Scotland vs Ireland buildup

thomond2006

As suggested by the mods...

A 29 man squad has just been announced for the game:

Preliminary Ireland Six Nations squad:
Rory Best, Darren Cave, Tom Court, Sean Cronin, James Coughlan, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald, Declan Fitzpatrick, Craig Gilroy, Robbie Henshaw, Jamie Heaslip, Ian Henderson, Chris Henry, Paddy Jackson, Rob Kearney, David Kilcoyne, Luke Marshall, Fergus McFadden, Conor Murray, Sean O'Brien, Donncha O'Callaghan, Brian O'Driscoll, Ronan O'Gara, Peter O'Mahony, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Donnacha Ryan, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner

Headlines:

• Scan for Chris Henry tomorrow on knee injury
• Luke Marshall is ok
• ROG and Jackson are the outhalves.
• Coughlan, Stevenson and Toner in as cover.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2013/0217/368225-henry-and-mashall-in-29-man-ireland-squad/

Broken Down:
Rory Best, Sean Cronin,
David Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick,
Donnacha Ryan, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner, Donncha O'Callaghan
Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, Ian Henderson, James Coughlan,

Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan,
Ronan O'Gara, Paddy Jackson,
Fergus McFadden, Luke Marshall, Brian O'Driscoll, Darren Cave
Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald, Craig Gilroy,
Robbie Henshaw, Rob Kearney

ScissorPaperRock

Why Declan!!!???? Why!!!!????

thomond2006

#ABR

decisions

Madigan for the Leinster game then, grand.

awec

So who do you reckon the 6 will be that get cut? I imagine Cave and Toner won't be in the 23.

93 days

Glass Prison 1214

This is just such an injustice.

decisions

I'm thinking Cave, Coughlan, Luke Fitz/Ferg, Dev and Stevenson will be cut.

Hagz

Deleted User wrote: »

93 days

That's all that's keeping me sane. Only 2 more squad announcement before we (hopefully) see the back of him.

But then I live in fear that the next coach will make the same errors.

[Jackass]

I think it's important to remember that Madigan, Jackson & Keatley have pretty much played against every single player in this scottish squad many times, more than likely hammered them many times, have played in Murrayfield many times, have played in front of sold out crowds many times - but this competition is called the six nations so on that basis it would be obsurd to suggest anyone but ROG starts. Kidney logic holds.

(also important to note that the Scottish 10 is a whole year older than Madigan, so it would be men against boys stuff)

Grimebox

Lol

Hype710

Possible debut for Coughlan so with Henry doubtful?

Hagz

In fairness, you need a player with proven quality and experience to stand up against Ruairidh Jackson.

thomond2006

From what's there, I'd like to see:

Kilcoyne, Best, Ross, Ryan, Stevenson, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, BOD, Gilroy, Kearney

Bench: Cronin, Court, Fitzpatrick, DOC, Henry/Coughlan, Reddan, ROG, Fitzgerald

.ak

FYI there's still availability if anyone wants to write up a preview for this game. See here.

P_1

To be honest I would be much more annoyed if I wasn't expecting it.

I'm getting very tired of the conservative dross that is continually being served up by Kidney though. I fully expect Visser, Hogg and Maitland to get a lovely supply of ball kicked to them on Sunday.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

From what's there, I'd like to see:

Kilcoyne, Best, Ross, Ryan, Stevenson, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, BOD, Gilroy, Kearney

Bench: Cronin, Court, Fitzpatrick, DOC, Henry/Coughlan, Reddan, ROG, Fitzgerald

Second row is a tough one, think Id start DOC though and I'd absolutely have Henderson in there somewhere whether as bench lock or as an injury replacement for Henry.

ScissorPaperRock

Henderson definitely deserves to be involved

thomond2006

I gotta admit my selection of Coughlan is a bit one eyed, he's one player who I think really deserves a full cap. He's been a real leader at Munster.

CatFromHue

Annabella1

Starting 15

Kilcoyne Best Ross Ryan DOC POM SOB Heaslip
Murray ROG Earls McFadden BOD Gilroy Kearney

DK wont start Jackson in Murrayfield
I admit ROG has been poor but he can step up

This team will win there I believe

awec

The past number of years would tell us that he can no longer step up.

Too many people think we are magically going to see the ROG of years gone by, who is going to have some sort of romantic and poetic resurgence in form.

The second coming of ROG. I think not.

sydthebeat

I'm glad marshall is ok because that sort of covers one possibility.... It should be him in inside centre ahead of both mcfadden and earls. Earls on wing with mc fadden as the quarter cover on bench.

At least that arrangement would lead to some attacking options, but please god no rog / earls 10_12 axis

jacothelad

Annabella1 wrote: »

Starting 15

Kilcoyne Best Ross Ryan DOC POM SOB Heaslip
Murray ROG Earls McFadden BOD Gilroy Kearney

DK wont start Jackson in Murrayfield
I admit ROG has been poor but he can step up

This team will win there I believe

A player representing his country shouldn't be in a position where he needs to step up. It is such an incredible situation that a coaches favouritism should jeopardise the whole team.

Suasdaguna1

People talking of an easy win is utter tosh......they know who is the weak link so do we.

They will lock and load in this area. Our fellow celts could easily take the win.

thomond2006

jacothelad wrote: »

A player representing his country shouldn't be in a position where he needs to step up. It is such an incredible situation that a coaches favouritism should jeopardise the whole team.

The stepping up should be done week in week out at provincial level.

Only players like BOD and POC who have rarely performed poorly in any game over an extensive period should be automatic picks.

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

The stepping up should be done week in week out at provincial level.

Only players like BOD and POC who have rarely performed poorly in any game over an extensive period should be automatic picks.

Is POC still an automatic starting pick?

Lelantos

awec wrote: »

Is POC still an automatic starting pick?

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.

Ardillaun

The Scottish back three will hurt us if they get some decent ball and Kearney would have his hands full matching Hogg in a foot race. It's good to see the Scots backline beginning to gel. But just not yet, O Lord.

corny

ROG was never special when it came to putting others in space but these days its not even funny the trouble he causes the men outside him. The Scots are going to ritually catch us well behind the gain line and the field position that yields will win them the game.

And i'm not being funny here but if Johnny Beattie runs at ROG he's going to hurt him.

pc7

I am so wary of Scotland this weekend, I'm heading over for the game and I'm not confident of a win. I was in Murrayfield two years ago and it wasn't pretty but we ground it out and got the win.
This time round Scotland have a new coach, their last result was a good one that they will want to build on, home game, as opposed to us on the back of a pretty disheartening defeat at home, lots of injuries and 2nd choices for positions, new combinations, people may be playing out of position, people playing who are on the wain. I'm seriously worried that it'll be another Sunday of disappointment.
Now on the up side I'm not good at calling games, I thought Wales might beat us, thought we'd beat England, so what the hell do I know!

jack01986

So frustrating!!

Otacon

.ak wrote: »

FYI there's still availability if anyone wants to write up a preview for this game. See here.

I think people are afraid to write it, due to the ban that will surely follow...






...from all of the expletives they will end up using.

totallegend

Here's an interesting fact courtesy of the Sunday Times:

Scotland have not won consecutive Six Nations matches since 2001.
In 2001, they beat Italy at Murrayfield. Guess who their next* match was against? Yep, a 32-10 thumping of Ireland in Murrayfield.


*Actually six months later due to Foot & Mouth

tbm

I was expecting this, but I suppose given the rugby that was played at the weekend I had hoped that DK might see the bigger picture. Now that it's happened I'm just fuming.

moycullen14

totallegend wrote: »

Here's an interesting fact courtesy of the Sunday Times:

Scotland have not won consecutive Six Nations matches since 2001.
In 2001, they beat Italy at Murrayfield. Guess who their next* match was against? Yep, a 32-10 thumping of Ireland in Murrayfield.


*Actually six months later due to Foot & Mouth

Of all the grand slam, triple crown, championship near misses, I always felt this was the worst. Beat everyone and lose to a fairly poor scotland :-(

Grimebox

I think Italy made them look better than they are to be honest. Two of their tries were incredibly soft; the intercept and where the ball spilled out of a rook. Even with ROG, I think Ireland are still huge favourites.

kevyg

I think the Scots will be licking their lips for Sunday. Big games needed from lots of players and have to say wouldn't be surprised if dk played Jackson to see how he goes. Even he must know a near 36 year old only has max 1 year left in him

totallegend

Grimebox wrote: »

I think Italy made them look better than they are to be honest. Two of their tries were incredibly soft; the intercept and where the ball spilled out of a rook. Even with ROG, I think Ireland are still huge favourites.

Paddy Power have us as three-point favourites on the handicap, not exactly a ringing endorsement.

You're definitely right that the scoreline flattered Scotland two weeks ago. Hogg's length-of-the-field intercept should have been an Italy try so that was a 14-point swing in one go.

I really can't call this game. Even with our injuries, we should have the personnel to beat Scotland but the manner of the defeat to England has me very worried.

Barzipan

corny wrote: »

ROG was never special when it came to putting others in space but these days its not even funny the trouble he causes the men outside him. The Scots are going to ritually catch us well behind the gain line and the field position that yields will win them the game.

And i'm not being funny here but if Johnny Beattie runs at ROG he's going to hurt him.

Think people are losing the run of themselves a little with the ROG thing. His defence has always been his weakness and his current form is poor but its unlikely anything apocalyptic is going to happen by him playing against Scotland. He is the second most capped player in rugby union history - Johnny Beattie running at him is not going to scare him. Wouldn't be surprised with all the negative publicity if he actually has a decent game.

I don't think he should be starting or in the squad and I'm looking forward to the end of DK's contract.

stephen_n

Kidney once again proving that form is irrelevant when it comes to selection. I hate to say it but I hope Ireland are destroyed by Scotland, if it ensures a quicker end to Kidneys reign it will be far better for Irish rugby.

D1stant

stephen_n wrote: »

Kidney once again proving that form is irrelevant when it comes to selection. I hate to say it but I hope Ireland are destroyed by Scotland, if it ensures a quicker end to Kidneys reign it will be far better for Irish rugby.

Ah come on

Lelantos

It's going to be a long, long week on here.

Otacon

stephen_n wrote: »

Kidney once again proving that form is irrelevant when it comes to selection. I hate to say it but I hope Ireland are destroyed by Scotland, if it ensures a quicker end to Kidneys reign it will be far better for Irish rugby.

D1stant wrote: »

Ah come on

I will always want Ireland to win, always. But I have never been less passionate about that aim as I am now.

CIARAN_BOYLE

If I had to pick a team from the named 29 it would be

(1-8)Kilcoyne Best Ross Ryan Stevenson SOB Henry Heaslip
(9-15)Murray Jackson Fitzgerald Marshall BOD Gilroy Kearney
(16-23)Cronin Court Fitzpatrick DOC POM Reddan McFadden Earls

feck it I'd be happier leaving ROG out all together and giving Jackson 80 minutes with Marshall as 10 cover in case of injury than letting ROG into the 23

totallegend

Otacon wrote: »

I will always want Ireland to win, always. But I have never been less passionate about that aim as I am now.

I want Ireland to win.

But if we're going to lose, I'd like something positive to come of it.

So if we lose, I don't want us to have any excuses about the bounce of a ball or an unlucky refereeing decison that will allow Kidney and his dwindling band of apologists to ponder what might have been.

I don't want to hear anyone saying "oh, if only we'd had our full team available..."; Kidney has made a big deal out of how much squad-building he's been doing, let's see the proof of it now.

If that means we have to take a 20-point hammering to move things along, then so be it.

Jesus I'll be a mess of conflicting emotions by the time Sunday comes around.

stephen_n

Otacon wrote: »

I will always want Ireland to win, always. But I have never been less passionate about that aim as I am now.

I would have said the same but it seems to me that it will require something catastrophic for the IRFU to end this frustration. No provincial leanings involved ROG is just not good enough anymore and the fact that Kidney can't and won't see that is just final straw.

jacothelad

Irrespective of the daft O'Gara saga, we have now to begin to be realistic about our players and the quality of those who are / have replaced the greats of 2001 to 2009. Just off the top of my head a quick, non scientific comparison is:

Kilcoyne and Healy (Court) are as good, there or thereabouts at l/h as the Claw and certainly Horan and offer mobility in the loose.
Advantage +1

Best, Strauss, Cronin, (Sherry) v. Woody, Sheahan and Flannery. Mmm. Best is very good, as are the others in different ways. Not as good as Wood.
Advantage -1

Ross, Fitzpatrick.(Andress) v. Hayes and Buckley. Hayes rarely let us down, Buckley struggled at times. Again I would say little difference overall. I'll be very surprised if Moore and Furlong don't feature very soon to our gain though.
Adv. 0

Ryan, McCarthy, Toner, DOC, Tuohy(Henderson) v. Davidson, Galwey, POC, DOC, Mal. O'Kelly, Longwell. Not in the same class. Henderson looks a great prospect but that's all he is at the moment.
Adv. -1

POM. Ferris, Henry, Sob, Heaslip v. Easterby, Wallace, Leamy and Foley. Not a lot in it. Wally was probably the best of the bunch. Adv. 0

Murray, Reddan, v Stringer. Adv -1

Sexton, Madigan, Keatley, Jackson (J.J.?) v. ROG and Humphreys...Adv. 0

Marshall, McSharry v. Darcy and Wallace. It's hard to say as they offer slightly different skills but without any evidence to the contrary - just a lot of hope...Adv. -1

Earls v BOD ....Adv -3

Wings are possibly many and varied and in Zebo I think we have a true gem in the making so balancing up the likes of him, Fitz, Gilroy and Earls I'd say - even against Hickie it's Adv +1

Kearney v. Murphy and Dempsey. Kearney is a good player but despite his seemingly simpler style, contentious I know, I think Dempsey was better, more effective player. Adv. -1

I know there are other prospects but I've just stuck to ones that have been used as far as is sort of sensible. Overall we have the law of diminishing returns at play. Going into the future we are better off at loose head and in the wings but worse off in 5 other positions and just about breaking even in 2.



Edited to change the inside centre stuff.

sydthebeat

my team for saturday

Kilcoyne Best Ross
Ryan Toner
POM SOB Heaslip

Murray Jackson
Fitzy Mc Fadden BOD Gilroy

Kearney

totallegend

jacothelad wrote: »

Marshall, McSharry v. Darcy and Wallace. It's hard to say as they offer slightly different skills but without any evidence to the contrary - just a lot of hope...Adv. 0

I'm sorry now but WTF like? I know you're a big fan of Marshall but to say that two guys with zero caps between them are as good as D'Arcy and Wallace were in the noughties is sheer nonsense.

Kayless

I reckon Kidney will start with ROG and end up having to replace him, for Jackson esp if the Jocks have the upper hand come half time and that will be the end of ROG at this level