Bunker Relief

Wombatman

When a bunker is GUR or out of play, do you get relief from point of entry or where the ball lies?

Cairn

Wombatman wrote: »

When a bunker is GUR or out of play, do you get relief from point of entry or where the ball lies?

As I understand it when a bunker is GUR it loses its status as a hazard and is treated as normal GUR and so relief from where ball lies, one club lenght from nearest point of relief not nearer the hole, that point being where you can take an unimpeded swing with your intended club.

Golfgraffix

same question came up a game last week during a game. The guy i was playing with took relief from a bunker with water in it, I was surprised as it was just casual water and as such he had no free drop, even though the bunker was completely full with water.

I innocently asked him was it marked as GUR or out of play and he said no, I mentioned that he could drop but under a penalty stroke, he just went off on one saying that there was nowhere to drop in the bunker and he was taking a free drop. I was a guest of a friend in the comp and was not marking his card so i just let him at it, I think he had a good score too!!

I remember this came up quite often at last years Open, so I knew I was right.

Benicetomonty

Such a strange rule because under rule 28 (unplayable lie), his only option was to take stroke and distance penalty and play again from where he hit his shot into the bunker. But under rule 25-1b(ii)(b) (abnormal ground conditions), he's allowed to just drop the ball outside the bunker, once he keeps it between him and the hole.

Either way, unless you take relief inside the sand, you're liable for a penalty shot.

onlyfinewine

It's amazing that this well known rule is flaunted so often, his only free relief was of course in the most shallow part of the water in the bunker no nearer the hole. Dropping outside the bunker was a shot penalty. I honestly don't know what I would have done in the same circumstances but I'm pretty sure I would not have been as relaxed as you were and would have said something after the round finished and before the cards were returned.

Peterdalkey

In such circumstances, the club should have been more proactive, we have had enough rain experience over the past few months. All they had to do was declare flooded bunkers GUR for the competition....can be done with a simple notice on the first tee. If only few bunkers are affected, GUR signs could be placed at them.
Failing that, the rules is the rules and not everybody knows the rules!! which leads to unecessary grief that could easily have been avoided.


cheers

peter

L.O.F.T

Peterdalkey wrote: »

In such circumstances, the club should have been more proactive, we have had enough rain experience over the past few months. All they had to do was declare flooded bunkers GUR for the competition....can be done with a simple notice on the first tee. If only few bunkers are affected, GUR signs could be placed at them.
Failing that, the rules is the rules and not everybody knows the rules!! which leads to unecessary grief that could easily have been avoided.


cheers

peter

Good post Peter, the rule is below to back up your point and one that all here should be aware of in these conditions this time of year.

In terms of flooded bunkers, the Committee may not make a general Local Rule providing that all flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b. However, in conditions of extreme wetness, where certain specific bunkers are completely flooded prior to the competition commencing and there is no possibility of the bunkers drying up during the competition, the Committee may introduce a Local Rule providing that these bunkers are deemed to be ground under repair. This allows for relief to be taken without penalty in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i). The following wording for such a Local Rule is recommended:

“The flooded bunker on [insert location of bunker; e.g. left of 5th green] is ground under repair. If a player’s ball lies in that bunker or if that bunker interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing and the player wishes to take relief, he must take relief outside the bunker, without penalty, in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i). All other bunkers on the course, regardless of whether they contain water, maintain their status as hazards and the Rules apply accordingly.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.”

source: http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Guidance-on-Running-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=2&section=2

Peterdalkey

In my club, when many bunkers and we have well over 100, are flooded, they are all deemed out of play. As Winter Rules are always in force on such occasions, non are counting competitions in any event.

Cheers

Peter

ProV

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Such a strange rule because under rule 28 (unplayable lie), his only option was to take stroke and distance penalty and play again from where he hit his shot into the bunker. But under rule 25-1b(ii)(b) (abnormal ground conditions), he's allowed to just drop the ball outside the bunker, once he keeps it between him and the hole.

Post Retracted

SnowDrifts

ProV wrote: »

you do not have to keep the Bunker in between you and the hole, It is one club length from the nearest point of relief ( not nearer the hole ), so in certain circumstances this may be to the side of a bunker.

No, that is only when the bunker is GUR. When the bunker is flooded, your only choice is to take a free drop inside the bunker to the least flooded area not nearer the hole. The bunker maintains its' hazard status.

You can drop outside the bunker keeping the flag and where the ball lay in the bunker in a straight line and go as far back as you want under penalty of one stroke.

Or, of course, you can go back and under stroke and distance penalty, reply the shot from your original position before you hit it into the sand.

GreeBo

can you have abnormal ground conditions in a bunker that's in play though?

ProV

SnowDrifts wrote: »

No, that is only when the bunker is GUR. When the bunker is flooded, your only choice is to take a free drop inside the bunker to the least flooded area not nearer the hole. The bunker maintains its' hazard status.

You can drop outside the bunker keeping the flag and where the ball lay in the bunker in a straight line and go as far back as you want under penalty of one stroke.

Or, of course, you can go back and under stroke and distance penalty, reply the shot from your original position before you hit it into the sand.

Sorry, Yes I was thinking of when the Bunker is deemed GUR, well spotted Snow

ProV

GreeBo wrote: »

can you have abnormal ground conditions in a bunker that's in play though?

Yes ... An abnormal Ground condition in a in-play Bunker could be a large puddle for example.

stockdam

No you cannot relieve yourself in a bunker.........too open.......please relieve yourself behind a bush.

SnowDrifts

GreeBo wrote: »

can you have abnormal ground conditions in a bunker that's in play though?

Yeah, under rule 25-1b(ii). I've seen it in action before when the drainage pipe and gravel were exposed in the center of a bunker and a guy's ball finished up resting against the pipe. I'm sure had the greenkeepers seen it, it would have been fixed or declared GUR but because they hadn't, relief was taken under the above.

onlyfinewine

stockdam wrote: »

No you cannot relieve yourself in a bunker.........too open.......please relieve yourself behind a bush.

Yes, with the bunker flooded you would only be adding to the problem.

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

can you have abnormal ground conditions in a bunker that's in play though?

I believe the following is a clear guide to the bunker situation.

Rules of Golf: Relief from Bunkers
September 8th, 2011 / Frank Gal

Few golfers want to see their ball land in a bunker.

But when it does they need to know the rules of playing out of that hazard. Knowing the rules can save a golfer unnecessary penalty strokes.

Rules of Golf: Relief from Bunkers Rules of Golf: Relief from Bunkers

The definition of a bunker tells us that a bunker is a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground, often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like.

Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker.

A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker.

The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards.

Because a bunker is a hazard, the Rules for playing from a bunker are similar to the Rules for playing from a water hazard.

The main differences are encountered when taking relief from immovable obstructions, abnormal ground conditions and under the unplayable ball Rule (Rule 28).
Movable Obstructions: Rule 24-1

A movable obstruction can be removed from any part of the course, including a bunker or water hazard.

Movable obstructions are artificial objects such as rakes or drink cans which can be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage.

If you were to remove a movable obstruction, say a rake, lying near your ball in a bunker and the ball moves it must be replaced, and there is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the rake.

Accidentally kicking the ball with your foot is not considered to be directly attributable.

If your ball lies in or on a movable obstruction in a bunker, say a plastic bag, you may lift the ball and remove the plastic bag.

You must then drop the ball as near as possible to the spot directly under where the ball lay in or on the plastic bag, no nearer the hole.
Immovable Obstructions: Rule 24-2

Immovable obstructions are artificial objects such as pipes, drainage grates or wooden steps which cannot be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage.

If you have interference (as defined in Rule 24-2a) from an immovable obstruction, say a pipe, in a bunker, you have two options if you decide to take relief under the immovable obstruction Rule – see Rule 24-2b (ii):

You may drop the ball in the bunker, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief, or

You may drop the ball outside the bunker, under penalty of one stroke, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.
Abnormal Ground Conditions: Rule 25-1

An “abnormal ground condition” is any casual water, ground under repair or hole, cast or runway on the course made by a burrowing animal, a reptile or a bird.

If you elect (or are required) to take relief from an abnormal ground condition, such as casual water, in a bunker, you have the same options listed above under the Immovable Obstruction Rule; i.e. you may drop the ball in the bunker without penalty or drop the ball outside the bunker under penalty of one stroke.

However, there are times when full relief may not be available from casual water in a bunker.

The bunker may be flooded to the extent that there is nowhere in the bunker that the ball can be dropped no nearer the hole without interference from the casual water.

In these circumstances, you may drop the ball without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the casual water.

There are two occasions when relief from GUR or casual water in a bunker may be taken outside the bunker without penalty:

When the bunker is known to be flooded before the competition starts and the committee deems the bunker to be GUR and through the green (Decision 33-8/27), and

When the bunker is being renovated and the committee defines the entire bunker as “through the green” (Decision 25/13).

In all other cases, relief by dropping outside the bunker is under penalty of one stroke.
Unplayable Ball: Rule 28

If your ball lies in a bunker and you declare it unplayable, you have three relief options:

Play a ball as near as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played; or

Drop a ball in the bunker behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

Drop a ball in the bunker within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

Note that options b) and c) require that the ball be dropped in the bunker. Note also that option a) is the only option which might allow you to drop outside the bunker under this Rule.