Jerry Kiernan's GAA rant

Pisco Sour

http://www.thesportsdiaries.com/2013/02/14/gaa-grants-anger-kiernan/

nerraw1111

Pisco Sour wrote: »

http://www.thesportsdiaries.com/2013/02/14/gaa-grants-anger-kiernan/

This was Chamney's reaction on twitter: "Never thought I'd hear jerry Kiernan say he agreed with me on something. Pity he then proceeded to go on a useless rant."

Was an odd albeit interesting/entertaining debate. Not if comparing training was useful, GAA players train to play GAA.

Debate should be on the off the ball website. Starts just after 8pm.

pconn062

Kiernan can be such a troll some of the time, very weak arguments backed up with sketchy facts.

Esroh

Jerry is a Kerryman who has never worn the green & gold Gaa jersey and therefore is not recognised as a sportsman in his home County. Sure 8th in the olympics does not compare to even winning a munster championships at minor.
That might explain his anti GAA stance;)

thirstywork2

Gerry finishing 8th in LA Olympic marathon didn't even get sports personailty that year.Paidi did :eek:

woodchopper

nerraw1111 wrote: »

This was Chamney's reaction on twitter: "Never thought I'd hear jerry Kiernan say he agreed with me on something. Pity he then proceeded to go on a useless rant."

Was an odd albeit interesting/entertaining debate. Not if comparing training was useful, GAA players train to play GAA.

Debate should be on the off the ball website. Starts just after 8pm.

Firstly Thomas Chamney was asked by the editor of Off The Ball via tweet to DM him about comments he made via twitter on GAA grants. I presume he would have asked Tom to come on the show to discuss the issue. This was during the day. Instead we get Gerry Kiernan as a replacement.

My question why does Tom Chamney refuse to discuss the issue on Newstalk but then within minutes of Kiernan's interview has a cut at him via social media?

Speak up or forever hold your breath Tom. Tom choose the easy option to ridicule Jerry via twitter when he had the chance to present a more objective, athlete standpoint. Now the sport of athletics comes across as vindictive, arrogant etc to the general sporting domain. Some way to develop the sport across other codes eh!

Anyway Chamney doesnt deserve to even enter the equation of a sports grant given his inability to beat teenagers at recent races.

SSK

It would be of huge benefit to athletics in Ireland if Kiernan was never let near a microphone again. He doesn't even know what he's arguing in that piece and compares massively unfavourably with Jamesie O'Connor who is one of the GAA's most balanced and articulate analysts.

I really don't see why the GAA grants are of any concern to athletes or athletic pundits. 900 per players is peanuts really and the overall size of the grant is to do purely with the number of players playing GAA at the highest level. They shouldn't be restricted from claiming a grant just because the GAA is run well and makes a decent profit year on year.

If athletics has an issue it should be with its own governing body and by extension the Irish Sports Council. Taking pot shots at other organisations does no one any favours.

myflipflops

As a sport, athletics in Ireland needs to look at itself more rather than randomly attacking other sports.

Like it or not, Jerry Kiernan is one of the most high profile spokesmen for the sport in the country and twice in the last 6 months he has launched unprovoked rants at both the GAA and rugby on Off the Ball. Agree with him or not, it just comes across and petty and pointless.

D4cyclist

Anyone know if Chamney is still getting a grant?

SSK

Just had a look at Chamney's twitter there to see what exactly he said.

"be better if that (the GAA grants) went to professional sports"

Now it can't be just me who sees the irony of a professional athlete giving out about Government grants to amateur players! Again, if the high-performance program is under-funded (which it is, particularly relative to expectations) its a Sports Council/AAI issue, not a vehicle for mouths to have a go at other sports.

One a slight tangent, as far as I can tell (I don't have any official stats) participation levels in athletics, particularly among adults is at one of its highest levels ever. Surely what the focus of the AAI should be to harness this interest into a structured grassroots set up and build from there. Maybe then these athletes will be in a position to claim a larger slice of the grant pie.

Pisco Sour

SSK wrote: »

One a slight tangent, as far as I can tell (I don't have any official stats) participation levels in athletics, particularly among adults is at one of its highest levels ever. Surely what the focus of the AAI should be to harness this interest into a structured grassroots set up and build from there. Maybe then these athletes will be in a position to claim a larger slice of the grant pie.

Does this include joggers doing fun runs? Because that doesn't really count as athletics for the purposes of this discussion to be honest.

SSK

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Does this include joggers doing fun runs? Because that doesn't really count as athletics for the purposes of this discussion to be honest.

Well yes and no. What I'm talking about is anyone who has paid entrance fees into a marathon or a 10k and who makes a genuine effort to improve their time/performance. Surely the AAI should be making a more concerted effort to harness the potential of all these runners into a proper, structured national athletics system.

I mean the lads out playing Junior 9 football for their clubs aren't much more than "fun runners" either but at least there seems to more of a buy in to the whole organisation because of the structures that are in place through the clubs. This doesn't seem to exist in Irish athletics and the AAI seem to be happy enough to play the poor mouth rather than at least attempting to capitalise on the potential.

The Irish cricket set up is something that the AAI should aspire to.

RayCun

SSK wrote: »

One a slight tangent, as far as I can tell (I don't have any official stats) participation levels in athletics, particularly among adults is at one of its highest levels ever. Surely what the focus of the AAI should be to harness this interest into a structured grassroots set up and build from there. Maybe then these athletes will be in a position to claim a larger slice of the grant pie.

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Does this include joggers doing fun runs? Because that doesn't really count as athletics for the purposes of this discussion to be honest.

As far as I know, athletics club membership is higher than its been in years. Getting 'joggers doing fun runs' :rolleyes: into clubs strengthens the AAI. Sure, they're not going to represent Ireland internationally, but hands up all the international athletes on this forum.

rom

RayCun wrote: »

As far as I know, athletics club membership is higher than its been in years.

Just taking Cork for example (as that is what I have stats for) About 2k people are members of athletics clubs in 2012. There are 520k people living here. So 0.38% of people are in athletics clubs. Now that is hardly ground breaking.

RayCun wrote: »

hands up all the international athletes on this forum.

There are more lurking than contributing and I don't think any are going to contribute to this thread

Pisco Sour

rom wrote: »

Just taking Cork for example (as that is what I have stats for) About 2k people are members of athletics clubs in 2012. There are 520k people living here. So 0.38% of people are in athletics clubs. Now that is hardly ground breaking.

And then how many of this number do anything other than road running from 5km up to marathon? Not that there is anything wrong with somebody wanting to run long distance, but we are discussing ATHLETICS here, and more specifically elite athletics, which covers a lot more than road races. Take away this one aspect of the sport and we are looking at pretty small numbers.

chinguetti

Whether you take it as elite (inter county panelists and internationals) or those who play it, GAA will always have far more than athletics in number terms and thats a simple fact.

Kiernan's rant makes him look foolish by saying the GAA shouldn't get grants and gives the impression that athletics folk are bitter people jealous of others. And yes, the GAA have plenty of those kind too. Do athletics folk think he speaks sense or just wish he'ld stop shouting his mouth off?

Also having a pot shot at saying GAA players aren't fully fit in August is just daft. What manager would have a team unfit at the peak time of the year?

Tom Joad

SSK wrote: »

Well yes and no. What I'm talking about is anyone who has paid entrance fees into a marathon or a 10k and who makes a genuine effort to improve their time/performance. Surely the AAI should be making a more concerted effort to harness the potential of all these runners into a proper, structured national athletics system.

I mean the lads out playing Junior 9 football for their clubs aren't much more than "fun runners" either but at least there seems to more of a buy in to the whole organisation because of the structures that are in place through the clubs. This doesn't seem to exist in Irish athletics and the AAI seem to be happy enough to play the poor mouth rather than at least attempting to capitalise on the potential.

The Irish cricket set up is something that the AAI should aspire to.

Excellent post. Speaking as someone who is involved in both GAA and athletics (probably in the fun-runner category admitedly ) I feel that Athletics is missing a massive trick here. I would consider myself a better runner than a GAA player but yet through the GAA you are part of a team, structure etc etc - you feel involved in the whole structure of the sport even though the standard played may be quite poor.

Not so in Athletics and that is where Athletics is missing a massive trick and instead of displaying such pettiness it should be looking to emulate the GAA. For instance in the rural club I play in about 4-5 lads have decided that their best playing days are behind them. I have convinced a few of them to give the running lark a go but their is no real outlet for them - used to be an Athletic club in the town many moons ago but fell away - the nearest athletics club is 10 miles away and doesn't really have many seniors in it. - Massive opportunity being lost here and that is being mirrored across Ireland.

Simply put more members means greater leverage of funds and better structures.

rom

Pisco Sour wrote: »

And then how many of this number do anything other than road running from 5km up to marathon? Not that there is anything wrong with somebody wanting to run long distance, but we are discussing ATHLETICS here, and more specifically elite athletics, which covers a lot more than road races. Take away this one aspect of the sport and we are looking at pretty small numbers.

Your like our Jerry Kiernan and middle and long distance is your GAA :P

average_runner

Heard Jerry on newstalk and he was an embarrassment. Some the points he made are:

• GAA players aren't fit
• GAA players don't train much
• GAA players aren't committed!!
• Think it was James O'Connor also on during the talk and he said he trained 21 out off 22 days and Jerry then says well my boy Sweeney trains 42 times out of the 22 days, Big child.
• Said GAA players in the league aren't fit, this could be correct as start of season but so what, Benkele wasn't fit for alot of his races in the first 1/4 of the year last year.

Someone should tell Jerry, that running fast doesn't mean your fitter than a GAA player that's not as fast. Maybe hit the runner a few shoulders during the 70 min run, bend down pick a ball up so many times, etc and see how the runner is after 70 mins compare to a footballer!!!


He was pissed that Sweeney result in Holland last weekend didn't get any coverage on tv, reason for that Jerry is because most of Ireland don't care sadly and attacking another sport won't help your cause.

There was program on tv about two years ago, that did a study to prove which sport has the most rounded fitness. GAA came out on top in this.


I loved my running but you cant say one sport players aren't fit the way he says it.

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

There was program on tv about two years ago, that did a study to prove which sport has the most rounded fitness. GAA came out on top in this.


I loved my running but you cant say one sport players aren't fit the way he says it.

Explain how GAA players have better all round fitness than athletes?

Tombo2001

average_runner wrote: »

Heard Jerry on newstalk and he was an embarrassment. Some the points he made are:

• GAA players aren't fit
• GAA players don't train much
• GAA players aren't committed!!
• Think it was James O'Connor also on during the talk and he said he trained 21 out off 22 days and Jerry then says well my boy Sweeney trains 42 times out of the 22 days, Big child.
• Said GAA players in the league aren't fit, this could be correct as start of season but so what, Benkele wasn't fit for alot of his races in the first 1/4 of the year last year.

Someone should tell Jerry, that running fast doesn't mean your fitter than a GAA player that's not as fast. Maybe hit the runner a few shoulders during the 70 min run, bend down pick a ball up so many times, etc and see how the runner is after 70 mins compare to a footballer!!!


He was pissed that Sweeney result in Holland last weekend didn't get any coverage on tv, reason for that Jerry is because most of Ireland don't care sadly and attacking another sport won't help your cause.

There was program on tv about two years ago, that did a study to prove which sport has the most rounded fitness. GAA came out on top in this.


I loved my running but you cant say one sport players aren't fit the way he says it.

You are mis-representing what he said there.

His point was that GAA players are always banging on about the great sacrifices they are making, and that they are like professionals in every way apart from getting paid for it.....he wasnt saying they are unfit, just that they arent nearly as fit as they claim to be.

That is true, you would get sick of hearing them feel sorry for themselves. You never hear the likes of Fionnuala Britton come out with this sort of stuff.

To give a comparison, I know a guy who was dating a top class athlete. He told me that she had a two week holiday off-season where she would allow herself have a glass of wine or a trip to McDonalds, and then it would just be a glass of wine. Against that, I know a guy who was on a senior club team that reached an all-ireland final, this guy never had a problem going out on the lash for most of the year, indeed he told me that when they won their provincial championship but lost the AI semi they were given a holiday in Spain. He said he lasted three days and had to come home early as the boozing was just too much for him. I know these are just one off stories.....

For the GAA lads to keep banging on about how they are like professionals in everything but the pay, firstly its not true, secondly they get better looked after than any other amateurs in the country, and thirdly there are other sports where amateurs (or equivalently people who hold down full time jobs) are training much harder than the GAA guys.

How much training do you think the average Meath footballer or Cork hurler has done in the past 6 months, compared to someone like Linda Byrne? In hours of training, I would guess its less than 50%.

As for the argument that GAA players training isnt all fitness, that there is skill based training too.........the amount of wides I see any time I watch a GAA game kind of makes that hard to believe......hurling or handball maybe, but not football.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

Explain how GAA players have better all round fitness than athletes?

I didnt do the show, but they did various tests, from strength to speed etc.


But i do remember a friend of mine in college was and is a runner, won national titles etc, super runner but lack the fitness for indoor soccer, just a different kind of fitness.

I would think i am fitter now than ever, but i struggled when i played soccer for first time last week!!

Tombo2001

average_runner wrote: »

I didnt do the show, but they did various tests, from strength to speed etc.


But i do remember a friend of mine in college was and is a runner, won national titles etc, super runner but lack the fitness for indoor soccer, just a different kind of fitness.

I would think i am fitter now than ever, but i struggled when i played soccer for first time last week!!

Clearly there are different types of fitness. Cian Healy probably wouldnt do too well in the Tour de France.

JKiernan wasnt saying "put Bernard Brogan in a 1500m and then we'll see how fit he is".

He was talking about the amount of time spent training, and saying that the amount of time athletes spend training far exceeds the amount of time GAA players spend training.

Tom Joad

His point was that GAA players are always banging on about the great
sacrifices they are making, and that they are like professionals in every way
apart from getting paid for it.....he wasnt saying they are unfit, just that
they arent nearly as fit as they claim to be.



That is true, you would get sick of hearing them feel sorry for themselves.
You never hear the likes of Fionnuala Britton come out with this sort of
stuff.

That just comes across as bitter. The GAA gets more coverage than Athletics so we are always going to hear more of what happens in the GAA world. It is true that intercounty GAA players do a phenomenal amount of training - all while holding down full time jobs. I do hear athletes talk about the sacrifices they make, the training, the loneliness, the lack of facilities in Ireland etc, etc - they just get less airtime because they are a smaller group and its not as popular a sport.

To give a comparison, I know a guy who was dating a top class athlete. He told
me that she had a two week holiday off-season where she would allow herself have
a glass of wine or a trip to McDonalds, and then it would just be a glass of
wine. Against that, I know a guy who was on a senior club team that reached an
all-ireland final, this guy never had a problem going out on the lash for most
of the year, indeed he told me that when they won their provincial championship
but lost the AI semi they were given a holiday in Spain. He said he lasted three
days and had to come home early as the boozing was just too much for him. I
know these are just one off stories.....

Senior club team player Vs. top athlete - apples and oranges frankly.

For the GAA lads to keep banging on about how they are like professionals in
everything but the pay, firstly its not true, secondly they get better looked
after than any other amateurs in the country, and thirdly there are other sports
where amateurs (or equivalently people who hold down full time jobs) are
training much harder than the GAA guys.

Again at the top level they pretty much are like professionals. They get looked after by their own organisation. What other amateur sports do you refer to?

How much training do you think the average Meath footballer or Cork hurler has
done in the past 6 months, compared to someone like Linda Byrne? In hours of
training, I would guess its less than 50%.

Intercounty level - I would say its on a par and that's even with it being off-season.

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

I didnt do the show, but they did various tests, from strength to speed etc.


But i do remember a friend of mine in college was and is a runner, won national titles etc, super runner but lack the fitness for indoor soccer, just a different kind of fitness.

I would think i am fitter now than ever, but i struggled when i played soccer for first time last week!!

Maybe if you played soccer every week for the next few months your body would come acustom to the twists and turns etc and your fitness from running would come to prominence. Anyway all the Italian soccer team can comfortable run under 10 minutes for 3k.

I also doubt that GAA players are stronger than sprinters, Shot Putters, Discuss throwers or faster for that matter even over 30 metres.

Again more to athletics than jogging marathons.

The programme seems to have a lot of flaws in its developmnet and testing procedures and as such would disreguard the results issued.

Tom Joad

woodchopper wrote: »

Explain how GAA players have better all round fitness than athletes?

I done a 5k where a county player club mate of mine also ran - I finished a minute ahead of him (gave him dog's abuse about it too ) - played against him in a training match a few weeks later and couldn't get near him in terms of keeping up - he wiped the floor with me dragging me all over the pitch with short bursts etc, etc.

Try doing a 5km with a 14 stone junior B back hitting you shoulders every 500metres and you appreciate these guys fitness levels.

nerraw1111

Tombo2001 wrote: »

How much training do you think the average Meath footballer or Cork hurler has done in the past 6 months, compared to someone like Linda Byrne? In hours of training, I would guess its less than 50%.

These comparisons are useless though. They mean nothing. Nothing can be extrapolated from them other than they both train hard for their respective sports.

GAA players are fitter for playing GAA. Marathon runners are fitter for marathon races.

The amount of time one spends training is also a pointless argument. Cyclists train a lot longer than 100 metre runners. What does that tell us? Absolutely nothing.

average_runner

Tombo2001 wrote: »

You are mis-representing what he said there.

"His point was that GAA players are always banging on about the great sacrifices they are making, and that they are like professionals in every way apart from getting paid for it.....he wasnt saying they are unfit, just that they arent nearly as fit as they claim to be."

Relisten to it again, he said the players coming off the pitch when Kerry played Donegal were not fit. Also said the players on the pitch last weekend were not fit, he clearly said it.

"That is true, you would get sick of hearing them feel sorry for themselves. You never hear the likes of Fionnuala Britton come out with this sort of stuff."

Fionnuala doesn't but others have over the years, god a few were moaning on twitter yesterday over GAA getting a grant which wasn't much.

Maybe the government should do grants based on what financial return the sport brings back to the country! I wouldnt agree with this.

"To give a comparison, I know a guy who was dating a top class athlete. He told me that she had a two week holiday off-season where she would allow herself have a glass of wine or a trip to McDonalds, and then it would just be a glass of wine. Against that, I know a guy who was on a senior club team that reached an all-ireland final, this guy never had a problem going out on the lash for most of the year, indeed he told me that when they won their provincial championship but lost the AI semi they were given a holiday in Spain. He said he lasted three days and had to come home early as the boozing was just too much for him. I know these are just one off stories....."

I know a good few county players and they dont drink much from Jan to Sept. Holidays are non existent till club champs are over, usually end of October!!

For the GAA lads to keep banging on about how they are like professionals in everything but the pay, firstly its not true, secondly they get better looked after than any other amateurs in the country, and thirdly there are other sports where amateurs (or equivalently people who hold down full time jobs) are training much harder than the GAA guys.

But the GAA players generate income for the country, not many other amateurs can say this. They also train every night like other people.

As for the argument that GAA players training isnt all fitness, that there is skill based training too.........the amount of wides I see any time I watch a GAA game kind of makes that hard to believe......hurling or handball maybe, but not football.

The same could be said for Irish runners performance in the Olympics.

Pisco Sour

rom wrote: »

Your like our Jerry Kiernan and middle and long distance is your GAA :P

Haha, not at all. But we seem to mistake high numbers doing one small aspect of the sport as a measure of the health of the sport in Ireland. For the record I love middle and long distance running. Can't beat a world 10000m final.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

Maybe if you played soccer every week for the next few months your body would come acustom to the twists and turns etc and your fitness from running would come to prominence. Anyway all the Italian soccer team can comfortable run under 10 minutes for 3k.

I also doubt that GAA players are stronger than sprinters, Shot Putters, Discuss throwers or faster for that matter even over 30 metres.

Again more to athletics than jogging marathons.

The programme seems to have a lot of flaws in its developmnet and testing procedures and as such would disreguard the results issued.

I also doubt all the above could chase a footballer around the pitch in a match, taking the hits etc.

Yes a Discuss thrower could be stronger, but could they match the speed of a footballer?

Could a sprinter handle a shoulder and running with a ball and trying to kick it?

All these sports are different, but the program results showed that a overall fitness, GAA was ahead.

This was only done against the sport people in Ireland

The program did say it the GAA went up against the NFL in Oz, the NFL would be overall fitter.

woodchopper

Tom Joad wrote: »

I done a 5k where a county player club mate of mine also ran - I finished a minute ahead of him (gave him dog's abuse about it too ) - played against him in a training match a few weeks later and couldn't get near him in terms of keeping up - he wiped the floor with me dragging me all over the pitch with short bursts etc, etc.

Try doing a 5km with a 14 stone junior B back hitting you shoulders every 500metres and you appreciate these guys fitness levels.

So are you an International calibre athlete?. I believe top GAA players are vastly superior athletes to 17/18 min 5k runners. But 13/14 minute 5k athletes are fastly superior athletes to inter county GAA players and so too are sub 11 second sprinters, national class field eventers.

Dont make the mistake that because you can beat a GAA player and finish mid pack in a local road race that somehow you represent International calibre athletes. Because the debate centres on a statement which articulated that GAA players are better all round athletes than top national/international calibre athletes.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

Maybe if you played soccer every week for the next few months your body would come acustom to the twists and turns etc and your fitness from running would come to prominence. Anyway all the Italian soccer team can comfortable run under 10 minutes for 3k.

I also doubt that GAA players are stronger than sprinters, Shot Putters, Discuss throwers or faster for that matter even over 30 metres.

Again more to athletics than jogging marathons.

The programme seems to have a lot of flaws in its developmnet and testing procedures and as such would disreguard the results issued.

But alot of GAA foobtballers can run a good 10k time without training for it, if they just used their GAA training, but not vice versa!

Tombo2001

nerraw1111 wrote: »

These comparisons are useless though. They mean nothing. Nothing can be extrapolated from them other than they both train hard for their respective sports.

GAA players are fitter for playing GAA. Marathon runners are fitter for marathon races.

The amount of time one spends training is also a pointless argument. Cyclists train a lot longer than 100 metre runners. What does that tell us? Absolutely nothing.

The amount of time one spends training is what underpins the frequent moan we hear from GAA heads that they are "like professional".......no other point is relevant than the time commitment if what are talking about is sacrifices made for the sport.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

So are you an International calibre athlete?. I believe top GAA players are vastly superior athletes to 17/18 min 5k runners. But 13/14 minute 5k athletes are fastly superior athletes to inter county GAA players and so too are sub 11 second sprinters, national class field eventers.

Dont make the mistake that because you can beat a GAA player and finish mid pack in a local road race that somehow you represent International calibre athletes. Because the debate centres on a statement which articulated that GAA players are better all round athletes than top national/international calibre athletes.

How do you make that out, can a international calibre athlete play top level GAA?

For your info 2 of the men that finished in the masters indoors in the medals are ex gaa!!! And one of them is the national master out door champ.

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

But alot of GAA foobtballers can run a good 10k time without training for it, if they just used their GAA training, but not vice versa!

I would be surprised at any intercounty GAA player running under 32 minutes for a 10k which is what an average club runner would run.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

I would be surprised at any intercounty GAA player running under 32 minutes for a 10k which is what an average club runner would run.

Really an average club runner, 32 mins, dont think so. Can you prove this?


Only 10 people in National 10k in 2011 finished with a time of 31:59 or better!!!

jeffontour

I think Keirnan did nothing to develop a greater understanding in the general public of the level of commitment and training required to become a grant funded, to whatever degree, international standard track and field athlete. Which is probably what the air time should have been used for in the context of the debate on social media that triggered the radio slot.

When he was ranting on about fitness levels of players in GAA I got the sense he was trying to reference their fitness levels relative to the general public's perception of their fitness levels as compared to say an Olympic marathoner. I'd argue a lot more people know an inter county grade GAA player than olympian and therefore the public perception, due to more coverage of and access to their training regimes, may be that they are the fittest of the athletes because they hear so much about the efforts they put into their sport. Similar I think to the way that as a very average runner I'm probably a little fitter than I give myself credit for but not nearly as fit as some of my non running friends think I am, purely because I am generally their sole point of reference for running fitness.

So Gerry didn't help at all with his rant, it could have been framed so much better, triggering a focused debate on sport funding but instead this thread has deteriorated into a "who would win in a fight between a tiger and shark" type debate.

popebenny16

what OTB should do is have Ailish McSweeney and Byran Cullen on to argue it out, Harry Hill Style. Fiiiiiiiigggght!!

Back in reality, there are some good observations here. As someone who was a Club Hurler and School/College Footballer and now a "fun runner" I have a sort of insight into both worlds.

One thing is that at club level the AAI should be heavily ripping off the GAA in terms of organisation and structure. Now, obviously it is easier for a much bigger organisation to cope with getting lots of kids involved and nurturing them in the way that the GAA do, but it is possible.

Things are improving, espicially in rural areas where, for example, schools will have a GAA team and a local club player will help out but not an athletics programme. The Fit Kids programme got my kids into Gym activites and stuff, and the local athletic club has a great programme for kids. In fact I hear lots of great things about our local track (its Templemore) when I meet people from other clubs, but its all down to the enthusiasam of a few people. I think with the current running bug the AAI are in an ideal position to find more and more poeple like that. As far as I know, the ones here all came with the last big running bug in the 80's. The fact that there has been a near 30 year gap must not be allowed happen again.

In relation to kiernans point on fitness for GAA players, I am not sure I get his specific point, and I am not even sure he knows what his point is either. At its height you can say its "amature sports players should not get gov grants because then they are not amature" but many sports which are not professional get grants - Boxing comes to mind right away.

As for GAA fitness, they are fit, but not in the same way as runners other sports people are fit. I am fit, but as a marathon and half marathon runner I am a different kind of fit than I was as a GAA player. (my physio used to muse in wonder at my massive calves and said how i would need big changes to be able to run long distance). But my general level of fitness is roughly the same I would have thoght.

So he has opened up a debate, for sure, but I am not sure it is the debate that he wanted to open up. What I would suggest is that instead of going on the radio and running away with himself (har har) he puts pen to paper and puts something in Irish Runner or a newspaper instead.

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

How do you make that out, can a international calibre athlete play top level GAA?

For your info 2 of the men that finished in the masters indoors in the medals are ex gaa!!! And one of them is the national master out door champ.

Where did I say that International athletes could play GAA? I never said that and its a fundamental and fatal weakness in your debate. I stated and let me make this clear that International level athletes are better all round ATHLETES than GAA players.

This is in response to a poster claiming that GAA players have better all round fitness than top level athletes.

I claimed that a Sprinter is faster than a GAA Inter County player and also more explosive and powerful whilst also having to practice the skills of his trade i.e blocks, starting positions, form etc in comparison to game and ball skills for a GAA player.

Hurdlers foot to eye co-ordination is also a great skill coupled with their sprinting ability making them perhaps the best all round athletes across any sport along with multi-eventers.

Dont twist an argument because you fail to come up with a worthy response to my original post. If this continues I will just ignore your posts.

chinguetti

Someone mention the 'average' GAA inter county player and what they did/do for the last 6 months.

Club finals don't finish in most counties until November/December so they are playing until then. If you're in college, you're training for Sigerson/Fitzgibbon along with the senior team doing weights etc. Some county teams were back training in early December, depending on when thet lost last year in the championship. If you're young enough, you maybe doing U21 training.

Come this time of the year, your college is knocked out of their competition so you're back with the senior panel and the league starts up and then the club is back again for April. Also, if you're in the U21 you are kept going with that. I knew a guy a few years back that was playing/training on 5 teams in March and he was run ragged from the playing and training.

I'm not trying to show here that GAA players are harder trainers than anyone else but whatever sport you decide on and if you want to be the best, you make scarifices. For anyone who does that, fair play to them, the majority of those people we never hear of in all sports and they should be respected by everyone for the time and effort they put in.

Kiernan was just been petty and rabble rousing when he had a shot at the GAA, as he was when he had a pot at Rugby in the past. From what i've read of him, he regularly goes on telly/radio and gives dog's abuse to athletes. He's trying to stir the pot and for that, he has achieved success.

Tom Joad

woodchopper wrote: »

So are you an International calibre athlete?. I believe top GAA players are vastly superior athletes to 17/18 min 5k runners. But 13/14 minute 5k athletes are fastly superior athletes to inter county GAA players and so too are sub 11 second sprinters, national class field eventers.

Dont make the mistake that because you can beat a GAA player and finish mid pack in a local road race that somehow you represent International calibre athletes. Because the debate centres on a statement which articulated that GAA players are better all round athletes than top national/international calibre athletes.

No I would never claim to be an elite athlete or anything of the sort - I was making the point that it is easy to underestimate these guys fitness and a lot of people do - its easy to have a cut at GAA players and quite frankly smack of jealousy on the part of Jerry Kiernans or anyone else in Athletics Ireland that has the same views - get your own house in order.

Re your second paragraph - I'm under no illusions there but then again I've never been told by intercounty level team mates that they won't pass the ball to me because I'm not an elite intercounty level player. :rolleyes:

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

Really an average club runner, 32 mins, dont think so. Can you prove this?

Well if you put a 32 minutes 10k into the national 10k this summer he will probably be lapped 2-3 times by the medal winners who are national class athletes. So after been lapped by the national class athletes twice and then once by the sub-national class athletes i.e the sub 31 minutes 10km guys where exactly to you put the 32 minute 10km runner?


Answer: He is what you call an average club athlete, thats the reality and I am sorry to hurt anyones feelings but sometimes the truth hurts.

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

Fionnuala doesn't but others have over the years, god a few were moaning on twitter yesterday over GAA getting a grant which wasn't much.

What is it, over 2000 GAA players getting 400 quid each? That's not enough for any development, it wouldn't allow any of those players to take time off work for training, or pay for a camp abroad. So there's no way it can be intended to improve the level of sporting ability. It's just the govt getting on the good side of the GAA.

average_runner wrote: »

All these sports are different, but the program results showed that a overall fitness, GAA was ahead.

If you design a fitness test that includes swimming, cycling, and running, you'll get a triathlete winning. If your test includes pole vault, javelin, and 1500m, you'll get a decathlete winning. If your test is based on the range of abilities that a GAA player is supposed to have, a GAA player will win. If you decide that 'fitness' = V02 max, maybe a crosscountry skier will win.
There's no universal definition of fitness.

iDave

Oh my God, what an absolute moron. He made so many idiotic statements, I don't know where to begin.
He says he particularly doesn't rate football as "there is nothing to it". Interesting comment Jerry. Forgive me for pointing out the obvious but there seems to be a lot more to it than a lad running around in circles a few times or a lad throwing a metal ball a few meters.
All Irish elite athletes are full time. They don't work and receive grants to support this. If they were not training twice a day there would be something wrong with it. There are no senior intercounty players unfit in the summer. He seems to rate fitness as the ability to run around in circles. Throw your average elite athlete into an all Ireland quarter final against Donegal and well see how fit they are. The bodies wouldn't be able to hack the physicality. There is a lot more to fittness than running.
His comment about carlow and Wicklow not caring is a disgrace and just shows that he doesn't have a clue. Forget about leighton glynn, the other lads give a sh1t too. Look at the reaction of carlow fans when they won a match last year. To be fair there would be a point about certain football counties hurling teams and the Kilkenny footballers etc.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

Where did I say that International athletes could play GAA? I never said that and its a fundamental and fatal weakness in your debate. I stated and let me make this clear that International level athletes are better all round ATHLETES than GAA players.

This is in response to a poster claiming that GAA players have better all round fitness than top level athletes.

I claimed that a Sprinter is faster than a GAA Inter County player and also more explosive and powerful whilst also having to practice the skills of his trade i.e blocks, starting positions, form etc in comparison to game and ball skills for a GAA player.

Hurdlers foot to eye co-ordination is also a great skill coupled with their sprinting ability making them perhaps the best all round athletes across any sport along with multi-eventers.

Dont twist an argument because you fail to come up with a worthy response to my original post. If this continues I will just ignore your posts.

Your twisting things, as no one ever said GAA players are better ATHLETES, but it said was better overall fitness, not just running.

But are they better overall fitness, ie if both were to go out tomorrow and do another sport, who would adapt better, ie not GAA or Athletics.

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

Really an average club runner, 32 mins, dont think so. Can you prove this?


Only 10 people in National 10k in 2011 finished with a time of 31:59 or better!!!

You are using Selective data here. Perhaps if you go onto the AAI website again and browse the 10k times from the last number of years you would see that your 32 minute runners are over three minutes slower than the top national athletes. You cant call them national class if they are been lapped three times in a national final if everyone entered the 10km. The 32 minutes runner is your runner up in a local road race. Thats the reality.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

You are using Selective data here. Perhaps if you go onto the AAI website again and browse the 10k times from the last number of years you would see that your 32 minute runners are over three minutes slower than the top national athletes. You cant call them national class if they are been lapped three times in a national final if everyone entered the 10km. The 32 minutes runner is your runner up in a local road race. Thats the reality.

You said the average club runner for god sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RayCun

woodchopper wrote: »

Well if you put a 32 minutes 10k into the national 10k this summer he will probably be lapped 2-3 times by the medal winners who are national class athletes. So after been lapped by the national class athletes twice and then once by the sub-national class athletes i.e the sub 31 minutes 10km guys where exactly to you put the 32 minute 10km runner?


Answer: He is what you call an average club athlete, thats the reality and I am sorry to hurt anyones feelings but sometimes the truth hurts.

Average - Constituting the result obtained by adding together several quantities and then dividing this total by the number of quantities.

If you add together the 10k times (their best time in a single year) of all the club runners in the country, and divide by the number of runners, you get a time significantly slower than 32 minutes. You can call the 32 minute 10ker 'crap', 'mediocre', 'slow', 'should stick to GAA', 'a disgrace to the proud tradition of athletics', but one thing they are not is average.

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

If you add together the 10k times (their best time in a single year) of all the club runners in the country, and divide by the number of runners, you get a time significantly slower than 32 minutes. You can call the 32 minute 10ker 'crap', 'mediocre', 'slow', 'should stick to GAA', 'a disgrace to the proud tradition of athletics', but one thing they are not is average.

Thank you so much Ray

woodchopper

average_runner wrote: »

Your twisting things, as no one ever said GAA players are better ATHLETES, but it said was better overall fitness, not just running.

.

How am I twisting things? When I use the term athlete I am refering to all sportspeople been discussed i.e Inter County GAA players and high level track and field athletes. You claimed that a programme which I have already raised doubts about its objectivity claimed that GAA players have better overall fitness than track and field athletes. In most peoples eyes this is indicating that GAA players at the top level are better all round sportspeople i.e ATHLETES than Track and Field Representatives.

My points are cystal clear whilst yours are clouded in murky water.

average_runner

woodchopper wrote: »

How am I twisting things? When I use the term athlete I am refering to all sportspeople been discussed i.e Inter County GAA players and high level track and field athletes. You claimed that a programme which I have already raised doubts about its objectivity claimed that GAA players have better overall fitness than track and field athletes. In most peoples eyes this is indicating that GAA players at the top level are better all round sportspeople i.e ATHLETES than Track and Field Representatives.

My points are cystal clear whilst yours are clouded in murky water.

No means better overall fitness levels, not better over 100m or other track events.