Calf Problems

JCB1

We've got 7 cows calved so far of a small suckler herd (<30). Of the 7, 3 of the calfs were very weak when born and had difficult standing. Back legs in particular seem very weak. After a few days of lifting them up to the cow to drink (back breaking work), they get strong enough to stand on their own and drink but still seem weak.
The cows are in good condition and are all cows that have had a number of calves without any problem, the bull is the same also for the last few years. Cows all get the Agri LLyod Pre Calver Mineral/Thriver dose at the recommended period before calving.

The calves in general are poor quality and nothing much to look at but you often see a calf that is not much to look at when born but comes good by summer so that isn't my main concern right now.

BVD tests posted this morning so waiting anxiously for the results.

Any ideas on what this could be ?
If BVD test come back negative - are there any other tests that I can do ?
I'm half thinking that maybe the silage quality isn't as good as it could be due to the bad year last year, but the pit was cut and made dry (rare I know) in early June. Silage quality seems good in that it smells ok and is not heating. Cows are on Slats since late October.
It does sound as if they are premature but we had the cows scanned and the dates are lining up in general with what the Scanning guy estimated, and he is usually pretty close.

I know that you will advise to ask my vet but he is not that good at this kind of thing, excellent vet every other way but 'troubleshooting' isn't his strong point.

weatherbyfoxer

you state about giving the cows a agri loyd mineral dose...was this a once off thing or have the cows minerals continuly 6-8 weeks pre calving?

whelan1

have you had the vet out. are the cows cleaning ok?

1chippy

get the bloods sent away on each of the calves. should at least rule out some of the problems.

caseman

Sounds like mineral problems. I'd feed mineral dust an top of silage and see if it helps.

Blue Holland

JCB1 wrote: »

We've got 7 cows calved so far of a small suckler herd (<30). Of the 7, 3 of the calfs were very weak when born and had difficult standing. Back legs in particular seem very weak. After a few days of lifting them up to the cow to drink (back breaking work), they get strong enough to stand on their own and drink but still seem weak.
The cows are in good condition and are all cows that have had a number of calves without any problem, the bull is the same also for the last few years. Cows all get the Agri LLyod Pre Calver Mineral/Thriver dose at the recommended period before calving.

The calves in general are poor quality and nothing much to look at but you often see a calf that is not much to look at when born but comes good by summer so that isn't my main concern right now.

BVD tests posted this morning so waiting anxiously for the results.

Any ideas on what this could be ?
If BVD test come back negative - are there any other tests that I can do ?
I'm half thinking that maybe the silage quality isn't as good as it could be due to the bad year last year, but the pit was cut and made dry (rare I know) in early June. Silage quality seems good in that it smells ok and is not heating. Cows are on Slats since late October.
It does sound as if they are premature but we had the cows scanned and the dates are lining up in general with what the Scanning guy estimated, and he is usually pretty close.

I know that you will advise to ask my vet but he is not that good at this kind of thing, excellent vet every other way but 'troubleshooting' isn't his strong point.

Did cows have normal calvings any of them retain after birth? Sounds like cows are lacking in something. Have you ever had selenium problems.

JCB1

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

you state about giving the cows a agri loyd mineral dose...was this a once off thing or have the cows minerals continuly 6-8 weeks pre calving?

It was a one off dose, we stopped giving the Pre Calver minerals a few years back when we started giving the Agri Llyod dose. Looks like that was mistake number 1.

JCB1

whelan1 wrote: »

have you had the vet out. are the cows cleaning ok?

Haven't had the vet out - but he is not the best on this kind of situation, sadly not a great troubleshooter... Now that you say it the cows are slow to clean - what can that indicate ?

poor farmer

Ye, your cows are in a long time I would suspect a mineral deficiency , Possibly selenium .As a cheap treatment I would get a couple of bags of pre-calver and sprinkle it on the silage at the recommended rate .
I wouldn't have much faith in a once off mineral drench.

JCB1

1chippy wrote: »

get the bloods sent away on each of the calves. should at least rule out some of the problems.

Can you recommend a lab and what should I be asking that they check for ?
Can I send the bloods myself or does it need to be a vet ?

JCB1

poor farmer wrote: »

Ye your cows are in a long time I would suspect a mineral deficiency , Possibly selenium .As a cheap treatment I would get a couple of bags of pre-calver and sprinkle it on the silage at the recommended rate .
I wouldn't have much faith in a once off mineral drench.

Thanks, Good advice I think - I'm going for the pre-calver minerals in the morning.

yellow50HX

2cc of barium selenate to each calf when they are born

whelan1

if you are getting minerals it might be no harm to get iodine as well. i get lugols(i think) iodine from vets and put 1 ml per cow per day in drinker. this helps greatly in reducing weak calves

weatherbyfoxer

JCB1 wrote: »

Thanks, Good advice I think - I'm going for the pre-calver minerals in the morning.

id reccommend life-line pre calver minerals im using their lick buckets for 4 years now and find them great,you can also get it in powder form in bag to sprinkle on silage

JCB1

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

id reccommend life-line pre calver minerals im using their lick buckets for 4 years now and find them great,you can also get it in powder form in bag to sprinkle on silage

Is the powder form better than the lick buckets ?
We used to use the powder.

JCB1

Thanks to all for all of the advice, the past few days have had me evaluating whether to continue with sucklers or not as I'm a part time farmer and just dont have the time to dedicate to the cows when thing are going badly.

whelan1

we normally use the lifeline buckets for the sucklers. we got 6 buckets of a different make and the cows wolfed them down. reckon there was alot of molasses in them.Back to usibg lifeline buckets again now

1chippy

Get the vet to take the bloods and send them away. I lost a lot of animals last year and found this forum brilliant for help but for your own peace of mind it is aswell to try and get as much accurate advice while you still have the time before others are born and may not get the opportunity to rectify whatever the problem. it does sound like a mineral deficiancy but is it worth taking a gamble on the other twenty odd calves.

weatherbyfoxer

JCB1 wrote: »

Thanks to all for all of the advice, the past few days have had me evaluating whether to continue with sucklers or not as I'm a part time farmer and just dont have the time to dedicate to the cows when thing are going badly.

i use lick buckets as i feed my cow with bales in ring feeders but if your feeding silage at a feed barrier sprinkling minrels would mean that all cows are getting minerals.some cows might not use the licks im told but they seem to work well for me

if you thinking of getting out think hard about it because it would be a costly thing if you decide to get back in in the future.seen it happen to friends a few years ago.they gave up the sucklers and are now trying to buy dairy x heifer calves to rear for cows as they havent the capital to buy into herds of cow

Blue Holland

I'd def get bloods done, vet will know where to send them, but could take week to ten days get results back, I'd give all cows close to calving vitesel, it's selenium injection. If it is selenium chances are you will lose calves if not treated quickly. Lost up to 30% of calves with it bout thirty years ago.

JCB1

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

i use lick buckets as i feed my cow with bales in ring feeders but if your feeding silage at a feed barrier sprinkling minrels would mean that all cows are getting minerals.some cows might not use the licks im told but they seem to work well for me

if you thinking of getting out think hard about it because it would be a costly thing if you decide to get back in in the future.seen it happen to friends a few years ago.they gave up the sucklers and are now trying to buy dairy x heifer calves to rear for cows as they havent the capital to buy into herds of cow

Yes silage is fed at a barrier so I'll go with the powder.

Its probably a knee jerk reaction thinking about getting out as I'd prefer not to, but you know how it is when things dont run smoothly. I agree, I know guys that got out and spend a small fortune buying back in.

JCB1

mf240 wrote: »

Be prepared for them to Hoover up the first few buckets but they should settle down then.

Is it safe to give them a little extra for the first few weeks - "to make up for lost time" or should I stick with the recommended dosage ?

mf240

JCB1 wrote: »

Is it safe to give them a little extra for the first few weeks - "to make up for lost time" or should I stick with the recommended dosage ?

I feed bag minerals ad lib but I would be afraid to advise anybody else to do so.

Cowmad

We had the same problem with our calves hard to get them to drink. And cows holding cleanings and taking time calving.

Was talking to the neighbour about the problems. He said try foradyne and we did our problems disappeared after about a week.

greysides

If you wish to have diagnostic bloods taken.... for directed prevention measures in future.... have bloods taken BEFORE supplementing with minerals.

rancher

JCB1 wrote: »

We've got 7 cows calved so far of a small suckler herd (<30). Of the 7, 3 of the calfs were very weak when born and had difficult standing. Back legs in particular seem very weak. After a few days of lifting them up to the cow to drink (back breaking work), they get strong enough to stand on their own and drink but still seem weak.
The cows are in good condition and are all cows that have had a number of calves without any problem, the bull is the same also for the last few years. Cows all get the Agri LLyod Pre Calver Mineral/Thriver dose at the recommended period before calving.

The calves in general are poor quality and nothing much to look at but you often see a calf that is not much to look at when born but comes good by summer so that isn't my main concern right now.

BVD tests posted this morning so waiting anxiously for the results.

Any ideas on what this could be ?
If BVD test come back negative - are there any other tests that I can do ?
I'm half thinking that maybe the silage quality isn't as good as it could be due to the bad year last year, but the pit was cut and made dry (rare I know) in early June. Silage quality seems good in that it smells ok and is not heating. Cows are on Slats since late October.
It does sound as if they are premature but we had the cows scanned and the dates are lining up in general with what the Scanning guy estimated, and he is usually pretty close.

I know that you will advise to ask my vet but he is not that good at this kind of thing, excellent vet every other way but 'troubleshooting' isn't his strong point.

Sounds very like iodine. always use bag minerals, there is good ones out there and they always say on the bag how much to use, there have been trials done with buckets and it showed that some got twice too much and 20% of the batch didn't touch them at all but on average they had all got enough,
If you put one foot in boiling water and one foot in ice I would say on average you're comfortable,!!!!!!!!
Get a good quality mineral and feed it on the silage

Good loser

rancher wrote: »

Sounds very like iodine. always use bag minerals, there is good ones out there and they always say on the bag how much to use, there have been trials done with buckets and it showed that some got twice too much and 20% of the batch didn't touch them at all but on average they had all got enough,
If you put one foot in boiling water and one foot in ice I would say on average you're comfortable,!!!!!!!!
Get a good quality mineral and feed it on the silage

Is iodine put in the water periodically?

whelan1

Good loser wrote: »

Is iodine put in the water periodically?

i put 1ml of iodine per dry cow in drinker each day, will get the name of the iodine later, its not the same as the iodine you put on the navel, its a different form of it

yellow50HX

we give them precalver minerals in powder form for a few weeks before calving. spreead it out along the silage at the barrier.

pakalasa

What breed are the calves? Charolais can be slow to get up compared to say Limousins. They are bigger boned and heavier.
I would agree on the minerals. 100g per head, per day for 6 weeks before calving. I use the bagged pre-calver spread on the silage.
If this year is the first year you had problems, may be down to last years wet summer. It it's happening every year, the land me be defficient in something.

ceannfort

If calves are slow an weak I would give minerals and 1kg of a good quality dairy nut to the cows 4 to 6 weeks precalving.

JCB1

A lot of good advice on here, I got a vets advice today - it matched all of the advice from last night.

His thoughts were to give all cows an Allsure Bolus immediately (did that today) and continue with pre-calver minerals spread on the feed. It will take 10-14 days for the minerals to take effect so lets wait and hope.
If there still are problems in 2 weeks he is to return to take blood samples but try the mineral route first.

Thanks again.

JCB1

So to follow up... We gave the Allsure bolus and pre-calver as directed each day. The cows have been a little slow to calve since - we've only had 4 calves in the last month but the good news is all was well, calves were good and strong, drank milk without help and the cows cleaned within a few hours. Thanks to all who offered advice and sent pm's. Lesson well learnt, we wont be making that mistake again.