Tad right wing, but what do you think?

Chemical Burn

When children were born in the late eighties and early nineties (like me), a heel-prick test was performed, this gave information on all the allergies the child had / might have had.

I am of the opinion, that ALL children (regardless of whether the parents consent or not, even if for silly religious reasons), should have a blood sample taken, along with finger print. These should be kept on file:

My reasons:

If a child's (or even at adult hood) identity is stolen, this situation can be quickly ameliorated.

If a child / adult commits a crime, then he / she can easily be identified from crime scene blood / hair DNA, fingerprints, etc. If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear. This will allow us to circumvent crime especially because of the growing number of Muslims in Ireland because they are wearing the Hijab etc, also the Shiks wearing the towel thing, not saying crime is specific from them, but if their faces are covered it obviously poses a problem in identification.

If a passport is lost abroad, then the person can reenter Ireland with just their fingerprints, easy !!!

I would go one step further, and put tracking devices into children, these can be tracked by parents and maybe a certain number of select Gardaí (possibly just Gardaí, for reasons which are obvious). If the child is kidnapped, the scumbag who kidnapped him / her can easily and quickly be found. If the child is lost the child can also easily be found. Adults, uon reacing the age of 18 can then opt to keep it in, or have it removed. Keeping it in can be a good thing, for example, if a scummy tramp falsely accuses a man of false rape, then he can absolve his name in court by showing where he was with undeniable proof. If a woman is is abused by her husband, then the prick can be brought to justice with this device too. This will not provide any audio or picture of the person, just a satellite location of where he or she is.

So what do you think ??

PLEASE no tl;dr or just replying "no".

Retrovertigo

No.

SV

It's weird because whilst I can see all the benefits of it, it also makes me feel kinda ill to imagine any of it being put into place.

smash

They still do the heel prick test by the way OP.

Lenin Skynard

Those Shiks and their towels are going to cause mayhem sure.

El Guapo!

Chemical Burn wrote: »

This will allow us to circumvent the growing number of Muslims in Ireland because they are wearing the Hijab etc, also the Shiks wearing the towel thing.

Wut??

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

surely that kind of state control over private life is more left wing than right wing

Nodin

This will allow us to circumvent the growing number of Muslims in Ireland because they are wearing the Hijab etc, also the Shiks wearing the towel thing.

Is this some wind-up effort...?

Lollipops23

I would support a DNA database, but not the lo-jacking of kids.

The DNA would help with crimes etc, and if there comes a time that it's cheap and easy to screen blood for genetic illnesses and allergies etc, then having a database would be dead handy.

The lo-jacking is a tad too big brothery or my liking though- people should be able to go about their daily business (even kids) without the state knowing about it.

Chemical Burn

Nodin wrote: »

Is this some wind-up effort...?

I corrected my OP, that's not exactly what I meant. I do apologize.

juice1304

I thing you are very ignorant, arrogant and have been watching too much csi. What happens if someone wears gloves?
Why you think the government should have the right to force people to do anything is beyond me, I also don't know why you think it would be ok to violate someone like that.

Gummy Panda

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

surely that kind of state control over private life is more left wing than right wing

But he did complain about the Muslims!

Stained Class

Good Idea.

Bring the whole population to Heel, I say.

Seachmall

This is the antithesis to the right wing position, OP.


And I'm against it. Even though I've nothing to hide I still like to shit with the door closed.

Best username ever

While I do see the advantages of tagging children, what we have learned is that governments are corrupt, so tagging people like cattle would not be in the best interests of humans in general.

What's more disturbing is that it's going that way, and I'll probably see my grandchildren electronically tagged as standard procedure.

kfallon

smash wrote: »

They still do the heel prick test by the way OP.

They did it to me when I was younger and could instantly tell me Ma, "Yes, he's a prick alright!"

They weren't wrong either

woodoo

I would favour a database of fingerprints and DNA for all people living in ireland.

coolhull

They offered that sort of technology to Hitler, but he passed on it , saying, '' Thanks but it's a bit too fascist for me''

hames

I think your argument would necessarily pivot around the principle that those who have nothing to hide have nothing to lose, which has been pretty well debunked by now. After all, you probably don't take poos in public, do you? Privacy matters.

Privacy matters for many reasons, but one argument suggests that society could find it more difficult to progress in the absence, or diminution, of privacy. That occasionally, human progress requires that laws be broken.

For example, if this surveillance were around in somewhere like Iran (or 1950s Ireland), would it have been used to prosecute two men engaging in consensual sex? If it had been used in such an invasive way, would gay rights ever have been established?

monkeypants

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

surely that kind of state control over private life is more left wing than right wing

I think you'll find it's common to both at a certain level.

Chemical Burn

woodoo wrote: »

I would favour a database of fingerprints and DNA for all people living in ireland.

All people ENTERING Ireland, even as tourists. Crime does not discriminate between tourists and permanent residents.

Seachmall

monkeypants wrote: »

I think you'll find it's common to both at a certain level.

The right wing position is strictly libertarian with minimal government involvement and control.

HondaSami

OP you basically want to tag every child that is born? what a horrible idea.

Nodin

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I corrected my OP, that's not exactly what I meant. I do apologize.

Its not really been improved -

This will allow us to circumvent crime from the growing number of Muslims in Ireland because they are wearing the Hijab etc, also the Shiks wearing the towel thing, not saying crime is specific from them, but if their faces are covered it obviously poses a problem in identification.

The hijab is a head scarf. The Sikhs wear a turban. Neither obscure the face.

If you aren't saying crime is specific problem with them, why are you talking about this methodology allowing the state to " circumvent crime from the growing number of Muslims in Ireland because they are wearing the Hijab etc, also the Shiks wearing the towel thing".

El Guapo!

The DNA and fingerprint thing is fine by me.
As was said, if you've nothing to hide then it will make no difference to your life whatsoever. Only conspiracy theorists or criminals will have anything against that motion.
The tracking device is a bit much in my opinion. That's too much of an invasion of privacy and a little bit weird I think.

Best username ever

coolhull wrote: »

They offered that sort of technology to Hitler, but he passed on it , saying, '' Thanks but it's a bit too fascist for me''

Actually he took up the idea, IBM created the tagging system that hitler used for the Jews.

hames

On this topic, if you were born after 1984, and you want the details of your heel prick test to be kept and not destroyed next month, you need to get in touch with the HSE

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2013/0205/1224329653693.html

Personally I think these are a valuable resource and don't want my records destroyed.

keith16

Ameliorate.

Ameliorate almost crashed into Earth last night.

A-M-E-L-I-O-R-A-T-E.

twinQuins

Seachmall wrote: »

The right wing position is strictly libertarian with minimal government involvement and control.

News to me. Right-wingers may favour lax government involvement in economics but I've never met one that's for less control in people's private lives, quite the opposite.

And I've always heard that libertarianism is left-wing socially (on issues like this, for example) but right-wing economically.

juice1304

Chemical Burn wrote: »

All people ENTERING Ireland, even as tourists. Crime does not discriminate between tourists and permanent residents.

Do you really believe the gardai go around looking for a single hair on the ground etc.. when they don't have enough cars or petrol to do their job as it is.

I think you are living in a fantasy. Would you really trust a government that sells the country out from under the people, makes the tax payer pay for the mistakes of a private company, gives away hundreds of billions euros in natural resources while having some of the highest wages politicians have throughout the world. letting the disables and disadvantaged suffer because they can't speak out. Or the gardai who will let you get away with anything if you have enough money or know someone. Or the corrupt justice system that puts a dangerous garlic smuggler in prison for six years even though he paid all the tax back in full, while letting a politician do the same thing and nothing happens.

If you want to have the database for crime why not have everyone ware a tracking device or have one implanted. or have cameras on every street with facial recognition software and drones in the countryside. If you have noting to hide then why not:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
or
They should just enact martial law have soldiers on the streets checking for ID that would stop crime.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

tayto lover

Didn't King Herod try to do that?
Every birth had to be registered already here.

Nothing gets me more than the "nothing to hide" argument
Christ

Nodin

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't King Herod try to do that?
Every birth had to be registered already here.

...I think that was the 'belly stab' test.

mattjack

I'd be in favour of doing what they did in that film Logans Run.

Seachmall

twinQuins wrote: »

News to me. Right-wingers may favour lax government involvement in economics but I've never met one that's for less control in people's private lives, quite the opposite.

That's primarily because its a position that has widely been diluted with (Christian) Conservatism (e.g. on topics such as drugs and abortion).

Edit - Nope, ignore this.

Pottler

But what about if we want to commit crime? This could be a severe impediment. Personally, bank-robber is my plan B. Your idea would feck that right up, now, wouldn't it.

monkeypants

Seachmall wrote: »

The right wing position is strictly libertarian with minimal government involvement and control.

Adolf was a libertarian?

woodoo

Chemical Burn wrote: »

All people ENTERING Ireland, even as tourists. Crime does not discriminate between tourists and permanent residents.

I'm not sure it would be practical to ask tourists to give a sample and then have it analysed. But anyone looking to work here or looking for a PPSN should have it done and have to pay for it themselves.

Seachmall

monkeypants wrote: »

Adolf was a libertarian?

Ignore everything I've said.

Although he was socialist (left wing), albeit Nationalist (right wing).

Sh1tbag OToole

I am not in favour of Big Brother / 1984 style government initiatives or further encroachment of privacy of any kind. Using muslims or paedophiles or "scum" as an excuse does not make it alright. Yes there is a bit of crime around but I don't sit inside with the doors locked quaking in my boots over muslim women hiding stolen goods beneath their veil or other Daily Mail scaremongering to the extend that I want to give up more freedom to the government

Chemical Burn

woodoo wrote: »

I'm not sure it would be practical to ask tourists to give a sample and then have it analysed. But anyone looking to work here or looking for a PPSN should have it done and have to pay for it themselves.

Just fingerprinting, like when entering USA.

catallus

Maybe we should just concentrate on the people who come to the attention of the police? If a person is convicted of a serious crime perhaps there could be an argument for a permanent record of their unique samples to be kept?

twinQuins

Oh , you're one of those people... Hitler was a fascist, fascism is a far right ideology.

Simply because the Nazi party had the word "socialist" in their name no more makes them socilaists then me calling myself a stone makes that true.

Seachmall

twinQuins wrote: »

Oh , you're one of those people... Hitler was a fascist, fascism is a far right ideology.

Simply because the Nazi party had the word "socialist" in their name no more makes them socilaists then me calling myself a stone makes that true.

Well Hitler did repeatedly state socialism to be the preferred economic system.

Whether he applied that belief is a different matter, but he did consider the Nazi part to be socialist (presumably because he wasn't a fan of capitalism).

Chemical Burn

twinQuins wrote: »

Oh , you're one of those people... Hitler was a fascist, fascism is a far right ideology.

Simply because the Nazi party had the word "socialist" in their name no more makes them socilaists then me calling myself a stone makes that true.

This.

"Democratic" Republic of Congo

"Democratic" Republic of Korea

Deutsche "Demokratische" Republik (DDR), ie, former East Germany

CollardGreens

:eek: The're com'en for our guns Billy Earl!!!! Run for your life.......

coolhull

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I am not in favour of Big Brother / 1984 style government initiatives or further encroachment of privacy of any kind. Using muslims or paedophiles or "scum" as an excuse does not make it alright. Yes there is a bit of crime around but I don't sit inside with the doors locked quaking in my boots over muslim women hiding stolen goods beneath their veil or other Daily Mail scaremongering to the extend that I want to give up more freedom to the government

Bit if a generalisation, lumping them together, don't you think/

Sh1tbag OToole

coolhull wrote: »

Bit if a generalisation, lumping them together, don't you think/

Those are just some of the common boogeymen trotted out to make people give up their civil liberties.

Chemical Burn wrote: »

This.

"Democratic" Republic of Congo

"Democratic" Republic of Korea

Deutsche "Demokratische" Republik (DDR), ie, former East Germany

Democratic People's republic of Korea
People's Republic of China (The P should really be Party's)

Real people's democracies don't feel the need to put that kind of thing in their name.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

socialism = good
hitler = bad

therefore hitler could not have been a socialist

it's pretty ****ing simple in fairness

catallus

I think the actual word "socialist" had different connotations pre-WWII, it developed a different meaning in the 50's USA when it became conflated with the idea of Communism by the anti-communists for whatever reasons. Just because the Nazis had it in the name of their party should be seen from that perspective; anyway the Nazis usually styled themselves more on what they were against; They were against Bolshevism and Jews, and they designed themselves around that, aswell as Mussolini's fascists.

Anyway, the more I think about it the more I think we should allow a permanent database of convicted criminals.

hames

It's better to try and think of left and right as moving around a sphere symbolising our political paradigm.

If you go far enough on the left, you'll bump into the right.
If you go far enough on the right, you'll bump into the left.

If you're on the posterior surface of the sphere you're probably on the loony scale, with ideas that belong both on the right and left.
If you're on the anterior surface of the sphere, your ideas can be more plainly deciphered as 'right' or 'left' relative to the starting point.