what rally car is faster

JAMES VTI S

point to point what is faster WRC or group B

afatbollix

Believe it or not over a rally stage a WRC car is now quicker.

They have used the same stages in Finland and WRC cars hold the records these days.

Back in GrB days it was all about sticking a huge engine in it where as these days aero and trick diffs mean they are quicker.

JAMES VTI S

the B had only 50 bhp more ?

YbFocus

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

the B had only 50 bhp more ?

No man current cars have 300bhp, group B were 500bhp plus.
Yeah the wrc's are quicker but I'd still love to see the group B

JAMES VTI S

YbFocus wrote: »

No man current cars have 300bhp, group B were 500bhp plus.
Yeah the wrc's are quicker but I'd still love to see the group B

B sound 60 times faster

SouperComputer

Depends on where point A and point B are, and what tyres on on each car. I'm sure you could get comparative figures from rallycross. What a modern WRC lacks in peak power department, it gains back in massive torque delivered across a flat curve, not to mention immensely complex electronic drive control systems that help it all stay under control.

JAMES VTI S

Would love to see a race between the too

De Hipster

group B

Modern engineering, lightweight panels and chasis weight ratios alone should make a considerable difference in the favour of WRC.

Rascasse

I'd imagine it would depend on the course. Tight and twisty then the WRC would probably win. Open course on tarmac then its likely the Group B. I was at Goodwood years ago when Michelle Mouton drove a Group B quattro and it was v. quick. I wonder if somewhere has times from Goodwood to compare the two (obviously its a very short course and on tarmac).

JAMES VTI S

i wonder what there has never been a race of the two

Tea 1000

De Hipster wrote: »

Modern engineering, lightweight panels and chasis weight ratios alone should make a considerable difference in the favour of WRC.

I think WRC cars are 1100kgs aren't they? Some group B's were around 900kgs and over 500bhp.
I'd say it depends on what stage they're on to be honest. WRC would certainly be quicker on some, the gear change and linear power delivery would be massive as well as the grip. Even modern tyres help. But some of the very last Group B cars built were phenomenal, and these days folk who run them obviously don't want to write them off, so you'll never see them flat out.
But it'd be hard to see the likes of Toivenan flat out in a Delta on a long stage with some long straights being slower than the likes of Hirvonen in a Ford WRC on the same stage.

JAMES VTI S

is there any rally stage to compair times

wobbles

group B

Really only some of the stages in Finland. You cant really look at tarmac rallys as the roads would have been widened/resurfaced etc since the grp B days.

Simple answer is WRCs are faster in the corners, Grp B on the straights.

afatbollix

Rascasse wrote: »

I'd imagine it would depend on the course. Tight and twisty then the WRC would probably win. Open course on tarmac then its likely the Group B. I was at Goodwood years ago when Michelle Mouton drove a Group B quattro and it was v. quick. I wonder if somewhere has times from Goodwood to compare the two (obviously its a very short course and on tarmac).

Loab has the record on the rally stage when he came over a few years ago. Meeke was using the C4 the same year and was .1 of a second slower than Loab.

Last year there was a Quatro at goodwood with Hannu Mikkola and the WRCs, S2000s and Evos where beating it.

But it was insured for 2 million and only allowed one run per day and was washed straight away after the run. So I dont think he was really pushing it

Paddy@CIRL

group B

I don't think this is even debatable, clearly a modern WRC car is much, much faster. Group B certainly had a lot more flair and style but the modern WRC cars are just so clinical and precise.

barney 20v

group B

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

I don't think this is even debatable, clearly a modern WRC car is much, much faster. Group B certainly had a lot more flair and style but the modern WRC cars are just so clinical and precise.

By the final years of the proper GRP A, the cars were quicker through classic stages than the GRP B monsters...current GRP N cars with anti lag + trick diffs are as quick as late GRP A machines, ie 555 impreza etc etc .
the 206 wrc car was quicker in its first year over classic stages ie Col de tourini than the 205 group b car ever was..
Traction vs action .....
wrc wins on pace but personally you can shove both categories up ya Swiss roll ! Give me a mk 2 escort with bda any day!

JAMES VTI S

raw vs tech

ianobrien

OP you need to define what's in between the two points....

If it's a straight line, the later Group B's would win as they were pushing crazy power at the end of '86 (RS200 evo was 650hp plus, '87 quattro prototype was rumoured to be almost 1000hp!)

If there is a bend or two, the WRC would win. Even the last of the Group A's and the first of the WRC's were beating stage times of the WRC's on roads that haven't changed (Col do Turini, Ouninpohja, Castletown, etc). Put the two on a Tarmac stage, the gap would be even wider due to the lack of trick diffs in the Group B's.

As an aside, you do know that Ouninpohja has been declared a national monument in Finland. This means that they can't change the road surface, alter any cambers/corners and can't widen the road.....

Also, the latest Group N/R5's are setting stage times that's beating the early WRC's. That's the level of advancement in technology in chassis/transmissions

JAMES VTI S

in a season lets just say (for fun) what would be faster

wobbles

group B

Over a season, without a doubt, a WRC for reliability alone. Group Bs were always breaking parts that no longer are an issue. Through advancement in technology parts are stronger, and Grp Bs were pushing the boundaries of what was possible at the time, pushing parts beyond what they should have been doing. WRCs on the other hand are restricted so parts are not under the same pressure.

If you are still looking at speed alone over a season, id still go WRC. You just cant beat advances in technology

JAMES VTI S

amazing how technology can beat 1000bhp

wobbles

group B

Its all about about how the 300bhp v 1000bhp is put through the patches of rubber in contact with the road

barney 20v

group B

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

amazing how technology can beat 1000bhp

What group b car do you think had 100 bhp??

SouperComputer

Peak HP ≠ winning races.

barney 20v

group B

SouperComputer wrote: »

Peak HP ≠ winning races.

Horsepower sells cars....torque wins races...;)