Supplements with addes Steroids

Legits

According to the bellow link 20-30% of all supplements from the Uk and US contain steroids.

Is there any trith to such a statement or is just a case of lies, damn lies and statistics?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/junior-cup-kids-have-necks-on-them-like-adults-due-to-supplements-says-sports-doctor-584563.html

deadlybuzzman

The guy that said it is the dublin team doctor but sounds like he should be the joe duffy show resident scare mongerer.

"(The kids) are certainly taking creatine and supplements. The problem with these supplements is that 20%-30% of them throughout the world, mainly in the US and UK where these things come from, are contaminated with steroids."

So what hes saying is that steroid containing products are freely available in shops in Ireland........riiight! :rolleyes:

Hanley

Before I read this - is he referring to substances which may result in a positive test under WADA test conditions, or actual steroids - two VERY different things.

If it's the former, I'd be inclined to believe it.

Zombienosh

Thought this was trolling tbh, Wasn't this topic mentioned before with Rugby,

deadlybuzzman

Hanley wrote: »

Before I read this - is he referring to substances which may result in a positive test under WADA test conditions, or actual steroids - two VERY different things.

If it's the former, I'd be inclined to give it believe it.

Unfortunately its the latter:

Junior cup kids 'have necks on them like adults' due to supplements, says sports doctor

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 08:02 AM
The latest results for the Irish Sports Council Anti-Doping Programme will be published today.

The programme was developed 10 years ago to combat doping in Irish sport.

Last month, Lance Armstrong brought the topic to the top of the news agenda after he admitted using banned substances during his cycling career.

David Hickey, team doctor with the Dublin football team and former All-Ireland winning player, said there was huge pressure on young people playing sport to have professional athletes' bodies.

"You see the bodies of children playing junior cup rugby today - they've necks on them like adults," he said.

"I think what happens is that these kids are told: 'Look, you have the summer off now. Come back 10 kilos heavier', and there's no great direction on how that's done.

"(The kids) are certainly taking creatine and supplements. The problem with these supplements is that 20%-30% of them throughout the world, mainly in the US and UK where these things come from, are contaminated with steroids."

Officials from the World Anti-Doping Agency will be on hand to see today's results revealed.

Hanley

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Unfortunately its the latter:

Junior cup kids 'have necks on them like adults' due to supplements, says sports doctor

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 08:02 AM
The latest results for the Irish Sports Council Anti-Doping Programme will be published today.

The programme was developed 10 years ago to combat doping in Irish sport.

Last month, Lance Armstrong brought the topic to the top of the news agenda after he admitted using banned substances during his cycling career.

David Hickey, team doctor with the Dublin football team and former All-Ireland winning player, said there was huge pressure on young people playing sport to have professional athletes' bodies.

"You see the bodies of children playing junior cup rugby today - they've necks on them like adults," he said.

"I think what happens is that these kids are told: 'Look, you have the summer off now. Come back 10 kilos heavier', and there's no great direction on how that's done.

"(The kids) are certainly taking creatine and supplements. The problem with these supplements is that 20%-30% of them throughout the world, mainly in the US and UK where these things come from, are contaminated with steroids."

Officials from the World Anti-Doping Agency will be on hand to see today's results revealed.

Well I mean I got that he was quoted as saying "steroids" but I'm wondering if he meant "substances" and is talking out of his arse.

Legits

I think it is very clear that he meant exactly what he said you just have to read the article in it entirity to get a feel for it.

Hanley

Legits wrote: »

I think it is very clear that he meant exactly what he said you just have to read the article in it entirity to get a feel for it.

Ugh. I'm not saying he was misquoted. I'm saying he's ignorant.

And I'm also saying there probably are a high percentage of supplments which increase the risk of a positive test, but they don't contain "steroids".

cc87

Hanley wrote: »

Ugh. I'm not saying he was misquoted. I'm saying he's ignorant.

And I'm also saying there probably are a high percentage of supplments which increase the risk of a positive test, but they don't contain "steroids".

Ya i know the IOC did a study a few years back which found about 20% (I think) of OTC supps contains substances which would cause a positive test.

Not necessarily steroids though.

Didn't myprotein pull one of their products for a while over the summer because it was cross contaminated with a banned substance?

Zombienosh

didn't bodybuilding.com get in trouble a while ago for selling loads of banned stuff and steroids in supplements?

Oisinjm

Why would a company eat into ALL of their margin by adding steroids into a product? It makes no economic sense. This guy is talking out of his a**. Protein and creatine supplements are 100% safe. Creatine is the most researched supplement on the planet. There's a difference between something being an illegal steroid and being banned by the WADA. There are several products on the market here that would see you fail a test by the WADA but that ARE NOT illegal anabolics.

Zombienosh wrote: »

didn't bodybuilding.com get in trouble a while ago for selling loads of banned stuff and steroids in supplements?

Bodybuilding.com got into trouble with the FDA as they were mislabelling some steroids as prohormones if I remember correctly. PH's aren't even legal here so that's not an issue.

This rears its head every year when the junior cup and senior cups are on. Schools rugby players are getting bigger because they're conveyor belts for the provinces. The branches pump money into these schools who have gyms, professional coaches, strength and conditioning coaches and proper diet. Of course the kids are getting bigger. Obviously some kids will abuse, steroids are surprisingly easy to get. PH's even more so. The vast majority however aren't taking steroids directly or inadvertently through taking supplements. Really annoys me when "respected" people come out and bash the industry when they actually haven't a notion.

Oisín

Zombienosh

these are the type of people that consider creatine as some sort of steroid

Oisinjm

Zombienosh wrote: »

these are the type of people that consider creatine as some sort of steroid

Believe me I know. I get people coming into the shop I work in, arguing with me that it's a steroid and can to irreparable damage. Some you can convince with valid points, some people are just too stubborn to listen. I've had people tell me "it's a disgrace that I can get away with selling these drugs". You can't win with some people.

I usually just ask people to produce a peer reviewed paper that says creatine will rot my kidneys

Oisín

Gummy Panda

Oisinjm wrote: »

Believe me I know. I get people coming into the shop I work in, arguing with me that it's a steroid and can to irreparable damage. Some you can convince with valid points, some people are just too stubborn to listen. I've had people tell me "it's a disgrace that I can get away with selling these drugs". You can't win with some people.

I usually just ask people to produce a peer reviewed paper that says creatine will rot my kidneys

Oisín

MONSTER!!

jugger0

Why are people so afraid of big young fellas? so what if they are lifting and taking protein and or creo.. I only wish i started younger myself.

deadlybuzzman

This was coming from someone from a GAA background, he's thinking "wow look at the size of those guys" as obviously he'll be comparing them to GAA players of the same age, in a sport thats much more physical obviously theyre going to be bigger as more of an emphasis was placed on nutrition and strength.
Of course thats much too straightforward an explanation for someone who is obviously ignorant of many basic facts, much the same as anyone on here with semirespectable lifts can the S word thrown in their direction by a bum.
If basketball was a more common sport he'd probably blame steroids in energy drinks for the players being so tall

TheZ

I heard him on the radio this morning. He said 20 to 30 per cent of supplements are contaminated with anabolic steroids.


Was a weird interview where he complained about the Aussie rules guys running camps and mentioned drugs problems in Aussie sport.

Said young lads are told to put on 10kg over the summer by their schools (rugby) and are given no guidance on how to do it. That may be a fair point.


He is a transplant surgeon so he's a clever guy. It just came across like a strange interview. Irony is that the Dublin football team are probably the most physically developed team in GAA at the moment so you would imagine there are some supplements being taken by players under his guidance

Seachmall

All I want to know is which supplements are producing steroid-like results! :eek:

Oisinjm

TheZ wrote: »

I heard him on the radio this morning. He said 20 to 30 per cent of supplements are contaminated with anabolic steroids.


Was a weird interview where he complained about the Aussie rules guys running camps and mentioned drugs problems in Aussie sport.

Said young lads are told to put on 10kg over the summer by their schools (rugby) and are given no guidance on how to do it. That may be a fair point.


He is a transplant surgeon so he's a clever guy. It just came across like a strange interview. Irony is that the Dublin football team are probably the most physically developed team in GAA at the moment so you would imagine there are some supplements being taken by players under his guidance

That's the thing, people under his guidance are talking loads of supplements. I know for a fact Dublin players are taking certain preworkouts, protein powders, recovery products and BCAAs. Of course though, only the products the team take are completely safe compared to the rest of the market. The rest of us lace our products with juice. Nice one bud!

Oisín

Mellor

A lot of the stuff on the market will cause you to fail a drugs test. In that regard he is right. But he has taken this to mean anabolic steroids. Which is not the case. Sure, even some OTC medicine causes failed tests. Eg A Vicks inhaler.

Just another example of a doctor trying to carve a niche for himself by calling himself a "sports doctor" - without a clue about sports.

will56

Zombienosh wrote: »

these are the type of people that consider creatine as some sort of steroid

These people really get my back up. Once a "medical professional" mentions creatine or protein in this context other people immediately brand these supplements as steroids.
Its then a losing battle trying to explain that they're not, just because so and so said they were.

john_cappa

He prob seen the below link once and assumed it was common place! lol

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122832121&page=1

Zamboni

I use a venn diagram to describe this issue.

rubadub

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/4794276/Supplemental-Muscle-building-kids-in-danger.html

The ISC also revealed that there were eight anti-doping rule violations in 2012 — from 787 tests across 31 sports.
Four related to the use of cannabis, while the others arose from a substance found in supplements.

This reminded me of some other nonsense report in an old thread here where it ended up being cannabis. When they say "doping", they could be a bit more clear that they actually mean/include "smoking dope" FFS esp. if 50% of the cases are people just smoking weed, which the majority of doctors would consider safer than alcohol, and by no means athletically enhancing, or causing disturbing neck growth.

If 20-30% of them had banned substances why isn't there a baseline of 20-30% of tests being failed? I suspect there are 2 reasons.

Aquarius34

This wouldn't be at all too surprising to me to say the least. . .

Brian?

Aquarius34 wrote: »

This wouldn't be at all too surprising to me to say the least. . .

Because of the complete lack of evidence?

Aquarius34

Brian? wrote: »

Because of the complete lack of evidence?

Let me reiterate.

It wouldn't surprise me if they put steroids in supplements, that's what I meant. The fact that this article comes up, only clarifies my hunches from before hand feelings. I know a guy who's on a "testosterone booster", (non anabolic steroid) and he looks exactly like someone who's on juice. If he hadn't had told me I would of swore hes on it. He's a hard gainer as well but he has to always tell people on this issue stating that's "hes not on steroids", but It wouldn't surprise me if there are "steroids" in that too. I am not stating there is and I don't care if there is either but this is just the way the business works with bodybuilding. People will buy the best supplement out there that will make you grow and gain because that's the business yanno.

Oisinjm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Let me reiterate.

It wouldn't surprise me if they put steroids in supplements, that's what I meant. The fact that this article comes up, only clarifies my hunches from before hand feelings. I know a guy who's on a "testosterone booster", (non anabolic steroid) and he looks exactly like someone who's on juice. If he hadn't had told me I would of swore hes on it. He's a hard gainer as well but he has to always tell people on this issue stating that's "hes not on steroids", but It wouldn't surprise me if there are "steroids" in that too. I am not stating there is and I don't care if there is either but this is just the way the business works with bodybuilding. People will buy the best supplement out there that will make you grow and gain because that's the business yanno.

Do you know how much steroids cost? It wouldn't be cost effective to put them in a natural testosterone booster that retail at approximately €45. This already nullifies your argument. You're friend may well be on steroids for all we know, but he 100%, unequivocally, did not get this from a legal supplement.

Also, if steroids were included in legal supplements and people weren't running cycle supports or post cycle therapy products then we'd be seeing thousands of lads around the country with gynecomastia, severely damaged livers and unable to naturally produce testosterone any more.

Oisín

Brian?

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Let me reiterate.

It wouldn't surprise me if they put steroids in supplements, that's what I meant. The fact that this article comes up, only clarifies my hunches from before hand feelings. I know a guy who's on a "testosterone booster", (non anabolic steroid) and he looks exactly like someone who's on juice. If he hadn't had told me I would of swore hes on it. He's a hard gainer as well but he has to always tell people on this issue stating that's "hes not on steroids", but It wouldn't surprise me if there are "steroids" in that too. I am not stating there is and I don't care if there is either but this is just the way the business works with bodybuilding. People will buy the best supplement out there that will make you grow and gain because that's the business yanno.

Terrible reasoning. As pointed out, steroids are simply to expensive to just randomly lace supplements with them.

People don't actually buy the most effective product, they buy the best marketed in my experience. Why spend money on steroids and risking legal exposure when all you have to do is pay Kai Green a few bob to swear her uses your T-booster.

By the way, there's no such thing as a hard gainer, just a small eater. What does someone who's on juice look like exactly?

Aquarius34

Brian? wrote: »

Terrible reasoning. As pointed out, steroids are simply to expensive to just randomly lace supplements with them.

People don't actually buy the most effective product, they buy the best marketed in my experience. Why spend money on steroids and risking legal exposure when all you have to do is pay Kai Green a few bob to swear her uses your T-booster.

By the way, there's no such thing as a hard gainer, just a small eater. What does someone who's on juice look like exactly?

Eh No. I don't have to agree with you and I don't hold anything you say as a pinch of salt either. I am not here to agree with you. I don't care what you think also.

Other people do have experiences and do know things and you don't have to come on here with the attitude as if you're the moral authority with regards to everything on health and fitness.

I stand by my views and I won't back down from it. You can choose to disagree but don't try to insult me.

Aquarius34

Oisinjm wrote: »

Do you know how much steroids cost? It wouldn't be cost effective to put them in a natural testosterone booster that retail at approximately €45. This already nullifies your argument. You're friend may well be on steroids for all we know, but he 100%, unequivocally, did not get this from a legal supplement.

Also, if steroids were included in legal supplements and people weren't running cycle supports or post cycle therapy products then we'd be seeing thousands of lads around the country with gynecomastia, severely damaged livers and unable to naturally produce testosterone any more.

Oisín

I am aware, but I think you're missing the point, you don't think that steroids can be added to supplements to make their supplements better than non steroid supplements.

I mean I know we are sick of hearing it at this stage, but the horse meat scandal comes to mind, no?

I do see your point about what steroids do and all that. But if a small amount of steroids are added, then it's not going to have the same effect as a full stand alone anabolic steroid obviously... If people see results, they are going to buy it.


As for legal, come on.... This is getting a bit naive now.

ceegee

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I am aware, but I think you're missing the point, you don't think that steroids can be added to supplements to make their supplements better than non steroid supplements.

I mean I know we are sick of hearing it at this stage, but the horse meat scandal comes to mind, no?

I do see your point about what steroids do and all that. But if a small amount of steroids are added, then it's not going to have the same effect as a full stand alone anabolic steroid obviously... If people see results, they are going to buy it.


As for legal, come on.... This is getting a bit naive now.

Its actually the opposite of the horse meat scandal. Its more like finding out they snuck fillet steak into their cheap ass burgers.

From the companys point of view it makes little sense to add in expensive ingredients into the product. The chances of getting caught are too high. Theyd have to hide a big expense from their accounts, hope the plant never gets inspected, hope no customers get drug tested and no customers get side effects. The likelihood of one of these occuring is way too high imo

Aquarius34

ceegee wrote: »

Its actually the opposite of the horse meat scandal. Its more like finding out they snuck fillet steak into their cheap ass burgers.

From the companys point of view it makes little sense to add in expensive ingredients into the product. The chances of getting caught are too high. Theyd have to hide a big expense from their accounts, hope the plant never gets inspected, hope no customers get drug tested and no customers get side effects. The likelihood of one of these occuring is way too high imo

Really says you!

DL Saint

Of course there is juice in supplements. I had some fruit flavored Xtend last week and it contained Orange Juice :eek: :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I think the case is that some could have you failing a WADA drug test, but aren't "laced" with steroids. As has been mentioned already steroids are not cheap that it would be practical to throw some in with some powder.

Some people get caught for taking something they shouldn't and claim ignorance and try to blame it on a supplement they took. I remember a case where a "natural" bodybuilder in the uk was tested positive for masteron in a wada drug test. He said that there must have been a type of superdrol (methyl-mast) in the T-booster he was taking. I very much doubt it.

The fact of the matter is these young lads are getting bigger due to increased knowledge and education on training and diet. Not to mention they are starting to lift younger.

Aquarius34

God, every single thread on this forum seems to always dismiss this steroid issue. It's getting comical to me at this point.

Mellor

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Really says you!

Lol
Your whole logic has been completely highlighted as flawed, yet you still reply as if people are talking nonsense.

A typical supp lasts at least a month, even the smallest possible amount of drugs that could have an effect spread over that month, would cost more than the product sells for.

The only way it could happen was if the first batch was tainted, at a massive loss, in order to promote the product. And that's still a stretch for all the reasons above.

Aquarius34

Mellor wrote: »

Lol
Your whole logic has been completely highlighted as flawed, yet you still reply as if people are talking nonsense.
.

Again, if people want to look out through rose tinted windows that's fine doesn't mean I will just because others do. If people want to look at reality with one eye open and the other closed, that's their decision, but I won't be doing that. I stand by my view and that is that. I am not interested in this wishy washy, maybe, perhaps not and all the rest of it. The fact of the matter is, the bodybuilding industry is riddled with steroid use and it's no brainer that some supplements out there will use steroids if they didn't get cot out, the same way sports athletes will claim to be natural if they don't get cot out on taking steroids. At the end of the day, all these supplements you see on the market are there to make money and they will do whatever means necessary to make their profits and gains.

blatantrereg

I think his comments are based on a study carried out in 2007. Either that or the results of a more recent study are very similar.

2007:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/12/06/idUS247595+06-Dec-2007+PRN20071206
http://thinksteroids.com/news/dietary-supplements-contaminated-with-steroids/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2007-12-05-supplement-study_N.htm

2000:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/11/23/doping001123.html

I don't know enough about steroids to know whether people pooh-poohing the idea offhand is justified really.
They give growth hormones to cattle in the USA though - would those growth hormone not be an example of a cheap steroid then?
Would it always be ineffective cost-wise to put steroids in a supplement? Some supplements are reasonably expensive. Most supplements have little to no scientific evidence behind their efficacy, yet people spend large amounts of money on them - so some of them must do something. [In fact I remember reading a journal article around 1998 which said that creatine was the only non-steroid supplement which was proven to have a significant effect - at that time at least.]

Aquarius34

It seems to me, like the argument like if no one knows about the murder then it didn't happen. just as people wouldn't know farmers are injecting their animals with hormones and people don't know it until they get cot doing it. This is the same case for what is been discussed here. If people want to say this is not the case, fine, but I believe there will be cases where steroids have been used this way and added to some supplements out there. If they can get away with it and make a few bob I don't see what would stop them from doing it. That's my point here.

It seems I am talking to brick walls on this subject. Steroids is still a taboo subject on this forum, sigh.:rolleyes:

banquet

Aquarius34 wrote: »

It seems to me, like the argument like if no one knows about the murder then it didn't happen. just as people wouldn't know farmers are injecting their animals with hormones and people don't know it until they get cot doing it. This is the same case for what is been discussed here. If people want to say this is not the case, fine, but I believe there will be cases where steroids have been used this way and added to some supplements out there. If they can get away with it and make a few bob I don't see what would stop them from doing it. That's my point here.

It seems I am talking to brick walls on this subject. Steroids is still a taboo subject on this forum, sigh.:rolleyes:

Stop talking pure and other ****e and just address the cost issue, which has been mentioned by numerous posters. You're out of your depth and haven't a clue what you're talking about.

As to your comments about steroid use being a "taboo" on this forum. I'd wager that the posters on this forum (and the strength forum) are more realistic about PED use in all forms of elite sport than in any other forum on boards. A quick glance at the PED thread in the soccer forum a few days ago will back this up.

Gummy Panda

The only time I can imagine a steroid like substance getting into a supplement is cross contamination. I believe Gaspari had an issue before where one of their supplements was contaminate by a pro-homone produced in the same facility.

blatantrereg

Gummy Panda wrote: »

The only time I can imagine a steroid like substance getting into a supplement is cross contamination. I believe Gaspari had an issue before where one of their supplements was contaminate by a pro-homone produced in the same facility.

That sort of thing is what is being described in the study I linked I think, which might be the basis of the recent article: Trace levels which are nonetheless significant enough to make people fail drugs tests.

Oisinjm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

It seems to me, like the argument like if no one knows about the murder then it didn't happen. just as people wouldn't know farmers are injecting their animals with hormones and people don't know it until they get cot doing it. This is the same case for what is been discussed here. If people want to say this is not the case, fine, but I believe there will be cases where steroids have been used this way and added to some supplements out there. If they can get away with it and make a few bob I don't see what would stop them from doing it. That's my point here.

It seems I am talking to brick walls on this subject. Steroids is still a taboo subject on this forum, sigh.:rolleyes:

Well it seems to me, like you've just ignored every valid point raised in this thread to counter your argument and are continuing to stick your fingers in your ears and shout. You mentioned that the supplement companies will do anything to get an edge and increase profits margins, but this is the whole point. It's just not economical to put steroids in the supplements. They'd be making a massive massive loss.

You then compared it to the horse meat scandal. The difference between the two is that beef is a superior and more expensive product than horse meat. The companies could make larger profits by substituting the cheaper horse meat without anyone knowing. The opposite is the case here. You're saying that supplement companies are substituting cheap ingredients for very expensive steroids. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd also like you to address the point re: if supplements were laced with steroids, how come we're not seeing thousands of people exhibiting the side effects of taking steroids without proper post cycle therapy or cycle support? If supplements were laced with steroids surely gynecomastia would be a serious national issue, as would severe liver damage and testosterone production shut down.

Oisín

Zombienosh

This thread

Aquarius34

Oisinjm wrote: »

Well it seems to me, like you've just ignored every valid point raised in this thread to counter your argument and are continuing to stick your fingers in your ears and shout. You mentioned that the supplement companies will do anything to get an edge and increase profits margins, but this is the whole point. It's just not economical to put steroids in the supplements. They'd be making a massive massive loss.

You then compared it to the horse meat scandal. The difference between the two is that beef is a superior and more expensive product than horse meat. The companies could make larger profits by substituting the cheaper horse meat without anyone knowing. The opposite is the case here. You're saying that supplement companies are substituting cheap ingredients for very expensive steroids. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd also like you to address the point re: if supplements were laced with steroids, how come we're not seeing thousands of people exhibiting the side effects of taking steroids without proper post cycle therapy or cycle support? If supplements were laced with steroids surely gynecomastia would be a serious national issue, as would severe liver damage and testosterone production shut down.

Oisín

You change and twisted everything I said, so all I am doing is a face palm right now. I never once stated supplements were laced with steroids. You obviously don't read properly and because of that, of course you are going to have issues with the actual points I've raised.

As for all the other points, "what the......."

john_cappa

Beware there is a troll about! Dont waste your time!

TheZ

Surely a teenager is last person to need steroids. Testosterone levels at their highest and a scientific training programme would account for the big gains.

john_cappa

TheZ wrote: »

Surely a teenager is last person to need steroids. Testosterone levels at their highest and a scientific training programme would account for the big gains.

Theoretically yes. Good training and nutrition will account for gains in comparison with someone who is not training/eating. However when compared to people who are training/eating correctly then you are just keeping pace rather than getting ahead.

Even when your natural test is at its highest AAS will increase this by many multiples! 500%+ easily.

At the end of the day its comes down to choices. Each make their own.

cc87

http://www.informed-sport.com/

This crowd test food products for any substances that might cause a positive drug test

brownlad

My dad sent me this via email lol, he is concerned about my supplement use. I lol'd. i began lifting when I was 14, that and my bbc genetics resulted in me being 200lbs of muscle steel and sex appeal at 18 and winning a senior cup. since , dad has being nuts about my supp use, he still is its really funny tbh