Anyone help me ID some poo?

tittybiscuits

Apologies for posting scat in my first post, but I'm trying to find out what these could be from. I found them in Rogerstown. The first one is large, I thought it was from a dog but it had no odour and appeared to contain only some vegetable matter, hair and a few insects and worms. It was crumbly but may have been old, and was roughly 30mm in diameter.
The second one looks to me to be some sort of regurgitated pellet, roughly 10mm in diameter consisting mostly of hair. The close up is the only bone I could see, about 25mm long.
Can anyone tell me if I'm on the right track? I can't imagine what sort of mammal the first one could be from, doesn't strike me as fox or otter, which are the only large mammals I know of in the area. If the second one is a bird of prey I wouldn't be surprised as there are plenty of kestrels, buzzards etc. in the area. Any help appreciated! Thanks.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8102/8495479047_e07a4c6fea_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8235/8495478941_18c77870a1_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8232/8495478985_b6e7d68e5c_b.jpg

Mickeroo

I don't know much about droppings but maybe the second one could be from a domestic cat?

swifts need our help!

difficult to tell without a scale. I'm thinking pellet and old fox - dropping not fox

tittybiscuits

Thanks. domestic cat never occured to me but there are a few around here, I think they come from houses nearby they are very tame. Never realised foxes coughed up pellets but it makes sense that they would!
As for the other one, yes I should have something for scale in the shot - it is about 30-35mm in diameter and the top piece is roughly 60mm in length, if that helps. It was about the size of a medium/large dog dropping, struck me as too big for fox or otter but I'm a bit of a novice. It smelled very faintly of plants too - I was told otter and fox droppings have a very strong odour, and any dogdirt I've ever smelled is really vile!

eirator

Otter is really obvious from the smell, it doesn't smell foul, it sort of smells like Jasmine Tea. I've collect 100's of otter spraints and not found one that was too foul to pick up they are also used to mark territory so you'd find them on top of a rock or stone more often than not.

tittybiscuits

Sorry for the late reply eirator, I was away from civilisation for a few days. I'll have to get some jasmine tea and familirise myself with the smell! I was told there was a pretty obvious smell of fish from it, and you'd find fish bones in it if you poked in it. Would that be right?

eirator

I wouldn't say the smell was fishy at all and location would often be the first identification factor for otter. Then obviously the bones you find will depend on what the otter has been eating, frogs are another common food item, but yes you'll normally be able to make out fish bones but sometimes they are so small you need a lens to be sure. I've often noticed the "glitter" of fish scales. Another factor is exposure to the elements, sometimes some the samples I collect are just bones because the rain has washed everything else away (they still have that smell though) and other times the sun and wind has dried them out. I was going to post some pics but google has loads http://www.google.ie/search?q=otter+spraint

Its really quite hard not to find otter spraint if otters are around, on a river for example once you have found the first couple you can quite often work out where the next ones will be, on our river they're mostly on the nearest rock 25m from the last one. If you want to check for otter activity then just clean away a few of the spraints and if otters are around they'll mark the same spot within a couple of days.

tittybiscuits

Thanks and sorry (again) for not replying sooner. Those images on google are great, I've a much better idea of what to be looking for now...