My Build first time ( unsure)

Snowie

Hi,

I'm looking at building a pc I'd like to booth thank and blame BloodBath for helping me develop what could be considered and OCD like behavior to wards my first gaming pc. BloodBath recommended but i found more money so I had a look around search the web and came up with the below one

Item|Price
AMD Black Edition AMD FX 6300|€120.50
ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3|€59.66
Sapphire RADEON HD 7850 OC|€186.45
Kingston HyperX 8gb|€49.94
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€60.89
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.79
Super Flower SF-450P14HE|€45.39
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€554.61

I do have a €100 extra i could pump into a better gpu xfx or maybe a Nvidia of some sort and an SSD?. Opinions thoughts would be great as im really unsure what will suit me and my budget Im completely new to this..
thanks

Snowie

Item|Price
AMD Black Edition AMD FX 8350|€176.12
Xilence Power Gehäuselüfter 9cm|€1.99
ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0|€128.90
Sapphire RADEON HD 7850|€186.45
XFX Core Edition PRO750W|€81.49
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€38.84
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€60.89
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.79
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€686.05

Its a bit more of a stretch and i dont really know what Power suply unit to get but, its another option ?

marco_polo

Just so we know what sort of monitor you have, and exactly what you need the PC for etc. You might fill this out quickly (or link to a previous if you have done so before).

Snowie

No problems at all

1. What is your budget? [680.00] .

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Gaming/Video editing


3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [No]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer?no

5. Do you need a monitor? [No] LG 32 inch 1080p/ 22inch dvi dell lcd monitar

5a. If yes, what size do you need.

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080/1440x900/etc.] [Yes] Future one dvi out and one hdmi

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? no

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [Yes]

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser]

9. When are you purchasing? [3 weeks]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? not sure

My location is waterford

BloodBath

Good to see the budget increase. You could go to an intel system for that money. I went over budget sadly but there are ways of getting back down.

Item|Price
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€82.94
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€199.81
Sapphire Radeon HD 7850, 2GB GDDR5, lite retail|€166.00
Kingston SSDNow V300 60GB SATA III|€52.32
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€59.00
Sharkoon Vaya schwarz, ohne Netzteil|€25.93
Xilence Power Gehäuselüfter 12cm|€2.42
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€45.39
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.75
8GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz PC3-10667U CL9-9-9-24|€39.00
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€704.55

I left out an improved cooler to get closer to the budget. You could still overclock this to about 4ghz. You would need to upgrade your cooler to get higher.

marco_polo

The FX8320 wouldn't be a bad alternative CPU for video editing either. You can overclock it about the same amount as the FX8350.

Item|Price
BitFenix Merc Alpha|€32.01
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€45.39
ASRock 970 Pro3, AM3+, ATX|€60.89
8GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 DDR3-1333 CL9|€44.85
AMD FX-8320 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+|€151.40
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.56
Crucial M4 64GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€68.24
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€59.00
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.75
Sapphire Radeon HD 7850, 2GB GDDR5, lite retail|€166.00
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€688.08

The 450W would be fine for a reasonable overclock but for heavily overclocking the FX8320 I'd probably get the 550W and the Extreme3 board because its VRMs have heatsinks for an extra 20 or so. As nice to have the shinobi is a decent case with front USB3.0 as well.

BloodBath

That shinobi doesn't have USB 3.0 either unless the pictures and spec's are wrong.

Overclocked amd 8000 series processor's are hugely power hungry so you may well want to upgrade your psu if you go with one.

At the moment they beat the 3570k's in multi threaded apps but fall behind a bit in games. They may well go ahead in games if they start making more use of more cores which judging by the next gen of console hardware specs they will do.

Snowie

Blood bath i decided to find a couple of extra quid

lads there booth pretty impressive specs thanks
I was doing the old copper count and had €25.00 I picked up this case here and I was thinking of fitting two 120mm fans on the side and two 92 mil fans front and back. I do know cooling s important and plan to upgrade to something better in a few months.

If I narrow out the ssd and the case's it gives me, €70.00s off. Which i guess i can wait a few weeks for it and pick one up again.

I5 intel 3570k for gaming whats that like with the Sapphire Radeon HD 7850, 2GB will i see an ok frame rate, can the 7850 be over clocked as well? Thats part of the temptation with the fx 6300 I could potentially get a better gpu, but again you guys know a lot more then me .

I would just like a decent setup honestly Im not to bother about what the make is more so what it does.

EDIT:
Blood bath, that's part of the reason for looking at it how ever I'm just not really sure what to do i do really want to use it as a gaming machine tbh,

marco_polo

It USB 3.0 alright, it says it in the title as well .

http://www.bitfenix.com/global/en/products/chassis/shinobi

I think the 8320 is a reasonable option on a middle range budget particularly when video editing is thrown into the mix, bar the odd exception like the extremely CPU heavy starcraft 2, there aren't too many normal gaming situations where it will noticeably impact gaming performance when paired with a HD 7850.

marco_polo

If it is more for gaming than editing then I would probably pair the FX6300 with a HD7870. For strictly gaming purposes the FX6300 is better value for money than the FX8320, it wouldn't be as good for video editing but respectable nonetheless.

Depending on how attached you are to the SSD you could of course ditch that, and get an i5 as well if you want the best CPU you can get.

Item|Price
BitFenix Shinobi Midi-Tower USB 3.0 black, ohne Netzteil|€53.03
ASRock 970 Pro3, AM3+, ATX|€60.89
8GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 DDR3-1333 CL9|€44.85
AMD FX-6300 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+|€120.50
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.56
HIS HD 7870 GDDR5 2048MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP|€190.04
Crucial M4 64GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€68.24
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€59.00
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.75
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€45.39
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€702.24

If you head over to Techspot and read some of their CPU/GPU gaming reviews you'll get a good idea of how the various processors perform in recent games.

BloodBath

I wouldn't get that case on dab's tbh. It looks pretty awful. For the sake of €5 the vaya is a far better case.

The 7850 is a great overclocker. You should be able to get those clocks way higher. Something in the region of 30-40% higher. There's very little between it and the 7870 when overclocked.

Games are going to start making use of at least 4 cores very soon so I'm not sure if there's much value in the 6300. Upgrading your graphics card in a couple of years is far easier than having to upgrade the cpu, mainboard and possibly ram. A good cpu will last you 5 years.

marco_polo

BloodBath wrote: »

I wouldn't get that case on dab's tbh. It looks pretty awful. For the sake of €5 the vaya is a far better case.

You should be able to get those clocks way higher. Something in the region of 30-40% higher. There's very little between it and the 7870 when overclocked.

Games are going to start making use of at least 4 cores very soon so I'm not sure if there's much value in the 6300. Upgrading your graphics card in a couple of years is far easier than having to upgrade the cpu, mainboard and possibly ram. A good cpu will last you 5 years.

I am starting to wonder if you like to just argue just for the sake of it because in another thread you were telling me the FX6300 wasn't worth an extra tenner over the FX-4170, so I'm a bit confused as to what has changed so dramatically in the gaming industry in the past four days.

Looking at my task manager over the past year while gaming I'd say the bulk of most recent games do use all four cores of my CPU, but as of yet they don't need to utilize them fully. Its not like the current generation of CPUs are the end of the line for AM3+ either as piledriver has yet to arrive so a CPU only upgrade remains a possibility with my build.

The FX6300 is a good balance for a HD7850/7870 that will give perfectly satisfactory gaming performance now, the i5 is of course a better processor, and I am certainly not telling him not to get one, but something has to give for 650 - 700 euros.

I can only guess that you are trying to undermine what I think is a fairly reasonable spend of 650-700 because you have taken it as some sort of critism of yours own effort, if so that is most certainly not the case.

BloodBath

I am starting to wonder if you like to just argue just for the sake of it because in another thread you were telling me the FX6300 wasn't worth an extra tenner over the FX-4170, so I'm a bit confused as to what has changed so dramatically in the gaming industry in the past four days.

You like to misquote me as well. You mean this thread here? I wasn't fully up to scratch on how the FX line performed and was trying to keep inside his budget which I had already gone over. Based on your input I agreed the 6300 was worth it.

Would you chose the 6300 over a 3570k when the price for both builds is the same? I'm only giving my opinion. I'm not out to disagree with you for the sake of it. I'm just trying to give the guy good advice. Admittedly there won't be many upgrade paths in socket 1155 but you should get 4-5 years out of an overclocked 3570k anyway. I'm not sure what amd's future for am3+ is.

I can only guess that you are trying to undermine what I think is a fairly reasonable spend of 650-700 because you have taken it as some sort of critism of yours own effort, if so that is most certainly not the case.

I think you're reading way to much into this. I just happen to disagree with you on certain things and am only giving my opinion which happens to differ from time to time. I make mistakes too. My knowledge isn't 100% across the board but that's the whole point of the forum anyway. We can all give some input and he can make up his own mind. There's no personal malice if I happen to disagree with you.

marco_polo

Fair enough forgive my little hissy fit , but slotting in the FX6300 and Pro3 into your build would not be the same price as the i5, but €100 euro less. It is just that I am spending that elsewhere on a CPU cooler and slight improvements to a few other components.

Although the Vaya is functional budget case the Shinobi is better quality case, the M4 is a better SSD, a CPU cooler is included and a sliighlty better GPU, the HD 7870 is no slouch at the overclocking itself, and can be nudged up toward stock HD7950 performance. Although on a strict performance/€ ration the HD 7850 wins, I have an overclocked HD7850 and feel that it is just ever so slightly undercooked @1080p for maxing out the likes of Far Cry 3/Crysis 3.

So you will have better gaming performance in most GPU limited games now, at the expense of requiring a CPU upgrade the medium term (2-3 years). The other option is of course to drop the SSD for now and then the OP can have everything straight away.

BloodBath

The thing is you will need that aftermarket cooler to overclock the 6300 to high levels and it still won't touch the 3570k with the stock cooler so it kinda defeats the point.

I'm sure the shinobi is better but somethings gotta give with the budget and the case is the least important component + one of the easiest to save money on.

The M4 has a proven reliability record but it is not a better ssd. In terms of performance that kingston is all over it.

The 7850 vs the 7870 is much like the 7950 vs the 7970. When overclocked to the same clocks there will only be 5% difference in performance between the 2. If the 7850 feels slightly undercooked for 1080p so will the 7870. Even my 7970 feels slightly undercooked on certain games. I'm guessing frame latency is a big part of the issue in FC3.

Snowie

Blood bath with you on the hole t777 looking pretty damm ick But I want to support my local shops to, I'm getting my keyboard and mouse of them yes its a little more expensive but small independent business's need support to

So with much kicking ideas round i recon this could be a good build I really want a good graphics card, I've been looking at them all I dont mind spending a little extra My plan in about 3 months is to update in the future Maybe a better mobo and cpu and more ram and another tower.

So for this moment in time would this set up be any good. I wanna thank you guys for taking time out to reply to?

I'm planing on ordering everything for the 1th but could be as soon as the 4th, depending if I can get a bit more of a loan.

what do you think?

Item|Price
8gb Corsair Vengence|€39.04
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€45.39
ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3|€59.66
Sapphire RADEON HD 7950|€274.94
AMD Black Edition AMD FX 6300|€120.00
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€59.00
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.75
2x120Mill fans | €15.00
2x92mill fans | €10.00
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€653.78

just seen the post about the bbet cooling system for the cpu noted

marco_polo

BloodBath wrote: »

The thing is you will need that aftermarket cooler to overclock the 6300 to high levels and it still won't touch the 3570k with the stock cooler so it kinda defeats the point.

I'm sure the shinobi is better but somethings gotta give with the budget and the case is the least important component + one of the easiest to save money on.

The M4 has a proven reliability record but it is not a better ssd. In terms of performance that kingston is all over it.

The 7850 vs the 7870 is much like the 7950 vs the 7970. When overclocked to the same clocks there will only be 5% difference in performance between the 2. If the 7850 feels slightly undercooked for 1080p so will the 7870. Even my 7970 feels slightly undercooked on certain games. I'm guessing frame latency is a big part of the issue in FC3.

On average though you are more likely to get better overclocks with a HD7870 because it will be a higher grade GPU although of course if does depend on the silicon lottery.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_hd_7850_and_7870_review,23.html
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1863/14/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/29.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/504-amd-radeon-7870-7850/page11.html

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the OP doesn't even nescesarly have to spend the €100 difference if he so chooses. just don't think an FX 6300 isn't going to hurt the gamiing performance of a HD7850/7870 over the next couple of years.

EDIT: Just looked up the Kingston v300 reviews certainly very impressive speeds for the price alright, I didn't realise they had refreshed that line of drives recently.

marco_polo

No case?

You mention upgrading in three months do you mean the CPU and mobo? I think if that is the case I think you should hold off and combine the funds from then and now to get the i5 build (In fact I'm pretty sure Haswell processors and boards may have launched by then? April AFAIK).

If you did go with the Fx6300 you I would have been thinking to hold onto it for at least two years and then upgrade to the steamroller successor to the FX8350.

BloodBath

All of those reviews used stock voltage for the overclocks. They also used overdrive which has max limits that they reached. If you use Trixx or afterburner the limits will be much higher and you can adjust the voltage.

Snowie

777 tbird yep its horrible bit some spray paint and itle look just fine and i got it for 25 quid of my local computer shop... I know the case dont look to nice but ill fix that

That's a very fair point on the i5 and doesn't really bring my price up to much its €80.00 which I guess cant be all bad.. Being honest i always intend to go for an I7 in the future I just cant afford one right now. Im not super new on the hole processor thing

Snowie

BloodBath wrote: »

All of those reviews used stock voltage for the overclocks. They also used overdrive which has max limits that they reached. If you use Trixx or afterburner the limits will be much higher and you can adjust the voltage.

On the GPU i take it?

BloodBath

Yes. It's the same with 7950 and 7970's. Both should overclock to around the same clocks. Only the extra stream processors make a difference in performance. They are still the same gpu's.

I don't think we're ever going to see 6 or 8 core processors on 1155 so there won't be many upgrade options down the line for that platform.

marco_polo

BloodBath wrote: »

All of those reviews used stock voltage for the overclocks. They also used overdrive which has max limits that they reached. If you use Trixx or afterburner the limits will be much higher and you can adjust the voltage.

BloodBath wrote: »

Yes. It's the same with 7950 and 7970's. Both should overclock to around the same clocks. Only the extra stream processors make a difference in performance. They are still the same gpu's.

I don't think we're ever going to see 6 or 8 core processors on 1155 so there won't be many upgrade options down the line for that platform.

If you get a really good HD7850 there isn't much in it. But you can't completely discount the effect of binning that occurs during the manufacturing process, which is used to seperate the GPUs that will become HD7850 and HD7950s from those that become HD7870 and HD7970s (And those are then further binned again by AMD board partner into candidates for stock clocked cards and overclocked ones).

That is why the HD7870s tend to overclock better and why there is a only a boost edition of the 7950 instead of a GHz edition like the 7970, because on average the best silicon is reserved for the more premium product lines.

Also the techreport review went beyond the CCC limits the a HD7850, and the relative performance improvement was almost identical, in the region of 18% each, which keeps a healthy performance gap between the cards when both are overclocked to the limit.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/29.html

The HD 7850 overclocks a bit worse than the HD 7870 in terms of maximum clock speed, but that is to be expected from a lower-grade GPU. Maximum clocks are 1140 MHz (+33%) and 1580 MHz (+32%).

BloodBath

The overclocks listed in this section were achieved with the default fan and voltage settings

Neither card is overclocked to it's limit on stock voltages.

All those cards, (7850, 7870, 7950, 7970 have similar top level limits of around 1200/6000 clocks if you can keep them cool enough.

Snowie

Ok blood bath I don't know enough to really understand what it is your getting at is the 7950 not a good card or should I get something like a eVGA GeForce GTX 670 ?

BloodBath

I thought you were getting a 7850/70. Would a 7950 not bring you way over budget?

I was just getting at the fact I don't think the 70 versions of the cards are worth the extra over the 50 versions if you are overclocking. The performance gains don't reflect the price differences.

The 670 is a bit better than the 7950. Both will get similar frame rates but the Nvidia cards have better frame latency.

The 670 costs €90 more than the 7950 though.

Snowie

BloodBath wrote: »

I thought you were getting a 7850/70. Would a 7950 not bring you way over budget?

I was just getting at the fact I don't think the 70 versions of the cards are worth the extra over the 50 versions if you are overclocking. The performance gains don't reflect the price differences.

The 670 is a bit better than the 7950. Both will get similar frame rates but the Nvidia cards have better frame latency.

The 670 costs €90 more than the 7950 though.

It is €90.00 more but if it means I've got a half way decent system then I'm willing to stretch if the card is going to hold up for me then the others ive thought about So be it..

Maybe put that hundy into a better cpu and mobo?

BloodBath

You're willing to spend half your budget on a graphics card now?

To be honest I don't think the 670 is worth the extra €90 unless you have money to burn. The 7950 is still the best value high end card. You could always go for a 660ti which is about €250. It will have slightly lower frames than the 7950 in most games but will have better frame latency.

Snowie

BloodBath wrote: »

You're willing to spend half your budget on a graphics card now?

To be honest I don't think the 670 is worth the extra €90 unless you have money to burn. The 7950 is still the best value high end card. You could always go for a 660ti which is about €250. It will have slightly lower frames than the 7950 in most games but will have better frame latency.

I know it sounds mad but I play games because I enjoy them
I bought a ps3 launch model its cost a fortune I got 5 years of entertainment out of it . I hoping to do the same with this pc except boost it up a little, well maybe a lot more then that but im happy to spend money.

How ever if i enjoy something Ill do it...Im trying to figure out the best build for me

BloodBath

5 years is about the lifespan of a gaming pc anyway but it will need a graphics card update mid life. That's assuming it has a good processor to start with.

Snowie

BloodBath wrote: »

5 years is about the lifespan of a gaming pc anyway but it will need a graphics card update mid life. That's assuming it has a good processor to start with.

I do get that much Im just trying a good system together

Snowie

Hi folks,

I was going to get the fx6300 but with the discount i can get the 8350. so why not. I know the mother board is a bit over kill but i intend to run to 7950s on cross fire and I also intend to water cool the cpu in about 3 months Once everything is stable so Im just wondering what is everything ok and compatible

Item|Price
AMD Black Edition AMD FX 8350 / 4 GHz processor|€173.40
ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX - 2.0 - motherboard - ATX - Socket AM3+ - AMD 990FX|€145.35
Sapphire VAPOR-X HD 7950 OC with Boost graphics card - Radeon HD 7950 - 3 GB|€280.00
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€60.89
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.79
Super Flower SF-550P14HE Amazon 80plus|€45.39
BitFenix Merc Alpha - mid tower - ATX|€31.68

Shipping|€18.99
Total|€735.20


There's a keyboard and mouse mat in there too but I'm just wondering is the power supply unit up to the job. and what ram would you recommend I've got a budget of about €80.00 Ive got fans to add to the build but id just apricate your help thanks once again.

BloodBath

Looks good. The psu will never handle 2 gpus and the cpu overclocked though. Consider at least 700w.

If you are serious about going dual gpu I'd go Nvidia. Sli scaling is better and more reliable than crossifre from what I've seen. The Nvidia cards are also reasonably less power hungry.

For ram this is good for the price.

Snowie

Thanks man So eventually I'll get a better psu, and move from there I guess will the psu be ok with overclocking and the additional cooling unit, I do intend in over clocking the 7950.. Consider the ram ordered now bring on Monday for the order... Thanks for your help man ...

marco_polo

Might as well save yourself 25 quid and get the FX 8320 since you are overclocking, you should be able to push it very close to the the same limit as you would an FX 8350 anyway.

marco_polo

Sorry for double post but TBH I'd also consider the 990FX Extreme3 as well as it can do 2 X16 PCIe so is perfect for crossfire/SLI and is nearly 60 suid cheaper on HWVS. Combine with the FX8320 and your almost 1/3 of the way to that second HD7950

Snowie

marco_polo wrote: »

Sorry for double post but TBH I'd also consider the 990FX Extreme3 as well as it can do 2 X16 PCIe so is perfect for crossfire/SLI and is nearly 60 suid cheaper on HWVS. Combine with the FX8320 and your almost 1/3 of the way to that second HD7950

Aww know poking holes in my head :pac: I like the idea of the Asrock motherboard.. Im gonna do some reserach and get back to you on that one.

Im sticking with the 8350 I cant find any reason why 20 quid extra is bad thing I could go with an I5 3570k with the savings i get from the mother board :pac:... I've never felt so obessed about anything quite like building my own gaming rig

marco_polo

The reason not to goo too overboard is now that you have caught the obsession, you want to upgrade everything again in about 12 months anyway regardless of how much you spend now

Snowie

marco_polo wrote: »

The reason not to goo too overboard is now that you have caught the obsession, you want to upgrade everything again in about 12 months anyway regardless of how much you spend now

I know mad right... better fnd me a gf who likes gaming :pac: or can a least put up with it :cool: