules the same applies
Other criteria also rule you out eg if you medal at Senior level in XC road or track or make an Irish team you are out of Novice and Inter
Ages criteria over 19 Novice, over 20 inters, not sure if that is strictly applied judging by some fields...

Link here to rules, Pages 27 -30
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/competition-book-may-2012-1.pdf

Novice B?? Think thats juveniles only

RayCun

is there a need for three rungs? Cutting out intermediate would move the end of the season back a few weeks

YFlyer

I think there is a mistake in the 'Ages' category of the rules stating that Masters have to be 40 for road and cross country races.

TFBubendorfer

YFlyer wrote: »

I think there is a mistake in the 'Ages' category of the rules stating that Masters have to be 40 for road and cross country races.

Men have to be 40 to count as masters in road races, that's correct. No idea about XC, but imagine it's the same.

Sacksian

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Men have to be 40 to count as masters in road races, that's correct. No idea about XC, but imagine it's the same.

I think it's actually 035 in XC and track, don't know about road.

brutes1

RayCun wrote: »

is there a need for three rungs? Cutting out intermediate would move the end of the season back a few weeks

Perhaps not.

If there were just one big Club Xc post xmas, combining inters and seniors ( many of the same runners ) , with all clubs notified by AAI well in advance etc etc, and with No other races on that day it might bump up numbers.
The desire has to be there among clubs and athletes
I think XC is super racing in general and great training for a spring mara and great to run against the best in pure racing conditions,a bit of hardship is good for us all:D

YFlyer

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Men have to be 40 to count as masters in road races, that's correct. No idea about XC, but imagine it's the same.

Roads were M35 in the 10K championship back in April 2012.

National Cross Country just this month had M35.

brutes1

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Men have to be 40 to count as masters in road races, that's correct. No idea about XC, but imagine it's the same.

Its 35 now IAAF changed rules , and AAI had to follow - and am almost certain all Masters events are now 35 plus as start category, Road , XC and track , the 2012/2013 AAI Results in various events will back these up with a 35 category indiv and team, in National half, ten k , and Masters events, looks like the rule book is incorrect at Ages point 9 but right later on under the events.

Anyway, there is also a Masters XC, should probably stay as standalone ??

Interesting that the Gerry F gets as good a field as any XC race around , ok its a Masters qualifier but also lots of top seniors and juniors

TFBubendorfer

brutes1 wrote: »

Its 35 now IAAF changed rules , and AAI had to follow - and am almost certain all Masters events are now 35 plus as start category, Road , XC and track

Crikey, they've changed the rules AGAIN? :eek:
It was only in 2009 that the M35 category was abolished!

And there was me thinking I would keep my title as the reigning M35 Kerry road running champion forever.

brutes1

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Crikey, they've changed the rules AGAIN? :eek:
It was only in 2009 that the M35 category was abolished!

And there was me thinking I would keep my title as the reigning M35 Kerry road running champion forever.

Dont think it applies in Kerry :):)