What is wrong with prostitution?

GarIT

In many countries it is either illegal to buy and/or sell sex. I don't know the exact laws in Ireland but I think we are moving towards the criminalisation of purchasing sex.

In your opinion should/why should prostitution be illegal for either party? For the discussion you should assume the prostitute is a consenting adult.

I think that there should be nothing preventing a person from buying or selling sex if that is what they want to do. There are cases where other crimes are being committed for example trafficking, but these crimes already have laws in place to deal with them. I can't see any problem with the act of prostitution itself, therefore I think it is illogical to stop prostitution as a method of preventing other crimes.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

No loyalty cards! Get a free tramp on your tenth stamp.

repsol

Too expensive!

imme

it seems to go hand in hand with people trafficking among other things,
which isn't good.

The Hill Billy

Hey OP, if it works for you - just go for it & to hell with what the rest of us thunk.

who the fug

When man invents utipioa , I will get back to you

Cereal Number

Id love to go to a prostitiute but im afraid of catching something, if there was more regulations

vicwatson

Who said there was anything wrong with it?

movingsucks

What kind of regulations?

jaffacakesyum

It should be legalised so the safety of the women involved can be ensured, and regulated so it brings in some money for the country.

I think anyone who goes to a prostitute and doesn't know for sure the woman is there voluntarily and is actually getting the money, good terms of work etc. needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

ashers22

The idea of people being commodities lures people who want to exploit other people into the trade. And while it might appear to be consenting, she may not be actually enjoying it.

Rabies

GarIT wrote: »

In many countries it is either illegal to buy and/or sell sex. I don't know the exact laws in Ireland but I think we are moving towards the criminalisation of purchasing sex.

In your opinion should/why should prostitution be illegal for either party? For the discussion you should assume the prostitute is a consenting adult.

I think that there should be nothing preventing a person from buying or selling sex if that is what they want to do. There are cases where other crimes are being committed for example trafficking, but these crimes already have laws in place to deal with them. I can't see any problem with the act of prostitution itself, therefore I think it is illogical to stop prostitution as a method of preventing other crimes.

legalise it, tax it, keep it to the outskirts of towns/cities or in designated areas, regular checks by the police and health inspectors, remove the crime side of it, keep it away from residential areas, schools, religious organisations and old cranky people.

What I'm saying is, like the rest of the world where it is legal.

If people want to do it so much, let it be done legally. Banning service isn't going to stop it, just drives it under ground, makes it more seedy as if it wasn't already, and keeps criminal activity high in that area.

P_1

Don't know actually, it's a service that some people are willing to buy and some people are willing to provide.

Only worry is that it offends some people too.

ITS_A_BADGER

It funds criminal gangs and most of the women are being forced into the sex trade by gangs to make money for them, some of the women are kidnapped and some are lured over with the prospects of a job and a home and their passport is taking off them and forced to have sex with strangers and told they will be assalted and they will never see their family or homeland again.


so no there is nothing wrong with prostitution

Johro

GarIT wrote: »

In many countries it is either illegal to buy and/or sell sex. I don't know the exact laws in Ireland but I think we are moving towards the criminalisation of purchasing sex.

I'll have a pound and a half of sex please. No horse, thanks.

hfallada

Even the countries that have legalised it have had huge issues. Such as a I think parts of Spain has just allowed it and a lot of the women in brothels were found to be illegal aliens or trafficked in the country. You can tax it. But the cost of collection I doubt would cover the cost of collection.

Plus in most countries a lot of the prostitutes are drugs users and can spread STIs such as HIV. Plus these women are often pimped out.

Melanoma

Prostitution is something that causes the person hired to feel degraded. As a result they spend money on things like drugs, alcohol and other mind numbing effects. Heroin was given to 14 year olds in the 80's to get them hooked and into it in the inner city Dublin. It's a business of making money out of misery. Sure it would be nice to imagine you could just pay someone for a shag the same way you buy another service. Then it would be great. But in truth it is not rape but it is close to it. Every year prostitutes are beaten often t within an inch of their lives or to death. The younger the better so often the same outfits that pimp out over 18's will no bother get trafficed women at age 12 and then murder them when they are around 18. Eastern Europeans and Aisian's work 24 hour days 7 days a week in slavery in Soho, London for a rate of 20 pound for ten minutes. Often their family back home are murdered if they escape.

My solution is very straight forward make using a prostitute illegal and pay them 20,000 to ensnare a dope who would use them. Then put them in jail for 20 years. As for pimps I would lash them every day of their short to be lives and throw salt on their wounds.

movingsucks

I wonder how many people would like to be a prostitute?
You do hear or these high class hookers and rent boys who enjoy the work and are happy to make their living that way and I've no problem at all with that. But, I do wonder would there be enough of them to satisfy the demand?
Cigarettes are legal but people still buy counterfeit ones, so I think the seedier side will sadly remain legal or not

admiralofthefleet

remember kids, when hiring a brasser whilst on holiday in Amsterdam, never ask her to sit on your face in a dutch accent

Yamanoto

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

It funds criminal gangs and most of the women are being forced into the sex trade by gangs to make money for them, some of the women are kidnapped and some are lured over with the prospects of a job and a home and their passport is taking off them and forced to have sex with strangers and told they will be assalted and they will never see their family or homeland again.

Hendrik Wagenaar, associate professor at the Department of Public Administration at Leiden University has undertaken extensive research on prostitution in the Netherlands and wider EU.

He'd appear to be at odds with yourself:

Prostitution policy is also plagued by bad numbers. There are lots of bad numbers based on wild estimates. They say there are millions of victims of trafficking in Europe, but no one has ever counted them.

The whole prostitution debate is driven by emotional numbers, as I tend to call them. We counted the number of illegal prostitutes in Rotterdam, and numbers really were not that high. Each one is one too many, do not get me wrong, but the numbers are not that dramatic. We have about 400 cases of trafficking per year in The Netherlands. A lot of people say that this is just the tip of the iceberg, but no one has ever shown the iceberg, or proven that it exists.

I have heard things like ‘more money is made in trafficking worldwide, than in the drug trade and arms trade combined.’ That is complete baloney. Really. You don’t make that much money in trafficking. But it is that kind of stupidity that drives the discourse.

darragh16

There's no craic in it, you pay and get the ride... There's more fun in the hunt!

tempura

GarIT wrote: »

In many countries it is either illegal to buy and/or sell sex. I don't know the exact laws in Ireland but I think we are moving towards the criminalisation of purchasing sex.

In your opinion should/why should prostitution be illegal for either party? For the discussion you should assume the prostitute is a consenting adult.

I think that there should be nothing preventing a person from buying or selling sex if that is what they want to do. There are cases where other crimes are being committed for example trafficking, but these crimes already have laws in place to deal with them. I can't see any problem with the act of prostitution itself, therefore I think it is illogical to stop prostitution as a method of preventing other crimes.

Just google your question and you will see whats wrong with prostitution. The list is far too long to post here.

No doubt you are a male and have a completely different view of it, " ah sure, its grand , isn't it only a bit of sex, herself is getting a few bob, and im getting me end away, all grand so it is.

The naive, uneducated usual response of some men.

Madam_X

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

It funds criminal gangs and most of the women are being forced into the sex trade by gangs to make money for them, some of the women are kidnapped and some are lured over with the prospects of a job and a home and their passport is taking off them and forced to have sex with strangers and told they will be assalted and they will never see their family or homeland again.


so no there is nothing wrong with prostitution

I don't think there's anything wrong with the act of selling/buying sex in and of itself. I wouldn't do it but some perfectly balanced people are able to treat it as a business transaction. And the "high-class" escorts aren't comparable to those operating on the streets. But it's all of the accompanying issues which are the problem in many cases.

dlofnep

I don't see what's so alluring about prostitutes. Granted, they can be gorgeous - But I'd feel like a right twat going to one. The idea of having to give money to a girl to have sex with her is extremely depressing. I'd much prefer to have sex with a girl that likes me, where you both truly enjoy it.

Riding a prostitute might be fun for half an hour, but after it - you'd surely feel like dogshíte. Besides, you'd never know what you'd catch off them. It isn't worth it.

ITS_A_BADGER

Yamanoto wrote: »

Hendrik Wagenaar, associate professor at the Department of Public Administration at Leiden University has undertaken extensive research on prostitution in the Netherlands and wider EU.

He'd appear to be at odds with yourself:

That is in the netherlands where prostitution it is legal, cannabis is legal over there too, there would be no money to made in distributing cannabis over there because it widely available so criminal gangs wouldnt bother because there wouldnt be a demand for it or sex because anybody can get it openly

who the fug

Madam_X wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with the act of selling/buying sex in and of itself. I wouldn't do it but some perfectly balanced people are able to treat it as a business transaction. And the "high-class" escorts aren't comparable to those operating on the streets. But it's all of the accompanying issues which are the problem (in many cases if not all).

what X said, use to be a free market person till I saw louis theroux TV show about a cat house in vegas

nobody comes out good

movingsucks

Another thing that strikes me is the "regulate it and tax it" idea, that's great in theory but so many everyday ordinary manual jobs are done cash in hand in this country (so many puns!) I can't see prostitution being any different, so the country won't benefit, only from the prostitute buying stuff with the money ... Maybe
You might get a few honest folk filling out their tax forms ...

ashers22

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't see what's so alluring about prostitutes. Granted, they can be gorgeous - But I'd feel like a right twat going to one. The idea of having to give money to a girl to have sex with her is extremely depressing. I'd much prefer to have sex with a girl that likes me, where you both truly enjoy it.

Riding a prostitute might be fun for half an hour, but after it - you'd surely feel like dogshíte. Besides, you'd never know what you'd catch off them. It isn't worth it.

just to add a question to that, what if you knew you were having sex with someone who had been sexually abused as a child or had been raised in an environment where their sexuality was used to validate who they were as people? Would you really be happy to continue feeding into someone else's problems? (I know there's plenty of men who wouldn't give a crap but I think it's a bit fked up myself)

ITS_A_BADGER

Madam_X wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with the act of selling/buying sex in and of itself. I wouldn't do it but some perfectly balanced people are able to treat it as a business transaction. And the "high-class" escorts aren't comparable to those operating on the streets. But it's all of the accompanying issues which are the problem (in many cases if not all).

I agree that their is nothing wrong with act of selling sex, if both parties agree to it and aren't forced then (if you pardon the pun) bang away, but its when one of the parties are being forced to have sex with a stranger is where the problem is, If they made it law where sex was legal to purchase and was a legimate "business" it would probably do away with the problem

Jarrod

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

It should be legalised so the safety of the women involved can be ensured, and regulated so it brings in some money for the country.

I think anyone who goes to a prostitute and doesn't know for sure the woman is there voluntarily and is actually getting the money, good terms of work etc. needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

I don't know whether or not it should be legalised as I honestly don't know enough about it but your second point is interesting. I'm sure that everybody avails of at least one service, and I'd imagine a lot ore than one, in which they have no idea where their money goes or what terms of work are for the people that provide that service.

catallus

I think prostitution is illegal partly to protect women.

If a woman is working away in a factory or office or whatever, for what, €400, €500, €600 a week and being a productive economic unit then the prospect of legal prostitution would severely threaten her willingness or choice to continue doing so.

If she saw another woman living beside her earning €600 a day through selling sex then what is her incentive to continue so-called "legitimate" labour?

racso1975

catallus wrote: »

I think prostitution is illegal partly to protect women.

If a woman is working away in a factory or office or whatever, for what, €400, €500, €600 a week and being a productive economic unit then the prospect of legal prostitution would severely threaten her willingness or choice to continue doing so.


If she saw another woman living beside her earning €600 a day through selling sex then what is her incentive to continue so-called "legitimate" labour?

Possibly not riding all the to get that money???

Jarrod

catallus wrote: »

I think prostitution is illegal partly to protect women.

If a woman is working away in a factory or office or whatever, for what, €400, €500, €600 a week and being a productive economic unit then the prospect of legal prostitution would severely threaten her willingness or choice to continue doing so.

If she saw another woman living beside her earning €600 a day through selling sex then what is her incentive to continue so-called "legitimate" labour?

I don't think legalising prostitution would lead to women giving up jobs to become prostitutes, if that's what you're suggesting.

catallus

I think a lot of people would, if her next-door-neighbour was minting it. What's stopping a woman who's busting her arse week in week out in a dead end job for peanuts to say to herself, "look at Joanne over there, takes 4 guys a day, all clean and safe, taking down €3000 a week, and here's me microwaving my dinner at 8:30pm after commuting an hour from a job where I might in ten or twenty years get a 10% raise?"

Yamanoto

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

That is in the netherlands where prostitution it is legal, cannabis is legal over there too, there would be no money to made in distributing cannabis over there because it widely available so criminal gangs wouldnt bother because there wouldnt be a demand for it or sex because anybody can get it openly

Read my post again, the Leiden research is based on data available (or not) intra-EU.

As for drugs, the Netherlands is well-established as a major centre for the sale and distribution of Cannabis - the port of Rotterdam and its Shengen open-border arrangements make it a most desirable location for those seeking to route illicit goods across the entire continent.

It's also worth noting Dutch coffeeshops purchase wholesale from unregulated growers, whom it is believed also supply the criminal underworld.

hatrickpatrick

Consensual prostitution should be legal, and those who are found to be forcing somebody into it should be locked in jail for the rest of their lives with no prospect of seeing the light of day again.

That's my view anyway. I absolutely despise the idea of there being any regulation whatsoever about what consenting adults choose to do with themselves. It's the same view I have of drugs - my body, my choice. Nobody else's business.

I find it odd when people say "prostitutes might not really want to do it" - that's true, but at the same time a lot of people have non-transactional sex as well when they're not that interested, say to make someone else jealous or to get a promotion or whatever (let's face it, there are unscrupulous people out there who will do this and it's probably a lot more common than we'd like to think) - why does the exchange of money specifically make it more evil than any of these other cases? I find this a little odd.

Controversially, using sex appeal to bag a rich guy could be seen as akin to prostitution - except that with prostitution, there are no pretenses on either side's part about their motives. Don't attack me, I'm just saying - there are alternative viewpoints to every debate.

My final thought is, to those who say a lot of people would still do it illegally - that's true, but surely any increase, however small, in the safety of it is a good thing?

The key issue on this is very simple - however you might view this, it's an absolute fact - prostitution will always exist, because there will always be a demand for it. Even if you threatened anyone involved with execution, it would still happen. It goes back to the dawn of civilization and no culture or society has ever succeeded in eradicating it completely. Nothing we write into our statute books can change human nature, no matter how much we want to.

In my view, it's definitely the lesser of two evils.

(Oh and before I get stereotyped, I'd never go to one myself, if nothing else because I find the idea of being with someone who's only in it for the cash and not because she actually fancies me mind numbingly depressing, and I can only imagine I'd leave feeling more lonely than I felt going in. But that's me. Evidently there are people out there who don't feel the same way about it, and that's their choice.)

Dwork

What is wrong with Prostitution, (and as it happens, I know the "pre-eminent" Pimp in Ireland pretty well and have no great regard for either him or his choice of profession) is that generally, one party is exploiting the other for personal financial gain and the "John" is just the mug to be milked. In the course of this miliking, one gets rich, the other gets used and abused. Anyone with a shred of regard for their fellow human has to recognise that in a transaction where a person sells their body to another, someones getting fcuked, and sadly, it's usually the female.

If someone has no other recourse but to sell their body, usually there's either a sadistic prkic exploiting them, some muscle bound con-man codding them, or they are so addled by drugs that they don't know what they're doing. The whole "Belle de Jour" schyte is usually just that, schyte. For those advocating legalising the trade, imagine it is your daughter, it's generally someones daughter. I'd want better for my daughter. Most would.

Jarrod

catallus wrote: »

I think a lot of people would, if her next-door-neighbour was minting it. What's stopping a woman who's busting her arse week in week out in a dead end job for peanuts to say to herself, "look at Joanne over there, takes 4 guys a day, all clean and safe, taking down €3000 a week, and here's me microwaving my dinner at 8:30pm after commuting an hour from a job where I might in ten or twenty years get a 10% raise?"

Well to be honest I don't think that all that many people want to be prostitutes, and not because it's illegal but because they don't want to sleep with 20 odd strangers a week.

Also, if a lot of people were to do it then inevitably supply would greatly exceed demand meaning it would become less and less profitable.

slievenamon fella

does anyone have a rough idea on the number of men that use prostitues each week?

Yamanoto

tempura wrote: »

Just google your question and you will see whats wrong with prostitution. The list is far too long to post here.

No doubt you are a male and have a completely different view of it, " ah sure, its grand , isn't it only a bit of sex, herself is getting a few bob, and im getting me end away, all grand so it is.

The naive, uneducated usual response of some men.

So let me ask you this:

If two consenting adults freely agree to enact a transaction for sex (again let me make this clear - no coercion involved), would you have an objection to that and if so, on what grounds?

Dwork

Jarrod wrote: »

Well to be honest I don't think that all that many people want to be prostitutes, and not because it's illegal but because they don't want to sleep with 20 odd strangers a week.

Also, if a lot of people were to do it then inevitably supply would greatly exceed demand meaning it would become less and less profitable.[/QUOTE]
A day, and it's profitable, believe me, it's profitable. Just usually not for the girls involved. It's a trade for scumbags. And I don't include the women involved in that definition, just the men.

catallus

Economic arguments are all well and good, my point is that one of the reasons that prostitution is illegal is that it dis-incentivises it for a significant proportion of the population: the social consequences of it are substantial enough to divert possible suppliers from the market.

Hurling Mad

Prostitutes and Escorts serve a basic need for men and provide an excellent service. I have used escorts regularly and only use those who operate independently. I am happy o pay when I can afford and meeting a nice mature or young lady who satisfies my needs is not wrong. Its treated as a business arrangement where money is exchanged for a service.

Qualitymark

GarIT wrote: »

In many countries it is either illegal to buy and/or sell sex. I don't know the exact laws in Ireland but I think we are moving towards the criminalisation of purchasing sex.

In your opinion should/why should prostitution be illegal for either party? For the discussion you should assume the prostitute is a consenting adult.

I think that there should be nothing preventing a person from buying or selling sex if that is what they want to do. There are cases where other crimes are being committed for example trafficking, but these crimes already have laws in place to deal with them. I can't see any problem with the act of prostitution itself, therefore I think it is illogical to stop prostitution as a method of preventing other crimes.

Perhaps the most fair and equal model would be that anyone who sells his/her body should be entitled to pay another for sex too?

Paddy Cow

catallus wrote: »

I think a lot of people would, if her next-door-neighbour was minting it. What's stopping a woman who's busting her arse week in week out in a dead end job for peanuts to say to herself, "look at Joanne over there, takes 4 guys a day, all clean and safe, taking down €3000 a week, and here's me microwaving my dinner at 8:30pm after commuting an hour from a job where I might in ten or twenty years get a 10% raise?"

You could not pay me enough money to be a prostitute. It's not that I think a women who sells her body is a harlot who will burn in hell but I would not be able to bring myself to sleep with that many strangers. I don't even like this touchy feely crap where you have to kiss people on the cheeks. What happened to simply shaking hands ffs?

ITS_A_BADGER

Yamanoto wrote: »

Read my post again, the Leiden research is based on data available (or not) intra-EU.

From your same article

It was very difficult for policy makers to do something about the rights of the women, because they did not have access to the brothels. That changed when prostitution became legal and most brothels were licensed. But still it turned out to be very difficult to guarantee prostitutes the kind of labour rights that you and I have. Unannounced visits to licensed sex facilities by field workers of the Rode Draad (the Read Thread; an organisation founded in 1985 by (ex) sexworkers, with the aim of fighting the rights of all sexworkers in The Netherlands, ed.) has shown that a lot of, what I call 'small exploitation' is still going on. You have to think of taking in the women’s earnings, forcing women to work without condom, refusing them the right to reject clients, or an unhygienic work environment. In some of the unlicensed clubs women were more or less held in captivity ’”

“Yes, that really shows how diverse it is. But the situation in Amsterdam is a bit complicated. First of all, it became clear that the legalisation law was not succeeding. Policy makers began to have the feeling that a lot of crime was interrelated with prostitution, such as drug trade, trafficking, pimping and money laundering into real estate.

Jarrod

Dwork wrote: »

Jarrod wrote: »

Well to be honest I don't think that all that many people want to be prostitutes, and not because it's illegal but because they don't want to sleep with 20 odd strangers a week.

Also, if a lot of people were to do it then inevitably supply would greatly exceed demand meaning it would become less and less profitable.[/QUOTE]
A day, and it's profitable, believe me, it's profitable. Just usually not for the girls involved. It's a trade for scumbags. And I don't include the women involved in that definition, just the men.

I'm not arguing that it should be legal or illegal, as I previously said, I don't know enough about it. I was just pointing out that I don't think legalising it would result in a large number of people packing in their day jobs to become prostitutes, as somebody else suggested.

Are you saying that the only people involved in the organisation of prostitution are men? Do you think it's possible that there are also women out there who exploit prostitutes? I'd imagine that it is predominantly men but I'd say there are women involved too.

catallus

If we are talking about the running of brothels then the masters are usually women and men, what difference does it make anyway?

Cienciano

Of course it should be legal. And if you don't like the idea of paying for sex, don't do it.
The only reason it's illegal is because conservative and religious organisations are against it. They'll pretend it's because of human trafficking or anti women (the church worried about womens rights, that's a laugh!), but the real reason they're against it is because they still think sex is dirty. They'd ban porn and masturbation if they could get away with it.

amacca

dlofnep wrote: »

'd much prefer to have sex with a girl that likes me, where you both truly enjoy it.

but what if no girls you liked have ever liked you?

what then.....have sex with someone you don't like if you can fool them into thinking you do?

or

die a virgin?

Yamanoto

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

From your same article

Link?