Future of Tramore’s Metalman and pillars safe

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/tramore-metalman-803285-Feb2013/

A new limited company has been established to take ownership of the structures and manage it as a tourism attraction.

This seems a good move, especially establishing a proper walkway to the structures

mike65

Saw that, no mention about the two towers on Brownstown Head though, I presume they are included in the new company.

Sully

I'd have concerns with a private company taking over the Metalman and Brownstown. Any private company for that matter, nothing to do with any of the current business people running it. No doubt they have the best interests for Tramore, but its just not sitting comfortably.

Its an awful shame that the council can't take it over and the state haven't stepped in to take control, its just left slip into private control. Its sad that this is the way our country has gone. What should be in public control or what should be public funded, is now slipping into private control.

Even councils look for private funding to clean the town, add bins, add flowers, and so on.

wellboytoo

I believe there was such a gulf of distrust between landowners and WCC the compromise was what we see today, I have been told this from some of the people involved, sad reflection on WCC.

Sully

wellboytoo wrote: »

I believe there was such a gulf of distrust between landowners and WCC the compromise was what we see today, I have been told this from some of the people involved, sad reflection on WCC.

I was always of the understanding WCC couldn't take it over because they didn't have the budget. The government were asked to step in. This solution is old news now.

blankAs

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

looksee

How would anyone make a business out of it? It would cost more to put barriers round it and have someone charging people than they would make.

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

Tramore Tourism wouldn't create a new tourism body that competes with itself. Instead, they decided to take hold of the Metalman and Brownstown Pillars but under a private limited company with businessmen involved that would look after it going forward because (it appears) no public body has any interest. This company would be responsible for maintenance of such, the pathway and so on. But not actively promoting tourism in the town or any other business (I can't say 100% but I would be very surprised if they did).

I also don't think its fair to suggest that tourism bodies are promoting the town out of their own interests. I have been running Discover Tramore for over five years. Its non-commercial and I launched it as a small operation to promote Tramore online. I felt that Tramore is not being promoted as well as it could be and so I set out to do something about that. I'm completely independent and I get absolutely no support or positive thumbs up from other tourism organisations - some of which have said they would prefer I wasn't here.

I don't own a tourism business that can benefit from such an organisation (I doubt tourists would have any interest in getting websites, graphic design or printing done!). I am not doing it for my own interests. I am doing it because this is the town I have grown up in, its a town that I care about and its a town that I want as many people as possible to know just how lovely it is, encourage them to visit and when they do visit I supply them with plenty of tourism material to make their stay a pleasant and enjoyable one.

Just to give an example of the work that goes into Discover Tramore. In 2012 I produced a 16 page holiday brochure, detailed glossy town holiday map, driving guides for dolmen drive, south east coastal drive, copper coast drive and a walking guide of Tramore Beach. There were above 40,000 visitors to our website last year (Jan - Dec) and at present we have nearly 4,000 Facebook Fans (largest for tourism in the town). Delivered regularly to local businesses throughout the season and the brochure is distributed to ferry ports, airports and some tourist offices.

In order to do all this, I work with the majority of local tourism businesses and every year we keep on growing as more businesses join. I extended registration for 2013 until February 28th due to the demand. Its fantastic to see so many businesses paying a small fee for a lot of promotion for their business and for the town for a year.

The more tourism bodies the better. It doubles the efforts of promoting Tramore. I never understood why others didn't see this and objected. In some cases, like my own, it creates employment and boosts the local economy. We have had a number come and go in recent years, some indeed came just for the money but businesses are smart and spent their money wisely.

looksee wrote: »

How would anyone make a business out of it? It would cost more to put barriers round it and have someone charging people than they would make.

I assume the fear is that they will charge tourists for using the walkway. There are a number of ways money can be made from a potential walkway. But the organisation is said to be non-profit. I assume most people just would prefer a public state body like the Office of the Public Works looked after it.

wellboytoo

blankAs wrote: »

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

A blanket negative statement backed up by sweet f a , taking a swipe at good honest people who are getting up off their arse and doing something rather than carping on the internet.

Blankas your a whinger

Psychedelic

blankAs wrote: »

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

I know some of the people involved in this, and they are decent people with the town's best interests at heart and are the only people actually doing anything to try improve things. They live and work here, they raise their kids here. They are not money-hungry tycoons looking to milk the town's assets for personal gain.

This is a great example of local people and businesses working together. The Co. Council wanted nothing to do with the Metalman and only for these people the Metalman would continue to have no access. At least now there is a chance that a proper tourist attraction is developed.

blankAs

why another tourism company though? could there not just be one umbrella tourism company working for the town.....

Sully

Psychedelic wrote: »

I know some of the people involved in this, and they are decent people with the town's best interests at heart and are the only people actually doing anything to try improve things. They live and work here, they raise their kids here. They are not money-hungry tycoons looking to milk the town's assets for personal gain.

This is a great example of local people and businesses working together. The Co. Council wanted nothing to do with the Metalman and only for these people the Metalman would continue to have no access. At least now there is a chance that a proper tourist attraction is developed.

Ah now that's a little harsh. There not the only people with the towns interest at heart. You don't need to be a member of Tramore Tourism to be passionate about the town and want to improve it.

blankAs wrote: »

why another tourism company though? could there not just be one umbrella tourism company working for the town.....

As I said, its not another tourism company. I assume its not being put under Tramore Tourism because they felt an independent body should be looking after it and the money that it could possibly generate.

Psychedelic

Point taken Sully, I forgot about Tidy Towns, your Discover Tramore, a few others too. It goes without saying too that most of us living in the town have the town's best interests at heart and we all want to see things improve.

As I understand it, and I don't know too much about company law, but this new company is non-profit so no director of the company can legally earn income through the company, and any profit made would be retained in the company. I think it also makes sense for Tramore Tourism to keep the Metalman separate to their own organisation from a finance and administration point of view.

wellboytoo

Psychedelic wrote: »

Point taken Sully, I forgot about Tidy Towns, your Discover Tramore, a few others too. It goes without saying too that most of us living in the town have the town's best interests at heart and we all want to see things improve.

As I understand it, and I don't know too much about company law, but this new company is non-profit so no director of the company can legally earn income through the company, and any profit made would be retained in the company. I think it also makes sense for Tramore Tourism to keep the Metalman separate to their own organisation from a finance and administration point of view.

Agreed but as I said previously this was just a vehicle to solve the impasse that has prevailed for thirty years +, total distrust of the Council, I have some experience of it as i was involved in painting them a few years ago and had no difficulties with getting permission to go in there from the landowners, the opposite in fact, wheras the Council cost us a lot of money with their need of engineering reports et al..

Tramore Tourism

Below is the Statement released by Tramore Tourism.

Tramore Tourism has moved to clarify its stance in relation to the transfer of ownership of the Metalman and its pillars.



“Following the announcement that The Metalman of Tramore and the pillars on opposite headlands will transfer into private ownership, Tramore Tourism has moved to inform the public on the work that is being done to preserve the sacred pillars. The Metalman (and pillars) are currently owned by Irish Lights who are the authority primarily responsible for ships navigation in Irish waters. Due to advancements in technology, Irish Lights no longer considers these structures usable navigational aids and are keen to dispose of them to more suitable custodians.

The Metalman had been offered to Waterford County Council but they declined to take ownership due to budgetary constraints and problems with access to the structures. The long standing problem is that the pillars are on private property and currently there is no legal access or right away to the pillars.

Tramore Tourism was then encouraged to engage with Irish Lights to take ownership. With the support of Failte Ireland, the County Council, and the Mayor of Tramore, a continual effort was and is being made to develop the Metalman as an accessible part of the towns’ landscape and an attraction that will bolster civic pride for the whole county. This effort involves creating a safe walkway from Newtown Cove to the Metalman (a distance of approximately 900 meters) that would be the jewel in the crown of a local heritage trail extending from the Metalman to the sand dunes taking in all the maritime, cultural, and natural heritage of Tramore.

Even though Tramore Tourism is already an established non profit group, a specific legal entity was needed to receive and manage the structures. A separate limited company had therefore been established to deal with the transfer of ownership- Tramore Heritage Limited. This sub-committee, which currently has seven directors, all of whom are active members of Tramore Tourism, is registered as a “non profit” company to manage these monuments of national, historic and cultural importance.

Neither Tramore Tourism nor Tramore Heritage Ltd has any intention of selling these structures nor will any directors receive any personal profit from their management. In regards to the image and symbol of the Metalman which is widely used by local businesses and in many photographic and printed materials, the committee has said it encourages this in “strengthening the link to our rich past and to increase our pride and sense of place”.

Once we have resolved the access with the landowners, we are confident that this will be a game changer for Tramore greatly increasing visitor numbers throughout the year creating more jobs whilst bolstering civic pride in Tramore and Waterford people. It will be a compliment to the already successful walks throughout the county and other heritage tourism attractions in the Southeast such as the hugely successful Viking Triangle.

A public campaign will soon be underway in Tramore and Waterford to gain support through a “Friends of the Metalman” program. The aim is to secure the necessary funding needed to develop the walk to the Metalman and other elements of a heritage trail.

blankAs

so this friends of the metal man, what will this entail? will this be yet another fundraising campaign?

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

so this friends of the metal man, what will this entail? will this be yet another fundraising campaign?

That's what the statement says it will do. Its the only way they are going to fund it unless the businessmen part of the private company who are "active Tramore tourism members" fund it themselves.

Also, when you say 'yet another fundraising campaign' - what other fundraiser campaigns have been done for the benefit of the town? I don't recall any - this is the first. Its not uncommon (though a sad state of affairs) for the council to seek private funding for the town maintenance, but this is a tad different. The council can't afford it and it appears the state were not put under any pressure to take it so a private company stepped up to see if they could work out a deal with the owner and fund via the public a walkway.

Psychedelic

blankAs wrote: »

so this friends of the metal man, what will this entail? will this be yet another fundraising campaign?

Have a listen:
http://www.wlrfm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=175029&Itemid=1008

mike65

They need to promote the "hop three times round the metal man and you'll be married within the year" legend. Radio (or Nationwide) loves that sort of thing.

Sully

mike65 wrote: »

They need to promote the "hop three times round the metal man and you'll be married within the year" legend. Radio (or Nationwide) loves that sort of thing.

Agreed. There is a lot to Tramore that is untouched in terms of marketing it. This particular gem is part of the Discover Tramore marketing plan for the year.

blankAs

When i say yet another fundraising campaign, im mean yet another fundraising campaign.
This town is saturated by fundraising campaigns for a variety of issues . There are campaigns out there with some fantastic people with great ideas but unfortunately this is making it difficult for others who are trying to fundraise. i know everyone its stretched to the limit financially at the moment but very worthy places and issues that desperately need funds are being passed over and being told 'sorry no, we cant help as we are already funding x,y and z.

so to see yet another fundraising campaign in aid of 3 stone pillars( yes their great and historic but this is a project that is best suited to boom times when money is flung around) it would be an almighty shame when there are people in this town who cant afford to eat, who forgo their portion of intervention rice so as their children might feel full, heat their homes, suffer as they cant afford the doctor or dentist, pay for the extra things in schools such as swimming, pay for childcare to allow them to go to a course or to work.
im not talking out of my hole here, this is going on in our town and there isnt the funds available to help, fix or even just alleviate these problems.
what gets me though is helping inistoige puppys when there are many people suffering within 500 metres of all of us.....

Psychedelic

There is plenty of support available for people who can't afford basic food and heat such as social welfare, children's allowance, Meals On Wheels, St Vincent de Paul, loads of other charities etc.

There will always be people in need, and even more so for as long as this recession lasts, but we shouldn't just stop all fundraisers because of that, otherwise we would never do fundraisers.

And who are the "people in this town who cant afford to eat, who forgo their portion of intervention rice...." ??? Do they not get social welfare, medical cards, rent allowance and other benefits?

blankAs

you want names and addresses of people as proof?!
You make me laugh when you say there is social welfare for that, these payments are not enough to meet the needs of a family for a whole week. meals on wheels is for old people and the svp is quite selective as to who they will help. people in this town are suffering, and suffering badly, worse still children are being affected. children are going to school hungry with no lunches and the schools are not stepping in to help, nobody is realy.
not everybody is entitled to a medical card and in order to get rent allowance you must live in pebble beach or somewhere else that costs e400. try find accomidation in this town that you would be eligible for rent allowance and then somewhere that will accept rent allowance. And please could you tell me what are these other benefits that you speak of??
There is massive poverty in this town alongside massive unemployment, if you are so far removed from this reality, then how very lovely it must be to live in this bubble. Talk to some people who are involved in social care provision or education in this town and you will be painted a bleak and dark picture. take your head out of the sand and look around you.
while i would welcome the metalman being accessable to all, i would not welcome a fundraising campaign for three stone pillars, this project would only benefit a select few, if any realy.

Sully

In all walks of live, in every single town and county of our beautiful country, you will have fundraisers for various different things. There are many organisations and charities that are seeking donations for different things - for the poor, for the sick, for the disabled, for the seriously ill, for animals of different types, for heritage, the church, voluntary ambulance and so on. The people can decide what, if any, they donate to. Nobody is forcing their hand to donate for our heritage and its just another example of a public service seeking private funds to continue.

It might be an idea to look at the potential positives in your posts rather than only negative. I'm not one bit happy this is going into private ownership regardless of its commercial status. I also think its wishful thinking that the public will donate in such large numbers for our heritage. Its also a shame that it wasn't mentioned to myself who has bent over backwards, despite some stiff opposition, to promote Tramore. But hey, whats the alternative? If Irish Lights don't want it, the council don't want it and nobody is going to apply pressure on the government - what else do we do? It has potential, and while not a game changer for Tramore, it has potential to be a lovely addition and a beautiful tourist attraction if done right.

If we focus on the negatives in life, we won't get anywhere. I can vouch for that!

Psychedelic

blankAs wrote: »

you want names and addresses of people as proof?!
You make me laugh when you say there is social welfare for that, these payments are not enough to meet the needs of a family for a whole week. meals on wheels is for old people and the svp is quite selective as to who they will help. people in this town are suffering, and suffering badly, worse still children are being affected. children are going to school hungry with no lunches and the schools are not stepping in to help, nobody is realy.
not everybody is entitled to a medical card and in order to get rent allowance you must live in pebble beach or somewhere else that costs e400. try find accomidation in this town that you would be eligible for rent allowance and then somewhere that will accept rent allowance. And please could you tell me what are these other benefits that you speak of??
There is massive poverty in this town alongside massive unemployment, if you are so far removed from this reality, then how very lovely it must be to live in this bubble. Talk to some people who are involved in social care provision or education in this town and you will be painted a bleak and dark picture. take your head out of the sand and look around you.
while i would welcome the metalman being accessable to all, i would not welcome a fundraising campaign for three stone pillars, this project would only benefit a select few, if any realy.

I didn't ask for names & addresses, I'll take your word for it. I just don't understand how there is massive poverty like you say, nobody should be going without food, and if they are then they should be entitled to all the benefits like social welfare, medical cards, rent allowance/social housing, fuel allowance, children's allowance, back to school allowance.....

Are these people all in massive debt or something? Or is there a variety of reasons why they are in poverty?

mike65

Lads this really is way off topic!

When I win the euromillions I'll take them over and open a concession stand with plastic Metal Mans. Should be a hit. Maybe someone should do that anyway Or "visit the Metal man and get a free round of pitch and putt". Okay maybe not.

Brick Session

Sully wrote: »

Also, when you say 'yet another fundraising campaign' - what other fundraiser campaigns have been done for the benefit of the town? I don't recall any - this is the first.

Sully perhaps you are too young to remember when every household in Tramore was asked to contribute to the funding of Splashworld, in fact we used to joke that when they would knock on my door collecting for a swimming pool that we would give them a bucket of water . But anyway it has been done before. My only gripe with that was that while the people of Tramore were asked to pay for this "wonderful" public swimming pool, an awful lot of the people who live in Tramore and contributed to the building of Splashworld can't afford the admission prices to get in. Yes, I know they have a loyalty card blaa blaa blaa.

My point is this, if a fundraising campaign is held and the people of Tramore are asked to contribute to the Metal Man etc, then don't price those people out of it when it comes to admission.

I wish you the best of luck with it and yes Tramore is a gem that could be a tourist haven if marketed properly and lost its image of just being an amusement park and another overpriced and dated seaside town. Oh and hopefully we will get our wonderful Guillamene restored in time as well.

I wish you well with it.

tbayers

Sully are you still proposed to the new group taking over the the proposed new heritage trail, giving that it has been pointed out in numerous media outlets that its a non profit organisation?? Just wondering as this post is pretty old and a lot has happened since!

BlankAs, again i reiterate that without proposals like the proposed heritage trail out to the metal man, Tramore wont move forward at all. This might improve visitor numbers and in turn might increase the amount of people working in the tourist industry in Tramore. That way the kids that are going hungry to school might have a job in the future!!

blankAs

why not deal with the problem at hand and feed the hungry children and adults in the community instead of having them hanging around, malnourished, waiting for a job that might never come?

invalid

blankAs wrote: »

why not deal with the problem at hand and feed the hungry children and adults in the community instead of having them hanging around, malnourished, waiting for a job that might never come?

Nothing like a bit of hysteria and scaremongering when you have no other argument. You talk of things which are happening as the rule, not the exception they are. There are near 10,000 odd (some very :-) ) people in this town and unless you are a CWO you really haven't a clue what you are talking about.

I'm from Tramore, I live here, i raise my family here and but i work in the city. I never intend living anywhere else.

I applaude the moving of the 5 towers to local ownership and i wish it every success. To progress this project will require the drive and energy of a dedicated group. The last place the towers should reside is with the Council, and i am the last one to bash the council, but it is simply the wrong place for a specialist project like this. They do not have the time or resources to possibly bring this project to fruition, especially at the, moment when the merger has paralyzed the organization completely.

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

Sully are you still proposed to the new group taking over the the proposed new heritage trail, giving that it has been pointed out in numerous media outlets that its a non profit organisation?? Just wondering as this post is pretty old and a lot has happened since!

BlankAs, again i reiterate that without proposals like the proposed heritage trail out to the metal man, Tramore wont move forward at all. This might improve visitor numbers and in turn might increase the amount of people working in the tourist industry in Tramore. That way the kids that are going hungry to school might have a job in the future!!

Proposed to the new group? Not sure I follow what you mean? But at a guess, ill state that I support the initiative in principal by the only group involved in this since 2009 to get it up and running. I think its an absolutely fantastic idea, and I am disappointed some are completely stonewall against it and I am disappointed its only now really reaching the public domain and it hasn't been very open. I'm disappointed with the way both sides of this debate have 'performed' on social media, with some throwing in some very low personal attacks. It seems if you don't agree with one side, your just attacked for not supporting their view. To be frank, I think most people haven't a clue even those who say they do.

I fully agree with those who are simply pointing out facts, or at least, what appears to be facts. There are concerns and the councilors want to go back to the body to address them are not having much luck. There are a small number of individuals who did research and are asking questions. Its right to be asking questions and its right we are 100% sure on our approach to handing over such an important part our heritage.

I think its safe to say this group will make a profit, eventually. There will be excess where they have money left over after spending it on insurance, maintenance, and other associated costs. I understand why they are pushing that message though but no harm in being honest.

There were a number of big questions at the town council. It turns out they voted against this in February, but its back on the table again for a third time after the last vote was postponed. I was surprised the kid Jack didn't turn up after he setup the Voice of The Metal Man page with 'support' but the way the page was run and handled was completely wrong so I guess he decided to shy away from it as the page has, thankfully, died.

The issues people have with this is mostly related to the memorandum of understanding which states that officers can be paid and that assets potentially could be sold. One councilor, Cllr. Power, got legal advise which stated that the group were unlikely to get non profit status as a result of this and confirming that a protected structure can still be sold as a result of this structure. It was asked why the town council didn't get legal advise, of which there was no reply (though Mayor Conway seemed to indicate it would be mentioned later in the meeting). She pointed out that the way this is being done is not similar to other public structures around Ireland. It was also asked that the council buy the land and lease it instead.

The council was split on the letter of support, but it was passed by one vote to send a letter of support to hand over the pillars. Its now up to the County Council to give the final nod of approval and both sides are already claiming victory which is amusing! Tramore Tourism have this in the bag though, they have the support and they will proceed and try finish the job.

If they are successful in getting the land, and all the money to do what they have plans for, I hope its more open and transparent and not just up to themselves to do the jobs. I really do hope the issues people have are addressed, but I don't remain hopeful. I think if we had most educated people on the matter in support, we would be on the pigs back and it would be great news for Tramore.

Sully

invalid wrote: »

I applaude the moving of the 5 towers to local ownership and i wish it every success. To progress this project will require the drive and energy of a dedicated group. The last place the towers should reside is with the Council, and i am the last one to bash the council, but it is simply the wrong place for a specialist project like this. They do not have the time or resources to possibly bring this project to fruition, especially at the, moment when the merger has paralyzed the organization completely.

Its worth noting that most public structures are bought by the council (across the country) and than leased out to heritage groups to 'do their thing'. This is the safest way to deal with a public structure but it allows a 'community' group to do the work.

Its a bit dangerous for the group themselves to have it all for themselves. Even if it was the pope and all the apostles.

tbayers

I was asking did you oppose the idea of a private group (although now public) being set up to take over the pillars. You have answered the question though, mainly that you do have your doubts.

I know the people involved, and I personally think their intentions are positive in the long run. I kind of look at it in a similar way to TBay Surf Club, they can make a profit but money goes back into the club. They can also sell the building they now own but no one can make a profit from that. It technical though and I can understand that quite a few people are getting lost in it all!!

Another thing, and this is no way personal but are you not a member of Fine Gael and kind of have to support what your fellow colleague Cllr. Power says and does? Im just curious is all

And as you said, I hope for everyones sake that this becomes the town of Tramore's trail

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

I was asking did you oppose the idea of a private group (although now public) being set up to take over the pillars. You have answered the question though, mainly that you do have your doubts.

I know the people involved, and I personally think their intentions are positive in the long run. I kind of look at it in a similar way to TBay Surf Club, they can make a profit but money goes back into the club. They can also sell the building they now own but no one can make a profit from that. It technical though and I can understand that quite a few people are getting lost in it all!!

Well in terms of private ownership - which it effectively is in a way- I'm not in agreement with that. I'd prefer we followed the model used by all other public structures (which supporters of the idea claim they are doing, but its been pointed out they are not doing the same) being owned by the council and leased out. I'd be happier with that personally, but the council don't seem bothered so then the next thing I would prefer is that the group setup a proper structure of articles that didn't permit the sale of assets or payment for officers.

Another thing, and this is no way personal but are you not a member of Fine Gael and kind of have to support what your fellow colleague Cllr. Power says and does? Im just curious is all

Well considering Fine Gael councilors are split on this, with two voting in favour - Cllr. O'Sullivan & Cllr. Raine - the answer is no.

What your getting mixed up with is the whip system, which more applies at national government level where TDs go by the party whip in voting and are not allowed vote outside of that. It applies at times to the council level also, but didn't apply on the night in question of the vote as we had two FG in favour and two FG not in favour. The whip system doesn't apply to members of the party or supporters either, who are entitled to their own view.

I can't say I agree with much of what Cllr. Power says or does in general, so this is a rare moment that I see her concerns and I think she shouldn't be slated for bringing them to our attention. Its also rare that Cllr. Raine doesn't agree with her, they generally worked very closely together since he entered politics but that link seems to be breaking away and Cllr. Raine has a voice of his own. She said herself in the town council meeting that she didn't teach him very well and I thought that comment was a low blow and very unfair.

Smiley Burnett

as an aside to discussion, as much as i think it is important that the future of the metalman is secured, i really dont think anyone will pay to get access to the it....

Sully

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

as an aside to discussion, as much as i think it is important that the future of the metalman is secured, i really dont think anyone will pay to get access to the it....

We pay to see most structures and its the only way you can fund it?

(Or pay the officers :P)

Smiley Burnett

Sully wrote: »

We pay to see most structures and its the only way you can fund it?

(Or pay the officers :P)

lots of attractions around the country are free....they are run by the OPW....CHARGE FOR THE METALMAN AND YOU WILL HAVE A BIG WHITE ELEPHANT ON YOUR HANDS!!

P.S. how are things going in CELTWORLD??

tbayers

Thanks for clearing up that Sully, interesting to see who was voting for what side.

I doubt very much they will charge for the entry to the metal man. However, I think a system where they charge people for audio tapes, tours etc would be the best way to make money. I just doubt it very much they are planning to charge people to enter the metal man, that would upset the completeness of the trail too ie. 7/8 of the trail is free but you would have to pay to get into metal man, just doesn't make sense! Or maybe they will rely on private funding by those who will indirectly benefit from it?? The public meeting coming up soon will be interesting to see what their plans are.

Another thing to think about, why do we have to follow what everybody does around the country with similar structures? Yes its the common thing to do but that doesn't necessarily mean its the best way, the easiest maybe but maybe not the best way (sometimes)!

When you lease something out the main motive is money, it goes to the highest bidder. I think this will work out, it is going to be run by people who are passionate about Tramore and won't be blinded by politics....HOPEFULLY

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

Thanks for clearing up that Sully, interesting to see who was voting for what side.

I doubt very much they will charge for the entry to the metal man. However, I think a system where they charge people for audio tapes, tours etc would be the best way to make money. I just doubt it very much they are planning to charge people to enter the metal man, that would upset the completeness of the trail too ie. 7/8 of the trail is free but you would have to pay to get into metal man, just doesn't make sense! Or maybe they will rely on private funding by those who will indirectly benefit from it?? The public meeting coming up soon will be interesting to see what their plans are.

Another thing to think about, why do we have to follow what everybody does around the country with similar structures? Yes its the common thing to do but that doesn't necessarily mean its the best way, the easiest maybe but maybe not the best way (sometimes)!

When you lease something out the main motive is money, it goes to the highest bidder. I think this will work out, it is going to be run by people who are passionate about Tramore and won't be blinded by politics....HOPEFULLY

Why do we have to follow everybody? Because its the safest way of doing things. Its not like plans of a house for a housing estate and you decide "Why do I do what they do? Ill build my own design". The structure other companies use ensures the item in question is in safe hands, no money can be made from it etc. Whereas the structure being used at the moment is the opposite.

If the council buy it, its public land and a public structure. Its not owned by a private group in the interests of the public. The council lease it out for only a nominal fee like a €1 so its not the highest bidder. Plus, the council should, in theory, only lease it out to a group they feel they can trust and that will do a good job under their watchful eye.

wellboytoo

Sully wrote: »

If the council buy it, its public land and a public structure. Its not owned by a private group in the interests of the public. The council lease it out for only a nominal fee like a €1 so its not the highest bidder. Plus, the council should, in theory, only lease it out to a group they feel they can trust and that will do a good job under their watchful eye.

Sully you are not listening the landowners want nothing to do Waterford County Council, nothing at all, years of distrust of broken promises, so the ONLY reason the Ltd Company is being used is to get around this stumbling block.

So all this palaver about a private company etc is so much BS , this was the only way that through years torturous negotiation this compromise was reached.
It was others who brought up these nefarious arguments about Private ownership etc, for their own reasons or through ignorance.

Sully

wellboytoo wrote: »

Sully you are not listening the landowners want nothing to do Waterford County Council, nothing at all, years of distrust of broken promises, so the ONLY reason the Ltd Company is being used is to get around this stumbling block.

So all this palaver about a private company etc is so much BS , this was the only way that through years torturous negotiation this compromise was reached.
It was others who brought up these nefarious arguments about Private ownership etc, for their own reasons or through ignorance.

If you read my posts, you will see that I am listening. I'm fully aware that some of the landowners are unhappy with the council and I am aware of the background to the case. I don't live that far from it. I said it would be ideal if the council did lease the land out, but if they can't, we need to ensure the body looking after the Metal Man is setup correctly.

I'm not sure if this is the case but I was told that the council could force the landowners to hand over the land through a Compulsory Purchase Order. Again, I am not sure what the position in regards to that is.

whynot??

Its not a private company its a public company set up by a community group, I seen that on a great blog by westown life. I'll try and post it here,

http://clarescott.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/brass-necks-and-balls-of-steelthe-battle-for-the-metal-man/

Sully

whynot?? wrote: »

Its not a private company its a public company set up by a community group, I seen that on a great blog by westown life. I'll try and post it here,

http://clarescott.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/brass-necks-and-balls-of-steelthe-battle-for-the-metal-man/

The Battle for the Metal Man seems a bit of an extreme title!

I think most people refer to it as private because its not the same when compared with the council (a public body that is protected, whereas this company isn't) or the OPW etc.

whynot??

Great blog though! Really sums it up that one councilor hast spent so much time trying to derail a project by a community group, if she speant as much time looking after the people that are going to lose the facilities from the meeting place it might not be closing down?

Sully, will you inform everyone who calls it a private company that's it's not. It clearly states its a public and all the wrong information being branded out there has upset some people.

Time to set the record straight as we need this project for the sake of the town!

Sully

whynot?? wrote: »

Great blog though! Really sums it up that one councilor hast spent so much time trying to derail a project by a community group, if she speant as much time looking after the people that are going to lose the facilities from the meeting place it might not be closing down?

Sully, will you inform everyone who calls it a private company that's it's not. It clearly states its a public and all the wrong information being branded out there has upset some people.

Time to set the record straight as we need this project for the sake of the town!

Yes but some of what in that article states is suggesting things that are simply untrue and she is avoiding going into what the problem is, so its not a balanced article.

The councilor in question already clarified why there was a new company setup and she stated very clearly that she does not want the company in question to take over the Metal Man (nor does she herself). The posting seems to want people to draw their own conclusions and I think that's unfair.

The Facebook page was setup by a 14 year old with, it appears, political influences behind the scene. The page has now been removed and rightfully so. It was a farce. Nobody knew who exactly was running it, some comments apparently were being removed (for and against) and some people were apparently banned. The page admins rarely, if ever, answered anybody directly despite repeated questions posed to them by myself and others. We had a councilor posting through the student running the page which was bizarre and inappropriate. Add onto that the abuse dished out on that page by some members of those advocating the handover and the backlash people were getting for not being in favour - it just wasn't working and people were sometimes rightfully pissed off with the page. There wasn't really any misinformation - just the argument back and forth about it being private or public. Its pedantic, but both sides have a right to claim.

I'm not sure why there is so much tension between the two groups - for and against when it could be easily resolved. There is a lack of public awareness and a lack of public knowledge. It hasn't been a transparent approach. There are questions to be answered, and for the love of god answer them and address them so we can move on for the sake of Tramore and for the sake of tourism. Nobody is bigger than the town, and nobody should do this on a solo run 'their way'.

jad2007

Without getting into the whole public / private debate. I would just like to point out some issues around a CPO. Many people are saying sure why dont the council just CPO the land and job done.

Firstly this was suggested before to the council and the reply was that they were not in favour of entering a "potentially open ended legal process".

Secondly there is no real legal history of CPO being used to open a right of way. So it would be breaking new legal ground and could turn very messy ( and expensive).

People should also remember that the Metalman is not in public hands at the moment it belongs to the CLI. If they wanted to the CLI could sell the Metalman in the morning to a private party and there would be very little that could be done about it. Now thats not going to happen but people have to remember that the CLI dont want it and im sure their patience is not limitless

tbayers

Accuse my lack of common sense but CPO?

jad2007

Compulsory Purchase Order

tbayers

Thank you!

Sully

jad2007 wrote: »

Without getting into the whole public / private debate. I would just like to point out some issues around a CPO. Many people are saying sure why dont the council just CPO the land and job done.

Firstly this was suggested before to the council and the reply was that they were not in favour of entering a "potentially open ended legal process".

Secondly there is no real legal history of CPO being used to open a right of way. So it would be breaking new legal ground and could turn very messy ( and expensive).

A fair point, I hadn't heard any response to that suggestion until now.

People should also remember that the Metalman is not in public hands at the moment it belongs to the CLI. If they wanted to the CLI could sell the Metalman in the morning to a private party and there would be very little that could be done about it. Now thats not going to happen but people have to remember that the CLI dont want it and im sure their patience is not limitless

That's not true and is misleading. The Commissioner Of Irish Lights works for the Irish & British governments and is the Lighthouse Authority and a Statutory Corporation. The Board is made up of 12 Commissioners, 4 Officials from Dublin Corporation, the Chief Executive and 4 Heads of Department. This body is covered under Irish law. The organisation works for the state, effectively.

Whereas what is being proposed for the Metal Man is completely different and cannot be compared. It would be run by private individuals, some of whom are business owners. The talk about having representatives from the council is under serious doubt, as stated by the Town Manager. If I heard correctly, they would lose their position on the board of directors as soon as the election is held and there is a small matter of the merging of the two councils which throws another spanner in the works.

This is what annoys me about the campaign. Its like a political referendum - people with agendas trying to push away the facts and surround it with a cloud of nonsense, misleading statements and lies. Both sides are at it.

There are a lot of people jumping down peoples throats for having reservations about it and questioning aspects of the company, as we get when it comes to planning (and look at how planning across Ireland has failed us in recent years). There seems to be people hearing different things and spreading them as fact when its complete bull**** and lies.

All anybody should want is an open, honest and transparent process that would allow the Metal Man be opened, without anybody making a profit from it (or any money from it) and without any risk to the Metal Man. In the mean time, the heritage trail can go ahead without the Metal Man (another rumour being spread, that the heritage trail cant proceed without The Metal Man). If anybody has questions about the process so far, than so be it - let them be heard and let them be answered. The only reason we are having this drama played out in council meetings and in the local media is because of the bitching that is going on and the attempt to force this through without proper public discussion.

tbayers

In the mean time, the heritage trail can go ahead without the Metal Man (another rumour being spread, that the heritage trail cant proceed without The Metal Man).

Yes it can go ahead but the metal man would be the icing on the cake and the biggest drawcard, making the trail way more marketable.