Neymar - Does he HAVE to move to Europe?

Jarrod

The direction that the Francis Jeffers thread took got me thinking about something. Lets say Neymar doesn't move to Europe, could he still go on to be one of the great players of this generation? He has scored goals at domestic, continental and international level and looks, from what I've seen of him, to be a supremely talented player.

I think that were he to carry on his current form at Santos and at international level for the next 10-15 years then yes, he would have to be considered one of the greats of this generation, if not of all time. I ask particularly in light of the recent friendly with England. I noted a number of pundits commenting along the lines that he essentially didn't look able to cope with the physicality and they implied that until he moved to Europe he was still unproven. I see no reason as to why he needs to prove himself in Europe.

Granted were he to dominate with Santos but never shine at a World Cup then obviously he would still have doubters but were he to continue his current form and light up the next WC, then surely not playing in Europe is some what redundant.

So, what do you think, if Neymar never moves to Europe could he still be considered a great player? (Assuming, that he carries on his current form)

full_irish

Jarrod wrote: »

Lets say Neymar doesn't move to Europe, could he still go on to be one of the great players of this generation?

No. Simply, if he doesn't test himself against the best players on a regular basis its hard to consider them for one of the "greats of this generation".

CSF

The Brazilian league would have to improve immensely.

batistuta9

Of course he could be considered a great player if he never leaves brazil

He's already considered one of the greatest young players in the world

If he continues what he doing, does in the the cope libratdores/sudamericana, world club cup, copa america & world cups then what's the problem calling him a great player

Seans_Username

If he can perform at the world cup then I don't think he has to go to Europe. That's probably the highest level there is (albeit not played as often).

In a way I hope he goes to Europe and does brilliant. Just to shut up some of the ignorant pundits who think the Brazilian league has the worst defenders in the history of football, thus making Neymar not as good as he is made out to be.

frostie500 made an excellent point here in the Francis Jeffers thread

maximoose

Seans_Username wrote: »

If he can perform at the world cup then I don't think he has to go to Europe. That's probably the highest level there is (albeit not played as often).

Champs League > World Cup IMO.

Seans_Username wrote:

In a way I hope he goes to Europe and does brilliant.

I know what you mean, and I kind of agree. But on the other hand, I'd kind of like to see him flop badly to shut up the OMG WONDERKID pundits at the other end of the spectrum.

PhlegmyMoses

This tread got me thinking about the next World Cup. Only 15 months away. Time flies.

Corholio

I'm sure he'd be considered a very very good player if he stayed in Brazil. But Europe is where it's at, whether people like it or not. That's not to say the Brazilian league isn't good, I watch quite a bit of it and it certainly isn't as poor as some people make out, however it wouldn't be on a par with some of the European leagues. Just because people say the Brazilian league isn't great doesn't mean they are saying it's crap, that sometimes get's lost when talking about it.

batistuta9

Seans_Username wrote: »

In a way I hope he goes to Europe and does brilliant. Just to shut up some of the ignorant pundits who think the Brazilian league has the worst defenders in the history of football, thus making Neymar not as good as he is made out to be.

frostie500 made an excellent point here in the Francis Jeffers thread

It's the state leagues they're probably on about, he has 47 goals in 65 appearances in it, while in the Brasileirão he's got 54 in 102 apps.

also regards the frostie500 point i don't think he's staying in Brazil for development, the reason Neymar's staying in Brazil for now is $. A brazilian guy on the guardian podcast not too long ago was saying he'll not leave to after the WC, he's got about 5 major sponsors and is a real poster boy/icon there
Santos only pay 15% i think he said of his wages too (this might of been 50% hard to make out with the accent) & waived their cut of his image rights

godtabh

I wonder what he earns there and how it compares to English/Spanish/German/Italin leagues?

Jarrod

Doesn't he have a son in Brazil too? I'm open to correction on that but I think I read it somewhere.

Seans_Username

maximoose wrote: »

Champs League > World Cup IMO.

True in some ways, one being that players are more familiar with each other, and play better together. And more games in the tournament too. But some people will only accept Messi as the best player in the world when he wins a world cup. But that's probably because he's won everything else...

maximoose wrote: »

I know what you mean, and I kind of agree. But on the other hand, I'd kind of like to see him flop badly to shut up the OMG WONDERKID pundits at the other end of the spectrum.

Fanboys shouting about the next best thing does wreck my head. But I'd rather see the ignorant doubters proven wrong than the annoying fanboys proven right.

batistuta9 wrote: »

also regards the frostie500 point i don't think he's staying in Brazil for development, the reason Neymar's staying in Brazil for now is $. A brazilian guy on the guardian podcast not too long ago was saying he'll not leave to after the WC, he's got about 5 major sponsors and is a real poster boy/icon there
Santos only pay 15% i think he said of his wages too (this might of been 50% hard to make out with the accent) & waived their cut of his image rights

Even if he is staying there for the ca$h it doesn't hurt to stay there for a year or two so he isn't thrown into the deep end at his age.

batistuta9

godtabh wrote: »

I wonder what he earns there and how it compares to English/Spanish/German/Italin leagues?

for some reason 11 million a year comes to mind

Oat23

batistuta9 wrote: »

It's the state leagues they're probably on about, he has 47 goals in 65 appearances in it, while in the Brasileirão he's got 54 in 102 apps.

also regards the frostie500 point i don't think he's staying in Brazil for development, the reason Neymar's staying in Brazil for now is $. A brazilian guy on the guardian podcast not too long ago was saying he'll not leave to after the WC, he's got about 5 major sponsors and is a real poster boy/icon there
Santos only pay 15% i think he said of his wages too (this might of been 50% hard to make out with the accent) & waived their cut of his image rights

15% of his overall income comes from Santos. He makes more from sponsorships for Nike and other companies than he does for actually playing, so couples with the fact Santos only pay a fraction of his wages, that is unsurprising.

He was earning as much as R$20m per year as of last year.

godtabh

batistuta9 wrote: »

for some reason 11 million a year comes to mind

Not bad. He could get more in wages in Europe but would he get the same sponsorship deals?

I think he'll move on after the world cup. I think a move now could be bad in a world cup year. What if he doesn't settle? After a good world cup he could join any club he wants. An average world cup,still gives him options

batistuta9

Oatesy23 wrote: »

15% of his overall income comes from Santos. He makes more from sponsorships for Nike and other companies than he does for actually playing, so couples with the fact Santos only pay a fraction of his wages, that is unsurprising.

He was earning as much as R$20m per year as of last year.

that's probably it then, i remember him talking about the 15% and Santos and sponsor money

batistuta9

godtabh wrote: »

Not bad. He could get more in wages in Europe but would he get the same sponsorship deals?

I think he'll move on after the world cup. I think a move now could be bad in a world cup year. What if he doesn't settle? After a good world cup he could join any club he wants. An average world cup,still gives him options

scratch that 11 million, if he's getting 20mil Brazilian as Oatesy23 it's about €8.5mil - 163k a week roughly

I don't know what way the sponsor deals from the Brazilians would go if he's in europe + atm it's the big build up for them to the WC so that probably has some impact

EDIT: Not bad :pac: i'd soon take it

MaroonAndGreen

He has to move to Europe if he wants to be considered one of the greats.. it has to be seen that he can regularly produce good form against the best players!

gnfnrhead

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

He has to move to Europe if he wants to be considered one of the greats.. it has to be seen that he can regularly produce good form against the best players!

Doesnt the World Cup etc do that?

OctavarIan

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Doesnt the World Cup etc do that?

Not exactly regular is it :pac:

And it's totally possible for average players to have a few excellent games in the World Cup and for proven world class players to have a bad tournament. The World Cup is not on its own an indicator of anything. I still laugh at the rush to go out and buy Senegal players a few World Cups back; I think every one of them flopped at the big clubs.

Jimmy Iovine

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Doesnt the World Cup etc do that?

Producing on a consistent basis in one of the top leagues in Europe and in the Champions League is far better than doing it in the World Cup.

From a status viewpoint the World Cup will always be king. If you want to be recognised as one of the worlds greatest, then you need to be doing it on a weekly basis against some of the best in the world.

Basically, to be mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo he has to move to Europe. Doing it in 5/6 games every 4 years doesn't cut it for me.

full_irish

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Producing on a consistent basis in one of the top leagues in Europe and in the Champions League is far better than doing it in the World Cup.

From a status viewpoint the World Cup will always be king. If you want to be recognised as one of the worlds greatest, then you need to be doing it on a weekly basis against some of the best in the world.

Basically, to be mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo he has to move to Europe. Doing it in 5/6 games every 4 years doesn't cut it for me.

Exactly - if you based it solely on performing for your country in tournaments then it can give a skewed view of who really is the best e.g Baros in the Euros

RayCon

Brazil is one of the emerging economic growth markets hence he can stay in his home league because there's money to keep him there. This can only be a good thing for Brazillian football and so what if doesn't end up playing in Europe.

In a reverse type of way, Was George Best any less a player cos he never played in a a World Cup ? ... or Ryan Giggs etc ....

If, over the course of his career, Neymar goes on to prove himself at Brazillian League and International level ... whats what wrong with that ?

Talent > Football snobbery

Jimmy Iovine

RayCon wrote: »

In a reverse type of way, Was George Best any less a player cos he never played in a a World Cup ? ... or Ryan Giggs etc ....

You can't even begin to compare Neymar's situation to that of the other two. If you do try to, then you don't understand the argument at all.

Brazil can improve all it wants over the next decade but it will still never have the prestige of one of the top four leagues in Europe.

I have no doubt that he is the real deal. He is tearing the defences apart in Brazil.

Why not come over to Europe? I hope he at least considers the move, even if it is after the 2014 World Cup.

Anyway, the Brazilian national team aren't exactly in the best shape at the moment. God only knows the amount of pressure they'll be under next year. Will Neymar be able to live up to it all? It'll be his stage to show the whole world just how good he is.

~Rebel~

Without ever playing in Europe he can certainly manage to be called "great".

But.

He'll never be seriously considered amongst the greatest of his generation, as that will simply fall to those who are doing the same things consistently at a higher level.

We can call Henrik Larsson great, we can speculate about what his career might have been had he spent his peak years in a tougher league, but we can't really call him one of the greatest strikers in the world at the time, as we simply don't know how he would have done playing week in week out at the highest level.

IMO for someone to be considered amongst the very best in the game, they have to be producing regularly in one of the top leagues in the world, and champions league.

DazMarz

It's not football snobbery at all. As someone already mentioned, the Campeonato Brasileiro Série A can improve all it wants, but it will never overtake (or even draw level with) La Liga, Bundesliga, Premier League and Serie A. Even Ligue 1, Primeira Liga, Eredivisie and Russian Premier League are of a high enough standard to be considered better or on a par with the Brazilian league.

Neymar is the real deal. But to me, it would show a complete lack of proper ambition to not want to play in Europe. Copa Libertadores is not anywhere near the standard of the Champions League and the Champions League is the pinnacle of club football. Every club wants to compete in it. Every player wants to play in it. Everyone wants to win it. It is so prestigious.

Apart from Péle and Zico, there were very few other South American players who are touted as amongst the all-time greats that didn't play for a portion of their career in Europe, most of them playing their best in Europe. Look at contemporary players from South America who were (or are) considered great players: Messi, Tevez, Kaka, Di Maria, Aguero, Lavezzi, Higuain... and others who had huge impacts but are now retired in the last few years or have gone back to South America: Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Ronaldinho, Deco, Pato, ETC.

The list goes on.

Truly great players will want to play against the best in the world. At the moment, the best players in the world are localised in Europe. The most prestigious club football tournaments are held in Europe. The best leagues in the world are in Europe. Anyone who says otherwise... I don't want to insult you, but come on. Seriously? Which do you think players would prefer to win? The Brazilian League and the Copa Libertadores or a top flight league in Europe and the Champions League. It's a no-brainer.

To be the best, you have to consistently prove that you are the best. Week-in, week-out. Against the best players in the world, on the biggest stages in the world. Even Neymar's own agent is quoted as saying: "He wants to become the best player in the world. The chances of him doing that while playing in Brazil are zero". And very true that is.

roanoke

DazMarz wrote: »

Apart from Péle and Zico, there were very few other South American players who are touted as amongst the all-time greats that didn't play for a portion of their career in Europe,

Agreed. Also, I think if Pele and Zico were around today they would also be playing in Europe too. The game has just changed in that regard. Back then the pool of global talent much less centralised than it is today. But one just has to look at Brazils 2010 world cup squads to see the change. During Peles time the entire Brazil Squad was home based, during Zicos maybe one or two Europe players. However in 2010 20 out of the 23 were with European clubs and other 3 had already spent a significant portion of their careers with European clubs too.

eagle eye

DazMarz wrote: »

Apart from Péle and Zico, there were very few other South American players who are touted as amongst the all-time greats that didn't play for a portion of their career in Europe, most of them playing their best in Europe.

Zico spent a couple of years in Serie A.

Liam O

People are obsessed with greatness, maybe not every player wants to be the best in the world. If I was a pro footballer at the level of that I'd play wherever would offer me the best standard of life. Obviously trophies and accolades would be great but at the end of the day it's a job and if you can be paid millions at to stay at home and play or slightly more millions to move somewhere else is a personal decision. One I'm not sure I'd be able to say which way I would go with it. When he looks at the likes of Robinho, Adriano etc. fared with moving you'd have to seriously consider whether the move was worth it.

losthorizon

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Without ever playing in Europe he can certainly manage to be called "great".

But.

He'll never be seriously considered amongst the greatest of his generation, as that will simply fall to those who are doing the same things consistently at a higher level.

We can call Henrik Larsson great, we can speculate about what his career might have been had he spent his peak years in a tougher league, but we can't really call him one of the greatest strikers in the world at the time, as we simply don't know how he would have done playing week in week out at the highest level.

IMO for someone to be considered amongst the very best in the game, they have to be producing regularly in one of the top leagues in the world, and champions league.

Yes I always thought Pele was crap.

As for Garrincha pfft

And Socrates my favourite player of all time played all his career except one in Brazil when he decided to go to Ialy where he was a success but decided to come home for lifestyle and political reasons.


He played for the 1982 Brazilian team an amazing team. Loads of the tead played in Brazil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZxvYy5-ekI

Its fair to say that since then more Brazilian players play abroad but the Brazilian league has restructured itself and less emphasis is given to the state leagues and more to the national league which is a good thing. So if anything the Brazilian league has improved overall but the stars have just left in the main.

For instance if some South American nations were in Europe I have no doubt that there teams would be in a shout for the CL. Could you say the same thing for european teams in the Liberadatores? Probably. But would they win? I doubt it.

DazMarz

eagle eye wrote: »

Zico spent a couple of years in Serie A.

He did too... forgot about that. But that fact only helps my point. Ha. Cheers.

Forgot he had played a couple of seasons for Udinese.

764dak

Football snobbery at its finest.

DazMarz

How so, may I ask? It is an absolute fact that Europe holds the best of everything that the football world has to offer; players, clubs, facilities... everything.

Why is is football snobbery to state that fact? And that most players reach the pinnacle of their career while playing in Europe? Or that the players best recognised as the greatest ever have almost without exception plied their trade at a European club?

In the past, maybe the gulf was not so wide (see Brazilian teams from the past and so on). But now? The gulf is huge. Why do you think all the South American (and Asian, African, North American, Australian, etc. ad infinitum) super stars come to Europe? Because it holds the best of everything and the chance to shine on the world's biggest footballing stage.

Not to belabour a point, but this is a direct quote from Neymar's agent: "He [Neymar] wants to become the best player in the world. The chances of him doing that while playing in Brazil are zero."

Leaving aside the fact that Barcelona paid medical bills and prevented him from being a stunted midget, would Lionel Messi have become the greatest player in the world (possibly ever) had he remained in Argentina with Newell's Old Boys or whoever, regardless of any medical issues? Would he fúck. Not a chance.

Europe is where success, money, exposure and power lies in the footballing world. And that is unlikely to change in the near (or even distant) future.

eagle eye

The only thing that Europe has that matters is exposure as far as being acclaimed goes. Money is the reason these players come to this continent.

Personally I don't think you have to come to Europe to be the best in the world. If you do it regularly outside of Europe and clubs are constantly looking to sign you and you do it at the World Cup then for me thats enough.

And the World Cup is the biggest stage by far. Its got way more people watching it than some yearly competition.

Winston Payne

The last World Cup wasn't better than any of the Champions Leagues that have come after it since. You could say the same about Germany. And South Korea/Japan. The standard is higher in European club football. Standard>>>>>audience too, while we're at it.

eagle eye

Winston Payne wrote: »

The last World Cup wasn't better than any of the Champions Leagues that have come after it since. You could say the same about Germany. And South Korea/Japan. The standard is higher in European club football. Standard>>>>>audience too, while we're at it.

Are you saying that only Europeans who watch lots of European football will decide who the greats are?

The World Cup is the biggest stage where more people watch football. Its on that stage that it will be decided by the masses who is great and who is not.

George Best is talked about in Ireland and England as one of the greats but not on the world stage because he never played at a World Cup.

Clearly club teams will play at a higher standard because the players play more often together.

Winston Payne

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you saying that only Europeans who watch lots of European football will decide who the greats are?

Damn that Champions League, which is unavailable to view outside of Europe.

eagle eye wrote: »

The World Cup is the biggest stage where more people watch football. Its on that stage that it will be decided by the masses who is great and who is not.

Not too sure about how common this view is at all. The greatest concentration of talent is in Europe, it's home to best leagues. You do "the masses" a disservice by assuming that they will solely judge on the performance of players at a World Cup to see if they're great or not. A player may underperform at a tournament due to injury, or because of incompetence on the part of a manager. This doesn't detract from previous performances. Consistency of performance over an extended period of time in a demanding league holds more stock than anything else. Neymar would have to do something absolutely extraordinary and something which he has shown no signs of doing so far, like inspiring Brazil to victory in the tournament to be in the running to be judged as a great player.

eagle eye

Winston Payne wrote: »

Damn that Champions League, which is unavailable to view outside of Europe.




Not too sure about how common this view is at all. The greatest concentration of talent is in Europe, it's home to best leagues. You do "the masses" a disservice by assuming that they will solely judge on the performance of players at a World Cup to see if they're great or not. A player may underperform at a tournament due to injury, or because of incompetence on the part of a manager. This doesn't detract from previous performances. Consistency of performance over an extended period of time in a demanding league holds more stock than anything else. Neymar would have to do something absolutely extraordinary and something which he has shown no signs of doing so far, like inspiring Brazil to victory in the tournament to be in the running to be judged as a great player.

I don't do the masses a disservice. When people bring up the great strikers and I mention Hugo Sanchez you should see the amount of blank faces I look at. And I'm talking to people who are old enough to remember him. Why the blank faces? Because he never did it at a World Cup and they don't really follow other leagues. As it happens he doesn't have a European Cup either. That shouldn't preclude him from being hailed as a great player though but people don't remember him.

Winston Payne

That's their issue and their ignorance. There's far more knowledge and exposure of players and leagues these days. Similarly, I think there's not as much stock put into the World Cup as the barometer of greatness globally, and rightly so.

Ferris_Bueller

Can't say I know too much about the Brazilian league, but is there that much of a difference between that and a lot of European leagues? The Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A would obviously be of a higher standard, but I wonder where would the Brazilian league, or certain clubs, rank in comparison to other leagues in Europe. Without actually seeing any games it would seem as if their league is improving, more and more players seem to be staying in the league (Neymar, Ganso, Damiao) and more players seem to be going back to Brazil too (Pato, Renato Augusto, Ronaldinho), combined with the amount of players who come to Europe and are very successful, I wonder how much of a difference in quality there is? Does anyone watch enough games to have an answer to this?

The national team also seems to call up quite a lot of home based players, which would indicate that the standard is pretty good if they are good enough to play for Brazil. I would love to watch and read a bit more on Brazilian football but find it very difficult to find good websites, if anyone has any I'd be delighted if you could pass them on!

To answer the question though, I think Neymar would have to move to Europe to prove he is on the same level as Ronaldo and Messi. Maybe he is unfortunate that he is around at the same time as those two, but even if he had a stormer of a World Cup next year it's a very short time frame to judge a player on, look back at Arshavin in Euro 2008.

~Rebel~

losthorizon wrote: »

Yes I always thought Pele was crap.

As for Garrincha pfft

A completely unrealistic comparison. The game, and the world, have changed completely since then. That was a time when many of the best South American players stayed in South America. That's no longer the case. The best players, and the highest level of competition is very firmly now in Europe.

There's a reason you had to look back that far to try to find similar examples.

eagle eye

I watch quite a bit of South American soccer. I watch a lot of the Copa Libertadores too. I'd be of the opinion that the top sides in Brazil and Argentina are capable of playing against the top sides in Europe.

I'm talking about the likes of Internacional, Conrinthians, Sao Paolo, Cruizero, Gremio, Palmeiras, Boca, Velez, Estudiantes and Independiente(if they ever get their act together again). There are also a couple of powerful clubs in Uruguay and other countries.

eagle eye

Winston Payne wrote: »

That's their issue and their ignorance. There's far more knowledge and exposure of players and leagues these days. Similarly, I think there's not as much stock put into the World Cup as the barometer of greatness globally, and rightly so.

If when Messi retires he has not won a World Cup or at least reached a final you will see how that goes.

losthorizon

~Rebel~ wrote: »

A completely unrealistic comparison. The game, and the world, have changed completely since then. That was a time when many of the best South American players stayed in South America. That's no longer the case. The best players, and the highest level of competition is very firmly now in Europe.

There's a reason you had to look back that far to try to find similar examples.

Actually I dont think thats true I just took probably the worlds greatest player as an example but Brazil has always exported players and probably always will. However many of those who go are often second rate especially those who go to some of the Portugese clubs and Eastern European and Balkan clubs. Ironically then its the better players who need to be tempted by big Transfer fees.

The reorganisation of the Brazilian league as well has plainly lifted standards as well in the last few years and has pushed back the state leagues to a second tier competition which is what Brazil needed. No more would you have the Goiás (as an example) state league running for seven months of the year and then trying to shoehorn the national league in. And under that system huge clubs would be facing tiny clubs in a league system - it was daft.


One poster claimed that the Dutch and Russian leagues were better than the Brazilian league which is plainly crazy.

losthorizon

eagle eye wrote: »

I watch quite a bit of South American soccer. I watch a lot of the Copa Libertadores too. I'd be of the opinion that the top sides in Brazil and Argentina are capable of playing against the top sides in Europe.

I'm talking about the likes of Internacional, Conrinthians, Sao Paolo, Cruizero, Gremio, Palmeiras, Boca, Velez, Estudiantes and Independiente(if they ever get their act together again). There are also a couple of powerful clubs in Uruguay and other countries.

Fair point and even at that you are only scratching at the surface of the top clubs in South America.

I was in Chile for 2 and a half weeks about 15 years ago and I can tell you the clubs are huge especially Colo Colo who have won the Libertadores.

Its good to see O'Higgins back in the top flight over there.

http://www.ohigginsfc.cl/

IvySlayer

Bumping this thread as there are reports Real Madrid will pay 100m for Neymar according to Marca...it sounds mad...but it is Real Madrid.

losthorizon

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

The national team also seems to call up quite a lot of home based players, which would indicate that the standard is pretty good if they are good enough to play for Brazil. I would love to watch and read a bit more on Brazilian football but find it very difficult to find good websites, if anyone has any I'd be delighted if you could pass them on!

With regards to websites I dont know but I would recommend the magazine World Soccer. It covers all the leagues in South America and all the Leagues in Europe too giving more space obviously to the major ones like Spain, Italy, Brazil , Germany, Argentina etc.

As a LOI fan I find it good and it helps to remind me that all us football fans are part of the same family which you find out anyway when you go abroad for european games (except Sweden:().

jive

eagle eye wrote: »

I watch quite a bit of South American soccer. I watch a lot of the Copa Libertadores too. I'd be of the opinion that the top sides in Brazil and Argentina are capable of playing against the top sides in Europe.

I'm talking about the likes of Internacional, Conrinthians, Sao Paolo, Cruizero, Gremio, Palmeiras, Boca, Velez, Estudiantes and Independiente(if they ever get their act together again). There are also a couple of powerful clubs in Uruguay and other countries.

Some of the above might be capable, Corinthians most likely, but overall the quality is definitely worse. The teams you listed have a few really good individual players but the standard of the copa libertadores is nowhere near the standard in the champions league. I watch a bit of it too (when I've money on it) but tactically and intensity wise it is nowhere near Europe; technically they're good but that's expected of South Americans. They might be competitive in the way that BATE, Cluj, Anderlecht and Zenit are but wouldn't do any damage in Europe

Turtyturd

IvySlayer wrote: »

Bumping this thread as there are reports Real Madrid will pay 100m for Neymar according to Marca...it sounds mad...but it is Real Madrid.

Cue Ronaldo pushing a move to PSG for 101 million.

kryogen

Nope, would have to be 150

Have only seen him play a couple of times but he hasn't looked remotely close to being one of the best in the world any time I've seen him. Robinho had similar hype (albeit not quite the goal record), not convinced thus far.