Entry point for gaming PC

Pokora

Hi to everyone, just registered to get some opinions on my future build.
Right now I'm saving money for all of that stuff, since it's not gonna be cheap anywhere even from start. What I plan is to prepare for future upgrades including full water-cooling system and obviously sli configurations.

So, my budget would be around 1.5k euro (1500 ) hopefully including monitor, though the one I'm posting here is a bit over that. Not sure if it's worth as much : )

This is what I currently 'basketed' at hardwareversand (they had pretty much everything in one place, so it'll turn out cheaper than buying in multiple places):

Item|Price
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€200.31
16GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600)|€97.24
MSI N660Ti Power Edition 2GD5/OC, GeForce GTX 660Ti, 2048MB DDR5|€275.10
SEAGATE Constellation ES.3 7200 1TB|€113.39
NZXT Switch 810 Big-Tower White, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€174.37
Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme|€72.63
Enermax Platimax 750W|€173.72
OCZ Vertex 4 256GB|€201.59
3 x Enermax T.B.Silence PWM 12cm|€28.74
LG DM2752D 3D|€299.00
MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3), Intel Z68, ATX, DDR3|€144.89
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1799.97

So, I don't need kb/m since I already have one. I also do have a BenQ monitor, but want to leave it for use with laptop for my friend. The choice of monitor was gaming/media based, no photo/video editing. I'm not bent on 3D, but it seems to be a quite nice 2D display, and it never hurts to have an extra, right? ^^

Obviously I will be overclocking this rig. As for the payment I can use either credit card or paypal. Wonder if I could get financing at the shop mentioned - anyone knows about that ?

Also I do not need a copy of windows, got my '8' long ago ; )

Hope I kept to the guidelines at least a bit, and it's gonna be easy to read.

Any suggestions on top of what I have? Did I miss anything? Is there any place cheaper/better etc. etc.

Thanks for all replies ; )

AlmightyCushion

Is there something fancy about that 1TB hard drive? If not it seems very over priced. You should be able to pick up a 1TB for half that, a 2TB for a bit more and a 3TB for similar money to the 1TB linked.

You should be going for a Z77 motherboard (unless a newer chipset has come out since the Z77). Asrock usually get recommended a bit here and will probably be a bit cheaper. Someone else will be able to advise you further.

Power supply is overkill. Even if you do want to get something that will handle SLI/CrossFire you could get one cheaper than that.

Polar Ice

For that much money (1800) you don't seem to be getting much.

Pokora wrote: »

Wonder if I could get financing at the shop mentioned - anyone knows about that ?

Since you mentioned it, NEVER use credit to purchase a computer (or anything that depreciates in value). It's just bad money management.

TerrorFirmer

For someone who doesn't actually have the money, you seem a bit obsessed with spending every cent you can - you could build a machine with exactly the same power or more for almost half what you're spending there. If it's gaming based....you don't need 16gb ram, swap 660ti for 7950, you could get a nice case for half or a third of that price, could definitely get a cheaper cooler, PSU is overkill even for sli/crossfire, get a 64gb ssd+1tb combo....

Don't get me wrong if you have the money then sure, whatever you want, but when you're talking about getting credit, why not just actually buy within your means and tone down all the frivolous aspects of the build and end up with a machine with the same performance for about 600 or 700 less?

M00lers

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

For someone who doesn't actually have the money, you seem a bit obsessed with spending every cent you can - you could build a machine with exactly the same power or more for almost half what you're spending there. If it's gaming based....you don't need 16gb ram, swap 660ti for 7950, you could get a nice case for half or a third of that price, could definitely get a cheaper cooler, PSU is overkill even for sli/crossfire, get a 64gb ssd+1tb combo....

Don't get me wrong if you have the money then sure, whatever you want, but when you're talking about getting credit, why not just actually buy within your means and tone down all the frivolous aspects of the build and end up with a machine with the same performance for about 600 or 700 less?

+1 to this. At least he asked, hopefully he can be steered in the right direction.

Pokora

Woah, woah, slow down. I didn't mean credit card as to take a credit. Meant to pay the whole sum right away ; )

Ok, so now some more explanations will be needed ^^

I'm bent on MSI, so if you know of any other decent board that could handle better cpu in future (the z77 i saw had pretty weak cpu power line from what I read) - http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/57133/MSI+Z77A-G45%2C+Intel+Z77%2C+ATX%2C+DDR3.article
Tell me what you think, or suggest any other MSI board ; P

16GB ram WILL be needed. Upgrades, and upgrades. At the moment I'm learning UnrealScript and some 3D modeling, to use in UDK, so these 2 itself could deficit from 16 gigs, that's it.

The case is just my personal taste + lots of space.

About the HDD, nothing really fancy, just fast access times, read times and supposedly durability ; ) If you can advise anything better I'd gladly go with that.

Would 7950 still be better considering the benefits of CUDA in programming ? And I really do love PhysX abilities as well, though it's not as important.

And someone please explain why is this PSU an overkill ^^ I don't know much about PSUs myself, so just asked for a good quality one, without crazy wattage... =/
I was looking at an OCZ modxstream 750 before, but they don't have one over here, also was told, they tend to get faulty ... please advise further ^^

Still, I don't need same power with lower quality just to save a hundred or two, but I don't want to go overboard. Thanks for all replies, waiting for more x)

Gumbi

Pokora wrote: »

Woah, woah, slow down. I didn't mean credit card as to take a credit. Meant to pay the whole sum right away ; )

Ok, so now some more explanations will be needed ^^

I'm bent on MSI, so if you know of any other decent board that could handle better cpu in future (the z77 i saw had pretty weak cpu power line from what I read) - http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/57133/MSI+Z77A-G45%2C+Intel+Z77%2C+ATX%2C+DDR3.article
Tell me what you think, or suggest any other MSI board ; P

16GB ram WILL be needed. Upgrades, and upgrades. At the moment I'm learning UnrealScript and some 3D modeling, to use in UDK, so these 2 itself could deficit from 16 gigs, that's it.

The case is just my personal taste + lots of space.

About the HDD, nothing really fancy, just fast access times, read times and supposedly durability ; ) If you can advise anything better I'd gladly go with that.

Would 7950 still be better considering the benefits of CUDA in programming ? And I really do love PhysX abilities as well, though it's not as important.

And someone please explain why is this PSU an overkill ^^ I don't know much about PSUs myself, so just asked for a good quality one, without crazy wattage... =/
I was looking at an OCZ modxstream 750 before, but they don't have one over here, also was told, they tend to get faulty ... please advise further ^^

Still, I don't need same power with lower quality just to save a hundred or two, but I don't want to go overboard. Thanks for all replies, waiting for more x)

I'm not an expert, but here's what I think. The PSU is much too powerful, and highly efficient (platinum-rated). A 450/550 Bronze-rated Super Flower for a third of the price should do fine.

As for the RAM, it's REALLY difficult to end up using 16GB, I don't think you would benefit from the extra 8GB, but I'd wait to hear more on that from more learned members.

I've heard only great things about Asrock boards, I have one myself and it does the job. This and another computer building forum I visit virtually only suggest Pro3/4 Asrock mobos.

Monotype

What about this PSU instead:
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/600+-+700+Watts/33057/Super-Flower+SF700P14XE+Golden+Green+80plus+gold+Modular.article

600W would actually be enough for two 7950s. With overclocking. But 700W would give you room for extras (watercooling, or other upgrades).

That's a pretty good value board alright. One of the cheapest Z77 boards suitable for SLI/Crossfire. There's also the GD55 for a bit more with a few extra features thrown in, if you want to stick with MSI. It's probably unnecessary to be spending more than that unless you want specific features.
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/57132/MSI+Z77A-GD55%2C+Intel+Z77%2C+ATX%2C+DDR3.article

Pokora

A bit worried about the brand - first time hearing about it. Anybody have experience with them ? It has only 1 PCI-E pin, wouldn't it be a problem with adding more powerful cards in SLI later on ? Like, I said, I'm pretty green in PSU topic, but willing to learn ; )

Also GD55 doesn't support 1600mhz ram bus... so why is it more expensive? What's better on it ?

Monotype

Which? Superflower? Yeah, they're very reliable. Their high end ones anyway. They supply a lot of other brand names and make the PSUs themselves. They've been recommended here hundreds of times.

Here's a review on jonnyguru, one of the best PSU review sites on the planet, testing the 800W version.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=229

Check the review database for more specific to the 700W, linked in my signature.

Edit: No, hardwareversand have it wrong.
It has 2 x PCI-E 6 pin and
2 x PCI-E 8 pin
which is plenty for two cards.
http://www.super-flower.com.tw/products_detail.php?class=2&sn=8&ID=3&lang=en

Gumbi

Monotype wrote: »

What about this PSU instead:
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/600+-+700+Watts/33057/Super-Flower+SF700P14XE+Golden+Green+80plus+gold+Modular.article

600W would actually be enough for two 7950s. With overclocking. But 700W would give you room for extras (watercooling, or other upgrades).

That's a pretty good value board alright. One of the cheapest Z77 boards suitable for SLI/Crossfire. There's also the GD55 for a bit more with a few extra features thrown in, if you want to stick with MSI. It's probably unnecessary to be spending more than that unless you want specific features.
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/57132/MSI+Z77A-GD55%2C+Intel+Z77%2C+ATX%2C+DDR3.article

The poster intends to use 2 7950s? My bad then on suggesting 450w SF.

marco_polo

Pokora wrote: »

A bit worried about the brand - first time hearing about it. Anybody have experience with them ? It has only 1 PCI-E pin, wouldn't it be a problem with adding more powerful cards in SLI later on ? Like, I said, I'm pretty green in PSU topic, but willing to learn ; )

Also GD55 doesn't support 1600mhz ram bus... so why is it more expensive? What's better on it ?

The memory controller is on all newer AMD and Intel CPUs nowadays so the board doesn't have much to do with it. You could go all the way up to DDR3-2667 if so desired.

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z77A-GD65.html#/?div=Detail

Pokora

Ok, that's great then ^^

Thanks to everyone for the great insight. Superbly helpful ; )

Also, does anybody here have anything to say about that display? I can't find any consistent opinions on it. Like the black bleeding and colors. It also seems to have a bit of an input lag... what do you think ?

Many thanks once again ; )

PS. About RAM, any1 here doing 3D modeling/CAD or sorts to confirm that I wouldn't need >8GB ?

theidiots

If you have the funds look into a catleap monitor. Maybe you should get 16GB Ram now. The thing about updating ram is that you need identical sticks or it will cause problems. Maybe 12 months down the line the ram you have mighn't be available or will be looking for second hand ram or will have to buy comletely new sticks and dump/sell the old ram. 8GB will be more than enough for what you need now.

Pokora

Catleap... funny stuff. Never had a chance to play around on WQHD resolution though. Much quality loss playing on lower resolution(1080p) in-game ?

And again, if any1 have experience with said monitor, please share it ^^ I'd gladly postpone monitor buying if this is worth it, and google says it's quite a nice piece of hardware xP

theidiots

have one ordered, but the standard these days is a normal 1080P monitor, not a lot of people have catleaps

BloodBath

That's way too much to be spending for your requirements anyway.

A lot of overly expensive parts that will have 0 impact on the performance of your pc.

That 3d screen will only be good for movies, not games.

Anyway here's a similar build at a better price point with at least the same performance. There will be better game performance with the 7950 over the 660ti.

The script isn't working on HWVS at the moment so no nice tidy table.
Big ugly screenshot instead.



That leaves about €500 for a case and monitor. I only went with the extreme 4 board as it supports sli as well as crossfire. The pro 4 is €30 cheaper but crossfire only. Power supply is overkill for the build but will have enough overhead for 2 overclocked cards and cpu.

Pokora

BloodBath, you seem to be missing a few points I mentioned... also no actual explanation why this instead of anything else... good gaming performance... as far as I saw similar performance on both 660ti and 7950, but 7950 seems to be more like 'all over the chart' for different stuff, not really consistent. Prove me wrong. Also I asked about CUDA - though this question was directed at ppl that actually use it and can say it's not worth it.

BloodBath

What points?

Well if you think cuda is worth it for you go for the Nvidia card. OpenCL is no use to you then?

As for the cards the 660ti has trailed behind the 7950. It's still a good card and still in performance but overall the 7950 is a better card for the money. The 7950 is more in line with a 670gtx at stock. It has unlocked voltages and dual BIOS as well unlike the Nvidia cards so overclocking it by 30-40% is usually pretty easy.

There's very little a 660ti will beat a 7950 in benchmarks with.

Sarz91

Pokora wrote: »

PS. About RAM, any1 here doing 3D modeling/CAD or sorts to confirm that I wouldn't need >8GB ?

I dunno if anyone has already answered this but I'll give my 2 cents. I've been running AutoCAD mechanical as well as Creo Parametric 2 when designing parts. I then generally import these models into Ansys for either stress testing with FEA or Fluid Flow with FLUENT. I've used both 16GBs and 8GBs. I found no real difference what so ever.

I can only assume you'll be using the educational versions and that you aren't a professional. A couple of the Engineers in the year above me who graduated last year work in CAD labs. They only use 4GB of RAM, they'd like to upgrade to 8 but they think 16GB, while nice, is wholly unnecessary.

What I will say is by the time you see a huge difference between 8 and 16 for CAD, you'd probably be better off switching to DDR4.Having said all of this however, at the end of the day its your choice. If you feel you'd benefit using 16GB over 8GB then go for it. It's your money. Don't but 8GB and a week later wish you had have bought 16GB (I know it literally takes two seconds to throw it in but you get what I mean.)

Pokora

Thanks a bunch Sarz ^^ So now I got pretty much everything finalized.

Went down to ~1200, so including monitor gonna be ~1500, just as I wanted ^^

Thanks to everyone for the input, especially Sarz and Monotype for putting in some pro advice there ; P

The topic might be closed now I think ^^

Monotype

I meant to get back to you about the G45 vs GD55. There's feck all difference between them really. GD55 is a bit better at power management and can probably supply more power to the CPU. However, the G45 seems to overclock well anyway, so you usually reach the processor's limit before you need that kind of power. Also, I think the G45 didn't officially support crossfire and SLI at one stage, but it's listed on the specs now, although maybe they mightn't have an SLI or crossfire bridge in the box that they might supply with the higher end boards. Graphics cards usually throw one into their boxes these days anyway.

Sarz91

Pokora wrote: »

Thanks a bunch Sarz ^^ So now I got pretty much everything finalized.

Went down to ~1200, so including monitor gonna be ~1500, just as I wanted ^^

Thanks to everyone for the input, especially Sarz and Monotype for putting in some pro advice there ; P

The topic might be closed now I think ^^

No probelm. Out of pure curiosity, what will you be using CAD and 3D modeling for?

Pokora

Doing course at game design so will be making 3D models for own use... why?^ ^

Sarz91

Pokora wrote: »

Doing course at game design so will be making 3D models for own use... why?^ ^

I'm just nosy. No other reason.

Pokora

Hah, ok, valid reason for me ; )

Also using UDK itself, rendering stuff over there takes a lot of ram as well xC