Why does Ireland have such a bad mental health stigma??

rox5

I typed out "mental health stigma" on Google and the first thing that came up on the window box that comes down from the search bar was "Mental health stigma Ireland" and the ignorance of some people is unbelievable. I mean how is it that some people have such a bad attitude towards mental illness?
I mean sometimes I think I have depression and I remember in school when I was going through a really bad mood one day, I drew a picture depicting a suicide act. Someone saw me and told a teacher who told a close relative of me. This relative did not tell me she knew for a WHOLE year. Also the kid who was usally nice to me, I noticed how he become very awkward and ignorant towards me and now I understand why.

I mean, in my opinion, anyone who seems to be mentally ill is suddenly outcasted from society in fear of them snapping and killing someone, or doing some sort of immoral act. People seem to also be ashamed to be associated or related to some with a mental illness.
I know a friend of mine who has a brother who tried to kill himself twice and apparently hit her in the face and also their sister who was a few months pregnant. Really bad things to do, I know, but what disgusts me is her attitude. She thinks he only tried to kill himself for attention, also she isolates her own brother by telling people at her sister's wedding not to talk to him, and she does not speak to him at all. I suppose I can understand from him hitting her, but personally I find her behavior towards him worse, because if he tried to kill himself, he is not an evil man towards his family, he just needs help. The times I have talked to him, yes he seems a bit eccentric as he has a tendancy to stare, but overall he is a quiet, nice man to me.

I just what to know about people's opinion's here on mental health and why there is such a stigma towards it?

humbert

FYI, it said Ireland because you're googling from Ireland and google takes that into account. (If you're not in Ireland I stand corrected)

krudler

"Have a drink, you'll be grand, sure it could be worse" is what passes for mental health advice in this country.

My name is URL

rox5 wrote: »

I mean how is it that some people have such a bad attitude towards mental illness?

Because they don't understand it very well, and are scared of stuff they don't understand.

juice1304

Because the vast majority of people in this country are ignorant, bigoted, self-centred halfwits who think they are morally superior to everyone around them and always feel the need put others down to make themselves feel better about their miserable drink fuelled existence.:)

Tazium

Sure we all laugh at people with depression anyway.

SV

krudler wrote: »

"Have a drink, you'll be grand, sure it could be worse" is what passes for mental health advice in this country.

This is so horribly true, if any area in this country needed improvement it'd have to be mental health awareness.

People throw around the word depression every time they feel a bit sad and I think it's desensitized people to just how soul crushing actual depression really is.

Weathering

I think it depends on the type of mental illness. In the case of your friends brother yes he needs help but he is obviousy a danger to other people and clearly unstable. Understand his illness and help hin yes but equally don't be naive to what he is capable of if he has violent tendencies.

People who suffer from depression etc I think these people unfairly have a stigma attached to them,lots can't understand it and have a cop on mentality towards it. Also many see it as a sign of weakness

Mental illness is a complicated subject and education is needed in schools for people to properly understand it. I'm 5 years out of school and we never learned about it at all. It was a don't talk about it taboo subject.

I think too much dependency is put on pills as a solution to help people when in many cases it can make the person worse and was uncalled for to begin with. Sometimes people just need a friend and someone who can understand them without judgement to get back on track towards recovery

Micky Dolenz

Any examples of countries who have it nailed?

Genuine question.

Agricola

Severe Bi-Polarity >>>> "Ah shure the nerves do be at him now and again"

Taking a large quanity of antidepressants >>>> "Shure he do be on the tablets"

Reclusiveness, suicidal thoughts >>>>>>> "He took to the bed for a couple a days, be grand"

who what when

My name is URL wrote: »

Because they don't understand it very well, and are scared of stuff they don't understand.

Or maybe its the crazies people are afraid of?
I dont understand partical physics but im not afraid of it.

suicide_circus

It's probably the fault of either the Catholic Church or the British. I don't know how exactly... but i'm sure someone will be along shortly to elaborate.

rox5

humbert wrote: »

FYI, it said Ireland because you're googling from Ireland and google takes that into account. (If you're not in Ireland I stand corrected)

Ah..I actually did not know that, sorry.

But it is still bad though as we do still have a bad stigma towards mental health.

Agricola

The crux of it is that it used to bring shame on upstanding citizens if they had a person with a mental illness in the family. In the same way that unmarried daughters with kids brought shame on good solid catholics. My father often told me about a brother in law of his who had to "have stints in the mad house" from time to time to sort him out. They could get no-one except my father to bring him and collect him on these journeys, and when he returned no one dared to talk about it. It was a weird country back then, still is in many ways I suppose.

Micky Dolenz

I think we have taken massive leaps in the last few years. Looking at how many organisations dealing with different mental health aspects would reflect that. These services are only there as people use.

Of course we could always be better.

rox5

juice1304 wrote: »

Because the vast majority of people in this country are ignorant, bigoted, self-centred halfwits who think they are morally superior to everyone around them and always feel the need put others down to make themselves feel better about their miserable drink fuelled existence.:)

By god, is that the truth! Know way too many people like that in my life, think it's one of the reasons why I have depression because I was nothing but critiscised about everything I did.

orestes

I don't understand it -> It's bad & scary -> It's something to be ashamed of -> Don't talk about it -> Sweep it under the carpet -> No education about it -> I don't understand it -> It's bad & scary -> It's something to be ashamed of -> Don't talk about it -> Sweep it under the carpet -> No education about it -> I don't understand it -> It's bad & scary -> It's something to be ashamed of -> Don't talk about it -> Sweep it under the carpet -> No education about it -> I don't understand it -> repeat over and over and over and over until the cycle is broken by creating awareness.

enda1

Cause the whole country's nuts?

Micky Dolenz

juice1304 wrote: »

Because the vast majority of people in this country are ignorant, bigoted, self-centred halfwits who think they are morally superior to everyone around them and always feel the need put others down to make themselves feel better about their miserable drink fuelled existence.:)

Where do you live and what type of people do you know? Sounds horrible. Thankfully I grew up in a nicer part of the island.

King of Kings

have we evidence that we treat mental health badly?

like in recent times ?
in the past few years I've worked with a few people who took stress leave.
all were treated very well by companies (it was a few jobs) and allowed tons of time to recoup etc

We can't just label the whole country based on some stereotype from the savage eye.

on another note - this kicking ourselves in the nuts that we are **** at everything is becoming tired and lame.
we are an amazing country full of decent friendly intelligent people - yes we have a few junkies and dirtbags but on the whole ireland rocks.

Wibbs

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Where do you live and what type of people do you know? Sounds horrible. Thankfully I grew up in a nicer part of the island.

+1000 The vast majority of people in this country are not ignorant, bigoted, self-centred halfwits who think they are morally superior. That's entirely your worldview, it doesn't necessarily reflect objective reality. IMH not even closely. Sure if you look for examples to back up your subjective view, you'll find them. However if another crazily optimist person did the same I guarantee they'd find just as many examples to back up their worldview. I know which worldview I'd prefer/take. People would often prefer to be proven "right" than be happy.

Scruffles

Agricola wrote: »

The crux of it is that it used to bring shame on upstanding citizens if they had a person with a mental illness in the family. In the same way that unmarried daughters with kids brought shame on good solid catholics. My father often told me about a brother in law of his who had to "have stints in the mad house" from time to time to sort him out. They could get no-one except my father to bring him and collect him on these journeys, and when he returned no one dared to talk about it. It was a weird country back then, still is in many ways I suppose.

it was exactly the same here.

being a particular nationality isnt being a different species,society in england has been absolutely fcking degrading to people with mental illness,it was also the same way with people who had any form of disability,we were all expected to be kept indoors lest we frighten some sensitive ignorant soul.

but with much campaigns from mental health charities such as MIND,people are realising theyre no different to the rest of us and are at risk of suffering from mental illness themselves,the segregative gap created by the 'us VS them' mentality has slowly been getting smaller,thanks to education and national awareness.
in illness and disability there shoud be no us VS them,that is putting people on a hierarchy of worth when no one is better nor of a superior species-we are all of the same mould of flesh,bits and pieces and stuff...

ireland coud do with some big mental health campaigns,and perhaps boardsies who feel strongly coud all plan something in their local areas for world mental health day-
http://www.who.int/mental_health/en/ ages to go yet in october but it gets a good reception over here.

armchair fusilier

Despite all that money the Government raked in during the boom the share of total public health expenditure spent on mental health services has fallen in the past 20 years from just under 14% in 1984 to 7.76% in 2007. There's no votes in it apparently. Maybe sometime in the distant future we will get a taoiseach standing up in the dail to issue a state apology for the inadequacies these services.

leaveiton

I think a big part of it is that when people hear the term "mental health" they automatically jump to things such as severe depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc, and the more "normal" end of the spectrum often goes unnoticed.

I'm no expert on it at all, but in my view, we all go through mental health problems at some stage, in the same way that we all will have problems with our physical health. And just like with physical health, there'll be some people who are rarely afflicted, some who have more serious conditions, with most of us lying somewhere in the middle.

However, I don't think this sort of middle-ground is normalised enough. We all go through periods of sadness or stress, just as we all get coughs and colds. But if you're going through (for example) a very stressful period and needed some time off work, people will be more inclined to say things like "Sure we all get stressed, it's no big deal." Whereas say you were suffering from chronic headaches, people would barely bat an eyelid if you were to take time off for that, even though everyone would get headaches, just maybe not to that extent.

King of Kings

armchair fusilier wrote: »

Despite all that money the Government raked in during the boom the share of total public health expenditure spent on mental health services has fallen in the past 20 years from just under 14% in 1984 to 7.76% in 2007. There's no votes in it apparently. Maybe sometime in the distant future we will get a taoiseach standing up in the dail to issue a state apology for the inadequacies these services.

can you prove that, given the vast array of health services etc...that 7.75% of the total spend is unfair?

I would imagine given A&E, Developmental issues with child, cancer, general infections, long term illness, disabilities etc...mental health isn't a huge area. or is it?
Not to say it's not worthy - far from it but is 7.76% a unfair share?

rox5

King of Kings wrote: »

have we evidence that we treat mental health badly?

like in recent times ?
in the past few years I've worked with a few people who took stress leave.
all were treated very well by companies (it was a few jobs) and allowed tons of time to recoup etc

We can't just label the whole country based on some stereotype from the savage eye.

on another note - this kicking ourselves in the nuts that we are **** at everything is becoming tired and lame.
we are an amazing country full of decent friendly intelligent people - yes we have a few junkies and dirtbags but on the whole ireland rocks.

Well last year I remember seeing on the Today Show that there was a report on mental illness stigma and how one woman applied for an job and when she mentioned to the employer that she has schizophrenia, the employer never rang back, and another person with bipolar illness was made to feel like absolute crap when some people found out and how he felt like a waste of space. So yeah, even now people treat mental illness badly.

Micky Dolenz

rox5 wrote: »

Well last year I remember seeing on the Today Show that there was a report on mental illness stigma and how one woman applied for an job and when she mentioned to the employer that she has schizophrenia, the employer never rang back, and another person with bipolar illness was made to feel like absolute crap when some people found out and how he felt like a waste of space. So yeah, even now people treat mental illness badly.

I can bet my bottom dollar that a lot of potential employers will shy away from any potential employee with a long term illness, be it metal or physical. It's not right but I don't think it is exclusively a mental health issue.

orestes

rox5 wrote: »

Well last year I remember seeing on the Today Show that there was a report on mental illness stigma and how one woman applied for an job and when she mentioned to the employer that she has schizophrenia, the employer never rang back, and another person with bipolar illness was made to feel like absolute crap when some people found out and how he felt like a waste of space. So yeah, even now people treat mental illness badly.

In the first example it's always possible that the woman just wasn't the best candidate for the job, regardless of her mental health issues. In the second example was the person made to feel crap because people knew he is bipolar or did people he worked with start treating him badly? It's possible they were became uncomfortable and self-conscious knowing that people were aware of their condition.

I'm not saying that was the case, but they are possibilities, like every form of discrimination it's important to try to see the differences between legitimate instances and red herrings.

armchair fusilier

King of Kings wrote: »

can you prove that, given the vast array of health services etc...that 7.75% of the total spend is unfair?


Not to say it's not worthy - far from it but is 7.76% a unfair share?

The EU average is 12%. You'll find plenty of evidence on the internet showing that our mental health services are ,in fact, inadequate - if you care to look.

DeVore

Most people are scared to empathise when someone talks about mental difficulties because a lot of them are papering over the cracks in their own mental health and refusing to acknowledge them.



Of this I have grown really really reeeeaally fncking tired.

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I can bet my bottom dollar that a lot of potential employers will shy away from any potential employee with a long term illness, be it metal or physical. It's not right but I don't think it is exclusively a mental health issue.

Exactly. Employers just don't want people who are going to be out a lot or cause them any hassle.

Which is a bit ridiculous, really. I've had countless colleagues tell me my health isn't up to the job, because I have more sick days than average. But what am I meant to do, exactly? Stay on the dole all my life?

King of Kings

armchair fusilier wrote: »

The EU average is 12%. You'll find plenty of evidence on the internet showing that our mental health services are ,in fact, inadequate - if you care to look.

sorry but that is not what i asked.

starlings

I bowed out of the "Let's all laugh at people with depression" thread early on, because there was a call for greater understanding of depression, but very little practical information on strategies for understanding and helping someone who is depressed.

Sympathy for the mentally ill - which I think most of us have, in fairness - can only go so far, and I think a lot of what is perceived as stigma is in fact a helpless, hopeless, gut-wrenching withdrawal from dealing with an incredibly complex disease.

In short, hugs are lovely, but they're only the start of an uncharted course in the dark.

Wattle

When you think about its not so long since we locked up thousands of people who were anyway different in the likes of Grangegorman. I think that attitude may still linger a bit. Mention mental health problems to some people and they lump simple depression in with the psychotically dangerous. Yes there is more awareness of it now and more places to go (Aware for example was great help to me) for help. Having said that I have heard plenty of horror stories from those who have tried to access HSE body's especially the public system where you have no consistency over who see's you (therefore no opportunity to establish a rapport) and often have to wait months for an appointment when your case may be an emergency. Also, and I hate to do a Des Bishop on this, but given the way we drink is it really any wonder how bad the statistics are when our main pastime is getting out of our heads on a substance that is itself a depressant?

armchair fusilier

King of Kings wrote: »

sorry but that is not what i asked.

It being almost half the EU average and the sorry state of our mental health sevices would indicate that - yes, it is an "unfair" amount. What exactly are you looking for?

Pretzill

We are lifting the stigma somewhat, at least we aren't as much in the dark ages, as when we were in the dark ages. But stigma only exists because of lack of understanding, I think in most western countries there is a stigma attached to ill health, whether it be mental or physical. I am sure there are many people with long term illness who don't want people nodding there heads and sighing with sympathy. A mental health issue was viewed upon as something to be a little scared of, I think that barrier is breaking down, of course the fear comes from not wanting to have to suffer yourself from something that can seem to be inexplicable, uncontrollable. But it isn't that simple, just like a headache could be a migraine or a tumor, poor mental health has a wide spectrum, but these are the things that defines us. A stigma is a mark of shame in definition - I would have to do a lot worse to feel shame than suffer from an illness.

Gi joe!

Jaxon Squeaking Key wrote: »

Exactly. Employers just don't want people who are going to be out a lot or cause them any hassle.

Which is a bit ridiculous, really. I've had countless colleagues tell me my health isn't up to the job, because I have more sick days than average. But what am I meant to do, exactly? Stay on the dole all my life?

It really is quite an unspoken issue that needs to be addressed. The problem is that we can't yet be fully comfortable in letting employers know we have a mental disability as we know it will have a pretty adverse effect on our chances of getting work.

You can only do the best with what you're given I guess. If people have mental or health issues and this is coming into play in a job selection process, thats discrimination imo.

Imagine someone with a physical disability being told they're 'not up' to doing an office type job. That they'd miss too many days due to needing to see a physical therapist etc. There'd be uproar.

St.Spodo

juice1304 wrote: »

Because the vast majority of people in this country are ignorant, bigoted, self-centred halfwits who think they are morally superior to everyone around them and always feel the need put others down to make themselves feel better about their miserable drink fuelled existence.:)

Idiotic thing to say.

KCC

I think some realism needs to be injected into this thread. There are many different types of mental illness, some more difficult to deal with than others. Depending on the illness, it can dramatically affect the work performance of the person in question and can cause disruption and upset to others. Recurring sick leave is also a huge issue.

As difficult as it surely is for the suffering person, it can also be extremely hard for those around them (colleagues, family, friends). It's more a case of stress than stigma.

I'm not saying that stigma doesn't exist. I'm just saying that it can be complicated, especially in the work place.

cloud493

I find even among people in my own age(late teens, mid twenties) there's a certain amount of mental health ignorance, if intolerance.

ashers22

rox5 wrote: »

Well last year I remember seeing on the Today Show that there was a report on mental illness stigma and how one woman applied for an job and when she mentioned to the employer that she has schizophrenia, the employer never rang back, and another person with bipolar illness was made to feel like absolute crap when some people found out and how he felt like a waste of space. So yeah, even now people treat mental illness badly.

I applied for a very good job with a pharma company about 5 years ago, I had just started to pull out of an extremely difficult period that lasted several years and was once again able to begin working. ( I was affected by depression enough that working wasn't possible as I had lost the ability for speech and had been so isolated human touch and communication was still difficult) I wasn't on meds but my doctor was aware of how affected I was and I had a medical record so when it came to the medical assessment I knew that I had the choice to lie and say nothing or be honest about it and inform them of the situation. I chose to inform them, knowing it might hinder my chances. I was called back for a second assessment and they queried it and asked if I thought it would be an issue and could my doctor verify this. After I explained the work would possibly help and my doctor confirmed they offered me the job.
They were amazing employers, I was given a manual and phone numbers and a contact if I ever needed assistance and a counselor was available to all employees to deal with any stress related issues. I was one of thirty candidates for the job and getting it was the push I needed to get back to better health. I've never gone back to being as disabled by depression since then. I'm aware of it, I do my best to help myself so as not to be overcome by the things that would throw me back there and I look after my health now.

I should state that my employers were an American company, I don't know if an Irish company would be so supportive.

SimonTemplar

Some people are also simply ill informed, naive, plain stupid or a combination of all three.

A few years ago I was working in a HR department. One of the staff members was (very justifiably) on sick leave due to depression. Her line manager once said "she's only young, what has she got to be depressed about?" That made my blood boil!

seenitall

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Some people are also simply ill informed, naive, plain stupid or a combination of all three.

A few years ago I was working in a HR department. One of the staff members was (very justifiably) on sick leave due to depression. Her line manager once said "she's only young, what has she got to be depressed about?" That made my blood boil!

To be fair, that sounds more like pure ignorance about the illness, rather than deliberate nastiness.

SimonTemplar

seenitall wrote: »

To be fair, that sounds more like pure ignorance about the illness, rather than deliberate nastiness.

It was her tone and body language also, suggesting the girl was just saying she was ill to get off work.

DeVore

Which is also crazy because people pass right on by "sick days" when someone has "a cough which has given me food poisioning"... which everyone knows was caused by the 7th pint the night before.... but when its a case of mental health, even legitimate cases are questioned.

Zer0

Yes but only because most people don't have a good common knowledge of it. Whereas those that know and can spot it can accommodate and be somewhat understanding towards the person. A poll might be a good idea op?

Some people also fear it because they may think the person is crazy or fear the unknown, e.g. unpredictable behavior.. Some employers can also be like this.

But I find that if the person at hand takes the time to explain their illness and also what challenges it may present and that they're not a danger to themselves or the general public, then that may also alleviate some fear and tension.

Solair

Very few (if any) countries have wonderful attitudes towards mental illness. They've all have (or recently had) very dark histories of institutionalisation and worse (e.g. compulsory steralisation of mentally ill / people with learning difficulties etc in the US, Canada and Sweden amongst other places went on until the 1970s !!!)

I think Ireland's rapidly becoming a lot less hung up about many things, including mental health, but it will just take time. However, I really don't think it's very different from anywhere else (certainly in the English-speaking world) to be perfectly honest.

If anything, Irish people are more likely to sweep mental illness under the carpet / put it down to 'ah she had a few problems with her nerves' ... 'pull yourself together, have a cup of tea, you'll be grand' ... than get all fixated and stigma-applying about it.

Americans on the other hand tend to want to diagnose their cat with obsessive compulsive disorder and various other things because it REALLY likes chasing mice and doesn't spend enough time socialising and has difficulty paying attention to reading material....They're even worse when it comes to people and a lot of the time seem to end up turning personality types into pathologies that need to be treated.

If anything, I'd say mental illness is far more stigmatised and probably blown out of all proportion in the United States than it is here.

I'd say any stigma that is here tends to stem from the horrendous Victorian institutionalisation that went on for FAR too long. So, there was a combination of stigma about having been in such a place and probably also terror of being sent to such a hell hole.

However, the UK and many other places had pretty much the same types of institutions, so it's really not all that uniquely Irish. However, we do need to deal with it.

I actually think a lot of mental illnesses, particularly things like depression, bipolar disorder, etc etc would be a hell of a lot easier deal with if they were just widely understood. A very large % of the difficulties seem to be magnified by the fact that people don't have a clue what's going on / are worried about what people might think.

You don't get many people feeling stigmatised by their heart problems, asthma, dodgy knees, dodgy hips etc etc. Don't really think they should be getting all that worried about mental illness either. Also, unlike all those other illnesses, being able to talk about it could actually help a LOT.