The best 1 litre query..

hawkelady

Hi,

I'm in the process of looking for an economical car... I want a 1 litre to save on fuel and the tax will be cheaper..
I will be looking at 05/06 models and I think I've narrowed it down to either a micra or a corsa. Will the fuel consumption be the same in both models purely because they are 1 litres?
I've heard micras will run forever ,have corsas the same reputation.

Any of you have recommendations of any good 1 litres other than the ones I mentioned
Thanks

JohnBoy26

A Toyota Yaris or a Diahatsu Sirion are the best 1liter cars imo and are the only two of the lot that are truly reliable and well built.

The Sirion is based on the second generation yaris so offers top notch reliability and build quality and can be bought for reasonable money these days.

Micras of this era share a platform with a renault clio and many components along with it. As a result the micra isn't all that reliable and certainly isn't a patch on the ultra reliable model it replaced.

Opel Corsas (00-06 model) are one of the worst small cars imo. They give steering rack trouble along with other niggley problems and are to be avoided imo.

Mycroft H

Late 90's Micra. Cannot go wrong with it. Otherwise the Yaris.

George Dalton

An 05-06 Micra 1.0 is definitely more reliable than a Corsa. In all other aspects the Corsa is a nicer car though IMO.

ironclaw

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

A Toyota Yaris or a Diahatsu Sirion are the best 1liter cars imo and are the only two of the lot that are truly reliable and well built.

+1 Provided they are well maintained and looked after, they will go forever.

However forget about any long distance mileage or speed. You'll top out at 100km/h and its most efficient at about 110km/h. They don't like 120km/h cruises. Very noisy and rough ride. Really a city car and a great one at that. Park anywhere and nippy below 60km/h.

Also FYI, the 1.0 litre Yaris does about 6.5L/100km. The 1.4l Diesel (2008 model) does 4.5L/100km. In other words, the 1.0 litre petrol Yaris ain't exactly efficient overall on average. In fact I'd almost go as far to say its very inefficient. The Diesel is rare but phenomenally efficient. I've driven both over the past 3 years. I'd highly recommend the Diesel if your doing any sort of mileage.

hawkelady

Thanks for the comments. Never thought of the dihatsu siron.. I can get an 08 one for the same price as a 04/05 yaris. Is there a reason the dihatsu is so much cheaper !!
Keep the thoughts coming as I want the purchase to be the right one ..

shooter88

Roughly what's your yearly mileage

Bigus

Toyota aygo, Peugeot 107,citreon c1 all the same car from the same factory all 1,0 ltr 65 mpg, fun to drive

hawkelady

shooter88 wrote: »

Roughly what's your yearly mileage

It's max 8k .. We have a 2nd family car that we do all the family stuff in..

shooter88

hawkelady wrote: »

It's max 8k .. We have a 2nd family car that we do all the family stuff in..

You will make a saving on a diesel over the year,tax is higher than a 1l but it will pay its self back.plus when its time to sell it diesels are worth more

JohnBoy26

hawkelady wrote: »

Thanks for the comments. Never thought of the dihatsu siron.. I can get an 08 one for the same price as a 04/05 yaris. Is there a reason the dihatsu is so much cheaper !!
Keep the thoughts coming as I want the purchase to be the right one ..

It's cheaper because it's underrated. Not many people know about these cars as they were very poorly advertised in the first place, as a result there is no demand for them, hence them being cheaper to buy than the more popular Yaris.

The fact is though that they are mechanically pretty much the same as the Yaris and every bit as reliable and well built. You won't go wrong with one imo.

JohnBoy26

BX 19 wrote: »

Late 90's Micra. Cannot go wrong with it. Otherwise the Yaris.

Late 90's micras were great cars but they came from the factory with very poor rust protection. Most at this stage will have rust on the sills and front crossmember and in a few other areas underneath.

colm_mcm

Best 1 litre is the yaris without a doubt, but they make crazy money.

That said, missus colm_mcm loves hers and I don't feel scared as a passenger in it.

I would normally say go with the 1.3 L because the 1.0 L over say 100 kph has no power and if on the motorway it will struggle on inclines over 100 kph and so it's not economical on the motorway. But for town and city driving the 1.0L is fine. And it probably won't matter to you anyway if you have another car.

As for the 1.4 L diesel, well it has around 2.5 times the torque of the 1.0L which is very useful and would make for far more comfortable driving especially on the motorway or climbing hills.

I wouldn't bother with the diesels anyway as the petrols go for mad money as it is and the diesels, if you can find one go for more with mad mileage, so that will wipe out any small savings in fuel which you would have to be doing much more than your annual mileage in the first place to justify it.

The only reason to go for the diesel would be for the extra torque.

There are lots out there and some are going for ridiculous money with high mileage, but a few are going with half the mileage for the same money so look around. Check for a full service history, verify the mileage and you should have a very reliable car.

BostonB

Maybe the Diesel is easier to source in NI/UK?

racso1975

Drove the 1.0 yaris for years. Have to say it is a bulletproof car!!!!! Got it when it first arrived back in 99. Would highly recommend it but if siron is the same car but cheaper then its a no brainer.

IMO not worth the hassle going to the U.K. Plenty petrols here. Not worth it for only 8 k miles a year.

ironclaw

Deleted User wrote: »

IMO not worth the hassle going to the U.K. Plenty petrols here. Not worth it for only 8 k miles a year.

I'd echo that. I'd only consider importing a diesel Yaris if the mileage dictated it as they are very rare here and the spec is very much higher on the UK models.

hawkelady

Cheers for the thoughts.
A 06 yaris up north was 3.5 k. How much more would I be looking at in vat if I was to bring it down.
Also, what's the Toyota auris( I think it's called) like in relation to the yaris.
Also is a cartel check worth the €35?

According to the vrt calculator, a 2006 1.0L with 60,000 miles would be around 830 euros, however I've heard people being charged a lot more or less on the day.

Just factor in the petrol costs and AA car check or whatever it's called up there.

It might not be worth it going north.

Even here you need to get the car checked, usually cartel or the likes will have an option of inspection. Well worth it.

hawkelady

What's the difference between the yaris and the aygo ??
If the consensus is the sirion 's are hard to beat then I'll look further into locating one for a test .
Thanks

JohnBoy26

hawkelady wrote: »

What's the difference between the yaris and the aygo ??
If the consensus is the sirion 's are hard to beat then I'll look further into locating one for a test .
Thanks

The Aygo is a smaller car than both the Sirion and Yaris and imo isn't as well built as either.

Aygo


Sirion

Tea 1000

The Aygo is small alright but is certainly well built and will be very reliable, and popular to sell on. Fun to drive too. Sirion is decent too, a lot less horrific looking than it's predecessor!

gurramok

Don't touch the '05 Micra, they have a little known power steering fault with the electric motor, can set you back 1,800 euro's to fix. The part is very expensive to source, that car is an economic write-off. http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/nissan/micra-k12-2003/

corkgsxr

If you buy a diesel for popping round town dont be surprised when it gives trouble

BostonB

gurramok wrote: »

Don't touch the '05 Micra, they have a little known power steering fault with the electric motor, can set you back 1,800 euro's to fix. The part is very expensive to source, that car is an economic write-off. http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/nissan/micra-k12-2003/

Lot of VW have a similar expensive ABS fault.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/7053551/VW-Golf-ABS-failure.html

Going to make it tricky picking up an older car with these expensive "feature" failures.

George Dalton

gurramok wrote: »

Don't touch the '05 Micra, they have a little known power steering fault with the electric motor, can set you back 1,800 euro's to fix. The part is very expensive to source, that car is an economic write-off. http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/nissan/micra-k12-2003/

That issue is blown out of all proportion and in any case can be sorted out for far less than €1800. I would consider that shape Micra to be a pretty reliable car overall.

BostonB

Deleted User wrote: »

IMO not worth the hassle going to the U.K. Plenty petrols here. Not worth it for only 8 k miles a year.

My comment was following yours about you'd buy the diesel not for economics but for the nicer drive.

George Dalton

BostonB wrote: »

Lot of VW have a similar expensive ABS fault.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/7053551/VW-Golf-ABS-failure.html

Going to make it tricky picking up an older car with these expensive "feature" failures.

That issue is also blown out of proportion and can be sorted out for €450.

Lads there is no such thing is the perfect car. No matter what car you suggest someone will have something negative to say about it.

gurramok

George Dalton wrote: »

That issue is blown out of all proportion and in any case can be sorted out for far less than €1800. I would consider that shape Micra to be a pretty reliable car overall.

Maybe for you, too much of a risk to take with such a high repair bill for such a low value car. The ABS module problem is quite widespread http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/nissan/micra-k12-2003/?section=bad

A buyer should walk away from that car.

BostonB

George Dalton wrote: »

That issue is also blown out of proportion and can be sorted out for €450.

Lads there is no such thing is the perfect car. No matter what car you suggest someone will have something negative to say about it.

450 is still a nasty surprise.

In the UK VW covered it as a recall, not so in Ireland. I was lucky, car was still under a garage warranty when it went.

pred racer

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The Aygo is a smaller car than both the Sirion and Yaris and imo isn't as well built as either.

Aygo
]

I drove a rental Aygo for a month, and I cant think of one good thing to say about it.

3 cylinder engine......horrible
Interior.....horrible
Drive......horrible.
Entrance to a truck filled french motorway......scary!
It didnt even have good mpg, because you had to rev the nuts off it to go anywhere.
I'd never pay money for one, and would think twice before taking one for free!

George Dalton

BostonB wrote: »

450 is still a nasty surprise.

It is, but as I already posted there is no such thing as the perfect car. The same ABS unit is fitted to Honda Accords and if the pressure sensor fails in one of those you are looking at over €2000.

George Dalton

gurramok wrote: »

Maybe for you, too much of a risk to take with such a high repair bill for such a low value car.

What is the repair cost if you suffer power steering failure in an 05 Micra? Don't say €1800 because that is simply incorrect.

CJhaughey

Aygo's snap the water pump belt.
The metal housing that holds the bearing flexes and the impeller bearing seizes and stops the pulley.
Belt snaps then.
Its a known problem and the replacement pumps are all alloy not steel bodied like the factory Aisin ones.

gurramok

George Dalton wrote: »

What is the repair cost if you suffer power steering failure in an 05 Micra? Don't say €1800 because that is simply incorrect.

Thats the Nissan Stealer quote using a new part(electric motor) which they say will only fit the car. A garage can do it half the price with a reconditioned part, that's 900 quid right there gone. Lots of horror stories on the cost of this particular repair all over Europe http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=59770 http://www.ecutesting.com/nissan_micra_k12_eps__electric.html

George Dalton

gurramok wrote: »

Thats the Nissan Stealer quote using a new part(electric motor) which they say will only fit the car. A garage can do it half the price with a reconditioned part, that's 900 quid right there gone. Lots of horror stories on the cost of this particular repair all over Europe http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=59770 http://www.ecutesting.com/nissan_micra_k12_eps__electric.html

How common a failure is it on a % basis would you say? How many Micra power steering system failures have you personally seen and repaired?

JohnBoy26

pred racer wrote: »

I drove a rental Aygo for a month, and I cant think of one good thing to say about it.

3 cylinder engine......horrible
Interior.....horrible
Drive......horrible.
Entrance to a truck filled french motorway......scary!
It didnt even have good mpg, because you had to rev the nuts off it to go anywhere.
I'd never pay money for one, and would think twice before taking one for free!

I agree with you, They are a very flimsy car imo.

gurramok

George Dalton wrote: »

How common a failure is it on a % basis would you say? How many Micra power steering system failures have you personally seen and repaired?

I don't have the stats! It would help if Nissan actually acknowledged the issue.

A relative of mine has a 05 Micra and has had both the power steering problem and the airbag module problem along with a starter motor failure as significant repairs that had to be carried out in the lifetime of ownership. The power steering failure stuck out as a massive bill for a car thats maybe worth 3k-4k in today's market.

The car for a prospective buyer is too costly to repair with that huge risk hanging over the buyer. If somebody owns one of those Micras, get rid of it before it becomes a financial nightmare.

Viper_JB

Not exactly a 1 liter but a bit more fun or even the non sport 1.2 version.... http://www.carzone.ie/search/Fiat/500/1.4-16V-/34313609483350470/advert?channel=CARS

George Dalton

gurramok wrote: »

I don't have the stats! It would help if Nissan actually acknowledged the issue.

A relative of mine has a 05 Micra and has had both the power steering problem and the airbag module problem along with a starter motor failure as significant repairs that had to be carried out in the lifetime of ownership. The power steering failure stuck out as a massive bill for a car thats maybe worth 3k-4k in today's market.

The car for a prospective buyer is too costly to repair with that huge risk hanging over the buyer. If somebody owns one of those Micras, get rid of it before it becomes a financial nightmare.

Just because your relative was unlucky and encountered the problem does not mean that every Micra owner in the country will suffer the same fate. Neither you, I or honestjohn can tell what the chances of encountering the problem are. So you can't actually say that a Micra owner has a "huge risk" hanging over them because you have no way of knowing how large the risk is.

You can name any car you like and someone will have a horror story to relate about some issue they encountered that cost a lot of money to get sorted. As I already posted in this thread there is no such thing as the perfect car that will never break down, this is particularly true when it comes to cars that are 8 years old because at that stage literally anything can happen.

There has been a lot of talk in this thread recommending a Yaris which is a very good car but I have seen gearboxes and timing chains fail on them from time to time. If you are stupid enough to bring a 2005 Yaris with a gearbox problem to a Toyota dealer then you are in for just as big a repair bill as if you brought a 2005 Micra to Nissan to remedy a power steering failure.

BostonB

pred racer wrote: »

I drove a rental Aygo for a month, and I cant think of one good thing to say about it.

3 cylinder engine......horrible
Interior.....horrible
Drive......horrible.
Entrance to a truck filled french motorway......scary!
It didnt even have good mpg, because you had to rev the nuts off it to go anywhere.
I'd never pay money for one, and would think twice before taking one for free!

I think it might depends what you are used to, and are comparing it with. Its meant to a minimalist no frill basics car. Its not a super mini in the style of a yaris or a polo. Even if you compare something like an K11 98/99 Micra to it. The Micra is much better in a number of areas. The Aygo would be much closer in spirit to the K10 Micra.

gurramok

George Dalton wrote: »

Just because your relative was unlucky and encountered the problem does not mean that every Micra owner in the country will suffer the same fate. Neither you, I or honestjohn can tell what the chances of encountering the problem are. So you can't actually say that a Micra owner has a "huge risk" hanging over them because you have no way of knowing how large the risk is.

Google is your friend, from doing a bit of research its a common problem. All buyers should look up the motoring websites for advice before purchasing any car.

George Dalton wrote: »

You can name any car you like and someone will have a horror story to relate about some issue they encountered that cost a lot of money to get sorted. As I already posted in this thread there is no such thing as the perfect car that will never break down, this is particularly true when it comes to cars that are 8 years old because at that stage literally anything can happen.

There has been a lot of talk in this thread recommending a Yaris which is a very good car but I have seen gearboxes and timing chains fail on them from time to time. If you are stupid enough to bring a 2005 Yaris with a gearbox problem to a Toyota dealer then you are in for just as big a repair bill as if you brought a 2005 Micra to Nissan to remedy a power steering failure.

If the exact same issue is reported by other owners of a particular car, its a common problem. Age has really nothing to do with it if the car has been manufactured with cheap quality parts to begin with.

George Dalton

gurramok wrote: »

Google is your friend, from doing a bit of research its a common problem. All buyers should look up the motoring websites for advice before purchasing any car.

I don't rely on google for my information. I prefer my own experience to imbalanced and inaccurate information posted by unknowledgeable, biased and misguided people online.

BostonB

George Dalton wrote: »

Just because your relative was unlucky and encountered the problem does not mean that every Micra owner in the country will suffer the same fate. Neither you, I or honestjohn can tell what the chances of encountering the problem are. ...

There's a lot of common problems on modern cars, like PDF issues, ABS, or Intermediate Shaft Bearing failures, that don't seem to be in the mainstream media. Only on forums and smaller websites. Yet I seem to know at least one person who has had one of these problems. Either I'm just lucky, or it is far more common than its appearing in the mainstream press. I wonder do publishers fear mentioning it as they have no way of proving how common it is, and thus leave themselves open to being sued.

gurramok

George Dalton wrote: »

I don't rely on google for my information. I prefer my own experience to imbalanced and inaccurate information posted by unknowledgeable, biased and misguided people online.

Well, you have praised that particular car as reliable when its not from my personal experience and the evidence is on the impartial motoring websites that back my claim up.

BostonB

George Dalton wrote: »

...You can name any car you like and someone will have a horror story to relate about some issue they encountered that cost a lot of money to get sorted. As I already posted in this thread there is no such thing as the perfect car that will never break down, this is particularly true when it comes to cars that are 8 years old because at that stage literally anything can happen....

Its we had a 14yr old Micra in the family that failed the NCT on the indicators had faded from orange to clear. Which made me realise we've never changed any of the bulbs on it. But we had to change bulbs a lot more frequently on the newer cars in the family. In fact we've done more repairs (in general) on the newer cars.

I think there was a sweet point around 1990 for mechanical reliability and electronic reliability. (well on basic cars) . The problem now isn't the reliability as such. Its the cost/complexity of repairs.

George Dalton

BostonB wrote: »

There's a lot of common problems on modern cars, like PDF issues, ABS, or Intermediate Shaft Bearing failures, that don't seem to be in the mainstream media. Only on forums and smaller websites. Yet I seem to know at least one person who has had one of these problems. Either I'm just lucky, or it is far more common than its appearing in the mainstream press. I wonder do publishers fear mentioning it as they have no way of proving how common it is, and thus leave themselves open to being sued.

There are plenty of problems that are equally as common in our experience as those which are well covered on forums but for some reason are not reported to the same extent. So you will not find them through google. You simply cannot make your car selection based on a google search and postings on forums by armchair experts. Doing this would imply the assumption that everything you read on the internet is true which it obviously isn't.

To follow the logic to its conclusion if you google a certain car and honestjohn doesn't have anything particularly bad to say about it then the implication is that it is a perfect car and won't give trouble. Which is nonsense. I didn't post in this thread to cause an argument, I am just trying to make the point that any car can suffer problems and that there is no way you can recommend an 8 year old car to somebody and say that they won't get any big repair bills with it, no matter what kind of car it is.

George Dalton

gurramok wrote: »

Well, you have praised that particular car as reliable when its not from my personal experience and the evidence is on the impartial motoring websites that back my claim up.

Your experience is of one car, hardly a representative sample.

Car problems on the impartial website in question are almost always blown completely out of proportion. To make matters worse people then read about it on the impartial website, then post on forums as if they are a leading authority on the subject and all of a sudden a minor issue with a certain car becomes an epidemic in the eyes of many people.

gurramok

George Dalton wrote: »

Your experience is of one car, hardly a representative sample.

Car problems on the impartial website in question are almost always blown completely out of proportion. To make matters worse people then read about it on the impartial website, then post on forums as if they are a leading authority on the subject and all of a sudden a minor issue with a certain car becomes an epidemic in the eyes of many people.

How do you explain hundreds of random posters from many countries who are just ordinary motorists(not armchair experts) reporting the exact same fault in the exact same car then? That to me along with personal experience shows the car has a known particular problem which is not known to their drivers en masse. Media attention should be brought to that particular issue, thats what forced Toyota to acknowledge their famous problems in recalls.

I wouldn't class a 900quid repair due to a manufacturers defect as minor.

BostonB

George Dalton wrote: »

There are plenty of problems that are equally as common in our experience as those which are well covered on forums but for some reason are not reported to the same extent. So you will not find them through google. You simply cannot make your car selection based on a google search and postings on forums by armchair experts. Doing this would imply the assumption that everything you read on the internet is true which it obviously isn't.

To follow the logic to its conclusion if you google a certain car and honestjohn doesn't have anything particularly bad to say about it then the implication is that it is a perfect car and won't give trouble. Which is nonsense. I didn't post in this thread to cause an argument, I am just trying to make the point that any car can suffer problems and that there is no way you can recommend an 8 year old car to somebody and say that they won't get any big repair bills with it, no matter what kind of car it is.

You'd have a point, except that I'm seeing the same things with family friends, and my local mechanic is saying the same things.

Of course often the information on the web is out of day. A 1000 repair may have become a 200 repair since the info went on the web. Due to alternative parts or technical solutions.