Geordan Murphy V Girvan Dempsey

Sanity_Saviour

Just want to sort out a discussion between a few mates, who do you think was a better full back in an Ireland jersey?

Personally I think Dempsey was more solid option but I'd like to hear your opinions

Risteard

In an Ireland jersey Dempsey, but I think Murphy was/is a more talented rugby player.

CatFromHue

Dempsey for me too.

Podge_irl

Dempsey. I don't think it was that close to be honest.

Clegg

I think the Swerve was a more consistent player and Murphy was the more creative player. Girve was much more dependable though. Murphy was much too flaky for my liking.

P_1

Dempsey was more consistent, you knew what you were getting with him.

Murphy was a bit hit and miss, you could have moments of genius and total brain farts with him.

On balance I'd take the consistent option of Girve the Swirve

Tombo2001

I think Ireland got the most it possibly could from Dempsey, whereas I think it got a small part of what it might have had from Murphy.

Whether that was down to the players or the management team they played under is hard to say.

It is difficult to argue that Ireland got more out of Dempsey, but equally you could make a very strong argument that Murphy was a better player.

In the run up to the 2003 World Cup, Murphy looked phenomenal, it was such a pity he got injured then.

tolosenc

I would start either ahead of ROG in Murrayfield.

P_1

tolosenc wrote: »

I would start either ahead of ROG in Murrayfield.

Tbh I'd start Eddie Heineken if he was irish qualified :pac:

slowburner

Dempsey was utterly dependable but Murphy was a more creative counter attacker. He had to be, as he said himself, he wasn't built to bulldoze.
Neither was Dempsey, but he was more resilient than Murphy and less injury prone.

Dempsey is an unsung hero in the green jersey. Modest, humble, a stalwart, and reliable - a great model for any rugby player.

Superbus

P_1 wrote: »

Tbh I'd start Eddie Heineken if he was irish qualified :pac:

That is a top class recorrection.

Shelflife

At club level Murphy was a better player, at international level Dempsey was the best.

I just feel that murphy while a class player didnt transfer his club skill set (or wasnt able to) to the international stage.

Dempsey was a very underrated full back who just made it look easy with his positional play.

FrPhelimYoung

It shocks me at times all the plaudits Dempsey gets. A very, very ordinary and limited player. It's even more shocking that he won 80+ caps.

Murphy by a country mile. A far more talented and accomplished rugby footballer.

CatFromHue

FrPhelimYoung wrote: »

It shocks me at times all the plaudits Dempsey gets. A very, very ordinary and limited player. It's even more shocking that he won 80+ caps.

Murphy by a country mile. A far more talented and accomplished rugby footballer.

Dempsey was a far more effective player for the teams he played for.

Podge_irl

I would have liked to see Murphy in the Leinster backline to see what he could have done. However, ultimately, his incredibly poor defence, poor option taking under pressure and weakness in contact where simply too big a problem at international level.

its_phil

If it came down to who was in top form heading into a game, I would have chosen Murphy. Just so naturally gifted.

Dempsey was just Mr.Reliable and a huge asset to Irish Rugby. We were lucky to have two excellent fullbacks at our disposal

irishbucsfan

We were never really able to get the best out of Murphy. Such a shame. One of the best backs we produced in the pro era.

Dempsey was superb. We have produced some brilliant fullbacks in the pro era. O'Shea, Murphy, Dempsey, Kearney. A great array of talent.

Teferi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

One of the best backs we produced in the pro era.

Jesus, don't let any Leicester fans hear you say that.

WarKinse

Dempsey without Question, arguably the best fielder of a rugby football that played fullback in the world ever. No need to mention his tries scored or tackles made etc etc

sydneybound

FrPhelimYoung wrote: »

It shocks me at times all the plaudits Dempsey gets. A very, very ordinary and limited player. It's even more shocking that he won 80+ caps.

Murphy by a country mile. A far more talented and accomplished rugby footballer.

Murphy by quite a distance.

The problem here is Dempsey played in Ireland while Murphy was in England, with much less Irish watching the English Prem on a weekly basis. Week in week out Murphy was top class, playing in a very competitive Tigers side. EOS had little or no confidence in Murphy which I think affected him. If he did anything wrong he got dropped straight away however that said EOS liked the more a more measured approach so Dempsey would always have been his man.

I totally agree with another poster Dempsey seems like a gentleman and a great role model and probably much nicer fella than Murphy. I like Murphy and read his book but he did come across big headed at times, Ireland never got the best out of him.

sydneybound

WarKinse wrote: »

arguably the best fielder of a rugby football that played fullback in the world ever

Ever?

Grimebox

tolosenc wrote: »

I would start either ahead of ROG in Murrayfield.

Whats this referring to?

duckysauce

Grimebox wrote: »

Whats this referring to?

thread is a year old

razorblunt

Dempsey for Ireland by some distance for me. Murphy had the better raw talent I suppose and at time had relative armchair ride at Welford Road. Dempsey was just so reliable his full impact was really only noticed when he was gone.

For me, it's a little bit similar to England having Browne and Goode, the former is the more dynamic whereas the latter is the more consistently solid, does the basics well type full back. Saying that though at the moment Browne is covering both aspects.

WarKinse

Definitely, certainly wasn't many braver! Also you could count his knock on's in one hand..

wp_rathead

Girvan is a bit of an enigma in that he seemed to be both underrated and overrated at same time by fans ha

LuckyLloyd

Dempsey was fantastic. So reliable for such a long time.

rrpc

Dempsey for me. Murphy could be brilliant on the counter and was always dependable under the high ball, but his defense could be shockingly bad at times. Perhaps unfairly (but some of those occasions like France 2006 stick in my mind) he got the monicker of 'Turnstiles Murphy' for his poor tackling.

Heroditas

rrpc wrote: »

Dempsey for me. Murphy could be brilliant on the counter and was always dependable under the high ball, but his defense could be shockingly bad at times. Perhaps unfairly (but some of those occasions like France 2006 stick in my mind) he got the monicker of 'Turnstiles Murphy' for his poor tackling.

Yup. France 2006 he was appalling. Again in 2007 when he waved Ibanez through in Croke Park.
Argentina in the last pool game in 2007 he had another stinker and shied away from a lot of the high balls aimed at him.
I think it's also a pretty and post 2003 Murphy question.
Pre the Murrayfield injury in 2003, Murphy was unreal but he was never the same player after that. If he had stayed injury free, I reckon he could have been one of Ireland's all-time greats. However, once he came back from injury, he lacked that bit of genius that made him stand out.
Also prone to some awfully weak defending at times.

For me, I'd rank them:
Pre 2003 Murphy > Dempsey > Post 2003 Murphy

rrpc

Heroditas wrote: »

Pre the Murrayfield injury in 2003, Murphy was unreal but he was never the same player after that. If he had stayed injury free, I reckon he could have been one of Ireland's all-time greats. However, once he came back from injury, he lacked that bit of genius that made him stand out.
Also prone to some awfully weak defending at times.

For me, I'd rank them:
Pre 2003 Murphy > Dempsey > Post 2003 Murphy

I completely forgot about that injury. Certainly there's a case to be made that he could well have been a different player had he not suffered it.

It's certainly a reason why his tackling was so poor at times, couldn't blame him really as it was an awful injury.

CatFromHue

How can a broken leg make you a poor tackler?

rrpc

CatFromHue wrote: »

How can a broken leg make you a poor tackler?

Fear of injury basically.

CatFromHue

In my experience it's people who don't commit to a tackle properly are the ones who get injured.

Murphy was, at times, a bad tackler. That's it.

rrpc

CatFromHue wrote: »

In my experience it's people who don't commit to a tackle properly are the ones who get injured.

Murphy was, at times, a bad tackler. That's it.

Only half joking, but if you just stick out your arm and spin around, you're unlikely to get injured.

Unless you get dizzy and fall over of course :P

CatFromHue

That's known as a drinking game

Grandpa Hassan

Teferi wrote: »

Jesus, don't let any Leicester fans hear you say that.

Really? I'm a Leicester season ticket holder (lived in Dublin for a decade, but you don't give them up). Geordan Murphy is a Leicester legend

He wasn't as bad a tackler as the Irish think. He tackled fine at Leicester. It is just that the 2 or 3 big tackles he missed in an Irish jersey were high profile shockers that led to tries or lost games

Don't get me wrong, his tackling wasn't great, by any stretch. But those missed tackles have made it appear worse that it actually was

Between the two of them, Murphy, for sheer excitement when he had chance to counter

vienne86

Very hard to judge these two against each other when Murphy played in England and Dempsey in Ireland. I would go for Dempsey, but it might just be because I saw him play so many times for Leinster. We were lucky to have the two of them.

Heroditas

Another issue was Murphy being shoehorned onti the wing. Fabulous player but wing just didn't suit him IMO.
We saw some ludicrous decisions where Eddie tried to play both him and Dempsey - one on the wing and one at FB and it just never really worked.
It's a bit like Kidney playing ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 - you'd get away with it (at a push) but it just doesn't feel right and never really "clicks".

WarKinse

sydneybound wrote: »

Ever?

I'm new I meant to quote you. Definitely, certainly wasn't many braver, also you could count his knock on's in one hand

gaius c

Geordan Murphy owes us two grand slams and a triple crown.

Girvan Dempsey owes us nothing.

Molester Stallone

gaius c wrote: »

Geordan Murphy owes us two grand slams and a triple crown..

Send him a bill

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

gaius c wrote: »

Geordan Murphy owes us two grand slams and a triple crown.

Girvan Dempsey owes us nothing.

Neither of them owe us anything. Horrifically sad putting individual errors down to the losing of a championship 5 games long

sydthebeat

gaius c wrote: »

Geordan Murphy owes us two grand slams and a triple crown.

Girvan Dempsey owes us nothing.

Ha ha ha

Classic gaius c....

former legend

When threads come back from the dead for no apparent reason, the results are not usually pretty. No exception here.

digzy

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Neither of them owe us anything. Horrifically sad putting individual errors down to the losing of a championship 5 games long

I accept your point but to be fair that missed tackle against france was the 'inch' we were short that year for the slam.

have ya not seen any given sunday;)

bamboozle

Both we're excellent players, I don't think I ever saw girv drop a ball. One thing that worked very much is dempseys favour was that both the Leinster and Irish back lines he played in had players of top top class creatively the likes of hickie, bod, Darcy, Horgan all scored try's for fun, Dempsey provided that bit of calmness and glue which tied the back line together and made it function well.

Murphy despite his brilliance suffered due to his inability to bulk up and also his occasional poor defence and decision making - more than once he fell foul of one of my cardinal sins of rugby - grubber kicking the ball in possession in the last play of a game where we were losing.

Plus I read Murphy's autobiography and didn't think he came across well in it at all.

Stev_o

Ha it was this thread 6 years ago that got me posting on this Board. Hindsight is great though, back then I was very much a Murphy apologist these days I think it's easier to reflect on the matter. I think Murphy played in the wrong decade, had he played in the amutear era he would of gone down as something very special. As it is I think in an Irish shirt his only real great moments were before his leg break while after that he had ups (Scotland game where Kearney made his intl' debut) and downs (a lot of downs). He was always a different player for the Tigers and would more likely make more of an effort of a tackle at that level then at international.

Dempsey was just a all rounded player, very few fullbacks displayed his consistency.

If anything I feel like Kearney reminds me of a mix between the two, great in attack, cannon boot, great high ball, cross your fingers in defence.

Buer

I don't think it was that Murphy made more of an effort at that level just that international standard demanded less flaws and he was exposed a bit more. The exact same happened on the Lions tour where he struggled badly at times defensively too.

Possibly the only guy who could hold a candle to BOD in terms of sheer skill with the ball in hand though.